LymeNet Home LymeNet Home Page LymeNet Flash Discussion LymeNet Support Group Database LymeNet Literature Library LymeNet Legal Resources LymeNet Medical & Scientific Abstract Database LymeNet Newsletter Home Page LymeNet Recommended Books LymeNet Tick Pictures Search The LymeNet Site LymeNet Links LymeNet Frequently Asked Questions About The Lyme Disease Network LymeNet Menu

LymeNet on Facebook

LymeNet on Twitter




The Lyme Disease Network receives a commission from Amazon.com for each purchase originating from this site.

When purchasing from Amazon.com, please
click here first.

Thank you.

LymeNet Flash Discussion
Dedicated to the Bachmann Family

LymeNet needs your help:
LymeNet 2020 fund drive


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations.

LymeNet Flash Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Vitamin D3

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: Vitamin D3
CherylSue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13077

Icon 1 posted      Profile for CherylSue     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
My LLMD Dr. C of Mo suggested I take 5,000 units of Vit D. Has anyone had experience with this? I would imagine one would start slow and work their way up.

In the For What It's Worth Protocol, it is suggested to start with vit. D before anything else like herbals or abx. Herxing can follow at higher doses. It's supposed to get the immune system going, in theory at least.

What has been your experience?

Thanks,

CherylSue

Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
map1131
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2022

Icon 1 posted      Profile for map1131     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'v taken D-3 in the winter when I'm not able to catch the 15 minutes of sun that is needed for the body to produce it's own. I've been taking cal/mag/vit d supplement for the last few months, but I just realized last weeks it's not the D-3.

Thanks for reminding me with this post to add it to my list of things I need from the health store.

Dr C says 5000 a day? Then I'll need to check and make sure to do that dosage.

Pam

--------------------
"Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill

Posts: 6448 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
gwenb
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 7217

Icon 1 posted      Profile for gwenb     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi

I have posted a lot on my experience with Vit D3. In February of this year I started supplementing with Vit D. I started out immediately at about 4,000 IU daily and worked my way up to 10,000 IU within a week (I do not recommend this for everyone - you should get your levels checked ahead of time).

I supplemented at 10,000 IU for 6 weeks and then had my levels checked. After 6 weeks of supplementing at a high dosage my Vit D levels were exactly where they should be (actually a tiny bit on the low side of optimum). I tested at 117 nmol/lt - ideally you want to be at 125nmol - 150nmol.

The take home part of this story is the amazing improvement in my symptoms. I have had Lyme disease for at least 18 years and was clinically and serologically diagnosed 2 years ago. I was very sick 4 years ago and felt like I was dying - literally. I had severe headaches that would run for weeks, bad arthritis, severe fatigue, couldn't regulate my temperature, serious cognitive impairment and the list goes on. I have not taken abx yet.

I gradually improved through radically changing my diet, supplements and a special herbal formula that is muscle tested for me specifically and which is changed every 3-4 months as my body adapts to Lyme disease. Although all of these things helped I was still only "okay." I was very fatigued and couldn't exercise beyond walking.

Supplementation with Vit D changed that. I started feeling better in about 2 weeks and the improvements just kept on going. I have posted numberous articles (peer-reviewed from Pubmed regarding the multiple benefits of Vit D regarding cancer, rheumatoid arthritis, MS etc). I found the link between Vit D and MS particularly interesting as there have been hundreds of peer-reviewed studies which show adequate Vit D levels improve MS symptoms. Given the geographic overlap between Ixodes ticks and MS "clusters" I personally believe that MS could very likely be an undiagnosed bacterial infection - possibly Borellia burgdorferi.

For me Vit D supplementation was the MOST important thing I have done to tackle my Lyme disease. I am not 100% better but I am much much much better. I exercise regularly now (cyclding to work every day and going to the gym on weekends), my symptoms have improved to the point where on most days I am operating between 80-90% - some days I almost feel as if I don't have Lyme disease.

Lingering symptoms include tinnitus, some fatigue (85% better) some cognitive impairment (although much much better than it was - there were times 3 years ago when I couldn't remember my job title at work, my bank PIN or my own phone number - I deal at lot with media at my job so it was a bit of a nightmare to have problems with word recall and memory issues.)

My experience with Vit D has turned me into an evangelist - and I am not religious : ) - I highly recommend getting tested and then supplementing if you are low in Vit D as many many many North Americans are.

Gwen

Posts: 227 | From vancouver,bc | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
dguy
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 8979

Icon 1 posted      Profile for dguy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
My experience with vitamin D was I felt better while taking it, but worse after stopping, that is worse than before starting the D.

It may depend on what your D levels are. Most lymies are high in 1,25D (the biologically active kind), and low in 25D (the kind most often measured). Since my 1,25D was already very high, supplementing with D3 was unnecessary, perhaps even deleterious.

Bioactive vitamin D is a steroid. Since steroids suppress immune response they are contraindicated during infections. Those who supplement with D may feel better because their immune response (and the resulting inflammation we feel as symptoms) has been damped down. Steroids make me feel much better too, but meanwhile the infection is left to grow worse.

Since the role of vitamin D in Lyme is a relatively new area, there remain uncertainties. It's something each person needs to research on their own and make their own decision.

Posts: 727 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831

Icon 1 posted      Profile for oxygenbabe     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
My vitamin D is normal (38 ng/ml), 30 of d3 and 8 of d2.

Gwen--how does that translate to nmol? Can you translate that for me? I'd appreciate it.

I had it taken two weeks ago. I don't want to go overboard, but from Nov-Feb in NY where I live, you can't make your vitamin D from the sun at all. That's why I waited to take it until I wasn't making my own from the sun. I love the sun and the summertime.

So, I want to supplement from Nov-Feb. I have Liqui D3 in oil. I just tried a drop today (one drop is 200 IU). Boy it tastes lousy!! [Smile] Assuming I tolerate, I will work up slowly to 1000 IU a day and see how I do. 2000 at most.

[ 12. November 2007, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: oxygenbabe ]

Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
CherylSue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13077

Icon 1 posted      Profile for CherylSue     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks for your replies. It gives me something to think upon. I did order some online, and it should arrive soon. I don't think it was very expensive.

Cherylsue

Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
gwenb
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 7217

Icon 1 posted      Profile for gwenb     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi Oxygenbabe

To find out what your ng is in nmol x 2.5

For example 32 ng/ml x 2.5 = 80 nmol/lt

So for me being at 117 nmol/lt (the low side of optimal)I was 46.8 ng/ml

Gwen

[ 12. November 2007, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: gwenb ]

Posts: 227 | From vancouver,bc | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
djf2005
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11449

Icon 1 posted      Profile for djf2005     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
does anyone know if the body gets vitamin d
from tanning booths?

i know its not good for overall health and what not
but i use 20 min of sun a day and it helps my symptoms. with the winter coming, im not sure
how to get sun now...

[bonk]

--------------------
"Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."

[email protected]

Posts: 2269 | From Lansdowne, Pa | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831

Icon 1 posted      Profile for oxygenbabe     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks Gwen. So maybe I will supplement 1000 IU 3x a week and measure again in a month. I did take some more yesterday and maybe its a coincidence maybe not but I felt more energy. But I don't want to overdo it.

Minitails, I don't think he understands the use of "steroid" here. Estrogen, testosterone, cortisone, etc, are all steroid hormones. Wikipedia has a good explanation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steroid_hormone

When we think of supplementing with steroids, in a lay sense, we think of bodybuilders etc. Cortisone derivatives. Those can suppress the immune system. But in a more generic sense, steroids are a signalling system, finely tuned. Each steroid hormone has a different role in the body.

If we supplement with estrogen, for instance, since estrogen is an inhibitor of an inhibitor (literally, biochemically) we may get cell proliferation. That's why when women stopped taking HRT, as recent news has shown, breast cancer rates went down. Maybe it wasn't such a good idea to supplement with estrogen after menopause. The body naturally eases its own supply. And also, interestingly, that's when women tend to gain weight. Fat produces estrone, a less potent estrogen hormone than estradiol. But the body probably knows what it's doing and is balancing itself.

As wikipedia notes, Vitamin D is probably the sixth "steroid". I don't see any evidence epidemiologically that it suppresses immunity--studies show that low Vitamin D raises risk for MS and tuberculosis. That's good enough for me to see that supplementing Vitamin D probably increases immunity.

However, I don't think we should make it that simple. I had my Vitamin D receptors (VDR's) tested, not on purpose, it was Amy Yasko's genetics test, and mine were plus/minus, i.e. right in the average. There are folks who would utilize their Vitamin D better than me, and those who would utilize it less well. So there are surely genetic differences in how we conserve our Vitamin D or how responsive our genes are.

In addition, it isn't as simple as, in the winter months, take Vitamin D. I bet sunlight and UV, even the non-Vitamin D producing wavelengths, are important to health even in winter months. Melatonin, for instance. I am indoors a lot by profession and being in the city etc. It's been raining the last two days and I don't feel like voluntarily going out into the park to get cloudy light. So at least, full spectum light indoors can help a bit, even though it doesn't have UV it probably sets the circadian/biological clock.

Those are just my thoughts.

Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090

Icon 1 posted      Profile for luvs2ride     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I tested very low in Vit D. During the summer I get plenty from the sun and feel really good. Last winter (no Vit D) my arthritis aggravated. I began supplementing Vit D3 recently as a result of the bloodtest and because of recent press stating Vit D3 can cut certain cancer risks by 60%.

We have reached frost levels now and I am still without arthritic pain! Could be the Vit D3.

Luvs

--------------------
When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace.

Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
map1131
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2022

Icon 1 posted      Profile for map1131     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
djf, reading these postings reminded me how the tanning beds helped me get by for long winters back a few years ago. I was using them for pain relief and it did help me.

There is posting by dr mentioning tanning beds????

