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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Marshall People dont believe in detox?

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Author Topic: Marshall People dont believe in detox?
lymeHerx001
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Im almost ready to start the Marshall protocol.

I have terrible MCS, highly allergic to mold in food and in the air (I get fatigue and bad pain) and I cant tolerate lifting heavy objects or standing on my feet because of terrible neuropathy (sugar = bad burning for me)

I have been led to believe that Lyme and other diseases create toxins that overload our systems and contribute to a heavy load of (gunk) that needs to be removed. These toxins include the ones from the spirochete, candida, heavy metals etc.

The people over at Marshall headquarters don't buy the toxin theory at all and say it has never been backed by science.

So whats going on here? Is is the toxins or just my immune response to the toxins being trained to become more and more sensitive through the years.

How can we account for anecdotal reports of many people getting well from taking various detox therapies and supplements?

I myself have had some success in the sauna and a little with chlorella, but my greatest stride is when I stick to the diet.

I know I still have an active infection (many in fact) but when I try to kill them I want to die!!!!

I sleep all the time , become suicidal etc.
Nothing has seemed to help this herxing. This is why I want to try MP to take care of the immune reaction first.

So is is true that the toxin theory is BS?


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The below is copied from Marshalls site..... someone was also asking about the lemon oil drink....

Do I need to detox while on the MP?


Detoxification (detox) is based on the principle that illnesses can be caused by the accumulation of toxic substances (toxins) in the body. Some practitioners believe detoxing is helpful to counteract symptoms due to immune system reactions.

Detox refers to treatments, tests, techniques, diets, special food products, fasting, therapies, machines, supplements, enemas, etc, that are commonly used by practitioners of alternative medicine (detoxification therapists) to supposedly 'enhance, activate and assist' the natural body processes that eliminate toxins.

Dr. Marshall states:

"We have not observed the need for any detoxification of the liver (or any other organ).

Detox will almost certainly affect your progress on the MP, and may be dangerous in combination with the MP.

In any case, I have seen no persuasive science to show that Detox is doing anything that it claims to be doing.

In fact, nobody has been able to show me any solid molecular science about Detox at all. Doesn't that tell you something??

Your best bet is to stay anchored in the Science, stick with the MP. You are in good company."


Lemon oil drink

The first thing you need to understand about killing the Th1 pathogens is that anything which makes you feel better, invariably does so because it is stopping your immune system from killing the pathogens.

The reason you are still ill is that one cannot apply the standard logic of "feeling well" to these chronic diseases. You have to understand the disease mechanism, and only then can you figure out how to recover your health.

I strongly discourage the use of a lemon oil drink if you want to regain your health, which is what this site is all about.

The whole concept of 'toxicity' has failed, IMO, and needs to be revised in light of the knowledge we have developed about the bacterial pathogenesis of these diseases.

..Trevor..
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Please help me out. I cant see living the rest of my life in a bubble and highlly sensitive to my environment.

lymeHerx 001

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Keebler
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-

I, too, am considering MP.

As for detox, I agree with Marshall in that I don't believe in detox as an event or big thing on this or that day . . . but - and here's where I leave Marshall's take on this - that "detoxing" is rather an ongoing GENTLE support of the liver to work right.

It means, also, gentle movement, sweating, massage or other ways to move lymph and get the body circulation, even if slowly.

I'm not a doctor, but this much I know:

Lyme is toxic. Neurotoxic.

Lyme impairs the liver.

Certain supportive herbs like milk thistle (just for one, there are many others) can protect the liver from the chemical side-effects of some drugs as well as from environmental toxins.

PubMed has many abstracts that back this up.


Also of concern to me is that Minocycline is on several oto-toxicity lists, not all of them, but several. I would feel better taking B6, NAC or something that has a chance to protect my ears as mino causes tinnitus for me and that can be caused by toxins - or herx - or porphyrin build-up . . . still, I'd like ways to minimize that.

