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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » My hubby sent me this link...has anyone tried this?? (Page 1)

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Author Topic: My hubby sent me this link...has anyone tried this??
Nal
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http://www.lymefree.com/?gclid=COWVuOrYwI4CFRGCGgodZivRwQ

I hope this comes through. Just wondering if anyone has heard of this or not.

Nancy

[ 15. September 2007, 04:14 PM: Message edited by: Nal ]

--------------------
Life is 10% what happens to you, 90% how you respond to it!

-Chuck Swindoll

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bettyg
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my 1st look and gut reaction, SCAM [Mad]
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frakktured1
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Sorry Nal but Betty is right.

this is a big scam.

They're trying to tell you that they can retrain your immune system to seek out and kill all pathogens in the human body.

How they go about this is a recording of someone playing guitar and in the background(supposedly using subliminal messages to your

subconscious mind)that will retrain your immune system to seek and destroy all known and unknown pathogens that attack the human body.

For a fast 125.00 or whatever it is now. You have a conference call where they recite a bunch of numbers and letters(mumbo jumbo),

so as to set up your mind for the forthcomming subliminal recording.
They even throw in some kinda preacher or something to try and get credability.

Don't fall for this please.
Unless you have money to burn.

I think it was some dink named derik from south africa who first brought this scam to the lymenet board.

Who knows he might crawl out from under his rock and make a comment or two.

FXD

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Nal
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I figured as much. With my luck the subliminal messages to tell me to do cooky things and I don't need that [Wink]

Nancy

--------------------
Life is 10% what happens to you, 90% how you respond to it!

-Chuck Swindoll

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Just Me
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HOCUS-POCUS!
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Lymetoo
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[tsk] [Wink]

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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1Bitten2XShy
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This was brought up in another post several days ago. I know Scott was one that replied, and while he said he did not endorse it yet, he has done I think it was 5 sessions so far.
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map1131
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Nope, wouldn't spend my money there. I was on the lyme/rife site yesterday and a post lead me to this site.

Sometimes people that are clueless about lyme think we just need some positive thinking and everything will be ok. Postive thoughts and reading is good, but it not going to kill the body of toxins.

Oh, if it were only so simple. Where have you been Nal?

Pam

--------------------
"Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill

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perplexed
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Scam,scam and more scam!! I abhor websites like this who prey on innocent victims....grrrr.

Hugs, Perplexed [cussing]

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Meg
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Wasn't this the scam with the religious overtones that said you could will lyme away?

They must not be making enough off their site [shake]

--------------------
Success Stories---Treatment Guidelines

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perplexed
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Where are these 1st time posters coming from anyway?? I smell something fishy...

This is a scam.

Hugs, Perplexed [tsk]

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bettyg
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nal,

how about deleting this entire thread?

to do it, click PENCIL icon,

go to top and click DELETE THEAD; hit enter, and it's gone for good.


perplexed; you're right!!!! [Frown] [tsk]

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Nal
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Thanks for the input here. I have no reason to delete the thread-I just honestly wanted to know what people thought of it. I guess different therapies work for different people. Bless my hubby, he is trying so hard to find ways to help me. He had no opinions on this site either-was just something he came across and I said I would look into it.

Heck, none of the therapies I have done work and I have tried MANY, MANY, MANY!!

Still, haven't been on here much-sorry. I actually was feeling pretty good there for quite a while (no therapies or anything) until recently.

Nancy

--------------------
Life is 10% what happens to you, 90% how you respond to it!

-Chuck Swindoll

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frakktured1
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Nancy,

I think Betty wants you to delete the thread because it has left an avenue for the scam artists to keep posting on this BALONEY.

You are the only one that can delete your own thread and the monitors of course.

I understand there are different protocol,guidelines,therapies whatever and etc.

The scam that your husband brought up sounds like something and they even give it religeous undertones....
They're gonna really burn in hell because of bringing now children into the thing.

You can do whatever you like....but....I think it would be good to delete...and I also think it would be OK to keep.

Delete it for the reasons I mentioned earlier and keep so that other people with the same questions about this SCAM....can get the honest word about it faster.

You people at lymefree should be.... [cussing] [cussing] well the rules on this board preclude me from saying exactly what I want to say.... [tsk] [tsk]

FXD

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karatelady
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Nal,

Since Scott is already trying it as mentioned above, why don't you follow his progress and see how he does. That way you won't be out any money.

Sandy

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CaliforniaLyme
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HOw weird those two pro-site posters are both posting here for the first time- #1 posts for each!!! COincidence?? Sure*)!

My favorite part of this website is the section
FIND YOUR DISEASE where it says that all of the following can be cured by this(*)!*)!

And MARRIAGE is listed as an AILMENT!!! Wow.
Not my marriage. Poor people!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Ailments Sorted Alphabetically

acne burning skin crohn's disease dust allergy
foods hives migraines raynaud's disease ulcer
ADD - ADHD cancer related cigarette smoke ear aches gluten,wheat hormonal imbalances mold allergy restless leg syndrome urinary infection
ankylosing spondylitis candida constipation eczema grass allergy hypothyroid mononucleosis sex abuse vertigo, dizzyness anxiety
canker sores cough egg allergy hair loss insomnia
multiple sclerosis shoulder pain yeast overgrowth arthritis carpal tunnel dairy
epstein barr headaches joint pains panic attacks stomach asthma carrot allergy depression exhaustion heart burn lesions peanut allergy
strabismus autism cats diaper rash feather allergy heart palpitations loss of smell
loss of taste perfume allergy sugar addiction
balance, loss of chemical allergies dog allergy fertility hepatitis c lyme disease pollens
tendon pains breast cysts chronic fatigue dry skin fibromyalgia hernia marriage post partum tourettes

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There is no wealth but life.
-John Ruskin

All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer

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hiker53
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This is not a scam, although it does not work for everyone. I have personally talked to several people who are in remission or free from lyme symptoms. For some it took 20 sessions and for some it took 40 sessions.

It seems to work better for people with arthritic symptoms. It works well for people who have allergies. Hiker

--------------------
Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

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oxygenbabe
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I know this looks, smells, sounds like a scam in every way. Nonetheless, I am going to try it. You all know me, so I'll report back in a few months. The reason I'm going to try it is I thought homeopathy was a scam until a recent experience. So I decided the world is stranger than I thought [Smile] .
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Just Me
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quote:
Originally posted by CaliforniaLyme:
HOw weird those two pro-site posters are both posting here for the first time- #1 posts for each!!! COincidence?? Sure*)!

Now there are even more suspicious first time posters, but we cannot tell for sure if their testimonies are genuine or that they just want to advertise for less well-intended motives.

That's why unsubstantiated testimonies, which are posted here daily, are rather useless, especially about methods that lack logic, unless its from someone you know well and who you can trust.

But nothing can replace scientific testing of methods to establish efficacy and safety.

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hiker53
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Again,

I am going to say this is not a scam. I now Connie from other Lyme sites and her heart is loyal to God and she would not lie about IRT helping her.

