What can you do if you can't get any antibiotics for treatment?
Kayda
Posts: 582 | From midwest | Registered: Nov 2006
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sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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Depends on why you can't get on abx ....
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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luvs2ride
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posted
You buy the book "Healing Lyme" by Stephen Buhner and you give it a try.
Luvs
PS: I would also fly wherever I had to to find a doctor trained in lyme and in bringing the body back into balance.
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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CaliforniaLyme
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I would buy abx from a feed store. Tell them I had a goat exactly my weight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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D Bergy
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posted
You can still use natural antibiotics such as Samento,Cumanda and Banderol. My wife has used the first two and they helped a lot. No side effects either.
D Bergy
Posts: 2924 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Very good question. I'm wondering the same thing about what a Lyme sufferer does if they can't get the antibiotics for various reasons...
what if they don't have health insurance and don't have much money?...
I've heard that some of the antibiotics that some patients are on cost over a hundred bucks for a month's supply... yikes!!
Or what if a person's doctor doesn't recognize the need for long-term antibiotic treatment, and therefore will not prescribe for antibiotics long-term??
Going to Canada or Mexico would be great. But what if the person with Lyme can't afford to go to either place?
Or can't afford to fly to Connecticut or wherever there are specialists?
I'm wondering all of these things because my boyfriend is experiencing some residual symptoms from the Lyme he had last year... Lyme he was only given 14 days of doxycycline for...
he has no health insurance and no PCP... and not much money beyond covering the basic necessities of rent, food, and gas money every month...
[ 10. August 2007, 04:41 PM: Message edited by: sb1973 ]
Posts: 9 | From Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania | Registered: Aug 2007
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luvs2ride
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Holy Cow Cave and Calif,
I wish you were joking about getting abx from a feed store but you sound serious.
PLEASE WHATEVER YOU DO, DO NOT SELF TREAT WITH ANTIBIOTICS AND ESPECIALLY ONES PURCHASED FROM A FEED STORE OR BLACK MARKET!!
THINK PEOPLE THINK! YOU HAVE NO WAY OF BEING SURE THE ABX IS THE RIGHT DOSAGE AND PURITY FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION!
Ok, I'll stop yelling now. I can only assume the lyme is in your brain if you would ingest toxic drugs purchased through, gulp!, a feed store. I own horses folks and can tell you first hand that horses, cows and goats can ingest dirt and debris that would make us very sick. The quality control for animal products is nowhere near the quality control for humans.
I don't know what else to say about this. The lack of logic seems so obvious.
Luvs
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
I'm not so sure the animal meds are low quality - I looked into the vet medicine possibility before I found my LLMD, and get the impression that the vet drugs are made by the same manufacturers and methods as the human ones and just packaged differently.
I'm getting such poor care from my regular doctors that I'm not afraid that, say, I'd have an emergency allergy reaction and have to go to the ER for help, and have to admit I was taking vet meds.
I'd get pretty much the same response if I say I'm taking long-term ABX for Lyme, so whether they think I'm stupid for treating Lyme long-term, or taking vet meds, what difference does it make? Either way they'll treat my emergency, send me home and forget about me.
Doxy is really cheap even through a pharmacy, about $13 per month at 400 mg/day. This indicates it's cheap to manufacture, to human standards. The problem is getting the prescription.
I wouldn't worry about the "toxic drugs", doxy's been around for decades and the side effects are well-known - better known than that of the many herbal and nutritional supplements around. We only have their advertisements and personal stories as sources of information on them.
Not that I'm knocking herbs and supps, just that I wouldn't assume that stuff from the health food store or herbalist is automatically safer than stuff from a reputable vet supply.
And I am sure that going untreated for Lyme is not a good thing.
Good luck, and good health to us all...
Lorima
Posts: 74 | From MA | Registered: May 2007
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just don
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posted
Dear Luvs,
Sorry to disagree with YOU,,,but your all wrong. Vet drugs HAVE to be made to human specs, period!!
