LymeNet Home LymeNet Home Page LymeNet Flash Discussion LymeNet Support Group Database LymeNet Literature Library LymeNet Legal Resources LymeNet Medical & Scientific Abstract Database LymeNet Newsletter Home Page LymeNet Recommended Books LymeNet Tick Pictures Search The LymeNet Site LymeNet Links LymeNet Frequently Asked Questions About The Lyme Disease Network LymeNet Menu

LymeNet on Facebook

LymeNet on Twitter




The Lyme Disease Network receives a commission from Amazon.com for each purchase originating from this site.

When purchasing from Amazon.com, please
click here first.

Thank you.

LymeNet Flash Discussion
Dedicated to the Bachmann Family

LymeNet needs your help:
LymeNet 2020 fund drive


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations.

LymeNet Flash Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Chemical Toxicity = Persistant Infections ?

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: Chemical Toxicity = Persistant Infections ?
Ruth Ruth
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 11059

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ruth Ruth     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I recently came accross this quote from Dr. L.C.:
quote:
I guess the most important thing we've learned since the pilot study is that if you don't continue to work on getting the physical toxins out of the body, the few remaining microbes that can survive the aggressive therapy with herbals or pharmaceuticals, or whatever is used, those surviving microbes will usually regrow and form a completely new population of Lyme-related microbes in the body because of the toxins stimulating their regrowth. (article)
And then this intriguing quote from Dr. K:
quote:
Most antibiotics are very profound and effective heavy metal chelators. But this is not what they're known for. (notes in pdf file)
The puzzle that has been on my mind the past few days is why Dr. K treats mercury toxicity, Dr. L.C. uses herbal detox and anti-microbials, and the MP uses antibiotics ... all with some level of effectiveness.

How come three seemingly different approaches are all getting people well?

Could it be that mercury detox is the hidden (not so secret) ingredient?

Ok, so I'm a newbie with a little light bulb going off over my head... just never read the part about the antibiotics being heavy metal chelators before.

--------------------
When I lost my grip on Faith in the maze of illness,
Hope gently clasped my hand and led on.

RuthRuth

Posts: 478 | From California | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ruth Ruth
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 11059

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ruth Ruth     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Which reminds me of a phone conversation I had yesterday with someone who told me that bacteria convert mercury into a form that is more toxic.

What kind of bacteria? What forms are more toxic?

Are some kinds of antibiotics killing the kinds of bacteria that do these conversions?

I feel so clueless again.

--------------------
When I lost my grip on Faith in the maze of illness,
Hope gently clasped my hand and led on.

RuthRuth

Posts: 478 | From California | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259

Icon 1 posted      Profile for GiGi         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
We live in an environment that is toxic, more so every day. We have toxins put into our mouth and we have yet to say "no" to that. We think root canals are going to save that smile.

We are making a big effort to clean the environment of microbes which we now start to think are endangering our existence. My neighbor goes around spraying the beautiful yellow blossoms of dandilions! (He ought to eat them, it might save him from an early death of the spray he is inhaling!) The run-off from the lawns and gardens goes into the nearby pond signaling the microbes to enter this war and "multiply." They are in survival mode. I am not so sure about us. They manage to enter our body easily. They are intelligent and move exactly into the body compartments that are least vulnerable to them - into the most toxic areas because of reduced blood/oxygen supply that would do them in in a hurry. They are anaerobes - most of them do not need oxygen as we do to live. They love a toxic mouth, contaminated body terrain semi-destroyed by mercury and other toxins, and they flourish.

Our body starts to be burdened not only by the damage the environmental toxins and the heavy metals are doing -- , now on top of that we get the microbes -- they also poo and pee and have a life cycle to contaminate us even more.

That's when our body in its own defense, to safe itself, starts to create fungi to envelop the invading microbes. Our body wants to survive (cholesterol for the same purpose). But the result is negative: the fungi also poo and pee, live and die, and create even more of a toxic surrounding in our body compartments, our organs, our bones and ligaments; we feel even more tired and sick.

If you want to find a cure, get rid of the major problemcauser - the heavy metals, the chemicals, the xenobiotics.

The antibiotics act as a chelator as Dr. K. says, because the microbes share their quarters in and around the cells that are most metal toxic. When the abx or other killing modality finally get to that area and kill some of the microbes, the mercury is being released with the die-off into the body ------------------you call it a herxheimer. Yes, maybe a herx, but a herx created not only by the dead critters and their neurotoxins, but also by the neurotoxins, heavy metals, that our body is now trying to wrap up again to protect itself. More fungi.

It is an ongoing merry-go-round unless you find a way to get the heavy metals out of the body as quickly as possible.

