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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Artiminisin Alone for Babs

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Author Topic: Artiminisin Alone for Babs
painted turtle
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Can babs be fought by artiminisin alone?

I have been doing the mepron/zith combo with the artiminisin and really am ready to stop the mepron and zith part even though I know I still have the babs.

Will discuss with Doc soon, but does anyone have any experience with this??

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david1097
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The only definative data is from treatment of malria... malaria becomes resistant to the mono drug regime.

Why not try something like larium? its only once a week.

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CaliforniaLyme
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Doc H from NY did a study with his patients taking Mepron, Mepron & Art or Art and the Mepron-Art cohort did the best-

that said, I know 2 people who got rid of Babs JUST with Artemisia but they both did it within the first month-!! So their cases were both not entrenched-!!!

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All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer

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bejoy
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I'm pretty sure I have gotten rid of Babesia with artemicin, along with garlic, andrographis, and homeopathics for babs.

I have used artemicin for over a year, with some breaks.

I no longer have any babs symptoms, and have not had for over two months.

I probably had babesia for 20-30 years.

I have not read any research that shows for certain that Artemicin is effective, but I do believe the above combination worked for me.

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bejoy!

"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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micul
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No, it won't get rid of Babs by itself. You would be better using the full herb of Atemesia for a while instead of Artemisinin.

You could also swap Zith for Biaxin, and take Malarone in place of Mep. Adding Bactrin is very good also, but it does take a combo.

A lot depends on how you are taking the Art; what dose / is it away from antioxidants & vitamins.

Hypercoagulation should be addressed at the same time to get at all the hiding buggers. Saunas are very important for breaking down biofilms and allowing for greater penetration of drugs. The high heat can also damage them and make them more susceptable to the drugs.

Live Long and Prosper
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painted turtle
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Thanks for the feedback.

What is the difference between Artemisa and Artiminisin? Why would a dr. presrcibe artiminisin over Artemesia?

I've done mepron/zith for a while now, this is second round attempt and also heparin for the hypercoag. Etc.

I simply want to cut out the pharmaceuticals after about two years of on and off abx for fear of resistance and to think....what if I needed them for something immediately accutely life threatening? Not that this isn't potentially life threatening, just in a much slower way!

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Keebler
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-

Artemisinin is far stronger and more effective than the raw herb artemesia (of which there are many types, not all the same).

Experience is finding that artemisinin is best NOT as a monotherapy. Doctors have found failures in monotherapy with
artemisinin around the world for malaria.

Pharmaceuticals may be added - or other herbal prescriptions.
Studies, and experience show that this aids the effectiveness.

As with many herbal medicines, strength comes from combining with other herbs of specific type and amount.

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[ 13. November 2007, 10:40 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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micul
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Artemesia has properties that the concentrated Artemisinin does not. This is what Dr Z uses, and many Lymenetters like Dave Streeter have found that the whole herb works as good or better. A test trial would be in order to evaluate this for yourself.

Dr B said in his old guidelines to take 1000 mg of Artemesia 2 X's a day. That was probably for the less potent capsules. The newer Nutricology brand now suggests only one capsule twice a day because of the stronger concentration. This is what his new guidelines say:

"Treatment failures usually are related to inadequate atovaquone levels. Therefore, patients who are not cured with this regimen can be retreated with higher doses (and atovaquone blood levels can be checked), as this has proven effective in many of my patients. Artemesia (a
non-prescription herb) should be added in all cases
. Metronidazole or Bactrim can also be added to increase efficacy, but there is minimal clinical data on how much more effective this will be."

Beam Me Up Scotty
 -

[ 14. November 2007, 12:44 AM: Message edited by: micul ]

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yanivnaced
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Artemisia Annua is a very potent broad spectrum, perhaps more so than pharmaceuticals .....

Anamed link

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Keebler
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-

The Anamed link above is very informative. Thanks, yanivnaced

-

Of note is the difference between EXTRACTS of artemesia and the raw herb. If it does not say "extract" it is general the raw plant. The dosage is not anywhere close to the same.

Not speaking here to artemesia, but to herbs in general. However, sometimes you don't want an extract. It all depends upon the knowledge and skill of the herbalist regarding all this.

So, if you try to replicate a protocol, it's important to be aware of the exact form and exact species used. If extracts, there may be a difference between hot water extracts, cold water extracts and alcohol extracts. Chemical extracts (such as with hexane) are to be avoided.