Some folks seem to do okay with their ears and mino and others have serious ear-related sx like vertigo and tinnitus.


I also know that anti-oxidants are very important to every person alive. Fruits and vegetables provide some of those, but IMO, not enough for someone with a very toxic infection.


I can't wrap this up . . . just offering my thoughts on this part.

I have to study this again. This is one aspect of the MP that I have trouble grasping.

It's a puzzle that I'll go back to this week.


-

[ 25. February 2008, 01:12 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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gwenb
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I would suggest doing a lot of reading before starting the Marshall Protocol - especially in regards to Vitamin D deprivation.

Potentially dangerous in my opinion.

Gwen

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luvs2ride
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Well, I just received a genetic test saying that my detoxing pathways are defunct on several levels.

Sticking to my diet relieves me of pain as does my massage therapist. Both the diet and the massage are forms of detox.

In this instance, I believe Trevor Marshall is all wet.

Luvs

--------------------
When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace.

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treepatrol
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quote:
Originally posted by luvs2ride:


In this instance, I believe Trevor Marshall is all wet.

Luvs

I believe Trevor Marshall is all wet.
me too

--------------------
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.

Newbie Links

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kgg
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My young adult son has MCS. He did 5 months on the MP when it first started. At the time they said the first 3 weeks was hard then it gets better. Then the time stretched out to 3 months, then 6, then 12 months. I believe now they talk about 2 years.

I digress... the MP did not help his MCS. Did not help his TBD. And made him depressed and bed bound.

If this was me, I would be considering a trip to the Environmental Health Center in Dallas opposed to trying the MP. It is THE place to go for difficult MCS.

Or seeing Dr. Grace Ziem in MD, I believe, who treats MCS. Google her name, she has lots of info out there on the web.

Hope this helps,
Karen

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lymeHerx001
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A bump for some other responses, particularly BSH.
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dguy
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I'm not a fan of the toxin concept because it is too vague. I don't see that "I'm feeling toxic" defines the problem any more than saying "I'm feeling ill." Is there any fundamental difference between "I have to eliminate toxins" and "I have to eliminate illness"? IMO, toxic is a fancy sounding word that lacks substance and a clear definition... and that's bad science.

Furthermore, based on its usage here, "toxic" seems to mean different things to different people. For example, some will report they need to remove toxins so that their immune system can function better, yet then they'll take steroids like vitamin D that suppress the immune system.

Whether we are healthy or ill, our bodies continually eliminate waste products. Some seem to imagine our bacterial die off creates a log jam that needs special attention. Have you ever seen this log jam, or measured it in a scientifically accepted fashion? Me neither. Yes, I herx more some days than others, but this appears to be part of the process, and necessary. IMO, it's tough for us to do much better than maximizing our body's normal cleansing system, and that means boosting water instake and assuring regular BMs.

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lymeHerx001
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Im beginning to feel this way too. I think the term toxic is just a catch phrase.

If we really werent eliminating then certain drugs would have a longer effect not a shorter and we would also have a reverse tolerance rather then having a huge tolerance.

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Cold Feet
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I've been on the MP for 16 months and continue to make solid progress. I've broached the idea of detoxing on the MP site -- specifically with regard to saunas. The folks there do admit to the benefits of the sauna for some MP patients -- those that can do it safely.

Saunas can help by increasing the antibiotic penetration, moving lymphatic fluids with waste, and efficiently ridding the body of all kinds of junk. I believe that it also thins the blood; perhaps making the filtering process more efficient as well. I feel 300% better after saunas and will continue this routine indefinitely.

As for all the other concepts associated with detox -- there is so much to know! There are clearly some interesting revelations being made; all the while lots of companies are getting rich off products that may or may not help ill patients. These "get healthy quick" schemes seem to be the main culprits driving the MP folks' cynical views; but that's just my read.

Feel free to contact me by email or PM if you think I can help.