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=059930

Pam

--------------------
"Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill

Posts: 6448 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ByronSBell 2007
Unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Does Vitamin D3 act as a natural steroid or is that the other kind of vitamin d?
IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
djf2005
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11449

Icon 1 posted      Profile for djf2005     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
thanks map.

im gonna try d3 supp then tanning if that doesnt work. in in NE PA and already week one into the gloom and i feel a difference.

need those rays!!!

thanks

humbly,

derek

--------------------
"Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."

[email protected]

Posts: 2269 | From Lansdowne, Pa | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
dguy
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 8979

Icon 1 posted      Profile for dguy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by minitails2:
Dguy,
Do you have some source for that info, I mean a peer-reviewed study?

I believe all I stated is well-accepted by conventional medicine. Google various combinations of [vitamin D steroid immune] and you'll find plenty of reviewed sources that agree.

Bioactive Vitamin D is a steroid. Steroids are well known to suppress the immune system, and in fact are often used explicitly for that purpose.

Conversely, most people here are working to strengthen their immune systems, hence all the effort toward ridding of toxins, mercury etc.

Sure, I could take steroids and vitamin D to reduce my symptoms. But I do not, because now that I know I'm infected, I want my immune system working at full power.

Posts: 727 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Truthfinder     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Byron, my understanding is that both D3 and D2 are converted by the body to the `steroid-type' vitamin D.

My test results recently:

1,25-D: 49 pg/ml - Normal (range is 15-60)
25-D, Total: 16 - LOW (range is 20-100) (see below)

And I was already taking 200 i.u. of D3 in my daily supplement when I was tested.

This is what I've gleaned from the Marshall Protocol folks....

quote:
......current research has demonstrated that osteoporosis and osteopenia are often the direct result of infection with L-form bacteria which produce inflammatory cytokines and inactivate the Vitamin D Receptor.

....Recent research has shown that levels of 25-D over 20 ng/ml can bind and inactivate the VDR [Vitamin D Receptors] which subsequently shuts down the innate immune system.

....Also, when levels of 1,25D rise above 42 ng/ml, calcium begins to be leached from the bones, a process that results in osteoporosis and osteopenia.

Most of this info came from:
http://bacteriality.com/category/vitamin-d/

I have no idea if these theories are right or wrong. But I can say that in retrospect, my bone loss issues probably started about the same time as the major Lyme symptoms started to appear.

So, I'm now taking about 1,400 i.u. of Vitamin D3, and I'll retest my D levels in a couple of months. If my 1,25-D levels rise, but my 25-D levels don't change much, I will have to wonder what is going on.

I, too, feel better now that I am taking more Vitamin D3!! It has been about 3 weeks now, I guess. The primary improvement has been in my back and rib pain. No change in my knee issues.

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�.

Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DoctorLuddite
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 13853

Icon 1 posted      Profile for DoctorLuddite     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
To all Lyme sufferers interested in Vitamin D:
Get your 25 Hydroxy vitamin D level tested! At the same time get a comprehensive metabolic profile to assess hepatic (liver) and renal (kidney) function as well as Calcium level. The reason is this: The vitamin D endocrine metabolism involves transformation of the prehormone from the skin into 25 hydroxy D by the liver and 1,25 dihydroxy D by the kidney and certain inflammatory cells.

Think of the 25 hydroxy D as your bank reserve and 1,25 dihydroxy D as your pocket cash. You'll feel better about spending your pocket cash if you know that there is more where it came from...

If there is even slight impairment of liver or kidney function, the transition from 25 hydroxy to 1,25 dihydroxy will be impaired, and as a result, a metabolic stress could put you over the edge and precipitate an exacerbation. Heavy metals and petrochemical toxins (we all have them in our systems now folks) can strain the detox capacities of the liver and kidneys and inhibit the normal cycle of vitamin D metabolism.

If you increase 25 hydroxy from deficiency to normalcy, a high 1,25 level should normalize, but if you have been found to have a high 1,25 level, a plausible explanation should be at least hypothesized as it can disrupt calcium metabolism.

Yes, you can get vitamin D from a tanning booth, but not if you put on sunscreen before entering the booth, that filters the UV light that converts cholesterol to the D prehormone. Don't enter a tanning booth to get a tan, do it for the D. If you go to a tanning booth, don't go to one that won't let you go for less than 10 minute blocks. In fact, for a stand up booth, you should go for no more than 2-3 minutes to determine if your skin can take it, they (tanning booths) are very intense and CAN BURN YOU AND YOUR EYES SEVERELY.Any physiologic stress your body is placed under requires vitamin D(hydroxy & dihydroxy) for an appropriate response.

It is a hormone, but it regulates immune function rather than suppress it, so if your immune activity is suppressed and you are D deficient, replacement should upregulate your function and if you have an overactive immune system, D will down regulate it. Vitamin D has been around around as long as we have. Sunshine for longer. What has actually changed in the last 100 years is the atmosphere that the natural light from the sun is filtered through...

[ 14. November 2007, 07:59 AM: Message edited by: DoctorLuddite ]

Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Soleilpie
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 8481

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Soleilpie     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I posted this comment on another thread about Vitamin D:

Keep in mind that just because it's a steroid doesn't necessarily mean it's going to prevent treatment of Lyme from working. It probably depends on the level of steroid when trying to determine if the immune system is going to be majorly suppressed by it.

Pregnenolone, Progesterone, Aldosterone, Testosterone, Estradiol, and Cortisol are examples of hormones that are steroids. These hormones are natural to our body and unless there's some kind of defect, these hormones do not suppress our immune system or at least not to dangerous levels.

If that were the case, then the entire world would be ill. It is more than likely because of the level of steroid that is produced.

The same thing may be said about vitamin D. At what point is it more unhealthy to be vitamin D deficient versus immunosuppressed? I have no clue.

--------------------
The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good, and how he treats people who can't fight back.
-Abigail van Buren (Pauline Esther Friedman) (1918-2002)

Posts: 409 | From Florida | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831

Icon 1 posted      Profile for oxygenbabe     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Please don't misinterpret the word steroid. Steroid is *not* synonymous with immune suppression. You are thinking probably of cortisone (as a medication).

Here is another good source

http://tinyurl.com/34vrh7

"Lets start by defining the words steroid and hormone. Steroid- is a fat soluble organic compound with an origin from plants or animals; it is characterized by its "steroid nucleus" and is a class of lipid. Hormone- a chemical messenger produced by endocrine glands, whose secretion are liberated directly into the bloodstream and transported to a distant part or parts of the body, where they exert a specific effect for the benefit of the body as a whole"

Consider that an excess of estrogen affects cell proliferation thus HRT increased breast cancer rates.

Consider that cortisone, an anti-inflammatory, can suppress the immune system.

Consider that if a woman took testosterone, she might grow facial hair.

Consider that when a man wants to undergo a sex change to become like a woman, he takes estrogen so he can grow breasts and hips and have softer skin etc.

They each have different functions.

If Vitamin D is a secosteroid, or now considered a steroid, you have to look at what it does. As far as the immune system, literature shows that it increases phagoyctosis (ability of immune system to kill bugs), antimicrobial peptides, it also is an immunomodulator (looks like it may reduce inflammation).

If you look at epidemiological studies, it seems to reduce incidence of MS, tuberculosis, and cancer.

An immunosuppressant couldn't do that.

The attempt to classify it that way is incorrect imo.

However, before you supplement, get your Vit. D measured, also imo. And supplement conservatively and carefully under a physician's guidance.

Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
dguy
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 8979

Icon 1 posted      Profile for dguy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I've tried both vitamin D supplemention and immune-supressing steroids like prednisolone and florinef. For me, each produced the same sort of symptom relief, but none eliminated the infection. Instead, my symptoms merely returned, more severe, after stopping. YMMV
Posts: 727 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
kelmo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8797

Icon 1 posted      Profile for kelmo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Just FYI. My daughter started at 400IU and herxed like never before.

She is now up to 5-6,000IU daily. It made a big difference.

We have just the opposite problem from you who don't get enough in the winter months. Here in the desert, going outside for 10 minutes in the summer without being in a pool is torture.

My daughter tends to hibernate more in the summer then enjoy time in the sun for a few minutes in the winter months.

I am also being treated for Lyme (or co.) and the doctor thinks that one of the reasons my immune system kept it suppressed for so long was that I am a crossing guard and get my daily dose of D. I always leave one part of my body not protected by sunscreen.

And, my LLMD does what Dr. C does. He starts people on D before ever starting them on abx.

Posts: 2903 | From AZ | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Truthfinder     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
DoctorLuddite, I can't read your post.

Some of us here cannot read large blocks of text - our eyes simply cannot sort it all out.

For future posts, may I suggest that you type 2 or 3 sentences and then hit the Enter key a couple of times to put some 'white space' between short paragraphs? Then, all of us should be able to read what you have taken the time to write.

(Or, you can edit your post by clicking on the little 'pencil and paper' icon up by the date of your post.) [Smile]

Thanks to everyone for subsequent posts - very helpful.

And it seems to me that many essential oils - like Frankincense - have 'steroid-like' properties, but they certainly don't impair the immune system. So, I do believe that we need to be careful about our interpretation of that "steroid" word.

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�.

Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734

Icon 1 posted      Profile for AliG     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
NatureMade has recently put out vitamins to compliment some prescription drugs that cause deficiencies. One that I noticed was for SSRIs it contains vitamin D. I don't recall the dose.

My dad had been having lots of problems with his skin. He had a pressure ulcer that just would not completely heal. We fought with it for months and months. Every time we would get it to heal over, it would open up again. I can't even tell you the countless things we tried.

My dad is on some really high dose SSRIs. I noticed the vitamins on the counter in the pharmacy & thought, what could it hurt?.... After a short time, it finally healed over and hasn't opened up again since. (knock wood)

I think it would be great if they would include information on the vitamin deficiencies caused by meds in their prescribing info. That would have saved a tremendous amount of trouble.

[ 14. November 2007, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: AliG ]

--------------------
Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner.

Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Truthfinder     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thank you, Ali. [Smile]

I had not really thought about medications causing Vitamin D deficiencies.......

