Topic: anyone heard of cowden protocol or limited cowden?
hopeful123
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3244
posted
Hi, I have relapsed and am now on this homeopathic treatment with drops of parsley, cumanda, etc. anyone ever heard of this? anyone know anyone who is doing this instead of atx?
Not a happy camper since relapse and although I'd like to trust my doctor's p.a., i would feel a lot better if i knew someone here had done it/
posted
My guess is you and I are seeing the same llmd or one of his assistants. I seem to go into remission for 8 or 9 months and the symptoms start to creep in and it's off again to NY!
This protocol was mentioned to me, also. They have been using this for 3 to 4 months and he claims so far so good. I personally want to wait until I know it has worked for a year.
Drawback is insurance doesn't cover herbs and when I asked about the cost, I was told about $100.00 a month. Can't do that unless I know it will work!
Hope you will keep us posted on how it's working for you.
-------------------- nan Posts: 2135 | From Tick Country | Registered: Oct 2000
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Aniek
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Member # 5374
posted
There are people who have done the Cowden protocol. I've used parts of it, but not to battle Lyme.
I used Cumanda to fight yeast, and it worked great. I used Burbur to detox, but I was sensitive to it so stopped.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
If you want to save money on an herbal protocol that actually works, go to the left side of this page to Amazon.com and order the Healing Lyme book by Stephen H. Buhner.
I have been on his protocols for about 18 months now and let me tell you, I was near death when I started it back in November of 2005.
I was living at probably about 30 to 40% of my potential. Now I am at somewheres between 80 and 95%, depending upon the day.
You can encapsulate your own pills to save about 75 to 80% on the "store bought" ones. It isn't all that hard, with the Capsule Machine, which is cheap, and you can do it while watching TV, or whatever.
I buy most of my bulk herbs from 1st Chinese Herbs, online, and they have FREE shipping on orders of $40 or more.
IF you take the herbs properly you won't herx all that much either.
I was also like you, and felt good after taking abx for 24 days back in 2000. However in 8 or 9 months I relapsed also. I didn't know it was a relapse as my duck said I was "cured" with the Cipro. So I let it go. AND IN 2005 MY duck wouldn't give me any more abx, so I went the herb route, along with some doxy, tetracycline, and also some amoxicillin that I picked up from other sources.
My stomach wouldn't tolerate the doxy or the tet, so I went all herbs, except for a couple of short stints of amoxicillin for other problems.
It sure has been working, with only minor relapses, when I didn't keep up with the protocol properly.
GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
I know many people that use the Cowden protocol, parts of it or all of it, having quick results and having slower results. The Cowden protocol is evolving - it's different for every person.
The best way is to find an MD or a naturopathic physician or other practitioner who can test you with ART or other energetic testing methods to determine what your body can handle, which of the herbs work best for you at this particular time. It changes as you are using them.
I do know that Dr. LC will not suggest much of any protocol if a person is very toxic and cannot eliminate toxins effectively. Colon cleansing, etc. etc. Same as Dr. K.
He also does not attempt much with killing agents if found that heavy metal toxicity is a problem. He has developed the LED which works beautifully for this. Many doctors/practitioners are being trained to do LED. I use a little inexpensive laser frequently because I do not want to accumulate any toxins that are really not avoidable living on this earth today. An open mind is what is necessary.
Not everyone can use the Buhner herbs - not everyone can tolerate the Cowden herbs. I know people who did some Buhner and had to switch to something else. It worked well for a time, but then a change is needed. I found that to be true with literally every regimen I have ever used. Same effect as if eating cheesecake or potatoes every day, seven days in a row.
I would suggest, if you have problems, try to find someone with good energetic testing skills. They usually have test kits containing all the different herbs (and toxins) before you invest in products that won't work for you. Whether it works or doesn't work for someone else still leaves the question open whether it will work for you.
Best to you and Take care.
