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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Hypercoagulation (Thickened Blood)

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Author Topic: Hypercoagulation (Thickened Blood)
AGuess
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Hi everyone.

I have tested low on Protein C and Protein S.

This results in thick blood and causes fibrin to be deposited in the small blood vessels.


This can either be caused by a chronic condition or by a genetic defect.

The theory is that the fibrin coating the capillaries and producing thick blood can make bacteria less accessible to treatment.

The treatment is to thin the blood and there are a few ways to do this. Heparin, Fish Oils with EPA, Cinnamon, Vitamin E and Fibrinolytic Enzymes.

My questions are:

Do any of you have this Hypercoagulation and if yes, how have you treated it?

I would like to stay away from Heparin.

What levels of fish oil with EPA should I take?

Thank you.

AGuess

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sparkle7
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My doctor has given me a supplement called Enzalase - http://www.enzalase.net/

I think if you take it in between meals on an empty stomach it can function as an anti-fibrinoletic (I'm not sure if that's the correct term - I'm not a scientist but I think you understand).

I'm also taking Theralac - http://www.theralac.com/

I have heard you can take Boluoke (lumbrokinase) or Nattokinase. Boluoke is expensive, though.

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djf2005
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nattokinase

better then heparin and not nearly as harmful

--------------------
"Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."

[email protected]

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Rianna
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Some docs say 80% of there patients have hypercoagulation with Lyme

I am on Heparin for this

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Aniek
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I take nattokinase. It's a an enzyme derived from soy.

I also take 2 Plavix a week.

--------------------
"When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison

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SForsgren
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It is likely that nearly everyone with chronic Lyme has hypercoagulation to some extent. The bugs trigger the body to create fibrin which further protects the bugs.

I have used Rechts Regulat, Lubrokinase, Bulouke, and more recently Nutramedix Serrapeptase.

I also did heparin for several months but probably would not do it again. Cholesterol went way up and I experienced some unusual endocrine shifts that resolved after cessation of heparin.

--------------------
Be well,
Scott

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Rianna
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Heparin for me was the one thing that got me out of bed, it can be very difficult for patients to rid the body of these infection without treating the Fibrogen Defect.

Endocrine shifts can be seen with heparin as it will enable hormones and hormone medication to be delivered correctly and also enable T4 to be converted to the active form T3, therefore it can lift metabolism to optimum levels - many patients may have to decrease medications.

The benefits of heparin for many patients are vast - my husband switched off his prostate cancer with the anti inflammatory properties of heparin, his oncologist was astounded.

Studies have found that approximately 80% of patients have this low level activation of the clotting system. This low level activation does not produce a blood clot, but rather an intermediate substance called a soluble fibrin monomer (SFM).

This coats the inside of the blood vessel and limits oxygen and nutrient flow into the cells. The SFM coating not only limits the oxygen and nutrient flow, but it also provides a place for the spirochete to "hide" and escape destruction by the immune system/antibiotic.

Thus, it can be very difficult for patients to rid the body of these infection without treating the Fibrogen Defect.

Diagnosis is made by the use of a specialized test called an ISAC (Immune System Activation of Clotting) panel, which measures platelet activation, soluble fibrin monomer, fibrinogen, prothrombin fragment 1 +2 and thrombin/antithrombin complexes. Treatment is low dose heparin and substances to break up the fibrin as well as elimination of the initiating agent, whether it is a virus, bacteria, yeast or toxin.

Intervention can be from several weeks to a number of months, if treating with antibiotics Heparin should be continued for the duration of antibiotic treatment.

Growth-Inhibitory Effect of Heparin on Babesia Parasites There is some very current information and an actual study showing that heparin may erradicate Babesia all on it's own and the same may hold true for Lyme- Sabine Bork,1 Naoaki Yokoyama,1 Yuzuru Ikehara,2 Sanjay Kumar,1 Chihiro Sugimoto,1 and Ikuo Igarashi:

We examined the inhibitory effects of three heparins on the growth of Babesia parasites. The multiplication of Babesia bovis, B. bigemina, B. equi, and B. caballi in in vitro cultures and that of B. microti in vivo were significantly inhibited in the presence of heparins, as determined by light microscopy.