With that same die-off caused by antibiotics or herbals, whatever, comes another surprise: the viruses. They are co-inhabitors with the heavy metals, the chemicals, the microorganisms (Lyme, etc.), the body's protective defense (fungi) --- they all were one happy family living and slowly killing us cell by cell by cell. The viruses are now flaring --- ever wonder about those herpes outbreaks, the shingles, etc. Got to go after them now.

Want to add in the mold too? Want to add in the parasites as they are being disturbed by the abx or herbals. They also share the body compartment - even in the brain, not necessarily only the gut; several pounds of them.

Dear friends, a herxheimer is not simply a few dead borrelia or babesia or bartonella.

Treatment done right -- is causing an exodus that one will remember. But it doesn't need to go on for ten years of abx as some of you have been trying to make some of us believe.

Dr.LC and Dr.K do not differ at all in their basic approach. Both use all modalities, including abx. But neither of them expects abx to cure a Lyme patient.

There is a saying in German which I always look for and wished there to be one like it in English:
when you watch the organist in church, to get the full enjoyment of all an organ can put out, the organist "pulls on all registers". You need to treat everything, every critter, every toxin I mentioned above. With ART, which both Dr. K. and Dr. LC do, the sequence of what should be done when, is answered by the patient body, thereby avoiding some pitfalls. Let me tell you, they happen sometimes anyway - I had a few -

But get rid of the metals. If you are still not well and have tried chelation, believe me that you are not heavy metal free yet. We know today that the sulfa residuals from sulfa drugs (antibiotics and other meds containing sulfa, from animal meats treated with abx, etc. etc. that end up in our body) are in the way of effective heavy metal detox. The sulfa has to be cleared out first.

There are a few more items that have to be addressed and cleared before effective heavy metal detox can happen. Once you start believing it.

Take care.


The following article was written and published by Dr. K. in the mid-nineties. Loooooong time ago. Every word of it is still true.

Neuraltherapy.com/articles.asp

Heavy Metals and Chronic Diseases
by Dr. Dietrich Klinghardt, M.D., PhD


To be presented at the Annual Enderlein Conference in Scottsdale, Arizona, Feb.2000

In the late phase of the Roman Empire it was considered a privilege of the reigning aristocracy to drink out of lead cups and many of the water lines in the city of Rome were made out of lead pipes. It took several hundred years before the physicians of their time established the link between mental illness - affecting mostly the aristocracy - and the contamination of the drinking water with lead. In the 1700s the use of mercury for the treatment of both acute and chronic infections gained favor and again, it took decades before the neurotoxic and immunosuppressive effects of mercury were well documented within the medical community. In the time of Mozart, who himself died of mercury toxicity during a course of treatment for syphilis, any pathologist in Vienna was familiar with the severe grayish discoloration of organs in those who died from mercury toxicity and other organ related destructive changes caused by mercury.


In the case of mercury the therapeutic dilemma is most clear: mercury can be used to treat infections but - not unlike chemotherapy - also causes a different type of illness itself and may kill the patient. The same is true for most metals: small doses may have a therapeutic effect in a short term, life saving direction, but may also cause their own illness. Most metals have a very narrow therapeutic margin before their neurotoxic, in some cases carcinogenic effect, outweighs the benefits. Toxic metals may be fungicidal and bactericidal, maybe even virucidal, but many foreign invaders have the ability to adapt over time to a toxic metal environment in a way, that stuns scientists and certainly outpaces the ability of the cells of a higher organism - like ours - to adapt in a similar way.

So in the long run, the situation looks different: the cells of the body are harmed by toxic metals whereas the invading microorganisms can often thrive in a heavy metal environment. Research by Ludwig, Voll and others in Germany, by Omura and myself here in the US, showed that microorganisms tend to set up their housekeeping in those body compartments, that have the highest pollution with toxic metals. The body's own immune cells are incapacitated in those areas whereas the microorganisms multiply and thrive in an undisturbed way. The teeth, jawbone, Peyers patches in the gutwall, the groundsystem (connective tissue) and the autonomic ganglia are common sites of metal storage - where microorganisms thrive. Furthermore, those body areas also are vasoconstricted and hypoperfused (by blood, nutrients and oxygen), which fosters the growth of anaerobic germs, fungi and viruses.

The list of symptoms of mercury toxicity alone, published by DAMS (dental amalgam support group), includes virtually any illness known to humankind: chronic fatigue, depression and joint pains are the most common.

To keep it simple: mercury alone can mimic or cause any illness currently known - or contribute to it.