Oh, I see that DocL edited his post, also....

Thanks, DocL. And my calcium level did come out LOW on one recent test, and borderline on another. So, I should probably re-check that, too, when I re-check the D levels. I have added some calcium to my regimen, and boy is it playing heck with my bowels.

DocL, do you have Lyme Disease?

I truly believe that spinal manipulations from my D.O. and my chiropractor are what kept me able to work for as long as I did. Unfortunately, in recent years, I've been unable to tolerate anything but the most gentle of adjustments.

My hope is that by strengthening my bones and connective tissue, and reducing inflammation, perhaps I will be able to avail myself of spinal/rib adjustments, once again.

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�.

Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
CricketSC
Member
Member # 11111

Icon 1 posted      Profile for CricketSC   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Last year prior to my lyme diagnosis my vitamin D 25 hydroxy levels were checked. Normal range was 32.0 - 100.0 my level came back at 25.5. Should I take a vitamin D3 supplement? I am currently on Zith / Mepron.
Posts: 36 | From Greenville, SC | Registered: Feb 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
dguy
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 8979

Icon 1 posted      Profile for dguy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Several ways to test yourself come to mind. If vitamin D supplementation reduces your symptoms, a possible test is to try briefly taking steroids known to suppress the immune system, for example, prednisolone. For me, prednisolone reduced my symptoms just like vitamin D, except it was faster acting.

So, we know bioactive vitamin D is a steroid, and steroids can suppress the immune system, and D masked my symptoms just like an immunosuppressive steroid. Since I want my immune system working full power, I avoid ingesting vitamin D. The standard disclaimer applies: everyone's D levels and extent of infection are different, so YMMV.

Posts: 727 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831

Icon 1 posted      Profile for oxygenbabe     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
No, dguy, you are using the word repetitively and loosely again and again. "Steroids suppress the immune system."
How do estrogen, testosterone, and progesterone suppress the immune system?
You just generally think the five steroid hormones are universally immune suppressive?
And that's that, reduce it to a cartoon caricature?
And ignore the literature on Vit D specifically showing increased antimicrobial peptides and increased phagocytosis.

Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Truthfinder     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
But dguy, that's only evidence of half of the problem..... it tells us nothing about what the immune system is doing.

What if......

.....a person got a baseline CD-57 test prior to supplementing with substantial Vitamin D, then did a re-test of the CD-57 along with their Vitamin D tests down the road 3 months or so?

Would changes in the CD-57 levels be a valid indicator?

Darn, I asked my doc about getting a CD-57 and that request sort of got lost in the shuffle..... now I wish I had done it prior to starting these additional supplements.

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�.

Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DoctorLuddite
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 13853

Icon 1 posted      Profile for DoctorLuddite     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Truthfinder, I had a tick bite that immediately resulted in induration and a target like reaction at the site this summer. I immediately took doxy. I tested negative by standard tests last month, and if I am conscientious about taking my D and getting adequate sunshine and avoiding things that stress my liver, I feel great. I never had any of the classic symptoms of lyme but developed a very mild parasthesia in my left arm this summer...

Cricket, the answer is in the question, the lab says that you are deficient based on studying the vitamin D levels of assumedly healthy people. Do not megadose yourself, but get some guidance from a Dr. that understands vitamin D metabolism.

Also, the hydroxylation of vitamin D in the liver, which is a major step in making it bio-active, is thought to be done by the cytochrome p-450 system, the system that also detoxifies medications, including many SSRIs. No one has proven it, but it is not much of a stretch to think that adding a hepatically detoxified drug to the system might competitively inhibit the cytochrome system from hydroxylating cholecalciferol into 25 hydroxy calciferol, and that adding D to a daily regimine might push this in a favorable direction.

Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
dguy
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 8979

Icon 1 posted      Profile for dguy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
O2babe: I'm merely reporting my personal experience that vitamin D masked my symptoms just like immunosuppressive steroids did. Rhetorical question alert: do you have evidence I did not experience this? Again, YMMV.

You might want to study more about vitamin D's antimicrobial effects: they come by destroying the cell-walls of bacteria. That won't do much good against bacteria like Bb that can survive without cell walls.

And finally, most lymies already have high levels of bioactive vitamin D (and inter-related low levels of its most-commonly-tested 25D precursor), yet we're still infected. I do not see how boosting our bioactive D levels even further via D supplemention can cure the infection.

Posts: 727 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831

Icon 1 posted      Profile for oxygenbabe     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Dguy: You're not merely reporting your results. You keep calling Vitamin D a steroid and saying steroids suppress the immune system.

A cursory look at the literature proves you wrong.

And how would you know about most lymies and their Vitamin D levels? Supposedly there are 250,000 new cases a year, and god knows how many chronic. There have been no tests.

Stop with the spurious "scientific" statements. Its so very annoying.

As for your response--who knows. Its subjective reporting. I've seen people report they are getting well on a protocol (salt/c for instance) that was damaging their kidneys and heart and making them horribly ill. I've witnessed firsthand someone completely housebound and applying for ss disability at the same time tell me by email that they are getting much better on their protocol and will be back at work soon. People can lie to themselves or misinterpret their symptomatology especially when there is an overriding need to believe in a certain protocol.

Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DoctorLuddite
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 13853

Icon 1 posted      Profile for DoctorLuddite     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
dguy, you likely have an immune system imbalance that resulted from activation by BB. Immune suppressives will alter that imbalance, but will likely have negative side effects long term, whereas prudent D supplements and good lifestyle habits will improve the imbalance without negative side effects. Yes, allowing your D level to drop will allow that imbalance to return, but it beats the pants off distorting your gut flora with repeated courses of antibiotics, or taking drugs that are not well tested.

As I said, a high 1,25 in the setting of a low 25 hydroxy should normalize when 25 hydroxy goes up as the renal enzyme that produces the 1,25 from 25 will downregulate when supplies of both are adequate. There are exceptions to this, but that's why replacement should be guided by someone with D metabolism savvy.

Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
dguy
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 8979

Icon 1 posted      Profile for dguy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I like to see people regain long-term health. It does not matters to me what method they use. I can only share my experience, see if others report similar, and explore the possible mechanisms. Many people here have found the same as me: they feel better when taking D. However sometimes it can be difficult to distinguish between feeling better (from pain killers, steroids, etc.) and actually getting better. Earlier today I suggested a way people might be able to distinguish it for themselves.

IMO it's important people proceed with caution because improvement they feel from vitamin D might simply be reduction of inflammation commonly found with the immune supression of steroids. This is why, for example, steroids are used to suppress the immune system's rejection in organ transplant patients. Occam's razor suggests that speculation for a more complex connection with vitamin D is unproductive.

Perhaps D will cure someone of lyme someday, and I'd be happy to hear that. A long trial of it didn't accomplish that for me, nor did it rebalance my high 1,25D, instead it merely masked my symptoms similar to the way other steroids did. As always, everyone's levels and extent of infection is different, so YMMV.

Posts: 727 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831

Icon 1 posted      Profile for oxygenbabe     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Dguy, Occam's razor does not lead to this kind of reasoning: cortisone is a steroid, so we as laypeople began to use the word steroid instead of glucocorticoid when speaking of the drug. Cortisone reduces inflammation but also suppresses immunity (thus those given cortisone for undiagnosed lyme usually have more difficult cases). Since Vitamin D may also be a steroid, it suppresses immunity too.

That's not logical reasoning.

You can't substitute any steroid into the equation. They each have different functions.

In addition, you keep ignoring the fact that Vitamin D increases phagocytosis and upregulates antimicrobial peptides. These allow the immune system to function better and kill more pathogens.

You have to look at the epidemiological studies too where lower levels of Vitamin D increased risk for tuberculosis.

That's not immune suppression by Vitamin D but the opposite.

Whether Marshall's theory holds for sarcoidosis who knows. Maybe its the low dose antibiotics and the benicar (anti inflammatory) as stated before. Anyway that's irrelevent to the fact that your views on Vitamin D are probably mostly incorrect.

Finally, I didn't see anyone suggesting Vitamin D supplementation would cure lyme.

Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DoctorLuddite
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 13853

Icon 1 posted      Profile for DoctorLuddite     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If you constantly run a high level of 1,25, the possible causes of that need to considered and ruled out, and if they are not ruled out and, say, you were found to have hyperparathyroidism, or sarcoidosis, or whatever, the condition needs to be treated appropriately. Since vit. D is a complex endocrine modulator and has effects (directly and indirectly)on every cell in the body, an imbalance can be impossible to tease out from which is cause and which is effect. Has any form of BB been demonstrated in your tissues or fluids since antibiotic treatment? If not, I would seriously question the idea that it is in your system and therefore, what you are dealing with is more likely the vitamin D imbalance, by Occam's razor of course.

[ 14. November 2007, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: DoctorLuddite ]

Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Truthfinder     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks for answering my question, Doc.

Well, heck. Isn't anybody even going to comment on my idea about doing a CD-57 test?

Since we know that the NK cell production is suppressed by Lyme (usually), then I thought perhaps the CD-57 test levels might be a reasonable indicator of what the immune system was doing as a result of supplementation with Vitamin D.

For instance, if the 1,25-D levels go up and the CD-57 level goes down, there might be a correlation there.

Anybody got any other ideas?

There must be some fairly simple way to gauge the effect of Vitamin D on immune system function....

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�.

Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lymetoo
Moderator
Member # 743

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Lymetoo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Sounds OK, Truth...but I go for what's easier on my pocketbook! I don't think the CD57 is a very valid test myself.

I began 4000 units of D-3 today.

dguy...What the heck is YMMV???

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

Posts: 95970 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dave6002
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9064

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Dave6002     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/vitaminD/

Vitamin D

Vitamin D is a fat-soluble vitamin that is essential for maintaining normal calcium metabolism (1). Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol) can be synthesized by humans in the skin upon exposure to ultraviolet-B (UVB) radiation from sunlight, or it can be obtained from the diet. Plants synthesize vitamin D2 (ergocalciferol), which also has vitamin D activity in humans. When exposure to UVB radiation is insufficient for the synthesis of adequate amounts of vitamin D3 in the skin, adequate intake of vitamin D from the diet is essential for health.

