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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » CD-57 Q

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Author Topic: CD-57 Q
bejoy
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Do you know if the CD-57 test is accurate for multiple strains of lyme or just basic Bb? Is a Quest test as reliable as any other?

--------------------
bejoy!

"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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SForsgren
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I have heard that the test is becoming more widely used in Europe so it would seem that it is not strain specific. Would like to hear more if anyone knows for sure.

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Be well,
Scott

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bejoy
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Also would like to know the approximate cost for this test. Thanks.

--------------------
bejoy!

"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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dmc
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I thought only Labcorp does the test.
it is called HNK 1 (CD57) Panel $141.00
not counting the venipuncture that was $23.00

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notkrazybrian
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Quest offers the CD57 as well. brian
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notkrazybrian
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hmm im not very smart, as the question was is Quest reliable? Im assuming its atleast somewhat reliable as my llmd uses it and i consider him to be a good llmd. brian
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Cass A
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The CD-57 test doesn't test for Lyme at all. It tests for the level of a specific natural killer cell. In Dr. S's research, having a low level of this specific type of cell correlated to Lyme infection level, and recovery of that marker into high normal range correlated to Lyme recovery.

This is not true in all cases, according to Melissa Kaplan's Lyme disease site.

Best,

Cass A

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bejoy
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Cass and others, do you know if the specific killer cell tested for in the CD-57 is strain specific, or if it responds to multiple lyme strains?

--------------------
bejoy!

"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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notkrazybrian
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there are over 300 different strains of lyme disease, so it must be able to detect the basis of bb itself. brian
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notkrazybrian
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there are over 300 different strains of lyme disease, so it must be able to detect the basis of bb itself. brian
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Cobweb
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When I started treatment a year or so ago my LLMD ordered a CD57 test-but since then feels that they are NOT a reliable indicator and no longer orders them.

If finances are an issue I'd bypass it for now.

My guess is that it is not strain specific as it was also used to test the progress of Aids Patients.

If you're trying to narrow down the target for treatment-the answer is no.

BTW-how's the tooth??????

Still listening to Shaina Noll.
Carol

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notkrazybrian
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Why does your llmd think this it is NOT a reliable marker for lyme disease? Most all lyme drs use it to see how treatment is going, and from everything ive read and from what ive seen when its high the person is usually feeling the best, when its low the person is feeling the worst and the disease is most active. Its a very important tool in lyme disease.

If it wasnt for a CD57 test there wouldnt be any other thing to use along with the westernblot as ''actual'' testing besides clinical diagnostics. Is it helpful is diagnosing later stages of lyme most certaintly. Would I recommend getting one done, yes. Would drs that use dr b's guidelines order, yes!

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jasonsmith
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I've been told Dr. B in Kansas believes that some of the sickest Lyme patients have a normal CD57 test. His theory is that the patients immune system isn't detecting the Bb.

If a patient's immune system isn't detecting the Bb, would that mean it would have no effect on the CD57? So you would get a normal CD57? Or does that not matter?

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notkrazybrian
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I dont know everything about the test, but i know in most cases it very useful and a good marker,perhaps someone else can answer that question. brian
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bejoy
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Rats. Nothings cut and dry with this lyme business.

I have a clear clinical dx for myself, but need more than that to decide whether or not to treat the family.

Major medical only, and no LLMD in state. I don't want to spend treatment money on unreliable testing.

It's scarey when you dip into the loan to make the loan pmt. Four IGENEX tests, and that's where I'll be.

Still open for more input if anyone has opinions on this.

Oh and Carol, the tooth thing was heroic, thanks for asking. Shaina Noll should write a song for me, because I am a poor baby. I'm still counting on the outcome rocketing me into amazing health and superhuman vitality.

bejoy

--------------------
bejoy!

"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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canbravelyme
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quote:
Originally posted by jasonsmith:
I've been told Dr. B in Kansas believes that some of the sickest Lyme patients have a normal CD57 test. His theory is that the patients immune system isn't detecting the Bb.

If a patient's immune system isn't detecting the Bb, would that mean it would have no effect on the CD57? So you would get a normal CD57? Or does that not matter?

You know, I was looking at this post, because I'd been wondering the same thing lately.

If you have a negative or equivocal IGeneX result, are you more likely to have a "normal" CD-57?

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For medical advice related to Lyme disease, please see an ILADS physician.

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Cobweb
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notkrazybrian
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I wish i could answer this questions more accuratly, but I would assume that the CD57 has not really to much to do itself with detecting antibodys even if the body isnt able to pick up the antibodys for lyme, because its to see how your natural killer cell 57s are working.

