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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » lyme in venison?

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Author Topic: lyme in venison?
catskillmamala
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My friend gave my family a venison roast. Is lyme transmissable through eating deer meat?

This may not be the right place to ask, but you folks are so knowledgeable, I was hoping someone could point me to some scientific research.

She tells me she'll be upset if we don't eat it, but hello? Half my household is sick with Lyme and I am NOT going to be pressured into it.

We like venison, however, and I would like to use it. Does cooking kill spirochetes (and other tbd) and if so, what tempurature is necessary?

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joalo
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Would freezing it kill the bacteria???

--------------------
Sick since January 1985. Misdiagnosed for 20 years. Tested CDC positive October 2005. Treating since April 2006.

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sixgoofykids
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If you heat the meat properly, it will kill the spirochetes. Just a "normal" temperature for meat .... just as you would beef, pork, etc.

Hasn't it been posted that something like 108 degrees kills the Lyme? I'd cook the roast to a nice medium. [Smile]

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CaliforniaLyme
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Babesiosis is!!!!

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von
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Freezing won't kill it from what I have read...

Survival of Borrelia burgdorferi in blood products.

American Red Cross Blood Services, Farmington, Connecticut.

`The organism was shown to survive in RBCs (4 degrees C) and FFP (below -18 degrees C) for 45 days ....'

BUT with cooking I think it is fine. I am real careful the raw meat. (any kind of meat, from anywhere) I use latex disposable gloves, and never use a wooden cutting board.

Wild game, in my opinion, is the best for you. It is lean from all that running around, no cheicals, and only the healthiest survive....

The gene pool has got to be more disease resistant...... Humm this is probably why the deer don't have lyme symptoms. [Razz]

My husband hunted antelope this year. I worry a lot more about him trying to find the critters and carrying it to the truck. (as far as getting lyme/risk of tick bite)

The burger makes terrific tacos..... and my lab test show my iron levels are increasing. I am almost in normal! I have had long standing anemia with my battle with babs.

So I say bring on the wild game!

Von

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Carol in PA
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Chronic Wasting Disease has been found in deer in New York state.

Status of Chronic Wasting Disease in NY
(Scroll down to map at the bottom of the page, which shows the affected counties.)


Chronic Wasting is the deer and elk equivalent of Mad Cow Disease.

[Frown]

[ 22. January 2008, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: Carol in PA ]

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luvdogs
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Good topic - I have always wondered about eating venison! It is so yummy - but...
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treepatrol
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just cook it well with onions at 350 for 4 hrs and it will be totally yummy and safe from lyme but cwd is a different story.

--------------------
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.

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Tracy9
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Eat the deer and get even. As long as it is cooked it would be great. Many animal meats have bacteria and other that is eliminated durring cooking.

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13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG.

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treepatrol
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol in PA:
Chronic Wasting Disease has been found in deer in New York state.

Status of Chronic Wasting Disease in NY
(Scroll down to map at the bottom of the page, which shows the affected counties.)


Chronic Wasting is the deer and elk equivalent of Mad Cow Disease.

[Frown]

carol those deer were brought to a farm from out west.

--------------------
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.

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Dayle Ann
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Deer don't get Lyme. They are hosts for "deer" tick (properly black-legged tick) in the winter time, but generally drop off in the spring. Ticks pick up Lyme and other TICK BORNE DISEASES from rodents. If there are no deer, the ticks simply live with rodents or seek cover for the winter.

If a deer is sick, don't eat it. If it's healthy, just don't eat the brain. Cook the meat thoroughly, as you should with any meat.

Personally, I'd rather eat wild meat than meat grown on a factory farm. It's safer.

Dayle Ann

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ByronSBell 2007
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106 degree F will the the lyme bacteria. Cooking temperatures are much higher than that!
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Carol in PA
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Originally posted by treepatrol:
quote:
carol those deer were brought to a farm from out west.

Tree, the link shows the counties where Chronic Wasting has been found in the wild deer population.

As for the deer farm that originally had CWD, yes, the deer had been imported from out West.

But....and this is the problem....those deer had jumped the fences and mixed with the local population.

Which is why CWD is now in the wild deer.

It's also found in West Virginia.

Carol

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Tincup
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Dayle Ann said... "Deer don't get Lyme."

Well....

I am not sure that is 100 percent correct... so I beg to differ, repectfully of course. I'd like to share what I know about it so folks don't assume they are totally safe when dealing with deer meat.

