LymeNet Home LymeNet Home Page LymeNet Flash Discussion LymeNet Support Group Database LymeNet Literature Library LymeNet Legal Resources LymeNet Medical & Scientific Abstract Database LymeNet Newsletter Home Page LymeNet Recommended Books LymeNet Tick Pictures Search The LymeNet Site LymeNet Links LymeNet Frequently Asked Questions About The Lyme Disease Network LymeNet Menu

LymeNet on Facebook

LymeNet on Twitter




The Lyme Disease Network receives a commission from Amazon.com for each purchase originating from this site.

When purchasing from Amazon.com, please
click here first.

Thank you.

LymeNet Flash Discussion
Dedicated to the Bachmann Family

LymeNet needs your help:
LymeNet 2020 fund drive


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations.

LymeNet Flash Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » all this talk of abx's!?!?

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: all this talk of abx's!?!?
DG
Member
Member # 13596

Icon 1 posted      Profile for DG         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I first viewed this site last night and was compelled to share my experience with lyme. I don't have it, but my wife does.
She contracted the disease in 98 and went for at least 2 yrs. undetected. This was long before we ever met. She shared with me the trials, tribulation, and treatment that she went through until she felt she was healed 3 yrs. ago.
She took all sorts of abx's orally and IV unto near death. The effects of this disease nearly destroyed her physically, emotionally, and spiritually.

We were married about 9 months when she had a tooth infection and had to be put on a z-pack. You know what happened next. She's been ill ever since.
I took her to every kind of doctor, even the LLMD in the midwest and he put her on yet another abx protocol (5 different abx's total). Also he prescribed nystatin and diflucan for her yeast and suggested a good probiotic.

She couldn't even finish the first one as these made her so sick! I'm not talking about the herxing either.
It totally disabled her immune system and she caught every virus that came her way plus the yeast was, and still is, out of control!!!
I wondered which was going to destroy her faster: The abx's or the antibiotics??????
I began to do more intense research to find alternative ways of dealing with this dreadful disease, and I found some info. I felt we just had to try and now I'm sharing it with you.
I told my wife NO MORE ABX'S!!! I started her on the salt/vit.C protocol.I'm sure you've heard of it, but just in case, go to lymephotos.com and do the research. It's easy and it's inexpensive and most importantly, it worked!!!
Not only did she herx, I saw the parasites, and bacteria, that she was ridding herself of, right before my eyes!!
We used 18 grams of sodium cloride(in tablet form) and 18 grams of vit.C per day for about 2 weeks. This is the maximum recommended dosage and one has to work up to this dosage.
She is taking about 4 days off to concentrate on detoxing and then we will start on Mesosilver @ 4 tbs. per day.
The detox protocol I currently have her on is nothing more than distilled water, ionic foot baths (2 or 3 per week), and dead sea salt baths.
No more nystatin or diflucan!!!(does anybody's
liver hurt?) We've replace that with Candex and a good quality acidophillus.
If the Candex doesn't do the trick, we'll go with 3-lok or 5-lok for the yeast. I'm obviously not a dr., but I'm sorry,
I just can't sit back, watch my wife lose her health, her sanity, and her life with all of these drugs that these dr.'s are prescribing when there are homeo's out there in their purest form
that work!!!!!!!!
I know some of these are expensive, but please, go to lymephotos.com and do the research. As I stated earlier, they're not all expensive and they work. God bless......

[ 21. October 2007, 07:30 PM: Message edited by: DG ]

Posts: 14 | From Meriden, Ks. | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Freethinker
Member
Member # 13002

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Freethinker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thankx for the info, heading there to check it
out.

Hope your wife is doing better!

[Smile]

--------------------
Stop Lyme Cryme!

-Data Over Dogma
Evidence Over Egos
Patients Over Politics.
-EJ Masters

Peer Observations Magazine

Posts: 40 | From Southern Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
dontlikeliver
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4749

Icon 1 posted      Profile for dontlikeliver     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks for sharing that.

You might want to do a search on Lymenet for Salt/C and you will see there has bee a LOT of discussion of it here, both from a few who said it helped and others who developed serious health problems from doing it.

The doc in the midwest you are probably referring to has helped a lot of people get well, with antibiotics.

Posts: 2824 | From The Back of Beyond | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Truthfinder     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks very much for the post, DG. Sounds like your wife is very lucky to have you around.

I'm all for alternative methods of getting well since abx don't work for everyone and some people can't tolerate them or can't afford LLMDs, etc. It's just a fact.

As dontlikeliver said, though, we have had mixed reports here on the Salt/C protocol, so just be very careful out there, okay? It is certainly not without some risk involved.

Also, you said:
***``when there are homeo's out there in their purest form that work!!!!!!!!''***
None of what you described in your post would be considered `homeopathic' - homeopathy is completely different system of medicine with its own remedies. Perhaps an appropriate term would be `holistic substances' or `natural products' rather than ``homeo's''. (Just thought I'd clarify that for you.) [Smile]

Thanks again for your post.

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�.

Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
dontlikeliver
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4749

Icon 1 posted      Profile for dontlikeliver     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Homeopathy means treating like with like (in a minute dilution), and it does work for some things, but in my experience, not for Lyme disease.

Isopathy is treating identical with identical, again in a minute dilution.

Posts: 2824 | From The Back of Beyond | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Truthfinder     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Your descriptions of homeopathy and isopathy are correct, dll.

And I'm learning more about why some people don't have good results with homeopathy for Lyme and other chronic diseases...... I'm still learning but perhaps if I get bored this winter, I will post about some of what I have learned.

I believe there IS an answer, and that the news is good.... many modern homeopaths are missing or forgetting a very fundamental homeopathic principal when treating chronic diseases. Incorporating this basic principal is usually essential with long-standing Lyme or anything else..... but this principal is not being stressed enough in today's schools and in homeopathic practice. I'm a bit stunned to discover this, but better late than never....

Just realize this: Homeopaths are just like orthodox medical doctors. Some are like LLMDs, and some are like ducks. [lol]

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�.

Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
onthemend
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 13454

Icon 1 posted      Profile for onthemend     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi DG, wish I believed we could rule out ANY possible path to 'curing' or ameliorating Lyme. But I don't think so. Different things work for different people, and that's one of the best things about this site. You can hear and learn about all of it.

I would never take abx out of my possible tools kit, or homeo, or natural remedies, or healthy lifestyle, or anything. This disease is too protean - too individualized - too poorly understood - to entirely dismiss any approach that has helped many people.

It's interesting to hear your wife's experience with the abx - I'm not too thrilled with taking abx longterm, and will be adding homeo starting next week, with an eye to eventually going that route entirely. But I also can tell you that doxy saved my life.

Good Luck with all you're trying, & best wishes for the future health of your wife. It's great to have someone so actively involved in finding a treatment protocol that works for the Lyme patient.

otm

Posts: 314 | From east coast | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935

Icon 1 posted      Profile for 5dana8   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi DG

I am so sorry to hear about your wife. I hope you can find something that works for her & she can feel better soon. I take alot of natural supps for yeast. You might want to do a search here on that. There are tons of information on natural approaches.

Right now I am taking monolaurian & coconut milk. Alot of people use coconut oil but I can't stomach the oil. It works for virus's as well . Same with olive leaf extract. I take one 2XD.

Also Pau D Arco tea has helped. And garlic as well. But most important I eat no sugar very low carbs. If you do a search of lymetoo she puts up good advise about a anti-yeast diet.

If you go back & break up your post ~ go up & hit the edit button ~ ( hit enter every 2 or 3 sentences you will amy get more responces. Some neuro lymies here can't read long blocks of type, including myself ( but I am having a clear morning).

Good luck to you & your wife I eill keep you both in my thoughts & prayers [group hug]
Dana


none of the above is medical advise...just my 2 cents

--------------------
5dana8

Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831

Icon 1 posted      Profile for oxygenbabe     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Glad your wife is better, but shocked to see how much salt you've put her on.

People have had serious damage at far lower doses. Permanent cardiac damage. After only four days I seriously injured my kidneys and was debilitated for many months. I still have to be very careful of my kidneys and can't do my normal IV vitamin/mineral therapy which is in isotonic saline. Before that, never a problem.

I've emailed and spoken with people who, on much lower doses than your wife is taking: ended up in bed for two months with edema and adrenal problems; had seizures; ended up hypothyroid from the salt chelating out iodine; ended up with terrible kidney pain; heart arrhtyhmias you name it. I was even PM'ed here by one lyme patient whose doctor told him somebody on the protocol *died*.

Please be careful.

Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lymetoo
Moderator
Member # 743

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Lymetoo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Sounds a little like a commercial to me too....but I hope your wife continues to improve.

A few notes:

"The abx's or the antibiotics?" ABX IS antibiotics.

Nystatin does NOT affect the liver.

"It totally disabled her immune system and she caught every virus that came her way .."

Most Lyme patients catch very few bugs and viruses going around. A weird glitch of our immune systems.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

Posts: 96063 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
johnlyme1
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 7343

Icon 1 posted      Profile for johnlyme1     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Isopathy is treating identical with identical, again in a minute dilution. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Dontlike,
To be more specific about isopathics: Isopathics are the lowest form of the given microb, often called the endobiont, which in this form are not pathogenic, but act on the higher scale of the pathogenic, trasnforming them back to the benign form. Concentrations of the isopathics are increased in strength throughout treatment as the patient adapts to the original pathogenic form being conveted. Isopathics also change the orignal pathogenic bug to where the body can then remove it.

Posts: 582 | From milwaukee wi | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
dontlikeliver
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4749

Icon 1 posted      Profile for dontlikeliver     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi Johnlyme,

Yes, that is the theory, at least.

I went to a clinic where I had isopathic treatment for about 2 years prior to discovering my illness was Lyme. My concentrations went up to something like 1 million.

The day I was declared cured there as their machine could not detect any more pathogens in me, I actually felt worse than when I first set foot in the place.