Function

Activation of Vitamin D

Vitamin D itself is biologically inactive, and it must be metabolized to its biologically active forms. After it is consumed in the diet or synthesized in the skin, vitamin D enters the circulation and is transported to the liver. In the liver, vitamin D is hydroxylated to form 25-hydroxyvitamin D [25(OH)D], the major circulating form of vitamin D. Increased exposure to sunlight or increased intake of vitamin D increases serum levels of 25(OH)D, making the serum 25(OH)D concentration a useful indicator of vitamin D nutritional status. In the kidney and other tissues, the 25(OH)D3-1-hydroxylase enzyme catalyzes a second hydroxylation of 25(OH)D, resulting in the formation of 1alpha,25-dihydroxyvitamin D [1,25(OH)2D]--the most potent form of vitamin D. Most of the physiological effects of vitamin D in the body are related to the activity of 1,25(OH)2D (2).

Mechanisms of Action

Many of the biological effects of 1,25(OH)2D are mediated through a nuclear transcription factor known as the vitamin D receptor (VDR) (3). Upon entering the nucleus of a cell, 1,25(OH)2D associates with the VDR and promotes its association with the retinoic acid X receptor (RXR). In the presence of 1,25(OH)2D the VDR/RXR complex binds small sequences of DNA known as vitamin D response elements (VDREs), and initiates a cascade of molecular interactions that modulate the transcription of specific genes. More than 50 genes in tissues throughout the body are known to be regulated by 1,25(OH)2D (4). Some physiological responses to 1,25(OH)2D occur too rapidly to be acting through gene transcription, suggesting that their may be also be a receptor for 1,25(OH)2D on the outer membrane of cells (5).

Calcium Balance

Maintenance of serum calcium levels within a narrow range is vital for normal functioning of the nervous system, as well as for bone growth, and maintenance of bone density. Vitamin D is essential for the efficient utilization of calcium by the body (1). The parathyroid glands sense serum calcium levels, and secrete parathyroid hormone (PTH) if calcium levels drop too low (diagram). Elevations in PTH increase the activity of 25(OH)D3-1-hydroxylase enzyme in the kidney, resulting in increased production of 1,25(OH)2D. Increasing 1,25(OH)2D production results in changes in gene expression that normalize serum calcium by 1) increasing the intestinal absorption of dietary calcium, 2) increasing the reabsorption of calcium filtered by the kidneys and 3) mobilizing calcium from bone when there is insufficient dietary calcium to maintain normal serum calcium levels. Parathyroid hormone and 1,25(OH)2D are required for the latter two effects (5a).

Cell Differentiation

Cells that are dividing rapidly are said to be proliferating. Differentiation results in the specialization of cells for specific functions. In general, differentiation of cells leads to a decrease in proliferation. While cellular proliferation is essential for growth and wound healing, uncontrolled proliferation of cells with certain mutations may lead to diseases like cancer. The active form of vitamin D, 1,25(OH)2D, inhibits proliferation and stimulates the differentiation of cells (1).

Immunity

Vitamin D in the form of 1,25(OH)2D is a potent immune system modulator. The VDR is expressed by most cells of the immune system, including T cells and antigen-presenting cells, such as dendritic cells and macrophages (6). Macrophages also produce the 25(OH)D3-1-hydroxylase enzyme that converts 25(OH)D to 1,25(OH)2D (7). There is considerable scientific evidence that 1,25(OH)2D has a variety of effects on immune system function that may enhance innate immunity and inhibit the development of autoimmunity (8).

Insulin Secretion

The VDR is expressed by insulin secreting cells of the pancreas, and the results of animal studies suggest that 1,25(OH)2D plays a role in insulin secretion under conditions of increased insulin demand (9). Limited data in humans suggests that insufficient vitamin D levels may have an adverse effect on insulin secretion and glucose tolerance in type 2 diabetes (noninsulin-dependent diabetes mellitus; NIDDM) (10-12).

Blood Pressure Regulation

The renin-angiotensin system plays an important role in the regulation of blood pressure (13). Renin is an enzyme that catalyzes the cleavage (splitting) of a small peptide (Angiotensin I) from a larger protein (angiotensinogen) produced in the liver. Angiotensin converting enzyme (ACE) catalyzes the cleavage of angiotensin I to form angiotensin II, a peptide that can increase blood pressure by inducing the constriction of small arteries and increasing sodium and water retention. The rate of angiotensin II synthesis is dependent on renin (14). Recent research in mice lacking the gene encoding the VDR, indicates that 1,25(OH)2D decreases the expression of the gene encoding renin through its interaction with the VDR (15). Since inappropriate activation of the renin-angiotensin system is thought to play a role in some forms of human hypertension, adequate vitamin D levels may be important for decreasing the risk of high blood pressure.

Deficiency

In vitamin D deficiency, calcium absorption cannot be increased enough to satisfy the body's calcium needs (2). Consequently, PTH production by the parathyroid glands is increased and calcium is mobilized from the skeleton to maintain normal serum calcium levels--a condition known as secondary hyperparathyroidism. Although it has long been known that severe vitamin D deficiency has serious consequences for bone health, recent research suggests that less obvious states of vitamin D deficiency are common and increase the risk of osteoporosis and other health problems (16, 17).

Severe Vitamin D Deficiency

Rickets

In infants and children, severe vitamin D deficiency results in the failure of bone to mineralize. Rapidly growing bones are most severely affected by rickets. The growth plates of bones continue to enlarge, but in the absence of adequate mineralization, weight-bearing limbs (arms and legs) become bowed. In infants, rickets may result in delayed closure of the fontanels (soft spots) in the skull, and the rib cage may become deformed due to the pulling action of the diaphragm. In severe cases, low serum calcium levels (hypocalcemia) may cause seizures. Although fortification of foods has led to complacency regarding vitamin D deficiency, nutritional rickets is still being reported in cities throughout the world (18, 19).

Osteomalacia

Although adult bones are no longer growing, they are in a constant state of turnover. In adults with severe vitamin D deficiency, the collagenous bone matrix is preserved but bone mineral is progressively lost, resulting in bone pain and osteomalacia (soft bones).

Muscle Weakness and Pain

Vitamin D deficiency causes muscle weakness and pain in children and adults. Muscle pain and weakness was a prominent symptom of vitamin D deficiency in a study of Arab and Danish Moslem women living in Denmark (20). In a cross-sectional study of 150 consecutive patients referred to a clinic in Minnesota for the evaluation of persistent, nonspecific musculoskeletal pain, 93% had serum 25(OH)D levels indicative of vitamin D deficiency (21). A randomized controlled trial found that supplementation of elderly women with 800 IU/day of vitamin D and 1,200 mg/day of calcium for three months increased muscle strength and decreased the risk of falling by almost 50% compared to supplementation with calcium alone (22).

Risk Factors for Vitamin D Deficiency

* Exclusively breast fed infants: Infants who are exclusively breast fed and do not receive vitamin D supplementation are at high risk of vitamin D deficiency, particularly if they have dark skin and/or receive little sun exposure (19). Human milk generally provides 25 IU of vitamin D per liter, which is not enough for an infant if it is the sole source of vitamin D. Older infants and toddlers exclusively fed milk substitutes and weaning foods that are not vitamin D fortified are also at risk of vitamin D deficiency (18). The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that all infants that are not consuming at least 500 ml (16 ounces) of vitamin D fortified formula or milk be given a vitamin D supplement of 200 IU/day (19).
* Dark skin: People with dark skin synthesize less vitamin D on exposure to sunlight than those with light skin (1). The risk of vitamin D deficiency is particularly high in dark-skinned people who live far from the equator. In the U.S., 42% of African American women between 15 and 49 years of age were vitamin D deficient compared to 4% of White women (23).
* Aging: The elderly have reduced capacity to synthesize vitamin D in the skin when exposed to UVB radiation, and are more likely to stay indoors or use sunscreen. Institutionalized adults are at extremely high risk of vitamin D deficiency without supplementation (24, 25).
* Covering all exposed skin or using sunscreen whenever outside: Osteomalacia has been documented in women who cover all of their skin whenever they are outside for religious or cultural reasons (26, 27). The application of sunscreen with an SPF factor of 8 reduces production of vitamin D by 95% (1).
* Fat malabsorption syndromes: Cystic fibrosis and cholestatic liver disease impair the absorption of dietary vitamin D (28).
* Inflammatory bowel disease: People with inflammatory bowel disease like Crohn's disease appear to be at increased risk of vitamin D deficiency, especially those who have had small bowel resections (29).
* Obesity: Obesity increases the risk of vitamin D deficiency (30). Once vitamin D is synthesized in the skin or ingested, it is deposited in body fat stores, making it less bioavailable to people with large stores of body fat.

Assessing Vitamin D Nutritional Status

Growing awareness that vitamin D insufficiency has serious health consequences beyond rickets and osteomalacia highlights the need for accurate assessment of vitamin D nutritional status. Although there is general agreement that the serum 25(OH)D level is the best indicator of vitamin D deficiency and sufficiency, the cutoff values have not been clearly defined (17). While laboratory reference ranges for serum 25(OH)D levels are often based on average values from populations of healthy individuals, recent research suggests that health-based cutoff values aimed at preventing secondary hyperparathyroidism and bone loss should be considerably higher. In general, serum 25(OH)D values less than 20-25 nmol/L indicate severe deficiency associated with rickets and osteomalacia (16, 18). Although 50 nmol/L has been suggested as the low end of the normal range (31), more recent research suggests that PTH levels (32, 33) and calcium absorption (34) are not optimized until serum 25(OH)D levels reach approximately 80 nmol/L . Thus, at least one vitamin D expert has argued that serum 25(OH)D values less than 80 nmol/L should be considered deficient (16), while another suggests that a healthy serum 25(OH)D value is between 75 nmol/L and 125 nmol/L (35). Data from supplementation studies indicates that vitamin D intakes of at least 800-1,000 IU/day are required by adults living in temperate latitudes to achieve serum 25(OH)D levels of at least 80 nmol/L (36, 37).