I tried it last summer and did 14 sessions and then quit due to 2 surgeries. The owner, who is not a priest as someone said in this thread, has kindly offered for me to try it again for free. So, like Scott, I have done 5 sessions. So far I cannot tell a difference, but I also have just gone back to teaching after 1 1/2 years off and that is really taxing me.

I spoke with a woman in Maine. Her husband used it to cure his allergies (He did not have Lyme). She tried it for Lyme, but it has not worked for her.

So, just like herbs work for some, antibiotics work for some, rife works for some, the Marshall protocol works for some, salt/C works for some, laser therapy works for some, IRT works for some.

My feeling is if you have not tried it don't knock it. It may help someone. I will keep you posted in the coming months as to whether it helps me or not. Hiker

[ 16. September 2007, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: hiker53 ]

--------------------
Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

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nellypointis
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ML
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lymeflash
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conniekillbug
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dcharb
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Need I say more?

Yes, I will say more: these/that people/person came on to EuroLyme with their "testimonies". They are more persistent than your usual spammer/scam artist.

They are pretty grossly obvious, don't you think?

Same thing on EL one person joins out of the blue and gives you their heartbreaking testimony and success with whatever they are pushing, complete with ref to God and to "you can do it if you really want to get better" Yuk!

Nelly

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Truthfinder
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So, let me get this straight because I certainly don't want to be stupid....

If you have absolutely no knowledge of something, no personal experience with it at all and don't know anyone who has, then you should yell ``SCAM!'', right?

Okay, and then if there is any money changing hands for a particular Lyme treatment - OTHER than antibiotics and other potentially dangerous drugs peddled by pharmaceutical companies, of course - then one should be absolutely outraged by someone making any money, right?

Thanks for your input, Hiker - much appreciated.

It's a bit unreasonable to expect people who have been successful with the IRT program to come to LymeNet and post their results. They would have to be crazy to do so. Look at how they are treated when they do finally post something.

Hiker has been around here a long time - if you can't put any trust in a new poster, what is your excuse for discounting an Old Timer here?

Poor Nal is just trying to get information. Perhaps those of you who don't have any shouldn't confuse the issue for her.

Lymeflash makes a good point:
**"Every person has their opinion. If I want to know about Spain, I'll ask someone who has actually been there. Getting directions from someone who has not been there is always risky."**

Exactly.

Tracy

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�.

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motownlyme
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I was desperate enough to try it and I'm sorry to say I didn't see any improvement. I dropped out after about 5 session. Too expensive. I wanted to believe it would work for me. I want anything to work so I can have me back.

I'm glad some of you out there did get help though from it though, however and in whatever way. Some of the others in my group did seem to be improving.

They do give a free CD so you can look at their program. I still think it was not entirely on the up and up though. EVERYONE in the office was named Celeste. That's not a common name, so two in the same small office seems unusual, but three Celestes in the same office?

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nellypointis
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Tracy,

Come on! Have you read the "testimonies"? There always the same, same phraseology as always, same phony stories, every time. Have you been to the website?

Haven't you seen enough of these to make up your mind? I have.

Nelly

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hiker53
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Not everyone in the office is named Celeste. Only one that I have talked to. Quite often Kim answers the phone or else a young man. I don't know where someone got that idea at all.

If you don't want to try IRT, fine, but please don't try to persuade others not to try it when it might help.

People scoffed at Galileo and his discoveries, too. Hiker

--------------------
Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

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kelmo
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I tend to run from any business that uses God as a way to market their system/product.

If I choose not to use it, does that mean I don't trust God to heal me?

Can God use other means to heal? Does healing always happen in an instant, at my convenience?

I really don't like spiritual blackmail.

Anyone see Pete's Dragon? Check out Doc Terminus and his sidekick "Hoagie". They use the same method of sales as the two recent posters who joined to promote their product.

This is not to slam anyone who tried it. I understand this disease calls for people to be risktakers to cure themselves. Thank you for being the pioneers to warn/share with us your experience.

I just don't appreciate God being used as a business mascot.

Kelly

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randibear
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bull poopy........

--------------------
do not look back when the only course is forward

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nellypointis
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quote:
Originally posted by cave76:
Where's Nelly when we need her? [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

Watching the rugby on the telly!! My husband MAKES me, I HAVE to watch it or else...!!!

Anyway, I told you, these folks are really tough cookies! They won't take no for an answer, I guess they think they will catch a few fishes by being really pushy.

I give up, I'm deleting them from EL but there's nothing I can do around here.

I don't think i'll open this topic again

Nelly

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kelmo
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boo hoo.
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BJG
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hey,
Most thought all who believed the world was round was whacky.

I too have a hard time with anyone who uses us as a scam, what if it isn't a scam.

The last I looked the word is round.

Mr Hiker is a nice, lovely lady!!!

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kelmo
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This thread is creeping me out, can we get rid of it?
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janet thomas
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Agreed totally but don't delete it-it's too telling-so many new members all pushing IRT-do they work on comission or are they salaried?

--------------------
I am not a doctor and this is not medical advice but only my personal experience and opinion.

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SunRa
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I didn't read all the responses, but I can easily assume what most here feel about IRT so I'm hesitant to jump in...but here goes...

while I'm very open to all possible paths towards healing, personally I'm turned off by the religious and sales-pitchy aspects. HOWEVER - (and I've been here a long time and definitely not hired by the company to say this) - I do know a couple people (not just a friend of a friend of an internet friend), but ACTUAL people who are noticing dramatic improvements from IRT.. including one of my closest friends.

He's been very disabled for several years with only minimal and non-lasting improvement from other treatments (IV/oral abx, HBOT, etc)... he went into IRT desperate and VERY skeptical but he's getting better and better.

there are many people getting results from IRT that would never post about it here for fear of ridicule, but it does seem to work for some people. I'd be interested to hear from anyone else who's doing it.

And since you get your money back if you don't notice any improvements after a few sessions, you can't really be scammed.

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SunRa
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quote:
Originally posted by SunRa:
..I've been here a long time and definitely not hired by the company to say this..

while I agree it's fishy that there are so many new members posting about IRT, I want to add that I wasn't implying that all, or any, of the new posters work for the company.

In fact I remember Connie from another board a while back and had bookmarked her blog pre-IRT...she's a genuine and caring person and a lymie struggling with the rest of us. So please be respectful, as I, for one, am interested in her (and others') experiences.

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Just Me
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quote:
Originally posted by kelmo:
This thread is creeping me out, can we get rid of it?

This whole board is creeping me out. I miss the high level of intelligent informative discussion that was seen on sci.med.diseases.lyme and lymenet.org in the past. Those were the days.
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frakktured1
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So you see NAL(Nancy),

By leaving this post here you have done some good.
OK Betty, do you see what I'm getting at?

Pretty much all a newcomer has to do is check out the posters that are pro this silly scam and they'll get some insight as to who to trust and

who they should run away from.

Nancy, you can keep this post here for others, to get the names of the posters we can trust and the scam "artists"(I use the term artist lightly).

I am surprised by some of the older posters. Man, either they've actually been here all this time, thinking that longevity begets trustworthiness.

Or there's some other way to get the number of posts to a substantial amount. Or

They somehow hi-jack the names of past posters.