Not only that, but I asked them to test me for Lyme more than once and was told "you don't have that".

People came from all over the world to see these people and frankly the few I know who went also did not get well.

Prior to that I had gone for several months to another highly recommended homeopath...but after a while he just threw his arms up and didn't know what to do with me. Needless to say, I didn't get well or even better there either.

However, on the other hand, once I had very bad symmetrical hives (probably a lyme flare) and that did respond almost instantly to homeopathic treatment from a local homeopath.

Posts: 2824 | From The Back of Beyond | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686

Icon 1 posted      Profile for SForsgren         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Salt/C has been useful for many people. I personally was not able to tolerate it due to blood pressure problems. I am aware of some people that have the support of their LLMDs in using Salt/C as part of their recovery. As with anything, do your own research and work with your doctor on whether or not it is a viable option. I don't support discounting it as has been suggested earlier in this thread.

--------------------
Be well,
Scott

Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
roro
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 13383

Icon 1 posted      Profile for roro     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I did natural therapies for about 5 years, and it kept the disease under control but never cured it. IV vitamin C, supplements, etc. with all the money I spent I could have paid for LLMD many times over.
Posts: 615 | From maryland | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
just don
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1129

Icon 1 posted      Profile for just don     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi DG,

I wanted to stop by and say howdy, I am probably your closest neighbor on here!! I live a couple hundred miles NORTH of you!!

For years I read and read on salt and C. I almost started doing just that. ALL I read was positive,,specially on THAT site.

I was relieved to find that not ALL info was so positive. There were nay sayers and those that were harmed, temp and permanently!!

Until a recent thread on it HERE I thought ONLY good can come from it,,,I got educated quickly!! I didnt realize ALL info on that other site was monitored and positive response is ALL that is allowed to exist there!!

In fact somebody responded to the guy that runs it and was ridiculed because they didnt do it ,,,right!!

Myself I love salt and cant seem to get enough. My body doesnt seem able to keep enough of it in. I agree that not ALL people can exist with the reduced amounts of salt in todays diet compared to days of old,,,ham curing,,,food preservation etc.

nothing worse tasting than a sweet tasting ham,,,yuck,,like somebody dumped it full of sugar,,,Ham is sposed to taste salty.

strange observation for "ME". taking a salt tab at bed time makes me sleep like a rock,,,better than even Ambien. Even a real salty supper does same thing. Anyone that has a GUESS as to why this happens??

If you are dark skinned, live indoors 100% of time in AC comfort,,never sweat or work outdoors,,,maybe reduced salt is somethng of merrit for you,,,if opposite,,,maybe NOT!!!

Any time you can feel your body respond to something as simple as salt,,,you HAVE to respect!! may be geographicly linked to 'something'!!

AND I do believe,for what its worth, that we do have MORE parasites than USA docs THINK we do!! maybe NOT the devastating ones of some countries!! Do a search on people doing ivermectin!! Might be another avenue for parasite detox!!

Just READ and be informed on the salt and c deal,,,I went 2-3 years uninformed of the 'right' info!!
welcome aboard DG,,,glad to have a neighbor herebouts!!still--just don--

--------------------
just don

Posts: 4548 | From Middle of midwest | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DG
Member
Member # 13596

Icon 1 posted      Profile for DG         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
thanks for correcting me on homeo's, think ya'll knew what I meant though. Tough crowd, "rip off alert?" WOW, WAS I SELLING SOMETHING? DO THEY SELL SOMETHING ON LYMEPHOTOS.COM?
Yes, I've seen the parasites and bacterial colonies pass through the system in stools, urine,
through the tongue, ears, etc. This was after the salt/c protocol.
I'm a passionate person who cares about people,
just tryin to help out. But I know beyond a shadow of a doubt what I've lived through, what my wife has suffered through, and the fact is, that lyme co-infection parasites will protect and provide shelter for lyme bacteria. They work together and feed off of each other and will NOT be destroyed by antibiotics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
After hundreds of trips to every kind of dr.,
I've been told all sorts of things about my bride
that aren't true. Even my parents don't believe that their's anything wrong with her.
I know they're wrong and I'm not going to stop until I'm dead or she's comepletely well!!!!!!!
God Bless...........

Posts: 14 | From Meriden, Ks. | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831

Icon 1 posted      Profile for oxygenbabe     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
DG:

This thread should help you:

http://www.tiny.cc/utBZW

In addition, your wife has only been on it a short time.

Bacteria are too small to see in excretions. I don't know what you're seeing but it's not bacteria.

Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552

Icon 1 posted      Profile for TerryK     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks for sharing your story. I have many family members who are very sick and do not have the money to see an LLMD and I am looking to help them. I can barely manage to pay for my own treatment so I can't afford to fly them out of State to see a lyme doctor not to mention the cost of appointments, drugs, tests etc..

The alternative for some people without help from an LLMD is horrible suffering until death OR some help with alternative treatments.

Your wife is very lucky to have someone as devoted to her as you are. Great job of getting her the help she needs.

Good luck and check in from time to time and let us know how things are going. Many of us really appreciate the feedback.