P.S. Parsley tincture for lifelong detox is easy to make and costs pennies in the long run. Any good herb shop will tell you how.
dontlikeliver
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Member # 4749
posted
I also go to same LLMD and I have bought all the Cowden stuff, but I am keeping it as back-up only at this time and watching and watiting to see how others fare on it. It is not $100 a month though, more like $300+ - that is what I paid for my first months supply and apparently the third month goes up quite a bit for some reason.
I remember when I first joined here, it seemed quite a few people were doing it, then it just seemed to dissapear. (the talk of it).
Posts: 2824 | From The Back of Beyond | Registered: Oct 2003
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hopeful123
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3244
posted
oh, friends..
thank you for your replies, although, I have to admit, I am still a bit confused.
i was not energetically tested, it was simply one of three options of what I might try to get out of remission. i have only been taking it for a few days, and really don't notice anything as of yet.
it DID cost around a hundred dollars which is what a couple of atx could cost in co-pays. not that 100 is not a sizeable amount. one of the other things this new (to me) p.a. suggested would present a problem because of a statin i am taking for high cholestoral. another was a problem bc i am allergic to amoxy.
jimbob, i appreciate your response, however, i will need to stick with this protocol for now. not that i wouldn't be willing to look into something else later.
also, I am not so much wanting to hear positive experiences with cowden, as to just that it is known around lymenet and that people are aware of it.
this is an aside......i finally GAVE AWAY my precious oil paints last night because i can't paint with oils thanks to lyme. although i love the person i gave them to and feel that it was a good decision, i feel like i have lost my best friend. they used to be my best friend.
i still do other things creative, but to say to myself i will likely never paint with oils again, is such a big loss. a friend at work commented that she has a saddle in her basement she should give away bc she will never ride again. she can't face it.
i have faced this and feel awful and not filled with hope AT ALL.
i am glad that i got some info today from you guys. you are the BEST.
thanks and i will keep you informed.
-------------------- some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield Posts: 1160 | From NY | Registered: Oct 2002
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
Totally up to YOU hopeful.
I just let you know what I found and worked good for me, as long as I didn't screw it up with using other herbs that folks said to try; and did not mix too well with what I had.
I just hope you can STILL be hopeful. I am an artist myself, and won't give it up totally. Like I said, I was at 30 to 40%, but now at 80 to 95% I CAN do some of my artistic AND mechanical things. Today I had a nice day laying out in the long grass, working on some old car projects. Maybe tonight I will do some art work getting ready for competition next Monday.
Two years ago, I was doing very bad artistically, today I do quite well. WHY give it up? IF you are REALLY hopeful, you CAN do it. IF you follow the right protocols that is.
I started Cowden when most of my lyme symtoms were under control/almost gone.
It helped me a lot with detox issues.....even my gall bladder started to bother at the beginning since it was "flushining out" built up toxins. I was scared.
The pain dissapeared after 2 weeks and have never come back, in fact, I don't keep any diet for it.
NO Joint/muscle pains, neckpain or headaches...but I became sleepy/fatiged and slightly feverish while on this protocol...later on I found out I have a babs relapse.
I'm now since May on Cowden's plus Malarone and Larium and doing better every week , almost 100% and exercising again.
My "lyme" bacteria infection is not currently provoking symptoms.....co-infections have been always my main problem...specially babesia.
I love this protocol because it is another choice for lymies to treat lyme, boost the immune system and detox.
I hope to be again only on herbs, I assume once my babesia is in remission, to keep it at bay with artemisinin or something like that and no more abx or antimalarial drugs.
Posts: 983 | From The sky | Registered: Feb 2005
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valymemom
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Member # 7076
posted
At a symposium recently where your llmd spoke, a few of us asked questions afterwards for 30 minutes or so. A woman came up to the small group and said she had/has been only on the cowden protocol and she was able to give up her wheelchair as a result of this herbal treatment.
This llmd was hopeful good progress would be made by those 100 encouraged by his/her practice to get on it.
I think jim and others have proven that these herbal and salt/c protocols are bringing real relief.
Posts: 1240 | From Centreville,VA | Registered: Mar 2005
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hopeful123
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Member # 3244
posted
thank you so much for your replies. i will write more later.
