Also, once you leave.. how soon till symptoms stop?

Do you have co-infections?

Every time i go into the bike shop that i part time at i start to feel bad, usually within 10-15 min..also borders, and target..I think it might be the bright lights..

My vision gets blurry, i get slightly disoriented, and my speach problems used to get worse (they are gone now), i also will get a headache sometimes..Once im outa there the symptoms go away ,usually within a few min.

Also, just want to make note, chemical sensitivities come with lyme and candida. When my candida was at its worst some years ago (pre lyme) I would feel sick whenever I went into ABC Carpet--a huge fantastic store that has not only tons of carpets but all kinds of household goodies, linens, couches, pillows, etc etc etc. I'd go there on my lunch hour. I now realize all those old costly rugs had mold in them.

Over the years, it has definitely intensified and subsided along with the other symptoms of Lyme. When more severe, I get a general overall sick feeling, and have considerable problems focusing my thoughts on any particular item. I experience the symptom in large malls or department stores, and it is most intense when walking down fairly narrow isles with high shelving on both sides. Walking along looking for an item is most difficult; standing still helps, but does not eliminate the problem. Originally I thought that high intensity lighting played a roll, but have not been able to relate it to any particular type of lighting. Large arenas or stadiums do not cause the symptom in me.

Perhaps, as suggested above, processing visual information in this setting must play a roll, but even flying an aircraft does not seem to activate the symptom in me. The only other activity that has come close to causing the same symptom was driving down a long strip of highway that was lowered below grade with a high wall on each side.

And the other time I get that sick feeling is looking at a picture of Mel....OK, Tincup, so maybe that is jealousy, a different symptom.

I have noticed that for me it is the worst at Lowes. Wal-Mart use to be the worst but maybe I have desensitzed myself cuz I like the store. I notice every smell in stores, the lights, people, sometimes noise everything, its like all my senses become hyperactivated and I am overwhelmed. Its so nice to know we aren't alone with these crazy aggravating symptoms.

Keep them coming. I am going to try and MAKE someone listen to me and somehow try to get us some relief! This is insane and it takes so much from us that we are unable to function in normal society! And no one sees it, understands it, addresses it, or can fix it!

I am tired of this. I can't go to the store to buy food without getting more ill. I can't go get a new shirt. I can't stand in the store and pick out a birthday card.

This symptom isolates me and you from too many things. I can't go to the woods for fear of ticks. I at least want to be able to go buy food!

Keep writing all you can about how you feel when this happens... We will try to find a pattern of some sort and a way to do something about this that works.

Tell me the goofy things too... like I use to think it was cause I was getting ready to spend money.. or the walking in aisles with tall shelves around and above. Tell all.. PLEASE!!! Don't be embarrased.

It is happening to too many of us. It is making us look like freaks if we see it as individual problems... but something is happening to ALL of us posting here that is real and needs to be addressed.

Keep up the good descriptions. THANKS!!

so much fun.

Can't stand for too long,especially under fluorescents. Have orthostatic hypotension so can't look up and down or I pass out!

Need to get in and get out or I feel nauseated,giddy,sweaty,anxious,dizzy.....

I am thinking about the THOUSANDS of $$$ spent trying to get help for this stuff.. the many "specialists" who should have known this stuff.. They missed it! I shouldn't have to be here doing this. Yep.. Now I am angry.. but it isn't that unusual... I will get over it..

Anyway..

Here is an article that will help start to explain some of this stuff...

It is pretty good info and along with other stuff I am working on.. we may get some help???

I have printed here a small section only.. Read the entire thing.. rather deep.. if you would like to see more...

In the meantime.. I will keep trying to piece this together.. GGGGrrrrrr!! I KNOW THESE DUCKS ARE SUPPOSE TO KNOW THIS AND DON'T!

http://www.headachepainfree.com/NEURO-OTOLOGIC%20HISTORY.htm

Patients with bilateral vestibular loss often report that the world jumps when they walk quickly or ride in moving vehicles. They may be unaware of the association with head movement unless specifically prompted to hold their head perfectly still, demonstrating to them that the oscillopsia will resolve. Some patients don't interpret this visual phenomenon as oscillopsia and notice only visual blurring with head movements. It can be particularly helpful to ask such patients whether or not they can go grocery shopping and walk through the aisles easily. Most such patients must stop and refocus at every point of interest. They also complain of an inability to see street signs while driving in cars unless the car has stopped.

Finally, many patients complain of intolerance of visual motion. Typical complaints include an inability to walk down a supermarket aisle without feeling disoriented or nauseated. Similar complaints include intolerance of crowds (e.g., in malls or in train stations) and of large screen movie theaters. This complaint is heard most often from patients with vertigo following head trauma, but may be reported by those with other types of vestibular disease, both central and peripheral. Some patients have no clear predisposing condition. The symptom may result from excessive reliance on visual cues to motion following loss of vestibular function.