Terry

Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
CherylSue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13077

Icon 1 posted      Profile for CherylSue     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Regarding a doctor in the Midwest, I just recently came back from my first visit with Dr. C. He gave me an excellent prognosis with treatment using ABX.

On the 5th day of my amoxicillin ( I was only able to reach 1/2 dosage of 500mg 4xdaily) I herxed and had to stop a bit. I hope to resume even more slowly.

Is Dr. C considered a good doctor? Is he the "best in the Midwest?" He's actually in Missouri.

Just wondering?

CherylSue

Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
hiker53
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 6046

Icon 1 posted      Profile for hiker53     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Dr. C is considered an excellent doctor. While he usually chooses antibiotics therapies, he willng to use alternative therapies as well. He had no problems with me using rife when antibiotics failed and no problems with me trying the salt/C protocol. Rife helped; the salt/C did not.

He also said if laser therapy helped, then to go for it, because it was obvious that antibiotics were not helping me and at the rate I was losing weight and getting yeast infections he really did not want me on them for awhile.

Hiker

--------------------
Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

Posts: 8244 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DG
Member
Member # 13596

Icon 1 posted      Profile for DG         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks for all of the feedback and for the threads to further educate me. I know most of you are much more educated about all of this stuff than I am. I'm not even sick.
However, my soulmate
is and she's not able to even think well enough for herself to treat on her own. She's been a RN
for about 15 yrs., so together we're gonna do this.
I can certainly understand your sceptisism about everything as this disease is so "case by case".
I also understand that ANY type of treatment for this disease poses great health risks and should be taken seriously.
I'm telling you all what is working and what is not.
In response to the idea that you cannot see the bacteria, I disagree. The bacteria, morphs, from stage to stage in maturity and forms colonies that CAN be seen.
Also, don't forget the parasites,that can also be seen. Ever seen ring worms? These and many others can certainly been seen with the naked eye.
I'm just a simple minded farmer/shift worker who would like to share our experiences in hopes that someone will benfit as I have from yours. You guys are great!!
God Bless........

Posts: 14 | From Meriden, Ks. | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lily
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 13158

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Lily     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I visited Dr. C a few weeks ago. I came up from Florida. I thougth he ws a caring, well-informed doctor. His prognosis was excellent and his confidence was reassuring.

Lily

Posts: 219 | From Florida | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lymetoo
Moderator
Member # 743

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Lymetoo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by CherylSue:
Is Dr. C considered a good doctor? Is he the "best in the Midwest?"

Yes...but then...I'm prejudiced! [Wink]

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

Posts: 96063 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
minimonkey
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 8693

Icon 1 posted      Profile for minimonkey     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Just to set the record straight... bacteria are microscopic! You cannot see them with the naked eye, and the photos that are on that website are bizarre, to say the least. They bear no resemblance whatsoever to the organisms they purport to represent.

Certainly one can see colonies of , say, mold... and perhaps bacterial growth colonies are similarly visible.

Salt/C is a controversial protocol. It certainly does seem to produce anti-parasitic results in many people... (I tried it but didn't stick with it very long.) Dr. K, a respected Dr., uses it for deworming patients. As for killing Lyme itself, I think the jury is still out. Parasites *do* act synergistically with lyme, though, so getting rid of those would be helpful to overall healing.

--------------------
"Looks like freedom but it feels like death..
It's something in between, I guess"

Leonard Cohen, from the song "Closing Time"

Posts: 822 | From California | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
minimonkey
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 8693

Icon 1 posted      Profile for minimonkey     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Oh, I forgot to add... "ring worms" are not worms at all -- the ring shape is caused by a fungal infection in the skin (and actually is often a lyme rash, misdiagnosed... that was my actual experience!)

That said, certainly many parasites *are* large enough to see with the naked eye. Ever wormed a pet? You can definitely see parasites in the stool. Same is true for humans....

--------------------
"Looks like freedom but it feels like death..
It's something in between, I guess"

Leonard Cohen, from the song "Closing Time"

Posts: 822 | From California | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DG
Member
Member # 13596

Icon 1 posted      Profile for DG         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
minimonkey,
Your analogy to pets is exactly right. Ringworms was a poor example. However, as a farmer, I have dewormed cattle, hogs, cats, and dogs and the point is: Yes, parasites can be seen with the naked eye.
Removal of them from all of our bodies is obviously beneficial for all of us!
Lymetoo,
My experience with our LLMD has been overall a good one. I beieve he is genuine, sincere, caring,
and has risked his livlihood to help those in need.
Basically I take my wife to see him a couple of times a yr. We basically report to him what we're
doing as far as treatment and he gives us any feedback he might have.
I appreciate the fact that he "thinks outside the box".
If he helps you, praise God.
To all of you,
I'd like to be clear: We're taking a break from the sodium cloride. We're doing Mesosilver starting Mon. I want to "hit them with something different" for a while. My theory is that this bacteria is so advanced as far as selfpreservation
is concerned, we don't want to risk a resistance to ANY TREATMENT SUBSTANCE!
The problem is that this product, when purchased
in its purest form, is very expensive.Be strong all of you, I admire you.