[Smile]

--------------------
My biofilm film: www.whyamistillsick.com
2004 Mycoplasma Pneumonia
2006 Positive after 2 years of hell
2006-08 Marshall Protocol. Killed many bug species
2009 - Beating candida, doing better
Lahey Clinic in Mass: what a racquet!

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lymeHerx001
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How do you know its the Marshall Proticol and not just the Sauna that leading to progress?
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map1131
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Whatever they believe, they believe. If detox isn't a major way of ridding the body of toxins, I wonder why God gave us bladders and colons and pores in our skin?

Doesn't take a mental heavy weight to understand you have to get toxins out of the body. It's suppose to happen naturally. I haven't met too many people on this board that their immune system and body is doing what God designed it to do.

There's nothing natural about the toxic build-up in our bodies. Well the tick might of originally been seen as natural and God created it. But man or something sure as heck has made something go wrong.

Our world is full of bad guys today. The tick in my opinion is a bad guy. That includes all blood suckers besides the tick.

Pam

--------------------
"Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill

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lymeHerx001
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Map I agree, at the very least wouldnt God want my body to be pain free?

I thought Jesus died for ALL our sins so we didnt have to suffer.

I am realizig now after many many years that this world is suffering (Buddha said this). There is just to much suffering on this board in my body and in the world.

I just dont want to be in pain or herxing anymore.

I feel that the LLMD lied when he said that if I continue antibiotics I will just get better and better. Instead I got chronic vertigo and MCS really bad.

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TerryK
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Lymeherx wrote:
highly allergic to mold in food and in the air

Have you tried taking a binder such as cholestyramine? Being allergic to mold is highly suspicious for biotoxin problems in my view.

The need for detox is a reality for some of us. Perhaps Trevor Marshall is one of the many who believes that because he didn't have this or that problem, no one does. We are all alike aren't we?? [Big Grin]

I have never heard of a "detoxification therapist". I have recieved help with detoxification from highly qualified medical professionals. N.D.'s and M.D.'s. They have medical degrees. These medical professionals have very good training and many have seen the benefits of detox for certain patients first hand. I trust their judgement, clinical experience AND my own personal experience.

I was very ill after the first 6 months on abx. So ill in fact that I could barely stand up. My very smart ILADS LLMD ran some tests and told me that my cells were full of debri. We were killing lots of bugs but the debri was not getting out of the cells. There were several tests, one was called C3D immune complex. I've written about these results here before several times.

I started drainage remedies and felt even worse for a short time and then started to feel better. I've made very slow progress towards better health after 50 years of untreated lyme, babesia and bartonella. I have no doubt that I was full of toxins. I'm sure that I had plenty of dead bug debri from many years of my poor impaired body trying to keep up with the dead bugs from all of my infections.

Can TM prove his assertion that every detox method is only making one feel better because it is stopping the immune system from killing bugs?? I highly doubt it.

When the bugs die, they cause inflammation in the tissues. It is not easy getting debri out of damaged, inflamed tissues. Why is it hard at all to think that if you help the body do this, you will have an easier time in treatment? Less inflammation, less pain and so on and so forth. It only makes logical sense AND it has nothing to do with suppression of killing bugs.

There are several different kinds of detox that may be needed for an individual patient besides liver and lymph. There are other organs of elimation AND some people probably really do have trouble getting rid of the debri from dead bugs.

How many people don't get well or can't tolerate treatment because their symptoms become intolerable? Isn't it worth allowing those people who look like they *might* be toxic to try it or would it be better to let them drop out of treatment because they can't tolerate treatment and their is no proof that detox works? I think we need to be pragmatic and do what works.

I'm not a medical doctor but then neither is Trevor Marshall.

Terry

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Cold Feet
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JB, regular sauna. I go to the gym, where they have the "usual" resistive type of heater unit inside the cedar-framed sauna box. The gym has problems keeping it running reliably, but it is typically at 150-155 degrees F. I try to stay in 40-60 minutes, which most people can't do. For me though, it allows me to sweat a great deal and exhaust a great deal of garbage!