Lightheadedness should be distinguished from vertigo or visual disorientation. This term should be reserved for symptoms similar to those preceding syncope. Most patients are familiar with the sensation, either from having fainted at some point in the past or from getting up quickly after a prolonged period lying down. Associated symptoms and signs include tunneling or dimming of vision, feeling cold, diaphoresis, shortness of breath, air hunger, perioral numbness, and pallor. Syncope, by definition, is loss of consciousness resulting from a fall in blood pressure and cannot be caused by vestibular disease. Lightheadedness is presumably caused by cerebral hypoxia and may be cardiac or vasovagal in origin. Contrary to popular belief, elevated blood pressure does not cause vertigo. Hypertensive patients experience lightheadedness when their blood pressure drops, presumably related to antihypertensive medications. [24] The work-up of syncope or lightheadedness need not include vestibular investigation unless there is a reasonable suspicion of vasovagal syncope triggered by vertigo. Such cases are exceptionally rare. A history of falling is not specific for syncope as some patients with a sudden vestibular imbalance, such as can occur in late Meniere's disease or from vascular insufficiency, also can cause a patient to fall, but there is no loss of consciousness. Unfortunately, a small minority of patients who complain of lightheadedness and strongly deny any vertigo can be shown to have vestibular imbalance on examination. It is useful to note the similarity between their symptoms and those induced by caloric stimulation during vestibular testing.

Imbalance, when defined properly, can be a helpful term. It is worth explaining to patients that balance is the ability to maintain the center of gravity within a restricted range over their feet. Imbalance, then, is the inability to maintain the center of gravity and affected patients note unsteadiness, stumbling, and falling. It may be significantly worse walking on uneven surfaces or in the dark. Its presence need not be associated with vertigo, visual disorientation, lightheadedness, or any other symptom. The causes of imbalance may be sensory or motor.

As my condition has improved, the crowds bother me less but, the lighting still is a problem. At work, I've had some of my light bulbs disconnected so that it won't be so bright and it is HORRIBLE when they begin to flicker. Also, the sound used to drive me over the edge but, I must say, that too has begun to go away!!! It was really hard to get the boss to understand about the sound because I was the only one hearing it!!!

I always thought I must be the most demented person in the world because one of my favorite activities - shopping, was making me feel worse!!! I was so happy to find Lymenet and meet all the "others"!!

Thanks for the article Tincup - makes sense I think!!! I do notice the symptoms more in larger stores w/ long aisles. I tend to keep my gaze down until I get to the area I want to be!!!

I also notice motion sickness increased as I became more and more ill. If you want to send me to pukesville - put me on a carnival ride or in the backseat of a car!!! W/ the car, I seem worse when there are trees making shadows!!!

Yuk - just typing all of this is making me dizzy!!!

We are getting some good responses and as I read them I feel one layer of "anxiety" melt away. We are not alone with this weird stuff. Very helpful to know. I plan to do more research to see if there could be some help for us...

I appreciate all the answers so much! Keep them coming!

OH... BTW-

Would it be helpful to do another post like this with a couple more ideas I have?

I have many of my "weird" symptoms written out in detail for documenting later... and to help me get help. Would this possibly help anyone to see this stuff.. so you could relate... or not???

You all are really helping me. Thanks so much!

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If it takes all the future, we'll live through the past.

This is perfect timing on this topic. I was in WalMart yesterday and kept getting totally distracted - thank god I had a list. The store is too bright and gets even brighter by the grocery part. I have gone to the checkout looking green more than once. Also the other day I kept tipping over - sorta felt like my old drunk days when I couldn't keep my feet under me. I also went to Borders - I find it relaxing with all those books. Well, not yesterday. I just grabbed the book I went for and got the hell out of there - kept tipping over again. Usually I can spend hours in that store. Target is the WORST store - all those lights and that color RED. Red is so hard on my eyes and the bright lights make me feel like my eyes have been dilated - everything starts getting all fuzzy. If I have to go in there, I just grab and run. But I really to try to avoid Target. I also used to like to walk the mall because it was so different from the one back home. Now I avoid it completely. Can't stand the bright lights, the smells from the food courts, and all those people! I do have panic attacks, but these "symptoms" in the stores do not have any connection to the panic.

[This message has been edited by MaryMi (edited 26 January 2002).]

I am not TOTALLY crazy! Or alone! Good news!

Now.. to figure it all out.

I have spoken with a person (brain specialist) who said it was mostly the lights. There is a cheap florscent bulb.. and a better one (natural spectrum). That WOULD explain why some buildings cause this.. others may not. I do notice as long as I can see ouside... I do feel better. Especially in doctors offices. I always stand at the window and stare out and am almost pressed against the window.. as if saying.. give me air...... Didn't know why till now..

I am VERY interested in "fixing" this.. and it is "neuro" or something "messing" with the brain through vision... and perhaps our other senses. If we can temporialy block these senses from picking up the triggers that cause this.. perhaps we could actually go to a store and have less trauma.

I don't know if it can be fixed.. but we can sure try. I do think the smells and sounds also play some sort of a role in this and the chemicals.. but I think if we can at least get the "lighting" aspect addressed.. more of us could possibly do a bit better???

I had started some research years ago.. but it got buried in the pile...

I had found that "rose" colored sun glasses might help keep the light frequecncy and "flickering" from causing the problem. They do help me.. but not enough to make the trip "comfortable". We should be able to do better.

I would LOVE to get some reseach articles together and make a "fix it" type list..

Which bulbs to buy (we could at least fix our own homes or rooms, or office spaces where we have problems)... what measures we can use to find SOME relief for now... A list of providers for the stuff we may need to cope.. EVEN a list of stores we might contact and NICELY ask that they consider the problems when changing bulbs for instance or building new stores.

I would also like to see a letter sent to these stores.. or the main head quarters.. that would explain the problem and ask that employees be aware this COULD happen in the store so we could have someone to address who understood.. and so we could leave our basket there while we took a "break" outside so we don't feel like freaks...

Do I have any "takers" to help with the research? I am bogged down with several other "projects" at the moment.. although this area interests me...