Now all of a sudden, just to finally come out, of the woodwork and blow their invested time setting up supposed, credibility by seniority.

Only substantiates what others have said about how persistant and pushy these people really have become. It's simply ammazing! And

laughable...because that's all I can do about how diligently they go about setting their traps! Only to eventually fall into them,

themselves and finally reveal who they REALLY are and where they're comming from.

Now they'll have to start all over again! LOL

For some of you who are quite liberal thinkers and wish only the best for we sick folks by leaving the doors to all possibilities open.

The few that have remarked that no one should belittle this scam if they have'nt "BEEN THERE".


I HAVE BEEN THERE...OK!

It's Bunk!

It IS, as I described it earlier. A futile attempt at audio subliminal programming of the subconscious mind. And a REALLY POOR attempt to do even that! HA!

Were you not reading carefully enough?
Or should I put you on my lists as well?

Go for it if you want to pay about 125bucks to have someone recite gibberish in your ear on the phone.
You'll get a nice CD with guitar music and more gibberish recited over the guitar music!

(if it were REALLY subliminal you see, the conscious mind, and ear, would'nt hear it at all....HAHAHAHA!....)

These scam "artists" would know that, if they spent time on an education, instead of investing time on websites like this, trying to establish credibility...

Alright,
I'm finished....

FXD

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eric
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Im not trying to convince anyone of the benefits of IRT. Im just telling you about my personal experience. During the years Ive tried many Lyme treatments. Some of them have helped for a while, some didnt do a thing and some made worse. Antibiotics stopped working and I got frequent inflammations all over the body; joints, kidney, bladder, sinus, lung, brain. So I had no other posssibility than to look for alternative treatments.

IRT is one of the many treatments Ive tried. (BTW, Im not religious and Ihavent noticed any religion on IRT- if there is they dont show it very clearly. After the code reading they say "Thank you God" - thats all Ive heard.)

Ive taken about 15 IRT sessions. Im not completely out of the woods but it has helped a lot with arhtritis and fatique. After 13th session my joint pain was gone. Ive been painfree now for over a month. Of course it is possible that the symptoms flare up some day again - only time will tell. Ive still some other symptoms left, so Ive decided to keep on doing IRT for some more sessions.

At the moment, I feel that combining different treatments might lead to the best results (antibiotics, Rife, detoxing, diet, IRT etc). Most probably there isnt "one size fits all" -treatment.

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hardynaka
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When Rife "appeared", it was seen as scam too!

When a few practioners talked about many lyme patients being metal toxic many years ago, it was seen as nonsense. Lyme was ONLY a bacterial infection.

Different types of treatment (eletromagnetic currents and toxin + metal ellimination) are now seen as almost 'standard'.

I don't like the idea that there are people here that only post to sell the magic bullet. Totally agree on that. But to deny a new form of treatment, the way you guys do here, even though some say 'it's working' looks suspicious.

You never tried it and you say it doesn't work?

I never tried IRT and won't probably do it, because I think I'm done with lyme. But if I'm bitten again, or fall sick again, who knows?

I am one person that only used alternatives to treat lyme and I think I'm done with it now!! Even after recent reinfection with many coinfections. Only time will tell. But my lyme doctor said that he has never seen anyone improve so fast as I did.

Eurolyme is a limited lyme forum, in my opinion. It does what some of you guys in this thread are doing, denying that ANY alternative forms of treatment help in fighting lyme disease, despite of credible testimonies saying the opposite.

I left Eurolyme as I was not on the abx route, the only route they accept as treatment of lyme. The forum moderator, if I understood well, is still sick with lyme despite long long years of treatment with the best known physicians.

Selma

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merrygirl
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It sounds wacky to me.

quote:
." Getting set goes like this: they will ask you to take a deep breath, blow it out and hold your breath (as you are doing this, they will be picturing, in their head, rubbing your back 7 times around from right to left). You will be told to breathe and then they will say a silent prayer of intent for the codes to work: the actual prayer is - "fix Gary's mistakes; restore everything to your original design; thank you, God."
Huh? Picturing rubbing my back?

If it works for you so be it and I am happy for you. Just don't start putting on tinfoil hats!

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Truthfinder
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Thank you, SunRa and eric!

The only thing that creeps me out on this thread are the people who think they have the right - or some kind of misplaced duty - to prevent others from learning about a treatment that just may be the most beneficial treatment they have ever found to combat their illness. Who are ANY of you to prejudge that?

Delete the thread? Censorship once again?

Gee, I really appreciate the thought, but here's a news flash - I don't want your unsolicited intervention in my life!!! Please, DO NOT PROTECT ME!!!

Doesn't it register with any of you that you only hurt others by attempting to rip away their options, no matter what your personal feelings are about it?

Spammers? Scammers?

Sorry, but you're not spamming a thread if you post when the topic is started by a neutral resident LymeNetter, especially if there is no financial connection. And you can't very well scam somebody if you return their money if it doesn't work.

Go ahead and voice your opinion and be just as sarcastic, snide, derisive, rude, and denigrating as you like. I guess the following LymeNet rule does not apply to you:

"Users shall not post ...... any material which ... infringes in any way upon the rights of others, which is ...... abusive, hateful, harassing, ......or otherwise objectionable..... Any conduct by a user that in LymeNet's discretion restricts or inhibits any other user from using or enjoying the LymeNet System Interactive will not be permitted."

If you make your comments caustic enough and incite enough discord, the Moderators will step in and delete the thread, thereby accomplishing what you could not do yourselves: eliminate the written evidence on this board that some unlikely-appearing alternative treatments work, and drive away the people willing to talk reasonably about them.

What are you people so afraid of?

I used to ponder how and why it could come to pass that the very people that Jesus Christ came to help were the people who wanted him dead. Thanks for the lesson - I get it now.

Tracy

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�.

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nellypointis
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quote:
Originally posted by hardynaka:
[QB] Eurolyme is a limited lyme forum, in my opinion. It does what some of you guys in this thread are doing, denying that ANY alternative forms of treatment help in fighting lyme disease, despite of credible testimonies saying the opposite.

I left Eurolyme as I was not on the abx route, the only route they accept as treatment of lyme. The forum moderator, if I understood well, is still sick with lyme despite long long years of treatment with the best known physicians

Selma,

I don't think you know too, too much about EL and its moderators, and I am finding your comments rather low, cocky and uninformed.

EL has 1520 members to date, and there is not one EL party line for treating, people are free to make up their own minds and they do. FYI we DO use alternative/herbal strategies but we don't "buy" any old scam that comes along.

I will not enter into a discussion with somebody who relies on ART for diagnosis and treatment decision. If you find this narrow or limited, so be it, not my problem.

And btw, I seem to remember you used Riamet, hardly alternative! Used mainstream to treat life-threatening malaria. I'm glad you did, and I am glad you're recovered

Nelly Pointis (co-moderator of EuroLyme, Gill Reese is currently off-line due to moving)

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charlie
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....this sounds suspiciously like the same bunch who annoyed us for an evening on the Sat. nite chat room awhile back. Fortunately there's a moderator there with a delete key.