Going forward, I want to build my own sauna in the basement. The hygiene at the gym is really gross; and a lot of very sick people use the sauna to try to get better! I joke that I go to the gym sauna to "exchange my bugs," which probably is true...

--------------------
My biofilm film: www.whyamistillsick.com
2004 Mycoplasma Pneumonia
2006 Positive after 2 years of hell
2006-08 Marshall Protocol. Killed many bug species
2009 - Beating candida, doing better
Lahey Clinic in Mass: what a racquet!

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map1131
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Well, like I said whatever the MP group feel they need to do to get "cured", hey, do it. Just let me know when there is a 50% or more rate of cure.

Maybe I"ll look at it later. Just not the path I'm going now. The thought of no Vit D3 or sunshine in my life, sounds very depressing.

No thank you. This lyme & company in by body for 10 yrs screws with my moods and well-being enough as it is. I love sunshine on my face and body. It is one of my creators "free" services.

I'll take a free service whenever I can get one. Especially one that makes ME feel good. Or should I say makes me feel better? I'm not claiming sunshine is a "cure", just something on this planet that serves a purpose, IF it's not abused.

Might be why in the holy land today and many many years ago, the people were smart enough to wrap up their bodies and heads when they had to survive in their elements???????

Pam

--------------------
"Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill

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Cold Feet
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Pam, no need to categorize me as a groupee! Come next month, I'll be cycling and cleaning up the yard! Why do MPers who want to help others on this board often get such harsh treatment!? Shheesh!

One last warning to my last post: careful with saunas. I've seen people faint, fall and smack their heads pretty bad. A lot of us folks don't do well in this kind of heat.

--------------------
My biofilm film: www.whyamistillsick.com
2004 Mycoplasma Pneumonia
2006 Positive after 2 years of hell
2006-08 Marshall Protocol. Killed many bug species
2009 - Beating candida, doing better
Lahey Clinic in Mass: what a racquet!

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map1131
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Good information about the sauna. I myself experienced that trying to detox in the sauna is not a good idea or protocol when the body is sick and most of the toxic release systems are plugged up.

But hey a naturopath thought it would be good for me to throw everything at my body at one time. Little did she know or I know 5 yrs ago, that sauna treatments can make things worse in a toxic body.

Live and learn. I wasn't throwing anyone into a groupie. After all I am known as one of the rife groupies. I just have lived it, researched it, read it over and over again for the last 9+ yrs.
Sometimes I forget I even learned it, even when I learned it and it made sense for me to try.

I haven't conquered it all yet. So I can't use the "cured" word and I don't. I've been re-infected in the last two years. With what? I don't know. But all I know is what I've experienced myself after a long hard road.

I'm winning the war slowly but surely, making some mistakes along the way, but I'm human and humans make errors. I don't know how to fix or for sure help anyone here. All I know is my journey through 3+ yrs of abx, early stage (?). Failure!!!!!!!

I now have 5+ yrs of alternative & traditional meds and treatments. I'm no longer dying a slow death. I can and am getting better. I still am in the process of using traditional medicine doctors to help me.

I'll see if any of them are of any use to my symptoms in the last couple years and can identify the "bug" that bite me?

If they can't I will find some alternative doc who might help me identify it or I will go out and experiement on my own. With every weapon I can get my hands on.

So I'm of the opinion that MP is not the answer for me. I knew they wanted no sun or Vit D3. I open this thread and learn they don't believe in detox.

Sorry, Cold Feet, but that doesn't sound like a good plan to me. But what do I know? Just my own experience and lessons in lyme & company.