Treatment with various concentrations of heparin showed complete clearance of the intracellular parasites. Interestingly, a higher percentage of abnormally multidividing B. bovis parasites was observed in the presence of low concentrations of heparin. Furthermore, fluorescein isothiocyanate-labeled heparin was preferably found on the surfaces of extracellular merozoites, as detected by confocal laser scanning microscopy. These findings indicate that the heparin covers the surfaces of babesial merozoites and inhibits their subsequent invasion of erythrocytes.

http://aac.asm.org/cgi/reprint/48/1/236.pdf
Rianna

[ 16. January 2008, 08:15 AM: Message edited by: Rianna ]

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Jellybelly
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I first used heparin, then found NattoK which works REALLY good and kept my blood thin and clean for several years.

Recently I went back on heparin, not because the Natto wasn't doing what it should but because heparin does some things that I don't believe Natto does.

Heparin also seems to kill Babesia all on it's own. A very strong reason to use heparin if you are infected with babesia as well. I have posted some info on this subject in the past.

I was very sick and looked it. I have used very little abx, primarily Mino at micro doses. Heparin is the only drug I have used very long term and I am in remission at about 85-90% and have been this way for close to 5 or 6 years.

I have been infected since I was about 13 and I am 51 now. I feel better now then I have most of my life. I believe heparin has had something to do with my sustained remission.

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lymeout
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My daughter has a Protein S deficiency and did take Lovenox for several months. I am assuming when you talk about heparin, you are talking about the low-molecular form - lovenox.

She did very well on it, and followed it up with Boluoke, which she still takes. She still has a port in her chest, and her blood draws are great - no thickness or darkened color.

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Lymetoo
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I have it. I take Rutozyme, but used to take heparin. Tried natto...killed my stomach...soy...yuck.

Boluoke is great...yes, pricey. Have also taken serrapeptase.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Munch
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I LOVE LOVE LOVE heparin. I've been on it since Oct 15th. My brain fog improved within 10 minutes and muscle pain in 45 minutes. My doc will have a real fight on his hands to get me to quit taking it.

I have not experienced any changes in hormone levels while on heparin either way. All of my hormones were low to begin with thanks to Bb & Co. I'm on HGH, compounded T3, hydrocortisone, DHEA, melatonin, estradiol and testosterone pellets, and progesterone days 17-27.

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lymex5&counting
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Just last week my 12 and 15 year old boys did the MOCHA test. But haven't gotten back the results yet.

I assume they will do the Heparin Troches if needed because they won't let me near them with a needle.

Why wouldn't you want to do Heparin? My mother and 4 children's Dr has patients herxing on it.

And like others said improving brain fog and fatigue.

I have done the Natto but I agree with Lymetoo about the soy.

I personally take the Fish oil with 3-6-9, but I that is what I test best on through ART.

I have also used the Rechts-Regulat.

I have to use transdermals on them for Magnesium, Glutathione, etc. I was just about to order the Methyl B-12 transdermal has anyone used it?

Does anyone know is the only way to make the Heparin work for hypercoagulation, fatigue, and killing Babs to do it by Troche or Sub Q? I can't see the 5ml I put in my PICC twice a day doing much. Should I ask my Dr for more? Or doesn't it work by that pathway?

Thanks, lyme x 9

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feelfit
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5ml in your PICC is not a theraputic dose of Heparin, that is why it isn't noticeable. I'm not sure WHAT the theraputic dose is, but I think in the 1000 mg range? Anyone?
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Lymetoo
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Does anyone know is the only way to make the Heparin work for hypercoagulation, fatigue, and killing Babs to do it by Troche or Sub Q?

================================

I think that's the only way.

I used to take 11,000 units of heparin twice a day in a troche.

I used the injections until something in the solution caused an allergic reaction.


Feelfit is right about the small amount you are using.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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lymex5&counting
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Lymetoo so the troches do work?

I would do shots but the boys won't.

I know mine isn't doing anything but keeping my PICC from clotting.

But I don't think it is even okay to use the central line as a way of delivery. I think the most is something like 3 flushes a day of 10ml approx?

Thanks, lyme x 9

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Lymetoo
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They work...pretty expensive though.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Cass A
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I've taken nattokinase, Vitalzym, Rechts Regulat, and another multiple-enzyme product.

At one point, when I wasn't taking any, the person taking my blood could hardly get enough for a sample! YUK!!