Remember there's also always some tacky preacher with a stretch limo and a bad hair piece out there to scam you out of some $$$ to do a 'laying on of hands' or whatever and some of the suggestible types will claim to be cured.....for awhile. This sounds like the same sort of stuff to me.

Charlie

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Cobweb
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quote:
Originally posted by Truthfinder:
**"Every person has their opinion. If I want to know about Spain, I'll ask someone who has actually been there. Getting directions from someone who has not been there is always risky."**

Exactly.

Tracy

Well, I want to know how to get to France because Pedro is about to jump from the Awful Tower.

He believes that Earth has no sorrow that Heaven cannot heal. He finally figured out why God gave man free will-so they could jump when they've had enough.

Nellypointis-will you catch him if I don't get there in time?

Thanks.
Cobby

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nellypointis
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quote:
Originally posted by Cobweb:Well, I want to know how to get to France because Pedro is about to jump from the Awful Tower.

Nellypointis-will you catch him if I don't get there in time?[/QB]

Cobby,

Sure, anything to please, but how will I know Pedro? You know he won't be alone, MANY people are queuing up to jump from the NOTawful Tower, I wouldn't want to catch an innocent jumper

Nelly (Paris-France)

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Cobweb
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It's okay- I learned that he forgot to take his sombrero off and got caught in an updraft . He was last seen headed for England.

It was a really big sombrero with a chin strap. He'll probably hook up with Mary Poppins and her umbrella.

She'll give him a spoonful of sugar to help the medicine go down.

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hardynaka
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Nelly, I did use Riamet and my babesia was back two weeks later. Not a big help. I did take the two weeks doxy after EM rash, and got very sick few weeks later.

I wanted desperately to find more abx that time, that's right, because of what I kept reading in Eurolyme and here.

I didn't find any doctor to treat me this way, when I finally found one (two, in fact), it was alternative. ART, yes.

My daughter took 5 weeks amoxy from the same day she got bitten, and in the end fell sicker than in the first week after bite. We shifted her treatment to alternatives ONLY, and she got better. Cured, in her case.

So we tried a few of the abx route (even if short, I agree), but stopped when I saw these were not giving us the results I wanted. And still causing me and my daughter GI candida, which is almost as nasty as borrelia to get rid of. No one here can deny that!

I still took 2 weeks of doxy after my recent reinfection, but doxy only was not helping much and I dropped it. Now I can get as much abx I want (because I found a nice physician). I still have a small collection here, just in case my herbs don't work anymore. Riamet included.

I only did short experiences with abx and I don't return to them long term because of the candida problem and because I found alternatives that for me seem to work better. So I don't NEED more abx!

My insurance would cover these abx, but it doesn't cover herbs. And I still do herbs instead, because I feel they work better without messing up my GI tract.

I DO find Eurolyme is a limited forum. One cannot post about alternatives that seem to work because it's taken for granted that they just can't work, according to their view. The same as what's happening to this thread.

97-99% of things I did that I felt were working, were not abx. Nor my daughter, even though she was longer than I on abx. We're both fine and totally functional. I don't attribute our success to abx at all. Not even 5%. Perhaps a 1-2% help?

ART is one of the most important parts of my healing story (and my daughter's). Homeopathy another. Herbs another very important part. Eletromagnetic current still another. It's a combo treatment that worked in our cases.

None of these modalities of treatment are 'acceptable' by Eurolyme. Of course, one can post there and get harrassed every time. Like here in this thread, people would doubt one's story, would say it's placebo effect etc.

Now you tell me your story! How many months (or years) are you in your route of choice? And how well you are now? With or without killers?

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lymebytes
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Well I can't say if this for real or not, but
a mind body connection? Who would have thunk it? [bonk]

This is simply about training the mind to heal the body. There are some good articles about the power of the mind.

Your mind is a powerful weapon in this disease, you don't really need others to train you how to use your mind, just start using it. I read once to lie in bed & right before sleep and picture your white cells destorying all bacteria in the body.

I doubt a miracle will take place, but 'a man is what he thinks' if you think you think sick, then you are. If you think like a well person, then you are giving power to yourself. Or go ahead and think negative and feel sorry for yourself and see how far you get.

The mind/body connection is real there is no argument there, it is possible to think yourself toward wellness.

SCOTT - Let us know how it works for you!

Dr. Burrascano said he could tell who would get well during the first office visit based on their attitude and the way they were thinking. If they felt sorry for themselves and had a why me attitude, he knew.

I have studied the power of the mind with disease and found some interestng links: http://www.truthaboutlymedisease.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=485

I can't and won't endorse anything unless it has worked for me personally and so far the only thing I can endorse is God, Biaxin and Amoxi and the power of my thinking. Better off not calling something a scam, unless you have proof,best to remain neutral in all situations until proof presents itself to you personally.

Columbus was the only one who said the world was round.

Take care.

--------------------
www.truthaboutlymedisease.com

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SForsgren
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I am currently in the program and though my results have not been as profound yet as some others in the group session, I have seen IRT work for people. I have seen a personal friend have intense herx reactions after each session as well as other friends that completed the program and felt very positive about it. I am not yet ready to say it works without a doubt and am still in the evaluation stage, but I do think people should be open to the possibility that it could be very helpful. Some of the people in my same session are having very positive results. I have physical changes after each session that I know are tied to the IRT - that alone is enough for me to know that it does something.

--------------------
Be well,
Scott

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CaliforniaLyme
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10 Minutes of research-
**************************

Allergy Alternatives is run by Gary Blier, correct? Yes.

In 1997 a man named Gary Blier was running a web page for injections of this miraculous substance that cured a variety of - no- not illnesses- not disease- not sicknesses- but same word- ailments!!! The whole page was about the body helaing itself with help of these miracle injections-

The doctor he was promoting was Dr, Milne Ongley who runs a clinic to this day in Mexico.

Dr. Ongley was banned from treating medicine in New Zealand and fled to Australia where he was arrested on New Zealand perjury charges. He was banned from the USA after it was found his solution had no medical benefit.

http://users.ids.net/~gnormy/#Where%20does%20Dr.%20Ongley%20practice%20and%20how

The guy who runs All Alt is Gary Blier who was the contact person and the main testimonial for the website-


FROM OLD WEB PAGE RUN BY GARY BLIER
WHO NOW RUNS ALLERGY ALT

Dr. MJ Ongley's avoid surgery for hips, knees, backs, & more...
Dr. Milne Ongley's, AVOID SURGERY, avoid hip replacement, knee replacement, avoid lamenectomy, avoid back surgery, cure carpal tunnel, sciatica, avascular necrosis, bone spurs, arthritis, osteo arthritis, and be PAINFREE WITHOUT SURGERY, DRUGS OR CHIROPRACTIC.