Pam

--------------------
"Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill

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karatelady
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When I get a massage ~ my therapist mixes lymphatic with deep tissue (but very lightly on me if that makes sense) as I have bubble wrap type knots around my shoulders and neck that she can actually see them squish and I can feel them pop. The lymph massage brings the "bubbles" to the surface - weird!

Later that evening, I feel very toxic (dizzy, pain all over, inflammation, stomach ache, etc.) so I either do a detox foot bath, soak in a hot tub with baking soda, Epsom salts and essential oils or do 30 minutes in my steam tent. I feel a LOT better afterwards. (Also take Chlorella)

If that isn't detoxing, I don't know what is.

Sandy

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lymeHerx001
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Whats weird is that reading this it disgusted me to hear of these knots that pop.....

but when you said that afterwards you have increased soreness and toxic feelings I can relate.

If I stretch the same thing happens to me. Im in a lot more pain afterwards.

No one really seems to know why. What would Marshall say about it?


quote:
Originally posted by karatelady:
When I get a massage ~ my therapist mixes lymphatic with deep tissue (but very lightly on me if that makes sense) as I have bubble wrap type knots around my shoulders and neck that she can actually see them squish and I can feel them pop. The lymph massage brings the "bubbles" to the surface - weird!

Later that evening, I feel very toxic (dizzy, pain all over, inflammation, stomach ache, etc.) so I either do a detox foot bath, soak in a hot tub with baking soda, Epsom salts and essential oils or do 30 minutes in my steam tent. I feel a LOT better afterwards. (Also take Chlorella)

If that isn't detoxing, I don't know what is.

Sandy [/QB]


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map1131
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Johnny, I do believe you are totally unaware where I've been in this journey. You can do all the abx you want and watch the sun or not. If it works for you, that's great.

But I've been there, done most of the abx crap and it didn't help me. It made it worse. Johnny, there are people who cannot, for whatever reason tolerate abx for lyme & company.

I happen to one of them. ABX were and are still my enemy. I found this out again as recent as in October. Abx of any kind is the not the cure all, be all that you and many others have been lead to believe they are for knocking out super bacteria.

I've been studying and considering abx for some other bacteria in my body that I recently tested positive for. You know what Johnny, my heart tells me to move on to something else?

This world is not ready for any super outbreak of any super bacteria or virus. Think about it? Do you really think someone is looking to find this wonderful new abx that will knock out any super bacteria that crosses our lives?

Do you really think mino and no sun is your blessing? If it is? Great for you!!!!! May you pass on to greater and better things than lyme & company.

I know of posters on this site that have been on abx for years and years. Are they cured yet? I haven't seen one say they are cured yet? Remember the rest of the (their) story has yet to be written. I think maybe Sarah from California said she was cured one time from years of abx. I won't swear to that.

Maybe someone else can correct if they have been "cured" with abx alone? Oh and no sun too?
Cured is the key word. Many many have been able to get some of their old life back. But there sure doesn't seem to be any 100% cure rate here?

Pam

--------------------
"Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill

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Keebler
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-

The FIR - far infrared saunas are designed to be lower heat so as not to put so much stress on the heart and brain in sick patients.

This is especially important. If one has only access to a regular sauna, keeping cooler wet towel around the neck can help. Going in and out, drinking lots of electrolyte water . . .

Getting too hot can be very dangerous - it can cause cardiac problems and brain hypoperfusion in patients with exercise intolerance - if the body is stressed.

Do what you feel helps but don't push it. Gentle, consistent . . . always listen to what your body is telling you and don't judge that you just need to toughen up. Read up on it first.


And, after all that, just the right amount of heat can be very healing for many reasons. And it's very relaxing.


====================================


www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

PubMed Search:

sauna, cardiac - 52 abstracts

sauna, CFS - 2 abstracts

sauna, borrelia - none

sauna, hypotension - 4 abstracts (hypotension is low blood pressure - various forms affect lyme patients)

sauna, hypoperfusion - 2 abstracts

Far infrared sauna - 12 abstracts


-

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TerryK
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Lymeherx wrote:
quote:
Whats weird is that reading this it disgusted me to hear of these knots that pop.....

but when you said that afterwards you have increased soreness and toxic feelings I can relate.