-------------------- some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield Posts: 1160 | From NY | Registered: Oct 2002
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randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
unfortunately, i couldn't afford the person who was doing cowden. it would have cost me about 500 per month.
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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The LED sounds interesting and useful. Do you know how I might be able to find a practitioner using the LED in my area? I've done a bunch of googling to try to find out, with no luck...
- Andrew
Posts: 443 | From The Wild West | Registered: Jan 2002
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Andrew, Scott Forsgren can probably help you with that. More and more are doing this type of treatment which I think is great
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
I am using the Cowden protocal and no other products. You must be tested energetically for them as some I could not tolerate.
I have so many health issues that I can't say I'm better but I am on a journey. I have been doing this for a year and will probably give this route at least 6 months to another year until I begin to explore again.
I do still have my root canal teeth in. That s making my progress slower. I am not healthy enough to have them removed and not sure what I want to do in that area.
I recommend it, if you are muscle tested. Plus, find someone to do the LEDs in your area. Your doctor who is using the products should know of someone.
Good luck!
Posts: 12 | From Florida | Registered: Jan 2006
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CherylSue
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Member # 13077
posted
Any new updates on the Cowden or modified Cowden protocol? Has Cumanda, samento, burbur, or banderol helped you feel any better?
CherylSue
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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You mention that you know a number of people on the Cowden protocol. How bad was their lyme when the started the protocol? Did they have abx before the protocol? How many are having success? Did any of them get "cured" by the protocol and then have the lyme come back?
sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11141
posted
We must have the same LLMD in NY. Last time I was there he told me that his wife got off abx and her symptoms would return. She started on Cowden herbs and has felt the best she has felt in years.
He has had good results with others using it, too, especially people who relapse when they get off abx.
I am looking forward to the day he thinks I am well enough for it ... right now he has me on abx and says I need them ... I may even need IV.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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I'm confused why he wants to start you with abx, but wants to start me with cowden. How bad is your lyme? Are you very sensitive to medications, in that, do you get rashes or heart involvement from them? How long have you had your lyme?
Actually, I haven't been on abx treatment long enough to say that I've been treated, let alone have a relapse. I think he's taking it slow due to my sensitivities to abx (and anything else I ingest).
sixgoofykids
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posted
I think the best thing to do is to ask him.
I have never had a sensitivity to any kind of medication.
I had what seems like every possible symptom .... fatigue, heart palpitations, night sweats, air hunger, muscle aches, joint pain, insomnia, severe GI issues (diarrhea, weight loss, food intolerances, stomach pain), depression, low thyroid, hair loss, rashes, mood swings, disorientation, confusion, word recall trouble, poor short-term memory, dizziness, weakness.
I could walk, but sometimes I needed help because of the weakness and dizziness. I spent most of my time lying down.
Trust Dr. H, he's the greatest! (I know there are other 'greats' too ).
I'd guess he's working around your intolerances/allergies, but it wouldn't hurt to ask him.
I'm starting the limited Cowden this week in addition to my abx, but that was at MY request.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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CherylSue
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Sixgoofykids,
I just got back from my first visit with an LLMD in Missosuri. He said I showed signs of low metabolism or low thyroid and suggested I try Armour thyroid. This is contoversial considering my thyroid tests are normal. He did say antibiotics for Lyme may take of it.
Did your Dr. H. put you on any thyroid meds? I'm very interested in Dr. H. because he used to be a fanatic of ABX, but now is a Coweden herbal fan. Was it his wife that was helped with the cumanda, etc. protocol?
I'm also doing cumanda/burbur, etc. in addition to the ABX. My LLMD hadn't heard of cumanda, but I gave him the printout that I had.
I suspect Dr. H is cutting edge, and I would be very interested in what you have to say.
I'm herxing on the amoxicillin after 5 days, and I'm wondering if I should just stick with the cumanda. It took me 3 months of herxing to build up to the therapeutic dose of that, and it has given me some improvements once I made it to that dose. With adding the amoxy, I feel the herxes are making me move backwards, and I'm frustrated.