The Adequate Intake (AI)

In 1997, the Food and Nutrition Board of the Institute of Medicine felt that the issue of sunlight exposure confounded the existing data on vitamin D requirements, making it impossible to calculate an RDA (28). Instead, the Food and Nutrition Board set adequate intake levels (AI) that assume no vitamin D is being synthesized in the skin through exposure to sunlight. The AI values established in 1997 (see table below) reflect vitamin D intakes likely to maintain serum 25(OH)D levels of at least 37.5 nmol/L, which many experts now feel is too low (2, 16, 17).

Adequate Intake (AI) for Vitamin D
Life Stage Age Males
mcg/day (IU/day) Females
mcg/day (IU/day)
Infants 0-6 months 5 mcg (200 IU) 5 mcg (200 IU)
Infants 7-12 months 5 mcg (200 IU) 5 mcg (200 IU)
Children 1-3 years 5 mcg (200 IU) 5 mcg (200 IU)
Children 4-8 years 5 mcg (200 IU) 5 mcg (200 IU)
Children 9-13 years 5 mcg (200 IU) 5 mcg (200 IU)
Adolescents 14-18 years 5 mcg (200 IU) 5 mcg (200 IU)
Adults 19-50 years 5 mcg (200 IU) 5 mcg (200 IU)
Adults 51-70 years 10 mcg (400 IU) 10 mcg (400 IU)
Adults 71 years and older 15 mcg (600 IU) 15 mcg (600 IU)
Pregnancy all ages - 5 mcg (200 IU)
Breastfeeding all ages - 5 mcg (200 IU)


Disease Prevention

Osteoporosis

Although osteoporosis is a multifactorial disease, vitamin D insufficiency can be an important contributing factor. Without sufficient vitamin D, calcium absorption cannot be maximized and the resulting elevation in PTH secretion by the parathyroid glands results in increased bone resorption, which may lead to osteoporotic fracture (38). A prospective cohort study that followed more than 72,000 postmenopausal women in the U.S. for 18 years found that those who consumed at least 600 IU/day of vitamin D from diet and supplements had a risk of osteoporotic hip fracture that was 37% lower than women who consumed less than 140 IU/day (39). The results of most clinical trials suggest that vitamin D supplementation can slow bone density losses or decrease the risk of osteoporotic fracture in men and women who are unlikely to be getting enough vitamin D.

Supplementation of postmenopausal women in the U.S. with 500 mg/day of calcium and either 100 IU/day or 700 IU/day of vitamin D for two years slowed bone density losses at the hip only in the group taking 700 IU/day (40). Daily supplementation of elderly men and women with 500 mg/day of calcium and 700 IU/day of vitamin D for three years reduced bone density losses at the hip and spine and reduced the frequency of nonvertebral fractures (41). When the calcium and vitamin D supplements were discontinued, the bone density benefits were lost within 2 years (42). In Denmark, supplementation of elderly women with 400 IU/day of vitamin D for two years increased bone density at the hip (43).

An annual injection of 150,000-300,000 IU of vitamin D2 (ergocalciferol) for four years decreased the incidence of fracture in elderly Finnish women (44), and oral supplementation with 800 IU/day of vitamin D and 1,200 mg/day of calcium for three years decreased the incidence of hip fracture in elderly French women (45). Oral supplementation of elderly adults in the UK with 100,000 IU of vitamin D once every four months (equivalent to about 800 IU/day) for five years reduced the risk of osteoporotic fracture by 33% compared to placebo (46). However, oral supplementation with 400 IU/day of vitamin D for more than 3 years did not affect the incidence of fracture in a study of elderly Dutch men and women (47). Overall, the evidence to date suggests that vitamin D supplements of about 800 IU/day may be helpful in reducing bone loss and fracture rates in the elderly. In order for vitamin D supplementation to be effective in preserving bone health, adequate calcium (1,000 to 1,200 mg/day) should also be consumed.

Cancer

Two characteristics of cancer cells are their lack of differentiation (specialization) and their rapid growth or proliferation. Many malignant tumors have been found to contain vitamin D receptors (VDR), including breast, lung, skin (melanoma), colon, and bone. Biologically active forms of vitamin D, such as 1,25(OH)2D and its analogs, have been found to induce cell differentiation and/or inhibit proliferation of a number of cancerous and noncancerous cell types maintained in cell culture (48).

Colorectal Cancer

The geographic distribution of colon cancer is similar to the historic geographic distribution of rickets, providing circumstantial evidence that decreased sunlight exposure and diminished vitamin D nutritional status may be related to an increased risk of colon cancer. However, prospective cohort studies have not generally found total vitamin D intake to be associated with significant reductions in colorectal cancer when other risk factors are taken into account (49-52). One five-year study of more than 120,000 people found that men with the highest vitamin D intakes had a risk of colorectal cancer that was 29% lower than men with the lowest vitamin D intakes (53). Vitamin D intake was not significantly associated with colorectal cancer risk in women. Serum 25(OH)D level, which reflects vitamin D intake and vitamin D synthesis, was inversely associated with the risk of potentially precancerous colorectal polyps (54) and indices of colonic epithelial cell proliferation, (55) which are considered biomarkers for colon cancer risk.

Breast Cancer

Although breast cancer mortality follows a similar geographic distribution to that of colon cancer (56, 57), direct evidence of an association between vitamin D nutritional status and breast cancer risk is limited. A prospective study of women who participated in the first National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES I) found that several measures of sunlight exposure and dietary vitamin D intake were associated with a reduced risk of breast cancer 20 years later (58). More recently, a 16-year study of more than 88,000 women found that higher intakes of vitamin D were associated with significantly lower breast cancer risk in premenopausal women but not postmenopausal women (59).

Prostate Cancer

Epidemiological studies show correlations between risk factors for prostate cancer and conditions that can result in decreased vitamin D levels (48). Increased age is associated with an increased risk of prostate cancer, as well as with decreased sun exposure and decreased capacity to synthesize vitamin D. The incidence of prostate cancer is higher in African American men than in White American men, and the high melanin content of dark skin is known to reduce the efficiency of vitamin D synthesis. Geographically, mortality from prostate cancer is inversely associated with the availability of sunlight. Recent findings that prostate cells in culture can synthesize the 25(OH)D3-1-hydroxylase enzyme and that, unlike the renal enzyme, its synthesis is not influenced by PTH or calcium levels also provide support for the idea that increasing 25(OH)D levels may be useful in preventing prostate cancer (60). In contrast, prospective studies have not generally found significant relationships between serum 25(OH)D levels and subsequent risk of developing prostate cancer (61-64). Although a prospective study of Finnish men found that low serum 25(OH)D levels were associated with earlier and more aggressive prostate cancer development (65), another prospective study of men from Finland, Norway and Sweden found a U-shaped relationship between serum 25(OH)D levels and prostate cancer risk. In that study serum 25(OH)D concentrations of 19 nmol/L or lower and 80 nmol/L or higher were associated with higher prostate cancer risk (66). Further research is needed to determine the nature of the relationship between vitamin D nutritional status and prostate cancer risk.

Autoimmune Diseases

Insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus (IDDM), multiple sclerosis (MS), and rheumatoid arthritis (RA) are each examples of autoimmune disease. Autoimmune diseases occur when the body mounts an immune response to its own tissue, rather than a foreign pathogen. In IDDM, insulin producing beta-cells of the pancreas are the target of the inappropriate immune response. In MS, the targets are the myelin producing cells of the central nervous system, and in RA, the targets are the collagen producing cells of the joints (67). Autoimmune responses are mediated by immune cells called T cells. The biologically active form of vitamin D, 1,25(OH)2D, has been found to modulate T cell responses, such that the autoimmune responses are diminished. Treatment with 1,25(OH)2D has beneficial effects in animal models of IDDM , MS, and RA. epidemiological studies have found that the prevalence of IDDM, MS, and RA increases as latitude increases, suggesting that lower exposure to UVB radiation and associated decreases in vitamin D synthesis may play a role in the pathology of these diseases. The results of several prospective cohort studies also suggest that adequate vitamin D intake may decrease the risk of autoimmune diseases. A prospective cohort study of children born in Finland during the year 1966 and followed for thirty years found that those who received vitamin D supplementation in the first year of life had a significantly lower risk of developing IDDM, while children suspected of developing rickets (severe vitamin D deficiency) during the first year of life had a significantly higher risk of developing IDDM (68). Vitamin D supplement use was associated with a significant reduction in the risk of developing MS in two large cohorts of women followed for at least ten years (69). Similarly, postmenopausal women with the highest total vitamin D intakes were at significantly lower risk of developing RA after eleven years of follow up than those with the lowest intakes (70). Evidence from animal models and epidemiological studies suggests that maintaining sufficient vitamin D levels may help decrease the risk of several autoimmune diseases.

Hypertension (High Blood Pressure)

The results of epidemiological and clinical studies suggest an inverse relationship between serum 1,25(OH)2D levels and blood pressure, which may be explained by recent findings that 1,25(OH)2D decreases the expression of the gene encoding renin (see Function). Data from epidemiological studies suggest that conditions that decrease vitamin D synthesis in the skin, such as having dark skin and living in temperate latitudes, are associated with increased prevalence of hypertension (71). A controlled clinical trial in 18 hypertensive men and women living in the Netherlands found that exposure to UVB radiation three times weekly for six weeks during the winter increased serum 25(OH)D levels and significantly decreased 24-hour ambulatory systolic and diastolic blood pressure measurements by an average of 6 mm Hg (72). In randomized controlled trials of vitamin D supplementation, a combination of 1,600 IU/day of vitamin D and 800 mg/day of calcium for eight weeks significantly decreased systolic blood pressure in elderly women by 9% compared to calcium alone (73), but supplementation with 400 IU/day or a single dose of 100,000 IU of vitamin D did not significantly lower blood pressure in elderly men and women over the next two months (74, 75). At present, data from controlled clinical trials are too limited to determine whether vitamin D supplementation will be effective in lowering blood pressure or preventing hypertension.