If I stretch the same thing happens to me. Im in a lot more pain afterwards.

No one really seems to know why. What would Marshall say about it?

Sorry, I don't know what Marshall would say about it but I'll ask again if you've considered cholestyramine or some other binder?

I've been told by my massage therapist that massage will stir up toxins. Exercise moves the lymph and can stir up toxins but of course the soreness could be caused by deconditioning or who knows what else. Sounds like you could be very toxic. You might also want to try some drainage remedies for your lymph system.

Terry
I'm not a doctor.

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charlie
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....well whether I buy the MP or not is neither here nor there but....whenever I do a round of abx my feet start burning.

then I do a round of questran and they stop, for quite a while.

Also I live in the Houston area which is a sauna all by itself 7-8 months out of the year and I feel much better when hot and sweaty (and sun tanned).

You'd have a hard time convincing me that detox is unnecessary or that sunlight avoidance is healthy.

Anecdotal, I know, but it works for me.

Charlie

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lymeHerx001
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Ive been on antibiotics for years and all they did was

A) make me herx hard and then
B) when I stopped herxing they kept *some* symptoms at bay....

Did they cure me? NO....
I feel as if I got more toxic and the abx caused yeast to get worse,,, my llmd doesnt really believe this though cause my stool tests are neg for yeast.........common!!!


quote:
Originally posted by map1131:


I know of posters on this site that have been on abx for years and years. Are they cured yet? I haven't seen one say they are cured yet?
Pam [/QB]


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lymeHerx001
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I too have a problem with burning feet.

I tell people my feet burn from sugar and from mold and from abx.

They get this dumb look on their face and dont know what to say. This is one of the worse symptoms. Its like having MS.

In fact I did have an MRI but no lessions in the brain so I guess that rules MS out?????????????????????


quote:
Originally posted by charlie:
....well whether I buy the MP or not is neither here nor there but....whenever I do a round of abx my feet start burning.

then I do a round of questran and they stop, for quite a while.

Also I live in the Houston area which is a sauna all by itself 7-8 months out of the year and I feel much better when hot and sweaty (and sun tanned).

You'd have a hard time convincing me that detox is unnecessary or that sunlight avoidance is healthy.

Anecdotal, I know, but it works for me.

Charlie [/QB]


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charlie
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...actually, I have been in a state of near remission for about 7 years now.

But if I ignore burning, tingling,swelling in my knees and elbows it comes back to bite me real bad.

I'll claim cured when somebody figures out a way to get these bugs out of cartilage, connective tissue, and synovial fluid. That's the sticking point for me...until then I'm still a lymie but a somewhat controllable one, who never got much help out of anything but abx and artemesinin.

Charlie

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charlie
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Lots of us have had burning feet...it's one of the most bewildering debilitating symptoms out there and apparently it's just peripheral neuropathy.

personally I think it's from neurotoxins, and that's why questran helps. Also I've found neurontin and ultram to be a temporary fix.

MS or diabetic neuropathy is a convenient out for some ducks but my blood sugar's low normal and no other signs of MS.

Charlie

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Cold Feet
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Thank you all, for clarifying your thoughts. That's really nice of you!

For the record, I don't believe in the ``one protocol fit's everyone'' approach. I talk to a lot of people across the country, and I know what works for one may not work for another. Like almost all of you, I've researched everything from Rife (the early years), to Bb to visual microscopy techniques. My real interests are in spine pathologies.

All of you have helped me learn much more about these nasty, insidious and sophisticated bugs which are crippling us en masse; thanks for your posts and heart-felt sharing.