Posts: 14 | From Meriden, Ks. | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DG
Member
Member # 13596

Icon 1 posted      Profile for DG         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
cave76,
I've not spoken to our LLMD about Mesosilver.
I want to share something that happened about 6 mos. into my wife's "relapse".
We were visiting w/yet another Dr. in K.C. He was
my wife's family's GP and a very good Dr. by all accounts.
He made a statement that I'll never forget. My wife was on the ABX protocol and after visiting
with him, he basically told us that first of all, he didn't believe she still had lyme,
and also that she was "treating herself".
I was so sick and tired of hearing things like that I figured it was time for me to embrace this illness, become more educated and proactive, and assist my wife in treatment of lyme.
So I felt that: Yes she was treating herself since
noone else but our LLMD would help her w/anything
else but SYMPTOMS.
Our LLMD in my opinion did not have an appropriate
treatment protocol for a CHRONIC LYME SUFFER.
So we still use our local family Dr. for symptoms.
We also use a chiropractor (who happens to be my
neice)for pain management,detoxing, and vit./min.
supplements as my neice is really
into those types of treatments.God Bless......

Posts: 14 | From Meriden, Ks. | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Health
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6034

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Health     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi DG,

I did the Salt C, and I was OFF antibiotics, and had a severe relapse. I had to go back on antibiotics.

I was not using the sodium cloride salt, I was using the Sea Salt, the Celtic Sea Salt. I dont know if it would have made a difference if I had been using the sodium cloride.

I had to start off with 1/4 gram of each and work up, and when I was at 5 grams, I started to relapse, and I kept going with the salt C, but I kept relapsing, and it was not a herx, ended up at ER, thought I was having a stroke, they did Brain Scan,

Anyways, I went back to LLMD, and went back on antibiotics and started to get better,

So, we are all different, I also had a severe babesia problem. I did babesia drugs.

I woudl def watch your wife, she may go into a relapse, and a severe one off antibiotics, so be careful.

I went off antibiotics twice, and relapsed both times, I just about died twice while OFF antibiotics.

I know this is a dreadful disease, and I tried going off antibiotics but I could not,

Have you treated babesia? this was huge for me.
MAYBE you need another LLMD?

I hope your wife gets better.

Trish

Posts: 1250 | From Canada | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DG
Member
Member # 13596

Icon 1 posted      Profile for DG         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Trish,

Thank you for sharing and for the advice.

I'm sorry to hear of your struggles. This disease
is so bizarre and unique to every person.

I've only been associated w/this for 13 mo. so I have alot to learn.

I believe sodium chloride tablets worked best for us as there seems to be no additives, buffers, or impurities.

They're also the only tablets in 1 gram form that I could find.

Salt in it's purest form is a natural bacteriacide
and has been known to be such for thousands of yrs.

I don't have any other answers only what we're experiencing at this time. Keep on keepin' on and
Lord bless you...

Posts: 14 | From Meriden, Ks. | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DG
Member
Member # 13596

Icon 1 posted      Profile for DG         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Minitails2,

Thanks for the questions and advice. As for editing my original post, one of the responders asked me to edit it so that it would read better
for those who have trouble concentrating.

I tried to do it and I didn't do a very good job.

Didn't delete or change anything from the original message,unless by accident.

We have conference calls with LLMD between visits
to share w/him what we're doing.

He's never discouraged NOT taking antibiotics.

He wants feedback from us.

Again, silver and other precious metals are natural bacteriacides and this has be known for thousands of yrs.

The key is too find these products in their purest form.(same w/salt).

I'm afraid for those who are making this stuff in their basement, but I understand why. This Colloid stuff is expensive, but that's because
you can't make the pure stuff w/a generator!!

Please don't get the idea that she's to the point where she's incapacitated, left to be treated by a dumb farmer(NOW THAT IS SCARY).

She's an RN and she's been through this so many
times w/abx'x, etc., she's welcomed the other approaches to treatment.

She told me that when she was sick before,(when she couldn't think, treat for herself), that she
wanted to try other things,(including colloid), but she didn't have the money as she was living on only disability.

My point is we're in this fight together and she relies on me for physical, emotional, and spiritual strength as well as the ability to do the research for alternatives.

My prayer is for her to be able to come on here too. She has a wealth of information about when she was so sick before. The problem is, that I can't relay some of that info. because she was so sick she doesn't remember alot of what happened during that time.

We're trying to put some of the pieces together
from family members.....Lord Bless You All

Posts: 14 | From Meriden, Ks. | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831

Icon 1 posted      Profile for oxygenbabe     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well I'm glad you stopped the salt/c.

All I can say is that, in the 7 1/2 years I've had lyme, it was the single absolute worst decision I ever made in my life to try that protocol and the only one that seriously harmed me and I still suffer the effects today and I learned that others had serious trouble with it. There are so many options out there I would not risk your kidney or heart function with those high doses of salt. The body is not meant to filter that much salt. It becomes a poison to your organs at that point because it so disrupts your electrolyte balance.