Sources

Sunlight

Sunlight exposure provides most people with their entire vitamin D requirement. Children and young adults who spend a short time outside two or three times a week will generally synthesize all the vitamin D they need. The elderly have diminished capacity to synthesize vitamin D from sunlight exposure and frequently use sunscreen or protective clothing in order to prevent skin cancer and sun damage. The application of sunscreen with an SPF factor of 8 reduces production of vitamin D by 95%. In latitudes around 40 degrees north or 40 degrees south (Boston is 42 degrees north), there is insufficient UVB radiation available for vitamin D synthesis from November to early March. Ten degrees farther north or south (Edmonton, Canada) this ``vitamin D winter'' extends from mid October to mid March. According to Dr. Michael Holick, as little as 5-10 minutes of sun exposure on arms and legs or face and arms three times weekly between 11:00 am and 2:00 pm during the spring, summer, and fall at 42 degrees latitude should provide a light-skinned individual with adequate vitamin D and allow for storage of any excess for use during the winter with minimal risk of skin damage (35).

Food sources

Vitamin D is found naturally in very few foods. Foods containing vitamin D include some fatty fish (mackerel, salmon, sardines), fish liver oils, and eggs from hens that have been fed vitamin D. In the U.S., milk and infant formula are fortified with vitamin D so that they contain 400 IU (10 mcg) per quart. However, other dairy products such as cheese and yogurt are not always fortified with vitamin D. Some cereals and breads are also fortified with vitamin D. Recently, orange juice fortified with vitamin D has been made available in the U.S. Accurate estimates of average dietary intakes of vitamin D are difficult because of the high variability of the vitamin D content of fortified foods (28). Vitamin D contents of some vitamin D-rich foods are listed in the table below in both international units (IU) and micrograms (mcg). For more information on the nutrient content of foods you eat frequently, search the USDA food composition database.
Food Serving Vitamin D (IU) Vitamin D (mcg)
Pink salmon, canned 3 ounces 530 13.3
Sardines, canned 3 ounces 231 5.8
Mackerel, canned 3 ounces 214 5.4
Quaker Nutrition for Women Instant Oatmeal 1 packet 140 3.5
Cow's milk, fortified with vitamin D 8 ounces 100 2.5
Orange juice, fortified with vitamin D 8 ounces 100 2.5
Cereal, fortified 1 serving (usually 1 cup) 40-50 1.0-1.3
Egg yolk 1 medium 25 0.63



Supplements

Most vitamin D supplements available without a prescription contain cholecalciferol (vitamin D3), which is more potent than ergocalciferol (vitamin D2) (76-78). Multivitamin supplements for children generally provide 200 IU (5 mcg) and multivitamin supplements for adults generally provide 400 IU (10 mcg) of vitamin D. Single ingredient vitamin D supplements may provide 400-1,000 IU of vitamin D, but 400 IU is the most commonly available dose. A number of calcium supplements may also provide vitamin D.

Safety

Toxicity

Vitamin D toxicity (hypervitaminosis D) induces abnormally high serum calcium levels (hypercalcemia), which could result in bone loss, kidney stones, and calcification of organs like the heart and kidneys if untreated over a long period of time. When the Food and Nutrition Board of the Institute of Medicine established the tolerable upper intake level (UL) for vitamin D, published studies that adequately documented the lowest intake levels of vitamin D that induced hypercalcemia were very limited. Because the consequences of hypercalcemia are severe, the Food and Nutrition Board established a very conservative UL of 2,000 IU/day (50 mcg/day) for children and adults (see table below) (28). Research published since 1997 suggests that the UL for adults is likely overly conservative and that vitamin D toxicity is very unlikely in healthy people at intake levels lower than 10,000 IU/day (36, 79, 80). Vitamin D toxicity has not been observed to result from sun exposure. Certain medical conditions can increase the risk of hypercalcemia in response to vitamin D, including primary hyperparathyroidism, sarcoidosis, tuberculosis, and lymphoma (36). People with these conditions may develop hypercalcemia in response to any increase in vitamin D nutrition and should consult a qualified health care provider regarding any increase in vitamin D intake.
Tolerable Upper Intake Level (UL) for Vitamin D
Age Group mcg/day (IU/day)
Infants 0-12 months 25 mcg (1000 IU)
Children 1-18 years 50 mcg (2000 IU)
Adults 19 years and older 50 mcg (2000 IU)



Drug interactions

The following medications increase the metabolism of vitamin D and may decrease serum 25(OH)D levels: phenytoin (Dilantin), fosphenytoin (Cerebyx), phenobarbital (Luminal), carbamazepine (Tegretol), and rifampin (Rimactane). The following medications should not be taken at the same time as vitamin D because they can decrease the intestinal absorption of vitamin D: cholestyramine (Questran), colestipol (Colestid), orlistat (Xenical), mineral oil, and the fat substitute Olestra. The oral anti-fungal medication, ketoconazole, inhibits the 25(OH)D3-1-hydroxylase enzyme and has been found to reduce serum levels of 1,25(OH)D in healthy men . The induction of hypercalcemia by toxic levels of vitamin D may precipitate cardiac arrhythmia in patients on digitalis (Digoxin) (81, 82).

Linus Pauling Institute Recommendation

The Linus Pauling Institute recommends that generally healthy adults take a multivitamin supplement that supplies 400 IU (10 mcg) of vitamin D daily. Additionally, at least 10-15 minutes of sun exposure on the arms and legs or face and arms at least three times weekly between 11:00 am and 2:00 pm during the spring, summer, and fall may help residents of temperate latitudes (much of the U.S.) avoid vitamin D deficiency at the end of winter.

Older adults (65 years and older) and people with minimal sun exposure

In addition to the 400 IU (10 mcg) of vitamin D provided by a multivitamin supplement, people over the age of 65 and people who get minimal sun exposure throughout the year should take an additional vitamin D supplement of 400 IU/day (10 mcg/day) to provide a total of 800 IU/day (20 mcg/day).

References

Written in March 2004 by:
Jane Higdon, Ph.D.
Linus Pauling Institute
Oregon State University

Updated in June 2007 by:
Victoria J. Drake, Ph.D.
Linus Pauling Institute
Oregon State University

Reviewed in March 2004 by:
Hector F. DeLuca, Ph.D.
Steenbock Research Professor and Chairman
Department of Biochemistry
University of Wisconsin-Madison

Copyright 2000-2007 Linus Pauling Institute [] [/QUOTE]

Posts: 1078 | From Fairland | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Truthfinder     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Agreed, Tutu - the CD-57 test isn't terribly reliable as a Lyme indicator...... but that wouldn't be the reason for using it in this case. But it is a marker that is `associated' with Lyme, just like CD-4 is associated with AIDS/HIV.

Well, I may call today and see if my PCP will consent to doing the CD-57. I know they use LabCorp, which I think is still the preferred lab for this. I've been curious about my CD-57 levels anyway......

Wow, 4,000 units! You'll have to let us all know how you feel....

BTW, the past few days, I've dropped my Vit D3 intake back to about 600-700 i.u. a day, and boy am I feeling it.

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�.

Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
dguy
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 8979

Icon 1 posted      Profile for dguy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Truthfinder:
Anybody got any other ideas?

There must be some fairly simple way to gauge the effect of Vitamin D on immune system function....

While not rigorous epidemiology, it's possible to gather some data just by observing posts on this board. For example:

Many lyme symptoms reported here are related to excess inflammation. People report a reduction in symptoms when supplementing vitamin D. People report steroids also reduce their symptoms.

Many people report low test results on the common vitamin D blood test (measures 25D). The ones who also test the biologically active 1,25D usually report numbers on the high end of the range.

That low/high combination is quite rare in the healthy public, and if you research it you will find very few known causes. It's interesting that so many people with this uncommon combination wind up on this message board.

Sure, some people here don't fit the profile above, but many of us do. To me that's very interesting data, and something from which each of us can draw his/her own theories and conclusions.

Posts: 727 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DoctorLuddite
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 13853

Icon 1 posted      Profile for DoctorLuddite     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The question that should be pondered (and perhaps, even if pondered, never answered) is the chicken/egg one. Is NK activity suppressed because of lyme or is lyme a problem because NK activity is suppressed? Alot of the chronic lyme info that is promulgated empowers that microorganism with unusual abilities. Not that BB infection isn't dangerous, but the post acute infection syndrome has such protean variability in its manifestation, it mandates careful inquiry.
I believe NK activity has been shown to be improved with vitamin D. I disagree with the Linus Pauling post that 25 hydroxy has no biological activity, overall function will tend to be better if 25 hydroxy is midrange, but a high 1,25 is a condition that needs evaluation especially if it occurs with a normal 25 hydroxy level. Maybe, dguy, there is a post lyme effect that upregulates 1 alpha hydroxylase in the kidney so that 25 hydroxy gets used up very quickly and 1,25 levels run high...

Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Truthfinder     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Doc, from what you've said, it seems to me that if NK levels are improved with increased Vitamin D intake, then whether the low NK activity was from Lyme or pre-existed before Lyme, I think the conclusion is the same: The added Vitamin D did NOT further suppress NK levels.

Which, perhaps, could cast some doubt on the theories under which dguy is operating, at least when it comes to Lyme Disease.

dguy, reduced inflammation/pain from taking Vitamin D does not demonstrate that the result is from a steroid/immune suppression effect. Ginger and Tumeric can reduce inflammation and also increase immune response, so we have to dig deeper on this.

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�.

Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DoctorLuddite
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 13853

Icon 1 posted      Profile for DoctorLuddite     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Not NK levels, NK activity...
Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Truthfinder     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
DocL, are you saying that the CD-57 test checks for activity rather than NK levels?

I just called my doc's office and talked to the lab person.... she can't find the CD-57 test listed. I gave her a test code number, and her computer won't accept it.

She's going to try to call LabCorp and see what they say....

So, perhaps I can't get a CD-57 test here in Podunk anyway.

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�.

Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DoctorLuddite
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 13853

Icon 1 posted      Profile for DoctorLuddite     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
No, I'm saying that you are interested in the function of the cell type, ie: bactericidal activity among other things of NK cells. The absolute # of the type of cells may mean little if they are unable to do the job they are produced for...on the other hand, you can't expect 1 cell to do the work of 10, any more than you can expect that in people. So numbers matter, too.
Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DoctorLuddite
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 13853

Icon 1 posted      Profile for DoctorLuddite     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
dguy, you made a good point. If many lyme sufferers have low hydroxy D levels and high dihydroxy D levels, and the tendency is for symptoms to abate with D supplements, then we have something consistent to add to our diagnostic criteria, as well as to our therapeutic options.

So many docs put people with low D levels on supplements without following through on retesting to ensure that the supplements are being absorbed, and whether or not their symptoms change relative to a change in D level is not tracked.

Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
dguy
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 8979

Icon 1 posted      Profile for dguy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Truthfinder:

dguy, reduced inflammation/pain from taking Vitamin D does not demonstrate that the result is from a steroid/immune suppression effect.

That's true, but it remains the most simple and logical conclusion. I don't think there's anyone here (with possible exception of Marnie) equipped to do the actual research, so we have to decide for ourselves based on our own experiences. For me D acts just like a steroid. Reducing my intake of it allowed more herx to occur.

If D boosts NK activity, would that not promote more Bb killing? In that case, we'd herx more rather than less with D. Might work for some people, but most report less symptoms with D.

Regarding theraputic use of D, I can imagine that possible appropriate when inflammation grows so bad that there is risk of permanent injury. But, as with steroids more powerful than D, it will be tough to wean from.

Posts: 727 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DoctorLuddite
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 13853

Icon 1 posted      Profile for DoctorLuddite     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Your symptoms fluctuate, and anything untoward is considered herxing, when such changes may in actuality represent fluctuations in cytokines or interleukins rather than bacterial die off, which can happen when Vit. D levels are on the way up or down. The idea behind D therapy is to get to a decent D level and maintain that level.

It is considered a seco-steroid, and when maintained at normal levels it regulates the immune system, meaning it stimulates or suppresses based on demand. Too high and too low a D level are extremes to avoid.

This becomes most painfully evident in the fifth decade for most, some a little sooner, others a bit later, when growth hormone drops to a critical threshhold.

Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dave6002
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9064

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Dave6002     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
There is a new reason for the 76 million baby boomers to grab a glass of milk. Vitamin D, a key nutrient in milk, could have aging benefits linked to reduced inflammation, according to a new study published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.

In a genetic study of more than 2,100 female twin pairs ages 19-79, British and American researchers found that higher vitamin D levels were linked to improved genetic measures of lifelong aging and chronic stress. Using a genetic marker called leukocyte telomere length (LTL), they found those with the highest vitamin D levels had longer LTL, indicating lower levels of inflammation and body stress. The telomere difference between those with the highest and lowest vitamin D levels was equivalent to 5 years of aging.

Previous research has found that shortened LTL is linked to risk for heart disease and could be an indication of chronic inflammation - a key determinant in the biology of aging. While there are several lifestyle factors that affect telomere length (obesity, smoking and lack of physical activity), the researchers noted that boosting vitamin D levels is a simple change to affect this important marker.

Studies continue to link vitamin D to an array of health benefits, securing vitamin D's ``super nutrient'' status and providing even more reasons to get adequate amounts of this essential vitamin. Recent research suggests that beyond its well-established role in bone health, vitamin D also may help reduce the risk of certain cancers and autoimmune diseases, such as type 1 diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis and multiple sclerosis.

Milk is a primary source of calcium and vitamin D in the American diet. In fact, government reports indicate that more than 70 percent of the calcium in our nation's food supply comes from milk and milk products. Additionally, milk is one of the few food sources of vitamin D, which is fast emerging as a ``super nutrient.''

The recommended three servings of low fat or fat-free milk provides 900 mg of calcium, 300 IU of vitamin D and 80 mg of magnesium daily.

http://www.webershandwick.com
S


Vitamin d and diet.
Submitted by Anonymous on Fri, 2007-11-09 06:20.

In his paper "Human serum 25-hydroxycholecalciferol response to extended oral dosing with cholecalciferol" Heaney established the body uses between 3000 and 5000iu of Vitamin D daily.
Each glass of milk at best only contains 100iu of vitamin D2.Basic maths should enable you to work out what percentage of your daily amount of Vitamin D 3 glasses will provide.
90% of our Vitamin D3 has to come from direct exposure to sunshine or Vitamin D3 supplements.
Relying on milk for vitamin d is unreliable.
Independent testing has shown it usually has less than the stated amount and often has very little.
"The Case Against Ergocalciferol (Vitamin D2) as a vitamin Supplement" provides the research detailing the fact that D2 has only a third- a quarter the effect that D3 has so 100iu of D2, if in fact you milk is fully fortifies, is equivalent to 25-33iu of the natural D3 your body needs.
The matter is made worse by the knowledge that for older people in particular D2 isn't well absorbed if it is absorbed at all.
In order to raise vitamin d status Cholecalciferol Vitamin D3 has to be used and each 400iu will raise status by 9nmol/L.
So to raise status from 40nmol/L to above 80nmol/L the level at which calcium uptake is maximised and colon cancer incidence reduced by 72%, requires around 2000iu of D3. Risk Assessment for Vitamin D sets out the science supporting a safe upper limit of 10,000iu/daily.

Posts: 1078 | From Fairland | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DoctorLuddite
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 13853

Icon 1 posted      Profile for DoctorLuddite     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If you could get raw milk that is obtained from a cow that grazes on grass under the sun all day, you might get some cholecalciferol. Commercially produced and D2 supplemented milk is probably bad for the Lyme patient whose gut flora has been disturbed by antibiotic use and whose gut lining is impaired by anti-inflammatory use. The best source of vitamin D has always and will always be PRUDENT sun exposure. Next best is the vitamin D in cod liver oil, preventing rickets since 1824.
Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831

Icon 1 posted      Profile for oxygenbabe     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
drluddite--first of all thanks for the cogent answer about cytokines, I was going to make that point myself. Much harm has been done in the name of "herx"....which was not herx.

I use raw dairy from an Amish farmer, but only pick it up once a month. I tend to prefer the raw cheese and the colostrum, the milk is too sugary for me. It did not occur to me that raw dairy was a source of Vitamin D so I'll research that.

Cod liver oil, from what I've read, is stripped of its natural vit a and vit d and they are added back in. I haven't yet been able to find a "real" cod liver oil, which would be my preference, as otherwise I might as well use supplements.

I was using Vitamin D in olive oil (a pure formulation) but it tastes rather yucky I must admit. I wish there were a more natural way to obtain my vitamin D as I really don't know what level is optimal for *my* body...I found 1000 units at this point (with my 38 ng/ml or whatever the measurements were) a bit too much. I could feel it. So I may drop down to 200 units for now 3x a week. It seems to me that by January is when most of us on the East Coast are going to run into trouble. Which is probably why people love to take quickie vacations in the Carribean in the middle of winter.

Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DoctorLuddite
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 13853

Icon 1 posted      Profile for DoctorLuddite     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I have not heard that A and D are stripped from cod liver oil, the oil is distilled from the livers of cod, but I have heard that D fortified CLO has an added D, which could be ergocalciferol. Also, there is a lanolin or wool oil derived D and the bioactivity of that is suspect in my experience. Vitamin D should transfer from cow to udder to milk in the way that it moves from mother to breast to milk in humans but it has to be in the mother to begin with. A vitamin D deficient mother to be will birth a vitamin D deficient baby.
Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
gwenb
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 7217

Icon 1 posted      Profile for gwenb     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
This is the cod liver oil I use - I find it most excellent. If you compare the Vit D and A you get from this completely natural cod liver oil you will notice there is a substantial difference in the levels of A and D that you get from most commercial cod liver oils. I got most of my Vit D in the summer from sun (I was careful not to over do it)

http://www.drrons.com/cod-liver-oil.htm

Gwen

Posts: 227 | From vancouver,bc | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Truthfinder     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I see your point about NK cell levels versus activity, DocL - thanks for clarifying.

dguy, I have to disagree that it is a ``logical conclusion'' to assume that Vitamin D is acting like a true steroid when inflammation/ pain is reduced. Apparently, part of your conclusion is based upon the increased herx effect when Vitamin D intake is minimized, and I've never subscribed totally to the `herxing indicates Bb is being killed' theory, or that most unpleasant effects from treatment constitute ``herxing'', or even that one must ``herx'' in order to get well from a bacterial infection.

And especially since stopping D supplementation alone can cause discomfort. I'm not on antibiotics or any other drugs for Lyme, nor have I ever been. The supplements I am currently taking have never caused a herx before adding Vitamin D, so we can't say I am ``herxing'' because I stopped taking Vitamin D.

If having pain and feeling lousy constitute a herx, then we were all in a herx state before we were ever diagnosed. I'm not sure we can attribute those symptoms solely to die-off as opposed to what the organism itself is doing to us.

DocL and Oxygenbabe make specific points about this, and I have my own theories founded in different systems of medicine.

If my logic is flawed here, I'm sure someone will be happy to point that out. [Smile]

Furthermore, we have not even considered the botulin-like toxin Bb creates as a product of its own metabolism, and what role that toxin plays in reactions to treatment, including the `herx' effect. You can't ``kill'' a toxin.