--------------------
My biofilm film: www.whyamistillsick.com
2004 Mycoplasma Pneumonia
2006 Positive after 2 years of hell
2006-08 Marshall Protocol. Killed many bug species
2009 - Beating candida, doing better
Lahey Clinic in Mass: what a racquet!

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Cass A
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Dear Lymeherx,

Regarding the MP and detox, Marshall doesn't like SOME detox methods--the lemon-oil drink being one of them. However, Milk Thistle and other "palliative" are OK, as I understand it. Some detoxifiers would probably be not acceptable, as they might contain trace Vit. D, such as chlorella (my guess).

Note, that I am not personally on the MP, but have continued to study it for about a year now.

Detox foot-pads don't add anything to your body--I found them very helpful.

Also, I did get my genetic type regarding toxins done, and that is not a problem for me. I don't know if you have had this test done or not.

Doing the MP does release toxins as infected cells die off.

It is important to note that the MP IS AN INVESTIGATIONAL STUDY, and the results will be reported to the FDA and in medical journals. Partly for that reason, people who are doing it under their supervision are cautioned not to take other things that are known to affect the immune system, as it muddies the data.

PM me if you'd like doctor contact info for someone who takes all of these factors into consideration.

Best,

Cass A

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lymeHerx001
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Thats very interesting that its investigational, I did not know that Marshall is going to the FDA with it. IF that is the case then his stubbuorness makes alot of sense.

quote:

Dear Lymeherx,

Regarding the MP and detox, Marshall doesn't like SOME detox methods--the lemon-oil drink being one of them. However, Milk Thistle and other "palliative" are OK, as I understand it. Some detoxifiers would probably be not acceptable, as they might contain trace Vit. D, such as chlorella (my guess).

Note, that I am not personally on the MP, but have continued to study it for about a year now.

Detox foot-pads don't add anything to your body--I found them very helpful.

Also, I did get my genetic type regarding toxins done, and that is not a problem for me. I don't know if you have had this test done or not.

Doing the MP does release toxins as infected cells die off.

It is important to note that the MP IS AN INVESTIGATIONAL STUDY, and the results will be reported to the FDA and in medical journals. Partly for that reason, people who are doing it under their supervision are cautioned not to take other things that are known to affect the immune system, as it muddies the data.

PM me if you'd like doctor contact info for someone who takes all of these factors into consideration.

Best,

Cass A [/QB]



[ 27. February 2008, 10:35 AM: Message edited by: lymeHerx001 ]

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map1131
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Cold Feet, I just realized why you might of made your ID cold feet. I too have the darn foot stuff, soles of feet going on.

I used to have cold feet all the time, but after I started taking cymbalta, my cold sx went away. Well, actually the last couple days I've been experiencing the cold all over, can't get warm feeling. My darn feet especially.

I haven't had it in over 16 mths so? But the soles of my feet feel like I've been walking on sharp rocks all night long. Sometimes it gets better through the day, sometimes all day & night I feel like I'm walking on rocks bare footed.

No doubt about it. I've got poor circulation going on in my limbs. Many problems with hands and feet. But I'm still able to type and do some stuff on the computer, so I'm blessed.

Johnny, you didn't make me upset. I just want people to know that it takes so much work to figure any of this out. MP could be great for you, but it could be a disaster for me.

I use rife and other alternative treatments. I've done some disasters in the last 5 yrs. I've done some stuff that was a waste of money for me.
But I've learned some stuff about me and my well-being that I will use and do long after this lyme & company nightmare is over.

I'm not afraid of my rife machine. I now know how and when to use. I know my machine, not anyone else's machine. Now if I could just find someone to identify the "bug" that biting me in the rear, I will use my rife machine and any other things I need to do to fight these bacteria or virus or parasite.

No my latest bite on my nose was not my rear end?
[Roll Eyes] [Roll Eyes] [Roll Eyes]

Pam

--------------------
"Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill

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lymeHerx001
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back on welchol
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charlie
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...Good....now you'll have happy feet.