I believe they helped--certainly, at my last blood draw, there was no such problem. If they had any effect on Lyme or the co-infections, well, don't know about that.

Best,

Cass A

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yanivnaced
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What about niacin - the type that causes the "Niacin Flush".

It doesn't thin the blood but it does dilate all the capillaries in your body.

This causes more blood and oxygen to flow to parts of your body that might be "starved".

From personal experience, your entire body will itch like crazy during the Flush, but it feels rejuvenating afterwards.

Anybody else taking Niacin??

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yanivnaced
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More on Niacin (an old post from the venerable GiGi)

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=039920

quote:
Your doctor should have explained what to expect when taking niacin, especially if you have not taken it before. It could frighten you if you are not familiar with it. Maybe he should try it him/herself if they have never done so. I had a friend who took a couple of grams shortly before she was going through one of the New York tunnels into the city -------- she wasn't sure she would make it!! But of course she did
It's sort of nice to do that with your doctor's approval.

Yes, it should be the flush-type niacin. The slow release does not accomplish what you want it to do. It's been found to be a very potent antibiotic for Lyme Disease in high doses.

You need to go up to at least 3 grams per day (3000 mg). Patients start usually with 500 mg, and they get the niacin flush afterward. You are probably going to look red, feel hot, and maybe you feel like scratching. That may take 15 min. or an hour. Just make sure you get through the first flush, and take another pill in half an hour or an hour, or afterward.

The histamine release and release of substances that cause the niacin flush comes from the mast cells, and once they are emptied, you can take all the niacin in the world and there won't be anymore flush. It takes a while to build it up, and if you keep taking a regular dose of niacin afterward, within 3-4 days, you can be on 3 grams a day. (We went to 6,000 mg divided over the day for a long time.)

Niacin is also now taken for cardiac care to elevate HDL levels (high density lipoprotein levels). It has a great effect in turning on the shuttle system across the cell wall for heavy metals. That's called reverse cholesterol transport. In short, by taking high doses of niacin, it basically removes used-up cholesterol from inside of the cells and carries out all the toxins with it. Niacin is great for that. When someone is tested with ART while they are in a niacin flush, the heavy metals really show up. So it should be combined with high doses of chlorella and a bit of cilantro and it is a great way to detox and treating Lyme at the same time.

That was basically what we did.

Take care.


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lymex5&counting
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Thanks for all the responses! Not meaning to hijack this post. There is also a post from December 07 on the subject.


I got back the results. This was the MOCHA from Hemex Labs.

The Reference ranges show 18 to 60 years of age??

The boys are 12 and 15.

So I am hoping this was worth it.

The 12 year old came right back in the middle of all 4 tests. So completely NORMAL. Which I had pretty much assumed.

It is the 15 year old that came back middle range on all but the 1st test the

Fibrinogen Activity should be 180-310

His result was 448

It is recommended he have a CBC (which is done routinely anyway while on abx)

and a PTT with INR (I have no idea what that is)

And they need his present weight about 186, he is 6'1".

So in my opinion I would say yes to the Troches!!

Well, he is currently on Doxy , then

moves to
Ceftin then does the Babs treatment that

cycles in Plaquenil .

ALL CONTRAINDICATED!

I must say I am disappointed I spent the $489 on

each test and he can't even take Heparin. I

wonder if he is even getting benefit from the

abx with his blood so thick?

In the mean time I am wondering will I have to

repeat this test before they decide to do the

Heparin. The blood was drawn in the office after

the papers of the next 5 drugs were decided. I

feel cheated. They should have said let's do it

at the next visit.

I was going to ask my LLMD this week for Heparin injections. I am so fatigued. I don't feel like my thyroid or methyl b-12 inj do anything for me anymore. But Rocephin is contraindicated as well.

The list:
Amoxicillin
Augmentin
Ceftin
Cefaclor
Doxycycline
Minocycline
Penicillin
Plaquenil
Rocephin
Suprax
Tetracycline

Does anyone know the half life of Plaquenil and Heparin? Maybe he can start the Troches when he is cycling the Babesia meds?

Frustrated and feeling [confused] So are some of

you saying the Heparin will or can also effect

the hormones and thyroid. Both are currently on

Armour and we are getting ready to do some blood

blood hormone testing on both thru the local lab

I couldn't swing the urine endocrine panel right

now.

Thanks, lyme x 9

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