So, using my own thoughts, I would think the cd57 is a subset of natural killer cells, which is lowered in lyme, which would be lowered even if the body isnt recognizing the lyme, because the test doesnt have much to do with detecting antibodys, more to do with how a particular part of the immune system is not working, although if the body isnt making antibodys for lyme the immune system isnt recogizing it, hence making this question very,very hard to answer. There needs to be more specifics on how the cd57 works as a whole. This prolly doesnt make much sense I hope it makes alittle bit.

My IGM was the following
30 +
31 ++
39 ++
41 IND
Positive/cdc negative

IGG
39 IND
41 +++
Negative/cdc negative
CD57 Natural Killer Results 4
Me= Very Sick

If some others would like to post their igenex results and cd57 results we could compare and most likely see if the great question you asked holds to be a true or false question. just and idea. Brian

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notkrazybrian
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oh yea if you go to scotts website www.betterhealthguy.com, he has a section on pdf files, where you can read his notes from conferences hes been to. All of the llmd are well known llmds and every single one thought the cd57 test is a great tool in determined how treatment is going and actually how a patient is feeling. brian
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cantgiveupyet
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i thought i would post my results, i was tested twice thru ignex, and had a cd57 done three times now. here it is


Igenex- July 06 results, CD57 10
IGM
23-25 IND
31 IND
34 IND
39 IND
41+
83-93 IND

IGG
30+
41 IND


NOV 2005 results- no cd57 run

IGM

31IND
41+
66+

IGG
39IND
41+
66+


CD57 run in Nov 2006 was a 42, i was not on any abx during this time, Most recent CD57 is still only a 42.

Me= still sick and dibilitated but more good days.

--------------------
"Say it straight simple and with a smile."

"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet,
But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."

-Schopenhauer

pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg

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djf2005
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cd test is only good if your body is fighting

it measures the amount of killer cells active

my cd57 test is normal, and i am sick as can be w lyme and co infections

the longer you have been sick, the more over run your immune system becomes.

as posted above, some of the worst cases of lyme, etc, have normal cd levels.

--------------------
"Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."

[email protected]

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djf2005
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cd test is only good if your body is fighting

it measures the amount of killer cells active

my cd57 test is normal, and i am sick as can be w lyme and co infections

the longer you have been sick, the more over run your immune system becomes.

as posted above, some of the worst cases of lyme, etc, have normal cd levels.

--------------------
"Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."

[email protected]

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valymemom
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I recently attended a support meeting and this came up. I mentioned that I was symptom free for two months on abx and I had never in 14 months had the 57 test run.

But then my llmd decided to..... and mine was 200.

I have been off abx now for 3 months....a total of 5 months symptom-free.

Anyway a gal at this meeting had well over 280 (can't recall the high number) and she was still very sick.

My PCP who is lyme literate and treats many is now saying before he takes one off abx they need to be symptom-free for two months while on abx and have a 57 over 150. I was recently retested during my physical and it dropped almost 50 points. I am still very much symptom-free.

My llmd did use it when first treating lyme folks, but then found it did not correspond with patients seen so stopped.....then started up again after attending the last ILADs in Philly.

This is just meant to tell you that I think it is used by docs when a patient has a low # cause it fits the clinical picture. When a person has a high number and remains sick then it is not used.

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valymemom
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I am copying from respected llmd's slides that are inthe notebook we received at the symposium in New Haven

CD 57

: low counts seen in chronic lyme when infection has been active 1 year or longer

: relects degree of infection

: can be a screening test

: predicts a relapse if low when abx end/stopped

: must be done by Labcorp (normal is above 200)

: Below 20 is severe illness

: 20 - 60 most common result in chronic patients

: above 60 the lyme activity is minimal

: above 120 relapse is not likely after treatment ends

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bejoy
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So far what I am seeing is that a low CD-57 usually indicates that the person is quite ill with lyme borrelia.

However, it seems that it is still possible to have a high CD-57 score and still be very ill.

It makes sense to me that this could mean that the chronic illness is being caused by other tick borne illnesses or other infections besides a lyme borrelia.

Has anyone heard of someone having a low CD-57 score after being quite well from lyme borrelia?

bejoy

--------------------
bejoy!

"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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cantgiveupyet
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I have seen posts from the member 'lymeinhell' saying her cd57 was low even though she is off abx and doing better now.


thanks valleymom for the interpretation, i fit it well.

--------------------
"Say it straight simple and with a smile."

"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet,
But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."

-Schopenhauer

pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg

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