Modern Medicine has taken a giant leap in the last few years through the discovery and use of the PCR test (polymerase chain reaction). Virtually any illness looked at seems to be caused or contributed to by a chronic infection. A study performed by the VA administration (and published in JADA, April 1998) on 10 000 US veterans showed that most coronary heart disease really started as an endothelial infection, in most cases caused by microorganisms from the mouth. Another study showed that close to 70 % of all TMJ syndromes in women are caused or contributed to by chlamydia trachomatis. Childhood diabetes is often caused by either a cytomegaly or influenza virus infection. And on and on.....

Has Guenther Enderlein not basically found the same truth over 60 years ago? What took so long? Like Bechamp and others he found that infections cannot thrive in the body, unless the milieu is changed in the first place. Rather then looking at the pH, osmolality and the other factors (today also jokingly called the "BTA factors" - from an instrumentation available in the US called "Bio-terrain assessment", which is really a modernization of an instrument developed by French researcher and hydrologist Vincent), I suggest diagnosing and treating toxic metal residues in the body along with appropriate treatment of the microorganisms. As long as compartmentalized toxic metals are present in the body, microorganisms have a fortress that cannot be conquered by antibiotics, Enderlein remedies, ozone therapy, UV light therapy and others.


To diagnose metal deposits in the different body compartments on a living patient is not easy (see my article in Explore: Vol??, 1997), since most "scientific"tests are based on grinding up tissue and then examining it with a microscope, spectroscopy or other laboratory based procedures. Most elegant, suitable and easy to learn is Dr.Yoshiaki Omura's resonance phenomenon between identical substances : both his bi-digital O-ring test or ART (autonomic response testing) are extensions of a regular physical exam, that can be done without any instrument. It is a very accurate diagnostic tool and makes it possible to not only diagnose where in the body which metal is stored but also helps to predict which metal detoxifying agent is most suitable to remove the toxic metal from that particular body region.

The metals found most commonly are : mercury, lead, aluminum and cadmium.

Amongst the detoxifying-agents most commonly used are the following: DMPS, DMSA, Captomer, D-Penicillamine, I.V.Vit.C, I.V.Glutathione, Pleo-Chelate, DL-Methionine (Redoxal), branched chain amino acids, Chlorella Pyreneidosa, Chitosan, activated charcoal, cilantro and yellow dock. Non biochemical approaches have been developed by myself and include electromobilization (using the Electro-Bloc), mercury vapor lamp mobilization and others.

So the approach to treating illness in a way, that acknowledges these observations, has to include the following:

diagnosing the site of toxic metal compartmentalization
diagnosing the exact type of metal
determining the most appropriate and least toxic metal removal agent
determining other appropriate synergistic methods and agents (i.e.kidney drainage remedies, blood protective agents such as garlic or Vit.E., agents that increase fecal absorption and excretion of mobilized Hg, exercise, lymphatic drainage etc.)
diagnosing the secondary infection
determining an appropriate antibiotic regimen (medical antibiotics, antifungals, antivirals, Enderlein remedies, ozone therapy etc.)
monitoring the patient carefully from visit to visit to respond quickly to untoward effects, most often caused by plugged up exit routes (drainage, drainage, drainage)
With this approach many patients that were chronically ill and did not respond to other approaches before will improve or get well.

However, the thoughts expressed sofar do not answer one important basic question:

Why do some patients that are exposed to mercury, deposit the toxin in their hypothalamus (and develop multiple hormone problems), in the limbic system (depression), others in the adrenals (fatigue), in the long bones (osteoporosis, leukemia), some in the pelvis (interstitial cystitis), in the autonomic and sensory ganglia (chronic pain syndromes), some in the connective tissue (scleroderma, lupus), some in the cranial nerves (tinnitus, cataracts, TMJ problems, loss of smell etc.etc), some in the muscles (fibromyalgia)?

As you would assume, multiple causes can be identified:

past physical trauma, such as closed head injury, will make the brain susceptible to become a storage site for lead, aluminum and mercury.
food allergies: they often cause a low grade encephalitis or joint inflammation, again setting up those areas to become targets for toxic deposits
geopathic stress: we found significant numbers of patients sleeping on underground water lines or too close to electrical equipment. Metals concentrate in the body regions most compromised
scars and other foci: scars can create abnormal electrical signals which can alter the function of the ANS (autonomic nervous system). The abnormal impulses often cause areas of vasoconstriction and hypoperfusion, which again become metal storage sites.
Structural abnormalities: TMJ-problems and Cranio-Sacral dysfunctions often are responsible for impairment of blood flow and lymphatic drainage in affected areas
Biochemical deficiencies: if the patient has a chronic zinc deficiency, the prostate, which has a large turn-over of zinc, starts to incorporate other 2-valent metals, such as Hg ++, Pb++
Environmental toxicity (solvents, pesticides, wood preservatives etc.): these agents have a synergistic effect with most toxic metals. Metals will often accumulate in body parts that have been chemically injured at a prior time
Unresolved psychoemotional trauma and unresolved problems in the family system
The last issue is by far the most common factor determining where which metal will be stored in the body and which infectious agent will thrive in what area of the body. This issue has been underestimated by most, due to a lack of appropriate, quick and precise therapeutic interventions.