And if the MP folks want to endure an almost monastic, ritualistic existence to work up to taking some bactrim, more power to them, but for the life of me I can't grasp why....

Charlie [confused]

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lymeHerx001
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ru saying that you dont like bactrim?


quote:
Originally posted by charlie:
] ...Good....now you'll have happy feet.

And if the MP folks want to endure an almost monastic, ritualistic existence to work up to taking some bactrim, more power to them, but for the life of me I can't grasp why....

Charlie [confused] [/QB]


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lymeHerx001
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ru saying that you dont like bactrim?


quote:
Originally posted by charlie:
] ...Good....now you'll have happy feet.

And if the MP folks want to endure an almost monastic, ritualistic existence to work up to taking some bactrim, more power to them, but for the life of me I can't grasp why....

Charlie [confused] [/QB]


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charlie
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NOT at all....bactrim is a necessary part of the food chain and a sort of nectar of the gods as well...I doubt I'd have survived without it.

But why not just take the bactrim like I did and maybe get instant relief without going thru the whole cult-like MP ritual.

Bactrim rules!!

Charlie

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lymeHerx001
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hmm?

Those are injection weeklly?

Did you herx at all?

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charlie
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Nope...just a couple of big white pills a day. It's about as cheap as aspirin, too.

problem is a quarter of the populace can't tolerate the sulfa in it.

I didn't herx at all and it's used for bart and babs as well as lyme. Taking it with a macrolide and artemesinin seems to cover all bases.

If you do a search for Bactrim and /or Septra(same thing) using my member # you'll get all kind of hits.

I'm not a doctor BTW

Charlie

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lymeHerx001
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allright charlie!! Glad to hear that it helped you (thats rare on this board) Im gonna ask my doctor.

Right now Im just trying to detox somehow and go after yeast. I even herx of tiny doses of biaxin now. I dont know what the hekk is going on.

All I know is I can eat lots of eggs every day and I feel good with them.

It must be a sign from GOD that I should eat only eggs like lizards LOL!!! [Smile]

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map1131
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Good to know the bactim helped you charlie. I remember my LLMD tried me on some sulfur abx also. By that time, it didn't matter. The sulfur abx were a nightmare too. My body was screaming STOP I'VE HAD ENOUGH.

But that's what happened to me, by no means does that mean everyone will react as I did to sulfur abx. It's good info that it helped with your feet thing.

I don't remember for sure why my LLMD put me on this type abx back in '03. Seems he was down to something alittle different for me. I believe it was my last abx before I gave up with that treatment protocol.

I still have all my LLMD notes. His & mine. So maybe this bactrim with help someone else's unhappy feet?

Pam

--------------------
"Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill

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charlie
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....it's taken all day for this site to settle down enough to be able to post on. This is the most X*^#$^%unstable software I've ever seen.

Pam...the bactrim helped immediately but the questran detox took away the burning foot symptom.

It's odd how an old sulfa drug can help some of us immediately, I wish I could figure it out and it seems the bactrim ones aren't helped by doxy from the few cases I can remember.

there's something to the statement that medicine isn't a science but an art.

Charlie

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B R H
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If you didn't herx, you didn't kill any bacteria.
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lymeHerx001
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BRH on the Marshall protocol do you herx at all?

Its my understanding that the herxes are mitigated by the benicar, hence this is why participants take it.

I have a feeling that being on Flagyl for months and months mutated the spirochete into a version that is more susceptible to the Biaxin.

Regardless I herx even harder from yeast killers. They actually make me suicidal so I cant take them. Its VERY scary. Even olive oil does this.

So detox is at the top of my agenda, and If this means that I have to eat less and under nourish myself for a while in order to kick my body into clean up gear then so be it!

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charlie
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quote:
Originally posted by B R H:
If you didn't herx, you didn't kill any bacteria.

That's making hard and fast rules.

In this game the only hard and fast rule is that there aren't any...

Charlie

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