Medically proven, safe, and economical technologies exist for reversing damage to joints, muscles, ligaments, cartilage and tendons. Dr. M.J. Ongley (Ongley's proliferant solution) has advanced the field of Orthopedic Medicine to the degree that over 90% of all surgeries are unnecessary. The following maladies are candidates for his treatment: Whiplash, neck sprain/strain, herniated disks, bone spurs, sciatica, cervical disorders, frozen shoulder, bursitis, lost or damaged cartilage, rotator cuff problems, carpal tunnel, r.s.i, arthritis, tennis elbow, golfers elbow, and more! Even if you've had surgery and are still in pain (which is often the case), this technology can be of great benefit for you. If your x-rays indicate that you are well and you are still in pain, this is where to turn.

THIS PAGE IS PROVIDED BY A GRATEFUL PATIENT OF DR. MILNE ONGLEY.

Last Updated June 19, 1997 by Gary

202 A Partial List of Ailments That Qualify for This Therapy.

404 My Personal Medical Testimony

My name is Gary Blier. At the age of 42 (6', 195 lbs) I was in tough shape when I met Dr. Ongley. My problems started from the toes up. I was born with flat feet. I waddled when I walked. My two big toes had arthritis so badly, that I refused to go for leisure walks with my wife. I had stopped jogging years prior. I had thrown my back out at age 19 and, ever since, I've been careful to choose what I would and would not risk for fear of it going out again. Though I didn't complain, I would sleep with three pillows under or between my knees at night, trying to find comfort in order to sleep.

I had a severe case of carpal tunnel. I wore braces for six months, ate megadoses of ibuprofrin and only used my hands for the most necessary of things in order to avoid the surgery my doctor offered. It was terrible. I also had tennis and golfers elbow with arthritis there as well. If my elbow were to just touch the arm rests of my car, I got a jolt of pain. My chiropractor told me I had loose AC (shoulder) joints. If I picked up an empty briefcase, my shoulder would pop out. Very Painful! My neck was rigid. I could only look 20 degrees in either direction before my whole body would become involved. (Ankylosing spondylitis.)

I was in constant pain. I became worried about how I would feel at age 60 since I was already feeling like a decrepit 80 year old. I was concerned that I would not be able to work. How would I support my family if I couldn't even type or walk? Because of my inability to do even simple tasks for my young family, I became frustrated. When a family member is in pain - everyone suffers!

I am excited to report that I am pain free for the first time in 15 years! My health has returned because of Dr. Ongley and his medical techniques as outlined at this website. I don't even think about my pain anymore - except to notice that it is really not there anymore! It took me six months to even believe it. I can bend, type (obviously), walk, jog, run, lift things, play with my kids, carry in my wife's groceries, work out at the gym (even with free weights). I have regained the quality of my life! (It turns out my flat feet were the result of an underdeveloped ligament. It has since been strengthened by Dr. Ongley's solution and I even have arches (no more waddle walking!) I'm so happy!

I assure you that I had seen many, many other doctors of all branches of medicine; chiropractors, surgeons, podiatrists, neurologists, physical therapists... you name it...I'd been there. None helped enough to make a real difference. In Dr. Ongley's waiting room, I'd met about 80 other patients all with similar stories -many more dramatic than mine.

Beyond that, I've spoken with over 100 past patients of Dr. Ongley's by phone. I kept hearing the same miraculous stories told over and over. Knowing many would need more than my testimony, I began asking these folks if they would allow to me tape record these conversations. Several did. I have these tapes available for those who email me and request one. I am currently in the process of making a video tape which will be available in the near future.

Email: [email protected]

--------------------
There is no wealth but life.
-John Ruskin

All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer

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CaliforniaLyme
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He *is* the same man if you read his testimonial at lymefree.com- but he just says he was trained by the doc that saved him!!

This according to the former page was Dr. Ongley.

The former page says it was this miracle injection that did it.

The current page says nothing about injections.

--------------------
There is no wealth but life.
-John Ruskin

All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer

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CaliforniaLyme
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More from Gary Blier at current website with ***** added:

How can this fix everything?

It seems unreasonable.

It can't fix everything, but I understand the sentiment. Remember, this is not for critical care. It won't fix a broken bone.

I certainly agree it is hard to grasp that a process could heal so many things. It is because we are dealing at a foundational behavioral level.

**********************

If the body is fighting a peanut - and anaphylaxis results -
you can make it love the peanut.
*****************************
If your body fights ragweed, you can change its behavior. If your body isn't fighting a parasite, why not have it kill the thing? Got osteoporosis? Maybe you could convince your body to welcome in the calcium instead of filtering it out. These are all very different health conditions with the same foundational causes.


Traditional medicine's genetic approach to "immune system training" might work! And, why I think it won't.


Geneticists know the key to immunity is about the immune system's behavior. Though history it has been clear that everyone exposed to a disease does not contract the disease. I think the horror of AIDS brought the point home.


**************Some people simply don't get AIDS regardless of the needle they use. **************************************
What was seen as the difference between those who do and those who don't - the immune system's behavior!


Geneticists hope that by isolating the part of the genetic code responsible for immune behavior they will be able to convert it into a vaccine. They hope this vaccine, when injected into an AIDS victim, will change the immune response - and the victim will also become immune. Though I am certain some great things will come from this, I doubt it is going to work that way. Why?

Because it is a behavioral issue! We don't teach behavior by injection.


!!!!!!!

--------------------
There is no wealth but life.
-John Ruskin

All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer

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frakktured1
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I guess some of you have missed my saying that I did try this technique and found it to be a scam.

There were one or two others who had the same remarks.

So I don't understand how you pro scam artists can post that we did'nt try this thing?

Lymenet rule aside.

Is there nothing, anywhere, that protects we lymenetters against fraudulent claims?

I mean HELLO!

I tried it and it's a fraud! A Scam! No doubt about it.

So why is there even a discussion?

You pro scam folks are sure burnning your user names left and right!

Now before I am banned from this site for merely speaking the truth.

I call on the monitors to have these people investigated.
FBI,CIA,LDA,ILADS....anyone who is not on the side of lymenet adversaries.

Anyone, who is not an organization set on destroying help giving websites like this one.

Anyone, who is NOT on the pharm or steere payroll.

ANYONE?

FXD

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CaliforniaLyme
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LAST post- from LymeBlog (and baby is waking up-)
***************************************
LymeBlog - Users Journal

"I personally know three of the people who Gary Blier attached there names. They are both very angry that there names are attached to this company. Some have requested, even demanded that Gary Blier remove there names, ...

lymeblog.com/modules.php?name=Journal&file=display&jid=1060 - 65k -

--------------------
There is no wealth but life.
-John Ruskin

All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer

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frakktured1
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I forgot something very important so I just had to come back and let everyone know.

Like I said, I did try this lymefree thing and no,nada,nothing,

not one red cent, not a penny, not a farthing was ever sent to me!

so if you like losing your dough....they'll guarantee that...I can easily do the same.

I'll give you my address and please send it to me!

FXD

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ByronSBell 2007
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sue them for your money then...
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nellypointis
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Thanks stacks, Sarah! Now i hope this whole thing can be put to rest and we can get on with the real stuff, there(s plenty of work to be done without having to spend all this time and energy on these con-artists

Nelly

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motownlyme
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hiker53,

All I said was this didn't work for me and that I really wanted to believe it would work. I said that I was glad that others did have improvement.