I developed a type of biofeedback psychotherapy called psycho-neurobiology (APN). The core piece of this approach is the "dialogue with the subconscious mind". Any type of ART technique can be used to obtain answers and engage in the dialogue (muscle testing, EAV, brainwave biofeedback etc.). The technique is aimed at uncovering any unresolved past traumatic event and processing the material in a way that is healing to both the patient and his/her family. The material is covered in the APN I and II handouts and in the video sets from the APN-Seminars.

Again, patients that were poorly responsive or unresponsive to prior treatment with appropriately selected Enderlein remedies and detox agents, responded dramatically by treating the patient first with APN, by unloading emotional material, correcting limiting beliefs and giving opportunity for healing between living and dead family members. In fact, every parameter of their biochemistry, including bio-terrain measurements like tissue and blood ph, osmolality, conductivity but also hormone levels, mineral levels etc. move in a direction toward normal after successful APN treatment. Results are often permanent.

The "disease model" that is emerging from these observations looks as follows:

The symptom is that which is visible or apparent and usually the reason the patient comes to us. Underneath or within it we find most often a chronic infection. Underneath the infection we find the altered milieu, mostly the presence of toxic metals. Underneath the toxic metal, the reason why it is there (other then the obvious necessary exposure), the selection of location, the choice of metal - are all created and guided by the subconscious mind and determined by the type, severity and date of unresolved psycho-emotional trauma or material.

The treatment then looks simple:

1.help the patient to clear the emotional blocks

2.give the appropriate Enderlein remedy

3.give the appropriate metal-detox agent

If this approach is followed, usually the main Enderlein remedies will suffice to treat the patient all the way from chronic illness well into wellness:

Here is a list as a reminder: Not, Pef, Fort, Quent for acute illnesses Ut, UT S, Lat, Rec, Art A and Cand for chronic conditions and either Nig or Muc usually test for the long term treatment soon after begin of therapy.

With this approach many other complicated, invasive and often expensive wholistic approaches become unnecessary. Where the Enderlein remedies seemed to not be enough, they work again strongly, predictably and effectively. The number of medications the practitioner needs to keep in the office is minimal. Treatment time is minimized and the success rate is superb.


Neuraltherapy.com

Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ruth Ruth
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 11059

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ruth Ruth     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks GiGi!

--------------------
When I lost my grip on Faith in the maze of illness,
Hope gently clasped my hand and led on.

RuthRuth

Posts: 478 | From California | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wallace
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 4771

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Wallace     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Good post Gigi! We are living in a chemical soup!

Wallace

Posts: 654 | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
jasonsmith
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 10914

Icon 1 posted      Profile for jasonsmith     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I didn't read the whole thing. But what is a good detox protocal GiGI? I'm wanting to cover everything that you talked about.
Posts: 310 | From TN | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
lalalu
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 10854

Icon 1 posted      Profile for lalalu   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks so much for the reminder!

--------------------
http://chroniclyme.blogspot.com/

"Illnesses, hover constantly above us, their seed blown by the winds, but they do not set in the terrain unless the terrain is ready to receive them."---Claude Bernard.

Posts: 131 | From US | Registered: Dec 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ruth Ruth
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 11059

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ruth Ruth     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Doesn't seem like anyone offered an answer to my questions:
quote:
... someone who told me that bacteria convert mercury into a form that is more toxic.

What kind of bacteria? What forms are more toxic?

Are some kinds of antibiotics killing the kinds of bacteria that do these conversions?

Any body have any ideas?

Thanks.

Edit: to fix typo

[ 12. July 2007, 12:37 AM: Message edited by: Ruth Ruth ]

--------------------
When I lost my grip on Faith in the maze of illness,
Hope gently clasped my hand and led on.

RuthRuth

Posts: 478 | From California | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | LymeNet home page | Privacy Statement

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:

The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey
907 Pebble Creek Court, Pennington, NJ 08534 USA


| Flash Discussion | Support Groups | On-Line Library
Legal Resources | Medical Abstracts | Newsletter | Books
Pictures | Site Search | Links | Help/Questions
About LymeNet | Contact Us

© 1993-2020 The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.
Use of the LymeNet Site is subject to Terms and Conditions.