I was told so repeatedly by my OLD vet. He OR his wife NEVER EVER went to a doctor,,,they self treated off the vet drug shelves,,,and they are still alive and doing well.
Lots MORE stories where those came from.
The vet meds comes from the same factory, same vat, same method as people ones do. AND meet same standards in all regards. Only difference IS label slapped on and price charged!!! Resulting marketing costs,,,and legistalive lobby expenses,,,add to the costs ,which are HUGE!!!
You think all those drug reps in and out of a doctors office while you are there,,,works for nothing??
While I sat in a waiting room for awhile no less than 5 took the docs time getting him to prescribe this or that,,,while I waited,,,and waited,,,and waited.
They should put a seperate revolving door in for those folks,,,and replace it often,,,cause they will wear it out!!!
There were a couple threads about it a couple weeks ago,,,read those for MORE info. Its something we ALL need to be more aware of,,,cause we MAY need it if things get MUCH worse!!
Plus all those poor broke folks NEED something,where else they gonna go??? Injectable biccilion(sp) costs like $100 bucks a pop,,,"same" thing in vet form costs about 9 cents!!!Nuff said!!!no doc---just don--
-------------------- just don Posts: 4548 | From Middle of midwest | Registered: May 2001
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charlie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
1. the vet stuff is the same medicine as human with the possible exception of fish food or chicken feed containing tetracyclines...
2. You don't need ANYBODY's permission to treat yourself. It's YOUR body, it's not a possession of 'society' and it sure ISN'T a property of the x!&%^#$x#^&*%$^ government!
The two of us in this household self-treated the whole way through and did much better than most at much less expense.
Charlie
Posts: 2804 | From Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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CaliforniaLyme
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Luvs, thank you for your concern*)!*)!! I have never done it but it is my back-up plan!!
I know a few people who have done it successfully now with no problems and got better*)!*)!!!!!!!!!!!
Better than dyinG*)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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TerryK
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I've been taking herbs and supplements for decades and I've never had the horrendously elevated liver enzymes that I've had since starting abx. Thank goodness I was being seen by a very good LLMD who was keeping an eye on me. Liver failure kills people. Prescription drugs kill people even when under the care of a physician. It is a common occurrence.
I understand why it is tempting to go the route of vet drugs. I can't speak to quality issues because I don't know about that but prescription drugs are generally much stronger and more toxic than herbs and supplements so plesae be very careful that you don't damage yourself beyond repair. Make sure you keep an eye on your liver, kidneys, immune system etc... I don't know how you can do that without the cooperation of an LLMD or at the least a good doctor.
I developed hyper-pigmentation on minocycline. I didn't know what it was and neither did my fibro doctor. Thank goodness for my LLMD. Abx are not benign so please keep that in mind.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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Pocono Lyme
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If necessary, I would do vet meds.. I self medicated for months before seeing a LLMD, or my PCP for that matter.
Was I scared? You betcha. But I felt I had no choice as I felt like I was on my death bed, could no longer work, had no insurance, was turned down for insurance etc..
It took all I had in me to sit up long enough at the computer, with help, to place the order. Did it help? I'm still here.
No. Antibiotics are not without risk. Neither are herbs. A local man recently had a liver transplant and the only thing they could attribute his liver failure to was doing a three day course of herbs. On the local news a few months back
I know of another person with lyme, talked to frequently, did antibiotics for years, did OK, but not in remission. Went to herbs for six months and didn't make the six months due to sky high liver enzymes. No antibiotics.
We need to be careful with Both. As Lymetoo often recommends, go to DrugDigest.com. Check interactions, but also check each individually.
-------------------- 2 Corinthians 12:9-11
9 But he said to me, �My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.� Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ�s power may rest on me. Posts: 1445 | From Poconos, PA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Kayda
Posts: 582 | From midwest | Registered: Nov 2006
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luvs2ride
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Just Don,
Your vet has much more medical training then most of the posters here at lymenet. If he wants to take the drugs, he can do so much more safely than you or I. Well, at least me. I don't know what your background is.