I don't know how many people are in the office, but I have called the office and asked to speak to Celeste when the phone was answered by someone named Celeste and the voice was different from the person with whom I usually spoke. She told me and quote, " It must have been one of the other Celestes." There were others in the office not named Celeste and I apologize if I didn't make that clear.

Yes, it did make me skeptical that there were several Celestes. I did not see improvement. If others have, then wonderful. As I said in my previous post, you can get a free CD and info packet from them and make up your mind yourself.
I was just giving my experience.

My biggest concern now is that they if they aren't on the up and up, how secure is the very presonal information I put on my paperwork I sent before I started my first session?

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hiker53
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I like, Scott, will keep reporting on my experiences with IRT. As I said earlier I tried it last year and felt it did not work for me. However, when the owner offered it to me for free this year I thought I would give it another try and try it for a longer period of time.

If you don't want to try IRT, fine. All I ask is that you not put it down or be rude to the folks who have posted that it helped them.

It may not work for me, but since antibiotice only made me lose 30 pounds that I couldn't afford to lose and messed up my gut as well as gave me systemic yeast, I have turned to alternatives.

I honestly don't see very many people on this site who are cured or in remission from antibiotics that I know of (other than Lymetoo), but of course, I may be wrong about that as I don't know everyone and those who have been cured may have moved on.

I just wish everyone on this site would get well and I pray that every day. Peace. Hiker

--------------------
Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

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frakktured1
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It's because there is so much controversy, that there is not enough money, for research and

development, concerning these diseases that make
it necessary,for even good llmd's, to have a

shotgun or dart board approach at finding a
cure, or at least getting these diseases under control.

There have been court cases concerning this disease. However, our adversaries, know full well, how dibilitating this disease makes the plaintiffs, as well as how hard it is, due to inefficient, inaccurate testing and lack of research, to make a substantial case against them.

I would even wager, that these aforementioned reasons, are exactly what these IDSA and company people count most heavily on, to prove their cases.

They count on our own diseases keeping us just sick and apathetic enough that we have no fight in us for very long.

They count on the sick being out of work and thus out of money. Which we all know, makes the courts in this country go round.

It's most akin to the Dark Ages when the Church and Aristocracy made sure they kept the poor

humble masses uneducated. So they, the supposed elite, could keep these poor huddled ignorant masses under control.

They on the other hand have more money than they would ever need to keep any litigation in courtrooms for years on end which would suit there purposes just fine.

These cases would do nothing to further what is truly needed.
More money poured into TBD's for education,

research and development of tests,protocols,cures or at least worldwide recognition of a worldwide epidemic,

being kept a secret by the powerful rich in this world.

God help the elite(IDSA and CDC etc.,) if the surfs(the sick and underinsured and under represented), ever got educated!

I'm a relative success story. Believe me. Yet I'm far from cured.

At least I've come about as far as I can honestly and legally.

FXD

Post Script for Dcharb,
I was in on the phone conferences...this year as a matter of fact...still received NO MONEY!

I'm not debunking this con because it did'nt work for me....
I'm calling it what it is....so innocent sick people won't be taken in because they are desperate to get well again.

HEY how the hell did hell and damn squeeze thru the automatic censure???

[ 18. September 2007, 08:23 AM: Message edited by: frakktured1 ]

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Truthfinder
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Frakktured, if you actually lost money on this when you were promised a refund if it didn't work, then no wonder you call it a SCAM!! Gee, it really helps to have the WHOLE story......

Just because it didn't work doesn't mean it's a scam. It has helped too many others to be a fruitless endeavor.

Just curious.....

How did you approach them about getting your money back and what was their response?

Did you go beyond the 3 sessions?

I assume that their 'guarantee" was posted on their website when you started the sessions?

If they breached their own agreement, then at least report them to Consumer Affairs if you can't get relief from the company!

Tracy

[ 19. September 2007, 07:29 AM: Message edited by: Truthfinder ]

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�.

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Cobweb
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I think any treatment for Lyme Disease is a crapshoot.

Fortunately I feel like I'm winning the game right now with IV Rocephin.

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map1131
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hardynaka,lymebytes, and hiker53, to name a few, it is so great to see other lyme sufferers realize.....I'm in charge here (your health) and no doctor with a certificate knows how to cure me with abx. Therefore I'm in charge of my own health and I will do whatever I need to do to get my good health and life back.

I love what hiker53 wrote about the great Dr B's words on negative vs. positive patients. Seems like Dr B has met some Nelly's?

I don't have any experience with lymefree and my first instinct was scam but.....5 yrs ago I SOB many post by skyking about rife for days, weeks and then finally one day I sat crying on lymenet about this horrible illness and where did I need to turn, because abx after 3+ yrs wasn't getting it. Thank God, I was willing to look outside the box that day.

Pam

--------------------
"Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill

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oxygenbabe
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I googled Dr. Milne Ogley. Interesting guy with a very checkered past who now works in Mexico and major sports figures go down to get his treatment which is simply prolotherapy, using a fairly strong solution. Prolotherapy is widely known and a doctor I see uses it on sports injuries. There are weak and strong solutions but they stimulate healing of joints and tendons.

Meanwhile what can ANYone say about lyme it is a total mystery why some take 2 weeks of antibiotics and go on with their life, and others are sick for years or indefinitely why some herx and others don't why some get better slowly but surely and others spend years on antibiotics and don't why someone on here, says his wife was herxing and making no progress on orals so her doc put her on 50 mg of IV rocephin (compared to 1000 mg the usual dose) and she is improving. I can't even FIGURE OUT the biology of improving on 50 mg or 1/20th the normal dose if we know that someone else like sarah took full dose for 9 months.

I can't figure it out myself even when I put my thinking cap on and ponder all the variables I simply can't. I guess it's a matter of multiple bugs, multiple strains, varied genetics and as yet some unknown. Such as the microfilarial worms or a modified polio virus or SOMETHING nobody knows yet that is synergistic with the other bugs and makes a much worse case of lyme OR something very specific in certain genetics that reacts very badly to lyme or one of the other bugs.

I'm willing to try stuff that doesn't harm. I did do one treatment that harmed 4 days of salt/c and I think THOSE people are psychopaths who should be prosecuted. Lots of people around the country had adverse effects. If the worst that happens is you don't get better & there's a money back guarantee, its relatively harmless either way. But if some people ARE getting better why is that. Whatever power they're harnessing if even their own brains that's interesting. People say John of God is a scam (Joao de Deus) but some people had miraculous recoveries. As Mehmet Oz said if they tapped into their own healing powers through faith we need to know that.

I have no answers.

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Jellybelly
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Sometimes people forget how powerful the POWER OF SUGGESTION is. Then when you add in that GOD is suggesting this, the suggestion goes off the charts.

Scott mentioned people experiencing a herx. There are people who will experience a herx off off a sugar pill. There are people who claim a cure from a healing minister in a church too.

For the moment they make actually believe they are cured, but in reality it is merely the mind wanting so much to be well and willing the body to feel well. Almost always symptoms eventually return and people are as sick as they ever were. That is a fact.