Do deer get Lyme?

Actually I've never seen a deer laying on the sofa with a box of kleenex and a heating pad... or herxing or even taking antibiotics... but...

The spirochetes have been detected in the skin, the blood, meat and other parts of the deer.

To ME that means they have Lyme.

Warnings have always been in place... as long as I can remember.. to wear gloves when handling raw deer meat or the blood of deer so you won't get it through a cut on your hands.

Remember Willie Burgdorferi? He is the one the spirochte is named after. Reports are that he contracted Lyme when rabbit urine was splashed in his eye while he was doing experiments.

That mode of transmission should help others understand that they really need to be careful when handling meat and animal by-products.

Freezing does not kill Lyme.

Heating a tick in a HOT dryer for an hour does not kill every tick either... and most likely not the Lyme.

The spirochetes have been around MILLIONS of years (some found in the gut of a termite which was fossilized in rock).

If I were in the position you are in... I would thank the person kindly for their gift... and then toss it.

First of all.. who wants to eat deer from New York anyhow. Maryland deer are MUCH better. HA!

Actually deer killed in farming areas and that eat mainly soy beans and corn are MUCH better tasting than any NY wild deer that I've ever eaten. The deer here have a diet similar to farm raised beef basically... and have little to no wild game taste.

Second, if you are ONE bit concerned about it... toss it... just like you would chicken, pork or any other meat.

The stress over it will probably give you indigestion anyhow... and if the stress doesn't, the thought of having eaten it and served it to your family... over time that will cause stress.

I'd just say to whomever... "That sure was a nice piece of meat", as you watch it drop into the trash can.

And NO.. I don't like to waste anything... but I also would NEVER serve anyone something I had questions about myself.

For the record... I have eaten more deer than you have seen in your life time.. and cooked twice that much. I stopped eating it for several years due to fear.

I will cook it still... and serve it... because others want it... but rarely do I eat it anymore.

During deer meat meals I simply have a substitute... ICE CREAM!

[Big Grin]

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treepatrol
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol in PA:
Originally posted by treepatrol:
quote:
carol those deer were brought to a farm from out west.

Tree, the link shows the counties where Chronic Wasting has been found in the wild deer population.

As for the deer farm that originally had CWD, yes, the deer had been imported from out West.

But....and this is the problem....those deer had jumped the fences and mixed with the local population.

Which is why CWD is now in the wild deer.

It's also found in West Virginia.

Carol

Geez Carol thanks for the new info on ny government site this changes alot of things.

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Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.

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treepatrol
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CWD in North America 2007

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Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.

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Angelica
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I am bumping this up because I worry about venison in general.

The National Park Service is killing the non native deer here and donating the meat to soup kitchens and food banks. The poor can certainly not afford to catch or treat diseases a deer might carry.

[ 30. July 2008, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: Angelica ]

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Keebler
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-

I'd heard that more people are fishing in bad waters to catch dinner, too.


If the venison is cooked right, it's better than the tons of Velveta and cake mixes that food pantries give away !


I'd say a stew would be good - as you can really let it boil for a long time.


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Angelica
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I was just talking to a neighbor about this. I never notice any place cooking meat very well these days. The one and only time I had venison was in Las Vegas at the Bellagio's buffet before I was aware I had LD or knew much about the disease and it was cooked quite rare. So rare I did not eat much of it.

Even when you order a burger well done in the local restaurant where I live it comes back with a very pink middle.

Maybe in a perfect world meat would be cooked well enough but I just don't usually see meat cooked that way especially when you go to a BBQ or out to eat.

[ 30. July 2008, 06:37 PM: Message edited by: Angelica ]

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proudmom
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In theory Lyme disease is not in kansas. We have lots of deer and antelope running around.

The county I live in has the largest concetration of cattle in feedlots of any county in that part of the country.

We have ticks galore, and fleas and misquitoes(sp)and biting flies. The cattle are slaughtered and sent out to fast food chains etc.

I used to work on a hog farm that was part of a feedlot and saw deer right along side of the cattle eating the feed.

I guess my question here is can we be so parinoid about wild meat but not about livestock? Are the ticks so picky that cattle are ok and wont carry these diseases as well?