In general, some herbs, whether, raw or extract, use the leaves, some the flowers . . .or stems . . . or root. Different parts of the same plant may have very different properties. The time of the year of harvest, too, may drastically affect the effectiveness or composition. Storage (temp, humidity, etc.) can also influence.
That is why standardized products are so important.

Dr. Z uses the extract, not the raw herb, combined with two other ingredients.

=====================================

key word: ISOLATED, meaning the entire herb is not used

for some formulas/definitions, "isolated" may be the element taken out for use . . . for other purposes, extracts or tinctures, may effectively isolate the desired element in the process of extraction.

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www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemisinin

excerpts from just one source:

Artemisinin (IPA: ) is a drug used to treat multi-drug resistant strains of falciparum malaria. The compound (a sesquiterpene lactone) is isolated from the shrub Artemisia annua long used in traditional Chinese medicine. Not all shrubs of this species contain artemisinin. ...

History

Artemisia has been used by Chinese herbalists for more than a thousand years in the treatment of many illnesses, such as skin diseases and malaria.

The earliest record dates back to 200 BC , in the "Fifty two Prescriptions" unearthed from the Mawangdui Han Dynasty Tombs. Its antimalarial application was first described in Zhouhou Beji Fang ("The Handbook of Prescriptions for Emergencies"), edited in the middle of fourth century by Ge Hong.

In the 1960s a research program was set up by the Chinese army to find an adequate treatment for malaria. In 1972, in the course of this research, Tu Youyou [1] discovered artemisinin in the leaves of Artemisia annua. The drug is named Qinghaosu (Chinese: ???) in Chinese.

It was one of many candidates then tested by Chinese scientists from a list of nearly 200 traditional Chinese medicines for treating malaria. It was the only one that was effective.

cont'd at link above

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[ 13. November 2007, 10:45 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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yanivnaced
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According to "Lyme Disease & Modern Chinese Medicine", Dr.Z's Artemisia capsule contains:

Main herb:
Artemisiae Apiacea Hance or Artemisiae Annua

Auxillary herbs:
Astragalus Membranaceus
Codonopsis Pilosula

I believe his formulations contain extracted & purified active ingredients, so as to standardize the potency.

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micul
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I was refering to Allergy research's (Same as Nutricology) Artemesia as a whole herb. It is an extract also. It has a lot more Art than Dr Z's.

Artemesia
by Nutricology
100 Capsules

For Addressing Specific Microbial Imbalances*

Our Price: $14.70
Retail Price: $27.00
You Save: $12.30 each, a 46% Savings! Add to Cart
SKU: 71160-argN

A concentrated extract of the leaves of Artemisia annua, an herb from the Far East, used for centuries in Chinese medicine for addressing specific microbial imbalances.* Artemisia possesses properties which potentially support balanced intestinal microbiology.*

Additional Information
Many people who have read Dr. Zhang's information, or heard about it from others, unfortunately assumed that he uses 500 mg of Artemesia per capsule. In fact, Dr. Zhang's Artemesia Capsule includes only 33 mg of the active ingredient arteannuin, to be taken three times a day, for a total of 99 mg/day.

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bejoy
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I use a product called Biotox Elim from PRL. It is a tincture containing artemisia annua, berberine, and hydrastine.

I used it in conjunction with another PRL product called SpiroNil, a tincture of teasel root.

I think they are both quite good, as I got quite a herx off them for a long time.

I also think raw garlic is key.

I like artemisia/artemisin/in (pick your most potent form) and garlic especially because they are both antibacterial and antifungal.

They'll fight the bugs and the candida at the same time.

I so agree with the necessity to take enzymes to decrease fibrin, where bugs can hide out. I take a prescription strength Bioset Protease Plus at bed time on empty stomach.

I also hot tub daily at 106.

Am taking a great homeopathic from Deseret Biologicals called Borrelia Remedy, that treats borrelia, Babesia Microti, and Ehrlicia.

I did also take a fair amount of metronidazole in the mix as well.

Never did take mepron or zith.

Hard to say for sure what got my Babs in the end, but I'm certain the artemisin played a major role.

--------------------
bejoy!

"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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winelyme
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I'm taking PC-NONI 15 drops 3x a day, worked up to that, and a

Bab's herbal tincture from the Dr. as well as Nutricology Artemisinin

pulse every 3 weeks at 400mg 3x a day. It has been working great

for me. It has been 8 weeks. I'm also doing Bicillin shots once a

week. Remeber most pharmacuticals are made to duplicate herbs

and other natural products. Hope this helps!!!!!!

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