Sure every once in a blue moom someone actually might really seem to get well, but people that is NOT THE NORM. There is nothing in God's word that indicates he is involved in curing people like this "today".

I absolutely believe that faith in God is critical and I do lean on him to help me cope with my health and not give up despite it. But when I read about hearing a sequence of #s and imagining rubbing myself on the back 7 times, well.....it gave me my first chuckle of the morning.

Then I felt kind of disheartened that people continue to use something like this on people who have such a strong faith in God and are sick that they will try just about anything, that just about anyone claiming to come in God's name would suggest in order to get well. They are even willing to PAY for it.

Yes, Jesus did heal people, but if you remember he did it for FREE!!! [shake] Anyone who charges for a service that would have been given for FREE from God is kind of disgusting.God gives freely, he doesn't need the money nor should anyone who comes in God's name.

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nellypointis
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Shouldn't we feel collectively ashamed that this "topic" (if this is indeed a topic) has got over 85 posts when the post about Dr Jemsek is barely being discussed?

Nelly (in France)

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oxygenbabe
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Okay I know this will be controversial but:
What does it mean when a 41 year old woman dies while under aggressive abx treatment and another has repeated catheter infections after 17 months of IV treatment?
Isn't that something that should be looked into?
There is a happy medium and the LLMD's that are careful such as Dr. L in NY and Dr. H etc, I've never heard of this happening under their care. I send people to either of them IF THEY WANT abx.
Frankly I don't like some of the more aggressive "LLMD's" and think they do harm some folks.
I'm not sure that much abx is good for anybody and certainly some people will get much sicker on it.

So what is wrong with discussing a money-back-guaranteed treatment that might be hocum pocum but isn't harming anyone?

I don't personally want to discuss abx treatments even what some consider "low dose" is too high dose for me. I'm glad Nellie's better (I assume she is?) but I don't want to know from Adam about what she took because I will *never* take even 1/10th of what she took.
And it isn't because I wasn't horribly sick. I got a hyperbaric chamber instead and do IV glutathione and IVIG etc.
Meanwhile I am *very* interested in what Selma did becuase it worked for her and I think I could tolerate some herbs.
And i might as well listen to a CD and some codes it couldn't hurt and as I found from my recent experience with homeopathy, the world is stranger than I ever thought.

Why don't we stick to letting others know what helps US and what doesn't help US personally and stop throwing stones at what we perceive to be others' glass houses.

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nellypointis
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quote:
Originally posted by oxygenbabe:
[QB] I'm glad Nellie's better (I assume she is?) but I don't want to know from Adam about what she took because I will *never* take even 1/10th of what she took.

Nelly's better than she would be had she not taken abx AND various herbals and alternative treatments.

But Nelly has been horribly sick for a VERY long time and she was close to death several times and I won't even bother telling you what she took, not to "be better" but to save her life!!!

And so far she has managed to stay alive, that in itself is quite an achievement, believe me!

Selma, has only been sick for a short time and from what I can tell, and so have you, J, compared to me, you were both bitten in an era when it was KNOWN that tick-bites were dangerous so you were able to act quickly, now, you choose whatever suits you, I am not judging that, but I do strongly object to Selma's sligh remark and yours, about "Nelly being better".

One last thing: Nelly uses every alternative treatment she thinks will be of help, so the dichotomy is not as you make out, btwn herbal treatment (soft, clever, open, sophisticated etc) and abx treatment(harsh, mainstream, toxic unrefined etc), the dichotomy is btwn PATHETIC SCAMS that are attempting to fool sick people and everything else which might work.

I think those scam/con artists are the ones we should be weary of, I know YOU are smart enough to not fall for scams but think of the people who are new to this or too, too sick to even think! They're the people the scam bags are after, not you or me J.

Nelly
PS Artemisinin is probably the HARDEST TREATMENT I have taken

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oxygenbabe
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Nelly, actually getting treatment "early" didn't help me at all because two doctors, my own and an infectious disease "expert" REFUSED to test me for babesia that summer which was surely complicating the case inordinately. I had a feeling I must have babesia, just good instincts I suppose. My own doc refused saying "I'm not going to put you on mepron so why test you for babesia" (his reasoning being I guess that mepron was a tough drug) and the infectious disease expert agreed to and then even worse drew my blood and just re-tested it for lyme which was stupid as I'd had the bullseye, a positive Elisa and a positive western blot. So my early treatment was useless and made me worse (ruined my digestion and made my fungus situation horrible). I was totally horribly ill and I'd probably be dead or close to it if I didn't go alternative. It took about 2 or 3 years to get someone to run an Igenex fish test for me on babesia.

I'm really glad you saved your own life. I understand you're not "well" yet.

But whatever methods *we* use to avoid dying or death, it doesn't mean others can or should use those methods.

We're all individual.

We all have such "selective" perception. I know a hyperbaric chamber facility where the guy who runs it has *never* seen any eye problems with hyperbaric when I know my own and others' eyes have changed with deep dive hyperbaric--permanently.

I know people on abx who have *never* seen anybody get into permanent remission without them...and folks on herbs who are convinced abx never fully gets anybody well etc etc.

It depends on what helped us and failed us. We seem to see the whole world of "lyme" through our own framework which is just too narrow as we are each one person, or even on lists (internet) we attract those of like minds and get mad at or repel those who think differently.

I wish there were more research. I stumbled across some articles I'd printed out on apicoplasts and drugs to target them (specifically malaria but babesia has them too). The research doesn't seem to have gone anywhere. It's an ideal way to target these bugs. I wish there were more Eva Sapi's PhD's who are looking in the tickgut to see what the heck is in there. Etc etc etc etc.

But I really think alternative methods work sometimes. Peter Alex a German homeopath writes of some cases of chronic lyme that indeed he "cured"

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nellypointis
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quote:
But whatever methods *we* use to avoid dying or death, it doesn't mean others can or should use those methods.
I don't think this is the point here, I never preach for this or against that as long as there is a chance it might be even semi-kosher, but when the scams are coming thick and fast, like they did on here AND on EL, and I had to deal with their assaults right in my own email box after I had banned them, then YES I strongly object to this crap.

I never objected to anything you chose to try, or anybody else for that matter, and as I keep saying I DO use alternative therapies myself, so it isn't a case of abx vs alternative as long as it's not an insult to my intelligence, and when the pushers don't come on worse than a flock of secondhand car salesmen

Nelly

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hiker53
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Nelly,

I honestly believe no one is trying to push anyone into using IRT. I certainly am not. I think some people who were helped by IRT got overzeolous with their postings, but their intentions were not bad.

As I said before, I tried it for awhile last year and it didn't seem to help much. I am trying it again now, so I will keep you updated.

Laser therapy has helped me the most, but is the least accessible to me.

Meanwhile, I wish you speedy healing with whatever method you choose (and if something works, please let us know!). Peace. Hiker

--------------------
Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

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Truthfinder
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You know, this topic would have come and gone by is itself if not for some who love to stir the pot with inflammatory statements and references to ``faerie dust''. Medicine that you don't understand is still medicine.