Good luck to you and your wife.

Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090

Icon 1 posted      Profile for luvs2ride     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi DG,

Welcome to lymenet.

Your first post did have a slight commercial sound to it but you clearly weren't selling anything since the salt/c can be purchased anywhere.

I too have seen the parasites in my poop. Ah what great conversations we have here at lymenet.

I think the reason abx were so bad for your wife is that she had so much wrong with her, her body and immune system were too compromised. The toxic side effects of the abx just added to her problems.

I spent a year working with a wonderful MD who is integrative and a member of CAM. We worked on clearing parasites, metals and healing my gut. I thrived under his care and got my life back but was not in full remission.

Then I was bit again and sank faster than the Titanic. Since this was a recent bite and abx work well on recent bites, I went to an ILADS LLMD where I assumed I would be entering the allopathic world.

Well yes and no. She is very allopathic but also incredibly integrative and quite knowledgeable about our illness.

She said the following:

1-When you are this sick, it is never 1 thing.

2-Until you heal the gut and clean up the body of toxins and parasites, there is no point going after the lyme.

My year of healing the body jumpstarted her work considerably. She ran a gazillion bloodtests (I accused her of curing me by bloodletting but calling it bloodtests). The tests came back positive for babesia WA-1, EBV, QFever, H. Pylori and tapeworms. My adrenals were flat and I was low in zinc and selenium. I'm not sure how much of this I had prior to bite, but I did not have any symptoms until after bite.

First she treated the adrenals for 30 days. She said no point trying to heal if the adrenals aren't working. She also supplemented the zinc and selenium and put me on my first drug - plaquenil. I have RA from this illness.

The fatigue I was experiencing since the 2nd bite went away.

Next she put me on ammoxy 1000mg 2x daily, biaxin 250mg 2x daily and prevacid 2x daily. After 30 days of this, my joint pain disappeared.

She wanted me to increase the biaxin to 500mg 2x daily. That took awhile. First few times I tried, it really flared my joints. But then, all of a sudden, I could tolerate that level and continue on it to this moment.

Just 3 weeks ago, she added methotrexate injections and humira injections. I pleaded not to take these as they have very dangerous side effects, I was in no pain and they reduce the effectiveness of the abx.

She gently but firmly stuck to her guns saying she would not be able to attack the babesia without them as my joints would flare and damage could result.

I am truly afraid of these two drugs. My husband has to inject me and I feel like I am being poisoned each time. It is really hard on me mentally. I am trying to trust my doctor. She is a rheumatologist who actually believes in infectious causes to RA. That is a rare find.

To try to offset the drug effects, I am eating a primo diet of mostly raw veggies. Yum-Yum....NOT! Also I am juicing almost every day.
This is labor intensive but I feel best when eating this way.

I juice garlic which is a great natural antibiotic, antiviral and chelator. I juice a bulb a day and so far hubby says I do not stink.

My gosh! What does that say about my body?

My point of all this is, perhaps the reason many here don't get well on the abx (well meaning you can quit taking the abx, anything else is just maintenance)is because of all the other things wrong with them that are preventing their bodies from healing.

I rebounded within 30 days of beginning the abx and 60 days later went into full remission (not bloodtest verified). That was end of July. I'm still in remission. I didn't begin the immune suppressing drugs until late Sept, so they do not get the credit for how good I feel.

I do not believe I would have had such good results if I had not spent the previous year healing my body and bringing it back into balance.

I have posted here many times of my inability to take an Epsom Salt bath without incredible joint pain. I can take them now as often as I want and have no pain afterwards. I am sure this is because I had 3x the highest acceptable limit of lead and highly elevated mercury in April 06.
The detoxing by Epsom Salts was too much for my body to handle.

Much work was done to chelate those metals and I do not believe I am nearly as toxic today.

You and your wife are on the right track, but I would recommend you work with a doctor knowledgeable in these things.

Good luck to you both and please keep us posted!

Luvs

--------------------
When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace.

Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552

Icon 1 posted      Profile for TerryK     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Wow Luvs, thanks for sharing. QFever sounds like it could be fairly debilitating all on it's own. The CDC recommends:
1) doxycycline in combination with quinolones for at least 4 years and 2) doxycycline in combination with hydroxychloroquine for 1.5 to 3 years.

I'll have to consider being checked for QFever. At least you can justify long term treatment to your insurance company via CDC protocols.

Can you please share what you have done for chelation? If that will hijack the thread, could you PM me please? I'm planning on embarking on metal chlelation soon and haven't decided how to proceed. I don't really trust my current N.D..

Terry

Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
valymemom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7076

Icon 1 posted      Profile for valymemom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I am glad to hear of your progress, luvs.

I think your llmd is a board member of ILADs.

Posts: 1240 | From Centreville,VA | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Cobweb
Unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"I too have seen the parasites in my poop."

Sure it wasn't corn? [Big Grin]

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Michelle M
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7200

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Michelle M   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by minitails2:
luvs2ride (motorcycles?) : [Cool]


Mini, I think Luvs is a horse lover!!! Me, too!