Oxygenbabe, thanks for pointing out the issue about most commercial cold liver oil. I did notice that on the Carlson Fish Oil I give my dog, it says right on the bottle that it is ``Vitamin A and D free''. I did sort of expect at least a bit of Vitamin A in there........

Oh, BTW, after 3 calls to Labcorp, my doc's office figured out that they can do the CD-57 test for me. They have to order some additional blood tubes, so it will be at least a week. Meanwhile, I guess I'll cut way down on the Vitamin D3 until then (at an attempt to get a `baseline' test), and I'm not looking forward to reducing the D3, let me tell you.

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�.

Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
jarjar
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 8847

Icon 1 posted      Profile for jarjar     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Vitamin D may not reduce cancer deaths By LAURAN NEERGAARD, AP Medical Writer
1 hour, 52 minutes ago


A large new study found no sign that vitamin D lowers the overall risk of dying from cancer, injecting a note of caution to the latest vitamin craze. The exception: People with more vitamin D in their blood did have a significantly lower risk of death from colorectal cancer, supporting earlier findings.

Getting enough of the so-called sunshine vitamin -- the skin makes it from ultraviolet rays -- is vital for strong bones. But vitamin D has made headlines in recent years because of research saying it may be a powerful cancer fighter, sparking a push for people to get more than currently recommended amounts, either through diet or sun exposure.

The first-of-a-kind government study released Tuesday shows the issue is far from settled.

National Cancer Institute researchers analyzed vitamin D levels measured in almost 17,000 people as part of a national study that tracked their health. About a decade after enrolling, 536 of those people had died of cancer. Whether people had low or high vitamin D levels played no role in their risk of dying from cancer in general, they reported Tuesday in the Journal of the National Cancer Institute.

Then the researchers examined different types of cancer. There were just 66 deaths from colorectal cancer. Still, people with high levels of vitamin D appeared 72 percent less likely to die of colorectal cancer than people with the lowest vitamin D levels.

"While vitamin D may well have multiple benefits beyond bone, health professionals and the public should not, in a rush to judgment, assume that vitamin D is a magic bullet and consume high amounts," Johanna Dwyer, a dietary supplement specialist at the National Institutes of Health, cautioned in an accompanying editorial.

Indeed, there are numerous risk factors for colorectal cancer, including obesity and low physical activity, and it's unclear if low vitamin D levels play an independent role or are just a marker for those other risks, she said.

Scientists have been interested in vitamin D's effects for decades, since noticing that cancer rates between similar groups of people were lower in sunny southern latitudes than in northern ones. A handful of studies since then have found people given vitamin D supplements have less risk of developing certain cancers, but much of the evidence is circumstantial.

Experts are cautious because other vitamins and nutrient supplements once widely thought to prevent cancer didn't pan out when put to rigorous testing.

The NCI's study is the first to compare blood levels of vitamin D to cancer mortality, and "it's the best research we have on this topic," said Dr. Len Lichtenfeld of the American Cancer Society.

But a big weakness: It measured vitamin D at just one point in participants' lives, when levels can vary widely with dietary changes and especially the seasons.

Overall, most research "seems to be pointing in the direction that there is a role of vitamin D," Lichtenfeld said. Tuesday's study "puts a note of caution in there that says with all the explosion of information and advocacy on behalf of vitamin D, we need to be cautious. ... We really need some further studies that are well done to answer the question."

Posts: 805 | From Utopia | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DoctorLuddite
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 13853

Icon 1 posted      Profile for DoctorLuddite     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
to look at vitamin D as the only factor in all these different cancers is ludicrous, but to not look at it is even worse...

[ 16. November 2007, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: DoctorLuddite ]

Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
gwenb
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 7217

Icon 1 posted      Profile for gwenb     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
In regards to the previous post "Vitamin D may not reduce cancer deaths." It is my understanding there was a significant flaw in the study because the researchers only measured Vit D levels one time. Vitamin D levels fluctuate significantly so a one time measurement is not enough to draw any substantive conclusions.

Gwen

Posts: 227 | From vancouver,bc | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831

Icon 1 posted      Profile for oxygenbabe     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Cod Liver Oil:

http://www.wildernessfamilynaturals.com/cod-liver-oil.htm

This talks about fake cod liver oils etc.

"What is Cod Liver Oil?
Cod liver oil is thin, pale-yellow oil that was originally made from the fresh livers of codfish. Today the standards allow for an incredible amount of variation and ``cheating'' among manufacturers. Unfortunately, any fish oil can be ``manufactured'' into cod liver oil as long as it meets certain basic criteria. Yes, cod liver oil can actually come from many different varieties of fish and often does. In order to be called cod liver oil, the requirement is that the oil must be from fish (any oily fish), be at or above certain vitamin A and vitamin E levels, and contain certain minimum levels of DHA and EPA. This means synthetic and/or natural vitamins are often added to concentrated fish oils (which are cheaper and easier to obtain than cod liver oil), and the oil is then sold as cod liver oil. Hence, today, much of the ``cod liver oil'' that is purchased by unsuspecting consumers is not really coming from the livers of codfish and is very likely not the product researchers such as Dr. Weston A. Price used in the early 1900's. Most cod liver oil is actually a mixture of oils from the livers of cod and other fish with vitamins added. Some cod liver oil manufacturers actually decrease the vitamin A content and then add synthetic vitamin A back to reach the values listed on their supplement facts panel. Most, if not all, manufacturers (other than Wilderness Family Naturals) molecularly distill their cod liver oil and add soy-based tocopherols and/or synthetic vitamin E, as well as synthetic vitamin A and D. This, unfortunately, is true even if the added items are not listed on the label."

I must admit I've learned so much about agribusiness, and even the lies in the organic food business, that I wouldn't necessarily trust a website. I'd have to call myself. For instance, I'm almost certain just from reading WFN website that they do NOT manufacture the oil, they are repackaging it from someone else. I'll call and find out. If it's true cod liver oil it's still valid.

Take olive oil. Turns out that it's often adulterated with unhealthy oils that are much cheaper, and then chlorophyll is added in to give it color. I had wondered in recent years why the olive oil didn't taste as good. Then the New Yorker did a big expose. They make as much money as in cocaine trafficking. So I use bionature. I specifically called the company and spoke to them about the article and asked about their growers and was satisfied.

Edit: I did just call them. They had a manufacturer who was doing it to their specifications, where they did not add in any vitamins, just used the real cod liver oil, and they were spot testing it and they felt the quality had degraded (z polite way of saying the source began to cheat/cut corners). So they are looking around for a new source and believe they've found one but for now they do not have real cod liver oil and in fact nobody else in this country probably does.

To the one using dr. ron's--it's just fish oil with vitamins added. Its a lot of marketing hype and hooey and he's more a businessman than a doctor as far as I'm concerned.

Eventually WFN will have real cod liver oil, maybe sometime in the next few months, once the deal is stabilized. They sound like a very trustworthy company.

Those buying expensive cod liver oils could get very cheap vitamin a and d supplements at their corner CVS.

Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Truthfinder     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thank you very kindly, Oxygenbabe. I'm sure very few people know what you have just explained, and how would they!

Good grief.

For 9 years, I gave my dog a small amount of canned mackerel every day. He had a beautiful, shiny black coat. Then he developed a couple of odd health problems, and I became worried about Mercury issues and quit the mackeral, deciding finally to give a bit of fish oil every day to combat the effects of our dry climate.

I may go back to using the canned mackerel. Near as I can tell, there are still real fish in the can. [Cool]

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�.

Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dave6002
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9064

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Dave6002     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
As other pointed out that Vitamin D is very different from other vitamins, in that VD in directly involved in gene regulation.

Therefor too much or too little may cause dyregulation of genes, leading to malfunction of the cell.

As the editor pointed out VD is not a magic bullet.

Posts: 1078 | From Fairland | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
dguy
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 8979

Icon 1 posted      Profile for dguy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
There's no shortage of evidence from many sources: googling

"vitamin D" steroid

generates over 1 million results.

An Occam's razor club could be helpful, but perhaps a more pun-appropriate name for what so many of us have experienced from the medical field would be the "Duck club":

Bioactive vitamin D is a steroid. Steroids are often used to supress the immune system. When I take vitamin D, it acts on me just like a steroid. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

Posts: 727 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DoctorLuddite
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 13853

Icon 1 posted      Profile for DoctorLuddite     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You aren't clear about just how it acts on you, but it seems from previous posts that you feel better when you go on it then worse again when you go off. Since it is the one hormone in our system that under normal circumstances we can manipulate to a higher level by being outdoors in the sun more, and can force to a lower level by using sunscreen and or avoiding sun, if you feel better on it you should stay on it or consciously try to get more sunshine, or both.
Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831

Icon 1 posted      Profile for oxygenbabe     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Dguy, once again (you've ignored my point so far) steroid is *not* synonymous with glucocorticoid even though it seems to be in your mind, as you are equating all steroid hormones with immune suppression.

It doesn't seem to matter what research others cite.

The steroid hormone signalling system is ancient--you find it in everything from nitrogen fixing bacteria to mollusks to humans.

Estrogen and progesterone are steroid hormones.
So are glucocorticoids--and that's what you mean when you say "steroids are often used to suppress the immune system."

You don't mean estrogen, now do you? No, you mean cortisone.

Just because you feel better on Vitamin D does not mean its suppressing healthy immune function, to the contrary from all the evidence you can find in a search of the scientific and clinical literature it seems to increase immune function.

Try to stop using the word steroid as equivalent with immune suppressing. Try to remember there are five steroid hormones and Vitamin D is now considered in *some ways* to be analagous to a sixth, though it is not strictly such.

Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | LymeNet home page | Privacy Statement

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:

The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey
907 Pebble Creek Court, Pennington, NJ 08534 USA


| Flash Discussion | Support Groups | On-Line Library
Legal Resources | Medical Abstracts | Newsletter | Books
Pictures | Site Search | Links | Help/Questions
About LymeNet | Contact Us

© 1993-2020 The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.
Use of the LymeNet Site is subject to Terms and Conditions.