Telling people to self treat is reckless. People want to cry all day long about the dangers of herbs but will blindly chuck down any prescription drug and laugh at the side effects.
Heck, many of you here have "gallbladder removal" parties.
I say in every post and will say again, DO NOT SELF TREAT!. Not with supplements, homeopathic remedies and most certainly not with drugs.
Buhner's protocol has much research behind it and is helping many here. No one has had liver damage, gall bladder removal, damaged spleens or heart that I have heard from taking Buhner's protocol.
Herbs are food and nothing more. Sure some herbs are poisonous just like some foods are posionous. But all prescription drugs are poisonous. Most herbs heal. Most drugs do not heal, they kill. That is what they are designed to do.
Work with a doctor who has the training and the knowledge. Find one knowledgeable in treating lyme.
Even working through your vet would be much better advice than going to your local feed store and treating yourself. Unless of course you are a doctor.
Bet your vet would lose his license for treating you though.
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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luvs2ride
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Come on Cavey,
You know you have said the exact same things about self-treating only you were talking to people about herbs.
Same difference.
Luvs
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Some more natural antibiotics...cats claw, grapefruit seed extract, Vit C and D (sunshine)which I self prescribe and colloidal silver. A naturopath should be able to help you out. good luck.
Posts: 731 | From Humble,TX | Registered: Feb 2005
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hardynaka
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Whether on abx or on herbs, no one can get away from cleansing, specially the liver, but sometimes also pancreas, kidneys, intestines.
Not usually is the abx or herb that causes that high enzyme problem, nor herb/ abx interactions, but endotoxins/ neurotoxins released with die off will almost always stress cleansing organs, SPECIALLY liver.
I dont' know anyone that's got better of chronic lyme without cleansers, no matter what protocol. Acute lyme is different though. If anyone knows, please check in!
I didn't have any access to abx, even pets here in Switzerland/ Germany cannot get abx without prescription. I went directly to herbs, and they worked well so far.
Not any herb, but a cocktail of herbs.
Self prescription, in my opinion, is better than no prescription at all. If no one wants to treat you, if you have no insurance to treat you, get informed and choose what you think could work best for you. That's what I did in the beginning, before I found my actual practioners.
Many here were on vet abx. I hate abx myself, so I went to herbs and only used abx when I mostly needed (short time).
Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
What we need from doctors is not just the prescriptions but also their training, treatment experiences and guidance.
My husband is a vet. Veterinary medicine is indeed manufactured under the same standards as is human medicine.
We have antibiotics sitting on the shelf at our clinic.
In my case, I went to a doctor, then another one, then another one, then another one, and so on looking for help USING antibiotics.
I've also tried herbs.
Everything I've tried makes me so sick I can't continue treatment.
I guess what I'm trying to say is this: to a one, we have complicated health problems. If you are lucky enough to guess which antibiotic is going to help you, then you could buy it and take it on your own.
IF you are also lucky enough to not need help using the drug. IF you know if you are getting well or if there's something you're overlooking.
Not to say that many doctors are very good at treating TBDs, and based on experience, it's getting hard for me to trust anyone.
I would be very happy if I could just go get the right drug, take it and get well. Most vets self-treat, and treat their families with animal drugs. This is still a grey area, and it's illegal for a vet to treat people.
My husband is a better doctor than any physician I've ever seen. It doesn't mean he has the "answer" for treating people with Lyme Disease. He treats dogs and cats.
Part of me is pretty sure I know more about Lyme than most doctors, and certainly care more about my health than any of them. The other part knows that if I make myself worse or permanently damage myself, I'll have no one but myself to blame.
It is frustrating, and for those who have successfully treated themselves, good for you.
We shouldn't have to. Posts: 353 | From Florida boonies | Registered: Nov 2005
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RoadRunner
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Yes it was abx
nice post Michelle M and don
Nebula2005 thanks for the facts.
RR
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and colloidal silver. A naturopath should be able to help you out.![[cussing]](graemlins/cussing.gif)
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