Luvs, your regimen is very intriguing.

I am not clear on how your LLMD is treating your babesia WA-1. It seems that she is simply NOT treating it, or is she proposing to treat it later, or what?

I am glad you are feeling good!!

Michelle

Posts: 3193 | From Northern California | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136

Icon 1 posted      Profile for CaliforniaLyme     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Luvs, I am worried about you from what you wrote- we have a local Rheumie who vbelieves in infectious causes and she treats with antibiotics not that toxic-toxic stuff. BE CAREFUL!!! Have oyu thought of seeing an LLMD just to get another treatment approach opinion?

I always thought motorcycles just because you come off as kind of "tough chick"!!! (Not an insult, I love motorcycles-) Never thought of horses!!! My older daughter rides horses-

ANYWAY, it sounds like you have a lot of faith in this doc and I hope it is well-founded. I am sure you know lots about her we don't-

Q fever- no wonder you have been sick!!! Wow.
Don't hear Q fever too often even around here!!!

Bestest wishes
for a full recovery for you,
Very sincerely,
Sarah

--------------------
There is no wealth but life.
-John Ruskin

All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer

Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DG
Member
Member # 13596

Icon 1 posted      Profile for DG         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
oxygenbabe,

Did you take sodium chloride tablets, table salt, sea salt ???? Thanks for the info. Best to your healing. God Bless... DG

Posts: 14 | From Meriden, Ks. | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DG
Member
Member # 13596

Icon 1 posted      Profile for DG         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Luvs,

THanks so much for sharing of your experiences, treatment, etc.!

May I ask how involved your hubby is in your treatment?

At first I wasn't very involved other than taking her to the dr. support,etc.

I just trusted her being an RN (which I still do!), and her past experience (ditto), but realized that that wasn't enough.

She told me that she couldn't even take a quarter
of a FLagil, after first being diagnosed. She also said she almost died when antibiotics were administered through a pic line.

I witnessed first hand the effects of abx. this time so I think you can understand how paranoid I am of not only abx., but any synthetic drugs.

I'm also frustrated w/the pharmacuetical companies er. drug cartels that are running the world so to speak.

That coupled with the FDA that absolutely refuses to stop the poison that lines the isles of our grocery stores.

Enough of that, I'm sure my soap box is crowded enough!!

Thanks again for sharing what's working for you and best of healing to you!!! DG

Posts: 14 | From Meriden, Ks. | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
B R H
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 12159

Icon 1 posted      Profile for B R H     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think it's a common misconception that antibiotics directly cure "infection." In some cases that may be partially true, but ultimately your own immune system has that task. There are so many "germs" in our environment that none of us would be here if that weren't the case. In addition, antibiotics seem to have other only recently discovered properties - both good & bad.

You may not be aware that many chronic illnesses are not caused by a single "species" of any bacteria. Borrelia (the bacteria generally associated with Lyme Disease) has many "plasmids" that it can share with other bacteria. They all basically share "stuff" that ultimately helps their survival as entirely different species! It's a very scary thought, but it helps explain why these infections are not easily cured! Unfortunately, some of these "bacteria" have attained a unique ability to survive inside the very immune system cells (macrophages) that are supposed to kill them!

This is the theory behind the Marshall Protocol. A good place to start reading about Trevor Marshall's pathogenesis for chronic disease is at the Bacteriality website, here. I am convinced Marshall's pathogenesis for chronic disease is accurate. I am not convinced MP offers a cure although my skepticism is waning.

The antibiotics chosen for MP are very "wide spectrum" in that, given enough time & when used together, there is no known "bacterial species" that should be able to reproduce in their presence. The addition of Benicar actually helps your immune system "realize" it is infected. In part, it does this by blocking another mechanism the bacteria has evolved to survive - altering your vitamin D metabolism. This treatment helps tip the scale in favor of your immune system.

Regarding the protozoa, the idea is that our immune systems should be better able to deal with these "co-infections" once the bacterial load is reduced & our immune system function is improved via MP. In my case, in addition to borrelia, I tested positive for a babesia infection that did respond well to anti-protozoan treatment before I started MP. That treatment clearly eliminated the persistent night sweats I was suffering from.

PS. Your wife might appreciate that many of the moderators at the Marshall Protocol website are also R.N.s!

[ 24. October 2007, 08:12 PM: Message edited by: B R H ]

Posts: 246 | From Grass Valley, CA | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
roro
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 13383

Icon 1 posted      Profile for roro     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I felt better after a few weeks of antibiotic. some of my symptoms (fever, sweats) went away within days.

pain took about a month

I was in very bad health, my immune system was shot, I felt like I was dying. I coudl barely walk, my heart rate and BP were through the roof. I was short of breath.

I got better just on antibiotics and yeast control.

Posts: 615 | From maryland | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
sixgoofykids
Moderator
Member # 11141

Icon 1 posted      Profile for sixgoofykids   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Mini, I also had high lead, about the same as luvs. I have NO IDEA how I got it! My daughter also had it ... after she chelated and was treated for Lyme her learning disabilities went away!!!!