Not trying to sound sarcastic.....just how far do we go? What is safe to eat?

proudmom [hi]

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Angelica
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I thought about the same question. Cattle can carry diseases too.
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bettyg
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quote:
Originally posted by Angelica:

I thought about the same question. Cattle can carry diseases too.

yes, cattle can! my late Dad in 1955 got BLASTOMYCOSIS, animal fungus...but it's also another one of the MANY CO-INFECTIONS!!!


he was paralyzed from neck down but had to drink straight IODINE and eventually he got all his strength back!
*********************


please read my deer task force posting as well covering this subject....


i combined the best info on ALL PREVIOUS POSTS into this one ******************************


http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=066693

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bettyg
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quote:
Originally posted by Angelica:

I thought about the same question. Cattle can carry diseases too.

yes, cattle can! my late Dad in 1955 got BLASTOMYCOSIS, animal fungus...but it's also another one of the MANY CO-INFECTIONS!!!


he was paralyzed from neck down but had to drink straight IODINE and eventually he got all his strength back!
*********************


please read my deer task force posting as well covering this subject....


i combined the best info on ALL PREVIOUS POSTS into this one ******************************


http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=066693

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DakotasMom01
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All feedlot animals are fed medicated feeds. This includes chickens. They are being given antibiotics. One sick animal, could wipe out the whole herd/ flock and there go the profits.

Search the net, the info is out there. Anyone who has animals, might want to read the ings on the feed bag.

I don't see where there is a concern abt Lyme infected animals, coming out of feed lots. The hides will probably have ticks on them. Unless, someone here has a study they can post, showing otherwise.

The mad cow disease started when other animal "by products" from sick animals, were ground up and added to the feeds.

It was a cheap source of protein to plump up the animals faster, to be sold for meat, thus faster turn over and more profits.
Its my understanding this practice is no longer allowed.

Chronic Wasting is also occurs in nature or the wild, because the herds are too large in some places, and there is not enough food for all the deer, or its a bad winter with alot of snow and they can't look for food, they are starving.

Anyone who has hunted for awhile, can tell if a deer/game animal is sick or not, just by looking at it and observing its actions, and in the butchering process.{ anyone seen a rabid raccoon, coyote, or fox? Most sick animals are very mangy looking.}

I doubt a hunter would attempt to keep/eat or give the meat away from an animal that didn't look quite right to them. You can tell if an animal was injured in the past, so you don't use that part or the whole thing.

E coli comes into play, during the dressing or butchering process, when someone who is not skilled with the knife, or careless, cuts the entrails.{ sorry to be blunt} Not because the animal was sick.

Someone said 106*F will kill lyme. You would need to get a " button thermometer" and stick your meats.

Minimum temps. to kill bacteria are:

165* F for Poultry
155* F for Ground meat and burgers
150* F for Pork products
140* F for Eggs
130* F for Roast Beef that is Rare.

If 106* F kills Lyme, then the bacteria should be dead at the rarest of 130 F. You cook venison like beef so the temps would apply.

I hope this helps clear up any concerns abt eating venison or meat.

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Take Care,
DakotasMom01

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DakotasMom01
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Here is an article I found.
http://mdc.mo.gov/nathis/mammals/deer/disease.htm

Lyme Disease
Deer often are implicated in the spread of Lyme disease. One of the tick species that harbors and spreads the disease is called the "deer tick" in some regions.

However, there has never been a documented case of a human contracting Lyme disease through the handling or consumption of venison.

The disease actually is caused by bacteria and is spread through certain species of ticks.

Deer, other wildlife and domestic animals often are hosts for the ticks that carry Lyme disease and may expand its range.

Deer can become infected with Lyme disease, but they do not carry large numbers of the bacteria.

The disease isn't passed from one deer to another or to humans.

Deer may have large numbers of ticks and other parasites, and certain deer handling precautions will minimize your exposure to them.

Hang a deer carcass for a day or two to let many of the ticks drop off. Refrigeration may discourage ticks from dropping.

Wear latex gloves while dressing and processing deer. Gloves prevent any possible disease transmission through open cuts or abrasions .

Wearing gloves is strictly precautionary because there are no documented cases of people acquiring diseases or parasites from dressing deer.

Treat clothing with permanone or a similar tick spray to prevent most ticks from biting. Take a shower after being in the woods, and check your body closely.

Cook meat thoroughly. Although there is no evidence to suggest that deer diseases or parasites can be transmitted through venison, thoroughly cooking meat will ensure this. Copyright (c) 1995-2008 Conservation Commission of Missouri.

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Take Care,
DakotasMom01

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