I was just wondering how much weight Dr. H gives to Cumanda.
Just wondering.
Thanks, CherylSue
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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sixgoofykids
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posted
Hi CherlySue,
Dr. H did tell me that his wife improved on Cowden ... she relapsed when she went off abx, but has gotten off of them successfully with Cowden and feels the best she's ever felt.
My thyroid was on the low end of normal, so he did more testing, which was also on the low end of normal. I had been on abx for 8 months before this testing, so they did not take care of the thryoid issue for me. I am on one grain of Armour thyroid ... started a few days ago.
I was on amoxy for almost six months. It was tough to build up to the full dosage. Five days isn't long ... in fact, Dr. H just told me last month that you don't know what an abx is going to do for a person for at least one month, so give it time, it's a good drug. Are you taking Probenecid with it? That helps it stay in the blood stream longer.
I really don't know the answer to your question about what he thinks of Cumanda .... but he seems to think highly of Cowden.
I hear your LLMD is a good one.
I do get the idea that Dr. H is willing to try new things and is open to new ideas. I also like the way he and his PA ask me what I think about started a new med when they change my protocol around ... I feel like I'm part of it even though I always take their suggestions. I feel like we're a team.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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Sounds a lot like me. Sorry for all the questions, but I need to make a decision as to how to go about my treatment and I don't know much about Dr. H.. I've seen him once and spoke to his P.A. a couple of times, but I still don't get a good sense of how good he is.
When were you at 15%? Did Dr. H. make you go to 15%? Was Dr. H. the first LLMD you had seen? How long have you been treated with abx while with Dr. H.? Did you get that bad while under his care? What do you think of his care? Is he still planning to put you on I.V. antibiotics?
Thanks, I appreciate the info. Bubbalyme
Posts: 128 | From Raleigh, NC | Registered: Apr 2007
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sixgoofykids
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Member # 11141
posted
HI Bubbalyme,
I was undiagnosed for 35 years, and at my first visit this past January Dr. H asked me if 0 is dead and 100 is perfect for my age, what % did I feel and I said 15%. He was the first LLMD I had seen.
I fluctuate greatly still on how I feel, today I'd say 65%, but I overdid it yesterday when I felt about 85%, so I've had a HUGE improvement since January!
I have been on abx constantly since Jan. and he's talking about IV if my cognitive symptoms don't clear by this Jan, though he says they could clear up now that we've started Bart treatment. I've also recently started Mino to see if it will help in that area.
Considering how long I've had this, I'm amazed at my progress under his care. He also suggests supplements, which I take. I like the holistic approach.
Getting well takes time and an organized, thorough approach. I think it's best to find an LLMD whose philosophy of treatment matches yours and stick with him for the duration .... or at least a couple years.
Dr. H is aggressive and looks at the whole picture, not "just" Lyme. I've also been treated for heavy metals (lead in my case), low thyroid, and bacterial dysbiosis.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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sixgoofykids
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posted
One had learning disabliities that have gone away with 4 months of Lyme treatment.
I had it when I was pregnant with them. None of them are sick, but the one had some minor joint pain and the learning disability.
My oldest son, age 17, recently had another illness and had what seems like a Lyme flare afterward. We're going to keep him on the Amoxy he was on to see if he herxes. The only symptoms he has at all is a stiff neck and a chronic need to clear his throat. I don't want to take him all the way to NY if I don't need to (he is not under the care of Dr. H).
I have not had the rest tested. Dr. H said I only needed to test if they showed symptoms.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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CherylSue
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Member # 13077
posted
Sixgoofykids,
Thanks so much for sharing the info about your Lyme doctor. That's very encouraging. I'm doing both the amoxicillin and the cumanda/burbur.
What supplements does Dr. H have you on? Does he address hypercoagulation issues, as well.
Thanks again for this valuable info. Hope you continue to improve. 85% isnt' bad!
CherylSue
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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