And speaking of Dr. J. in NC, who is viewed as a `rebel' or an `outlaw' or a downright `quack' in his own right within many orthodox medical circles.......... perhaps we can take some of his exact words to heart here.......

.....Scientific truth and dogma tend to part ways very quickly. He who holds rigid to a belief and is inflexible will soon be proven wrong .

I have seen the evolution of a medical standard happen countless times over the past 23 years in HIV medicine, so much so that I learned not to hold on to any precept for more than a few months, knowing that it would soon change .....

My life changing experience in HIV/AIDS taught me several lessons, the most important of which was to learn to practice the humility necessary to appreciate what we don't understand about medicine .

...... generational change of the practice and standards in medicine is predictable and sometimes dramatic. And so, in my view, knowing what you don't know, that is ... an appreciation for the search of the profound and undiscovered, is more important than what you may know .....

If we don't know what's wrong with the patient, we tend to blame the patient. Any action which undermines the opportunity of the patient to be heard, to have quality care, and the right to free liberty and choice in their treatment is an objectification of the patient. This is inherently immoral .......

Tracy

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�.

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oxygenbabe
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Thanks Truthfinder. Very well stated.

Hiker--what kind of laser therapy? Is that the laser therapy Gigi mentioned and that is practiced by Cowden and others? If I've missed posts I'm curious can you let us know what it did for you?

Nelly, I wish you well sorry they invaded your list...probably you can leave it alone on lymenet for now? [Eek!]

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frakktured1
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In Answer to anyone who forgot,

Nal asked "has anyone TRIED this??"

I answered. Therefore, I must have "TRIED" the procedure, she was inquiring about.

For those making the accusation that it "did'nt work for me" and that's why I call it a scam I can only say this.

I tried this awhile back when others here were trying it, or so they said, as an ivestigation of its affectiveness only.

They were supposed to get back to this board but at least one is not here anymore and the others have posted on this thread in favor of this procedure.

I felt I could give an honest and intelligent assesment of their procedure. Con or not.

I have done just that. It's a con.

I did this for the sake of those who are new here and are really sick and are searching for answers to their befuddled minds and sick bodies.

I did it because there was a time when I was a whole lot sicker than I am now. Thanks to Dr B and ILADS and Fallon, I'm much better.


I was so sick then that I believed a psychic faith healer in the vein of EDGAR CAYCE could indeed help me.

At least she said she could and she was a practicing registered nurse at the same time.

I lost about 200 dollars.

When I got some of my mind back as a result of IV antibiotics and orals over a couple of years.

I realized how desperate I had become and wished this never, to happen to anyone else, as sick as this disease can make us. Like I was then.


I decided I would try my best to give nothing but my best, personally experienced, advice, to those who honestly need just that.

NOT SCAMS or CONS or SNAKE OILS.

And I would'nt comment on anything I did'nt try first.

Some of the people who have posted in favor of the claims this website makes, have asked me questions, too knowledgefull of this scam.

Knowledge they would only have gained, by being, in fact, part and parcel to this scam.

To those people I say, you should be ashamed of yourselves. But then again, your interests are'nt the same as mine, now are they?

Don't answer...its a rhetorical question....(one that requires no answer).

Now there's one guy in particular that uses the same font as a guy by the name of JRWAGNER,

who was supposedly going to get back to this board with his assessment of some other "potion" of something like, nanosilver, if memory serves.

I have'nt seen him back with his assessment!
However he'll probably show up soon. But that's a different scam.

Perhaps perpetrated by the same con artists at the same post office address.

But it does'nt belong here. This threads question was asked long ago and answered long ago.

FXD

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charlie
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Actually JR did show back up and comment on his free nanosilver trial...

------------------------------------------------------
JRWagner
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posted December 26, 2006 11:12 AM
Hello everyone!

Tony and others...if you remember correctly, I posted info on the website that would chart Nutrasilver users progress. www.morgellons.com

My own observations are that 10 days of NutraSilver did nothing...but as Tracy said, 10 days of anything is not enough. Russell did offer me a very good deal on more bottles just to see if a longer course with higher dosage would work, but money is funny right now so I declined.

Hell, the damn ABX are not working either...I am also taking Mepron (was positive for Babesia IgG in the past) and the expense of the stuff is crazy...especially since I do not feel better after three months (also using Biaxin).

The overwhelming fatique at all hours of the day is what really gets to me...and the numbness and tingling in my hands...weakness in my shoulders, etc. Pehaps it IS now autoimmune...who knows?

Peace, Love and Wellness,
JRW
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------------------------------------------------------

I corresponded with him a bit after that trying to think of anything I tried that he might find useful...but he'd exhausted everything I knew of by then.

I have no idea what happened to him since.

Charlie

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Truthfinder
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Gee, Cave, thanks for editing your previous post to eliminate the reference to this treatment as so much ``faerie dust''. [Big Grin]

To clarify - Note web definitions of ``scam'': A ploy by a shyster to raise money; a fraudulent business scheme; a deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.

Nelly and others, stating that this treatment is a scam - as though it were a proven fact - is the equivalent of presenting ``knowingly false'' information, which is another violation of the forum rules. It is your OPINION that this is a scam - nothing more. Please state it as such since it is not a fact.

Although many on this board believe that long-term antibiotics are actually suppressive and harmful to the body, they do not go around this board chasing after all the abx threads yelling ``SNAKE OIL! SHYSTERS! I TRIED IT - IT DOESN'T WORK!! I TRASHED MY LIVER THANKS TO ABX AND SO WILL YOU!'' Of course not!! Most are smart enough and thoughtful enough to realize that they can't attribute their personal experience to everyone else.

So far, we haven't heard from enough people who have tried the IRT treatment to know very much about how well it works or how often it works for people. And we won't know that until more people try it - financially risk free!!

And what I keep wondering....... if there were any real, hard evidence that this was a scam, wouldn't all of you be contacting the BBB or Consumer Affairs or SOMETHING to protect the less-perceptive victims out there? Why aren't you doing that?

Frakktured, you didn't join this board until last month, and yet you say you have been here for a long time...... I hope you are not the reincarnation of Tony Z because we all know that Tony 1) didn't pay a dime for his `trial' of IRT, and 2) that Tony was not open-minded enough to give IRT a fair shot.

And may I remind you that JRWAGNER wasn't scammed either - he got all of his product for free. It didn't work in 10 days - he lost nothing. No scam. It simply proved that it didn't help him within 10 days. Period.

That aside, perhaps you could answer my questions posed on Page #2 here?

If you were relieved of your money in violation of this website's guarantee, I will be more than happy to contact the website on your behalf and ask WHY you never received the promised refund when it didn't work for you. I don't want to see anybody `scammed', and that seems to be your premise here, right? (Note web definitions of ``scam'': A ploy by a shyster to raise money; a fraudulent business scheme; a deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.)

I am willing to help do what I can to make sure you are `made whole'. Let's keep these people out there honest..... after all, you are being honest, right? If so, then let's get your money back!!!

Thanks, Charlie, for bringing up that thread of JRW's - I could not remember what he has said about it.

Tracy

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�.

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