I know there are many foods high in lead ... chocolate is one of the worst.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Vermont_Lymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9780

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Vermont_Lymie     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
6 Kids,

Hi --

Chocolate is high in lead? Oh no!! So must I then.

Posts: 2557 | From home | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Vermont_Lymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9780

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Vermont_Lymie     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It is true, total bummer! I must have missed the memo on this one. (Sorry to hijack the thread, but this is serious stuff).

I guess only chocolate from countries that still use lead in gas -- which would be most developing nations that produce cocoa?

From Environmental Health Perspectives:

Research Article

Lead Contamination in Cocoa and Cocoa Products: Isotopic Evidence of Global Contamination

Charley W. Rankin,1 Jerome O. Nriagu,2 Jugdeep K. Aggarwal,3 Toyin A. Arowolo,4 Kola Adebayo,5 and A. Russell Flegal1

1Environmental Toxicology, WIGS,University of California, Santa Cruz, California, USA;

2Department of Environmental Health Sciences, School of Public Health, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA;

3Earth Sciences, University of California, Santa Cruz, California;

4Department of Environmental Management and Toxicology, and

5Department of Agricultural Extension and Rural Development, University of Agriculture, Abeokuta, Nigeria

* Introduction
* Materials and Methods
* Results and Discussion

Abstract

In this article we present lead concentrations and isotopic compositions from analyses of cocoa beans, their shells, and soils from six Nigerian cocoa farms, and analyses of manufactured cocoa and chocolate products. The average lead concentration of cocoa beans was ≤ 0.5 ng/g, which is one of the lowest reported values for a natural food.

In contrast, lead concentrations of manufactured cocoa and chocolate products were as high as 230 and 70 ng/g, respectively, which are consistent with market-basket surveys that have repeatedly listed lead concentrations in chocolate products among the highest reported for all foods.

One source of contamination of the finished products is tentatively attributed to atmospheric emissions of leaded gasoline, which is still being used in Nigeria. Because of the high capacity of cocoa bean shells to adsorb lead, contamination from leaded gasoline emissions may occur during the fermentation and sun-drying of unshelled beans at cocoa farms.

This mechanism is supported by similarities in lead isotopic compositions of cocoa bean shells from the different farms (206Pb/207Pb = 1.1548-1.1581 ; 208Pb/207Pb = 2.4344-2.4394) with those of finished cocoa products (206Pb/207Pb = 1.1475-1.1977 ; 208Pb/207Pb = 2.4234-2.4673) .

However, the much higher lead concentrations and larger variability in lead isotopic composition of finished cocoa products, which falls within the global range of industrial lead aerosols, indicate that most contamination occurs during shipping and/or processing of the cocoa beans and the manufacture of cocoa and chocolate products.

Key words: chocolate, cocoa, contamination, isotopes, lead, natural foods. Environ Health Perspect 113: 1344-1348 (2005) . doi:10.1289/ehp.8009 available via http://dx.doi.org/ [Online 26 May 2005]

Posts: 2557 | From home | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
B R H
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 12159

Icon 1 posted      Profile for B R H     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You haven't found anything academic by Marshall? Are you serious? I'm not sure where to begin, but maybe start by watching some of his conference presentations or his presentation to the FDA. There are tons of them free online in video format.
Posts: 246 | From Grass Valley, CA | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
B R H
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 12159

Icon 1 posted      Profile for B R H     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm not sure what you're implying, but a presentation to "peers" freely available to the public in video format is about as open to review as it gets!

Have you watched any of the videos or read any of the journal papers? Below are some links that might help. This stuff is not as easy to find as it could be, but is well worth the effort. Start with the AAEM Presentation. The last 20 minutes or so might be the most interesting to this forum, but the whole thing is good!

AAEM Presentation

Papers

FDA presentation

Papers & Presentations for Physicians

30th Anniversary of Lyme

[ 26. October 2007, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: B R H ]

Posts: 246 | From Grass Valley, CA | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
B R H
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 12159

Icon 1 posted      Profile for B R H     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You can certainly wait for what you call "verified research." That may or may not be the safest thing to do for you. Consider that cutting edge research takes quite some time (often 10-20 years!) to become accepted in the established medical community.

Thanks for the well wishes & I'm feeling MUCH better already! I continue to have immunopathology timed with the antibiotic dosing (actually with the decay of the antibiotic concentration) but feel so much better in-between. I also have objective lab results to support my progress.

Did you know that there are Lyme patients that have gone negative on Bowen lyme titre tests on MP? That test, while no longer available, detects the bacteria directly, not just antibodies to it!

Posts: 246 | From Grass Valley, CA | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | LymeNet home page | Privacy Statement

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:

The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey
907 Pebble Creek Court, Pennington, NJ 08534 USA


| Flash Discussion | Support Groups | On-Line Library
Legal Resources | Medical Abstracts | Newsletter | Books
Pictures | Site Search | Links | Help/Questions
About LymeNet | Contact Us

© 1993-2020 The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.
Use of the LymeNet Site is subject to Terms and Conditions.