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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Marshall Protocall - Vitamin D

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Author Topic: Marshall Protocall - Vitamin D
skimpbiz
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So I have Lyme and Hashimoto's thyroid, as well as suspected gluten sensitivity with possible celiac, right? The Celiac has yet to be diagnosed.

But my endocrine doctor just found through testing that I am deficient in Vitamin D. She wants me to supplement with 1,000mg twice a day - once at morning and once at night.

Then I see this Marshall protocall, which basically tells people to avoid all sources of Vitamin D to find the road to true health.

What should I believe here? It's definitely conflicting information.

Posts: 173 | From Lakeland, FL 33813 | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DoctorLuddite
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If vitamin D avoidance was the path to true health we would not have been placed on a planet bathed in sunshine...Your endocrinologist needs to check both metabolites of vitamin D, and if the hormone form level is unusually high, use great care in supplementing.
Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Cold Feet
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You are right -- there is a lot of conflicting information. I've gotten better on the MP (I am in phase 3) and have read about people with your condition on the MP getting better too. Does everyone on the MP get better? Is it for everyone? No. But the results for many REALLY sick people are impressive.

As a secosteroid, D is impressive in its multifaceted role in the immune function. It also may also have palliative effects for people with D dysregulation. If you take it and you feel better, what does that mean?

I am not a doctor -- I don't think the poster above is either! I've asked...

See a related post here below:

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=064711

You can search too -- there's a ton of related topics.

--------------------
My biofilm film: www.whyamistillsick.com
2004 Mycoplasma Pneumonia
2006 Positive after 2 years of hell
2006-08 Marshall Protocol. Killed many bug species
2009 - Beating candida, doing better
Lahey Clinic in Mass: what a racquet!

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Keebler
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-

The Marshall Protocol requires patients to have there Vit. D levels tested FIRST. Only those HIGH are instructed to proceed investigating if the protocol is suited for them.


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Lymetoo
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Many of us are low in Vitamin D. I'm supplementing too.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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disturbedme
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I was very low in vitamin D. I was below 7.

My LLMD put me on 50,000 IU once per week.

Doing this much is scary though since I know you can get too much of it in this pill form. I've been on it for about a month -- I think I will have him test my Vitamin D next visit, just to see if it's up yet or not (he did want to test in three months, but I'm afraid to wait that long in case it gets to be too much).

Before this, I was supplemnting with D3 I got at a health food store. I was taking around 4,000 to 2,000 a day and that didn't boost my levels at all...

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One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar.
~ Helen Keller

My Lyme Story

Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
skimpbiz
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Thank you very much for the replies. I think I will try 1 a day of 1,000mg instead of the two to start.

I didn't realize the marshall protocall was only for people with high vitamin D. Interesting.

Posts: 173 | From Lakeland, FL 33813 | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ByronSBell 2007
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Marshall Protocol = [Roll Eyes]
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Cass A
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You'd need to get your 1,25 D tested.

There's lots of info at the Marshall Protocol website on interpreting these tests.

Definitely, the Marshall Protocol is not for everyone.

Best,

Cass A

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Truthfinder
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Skimp, most docs only test for D levels using the 25 D test. According to the MP folks, it is the ratio of the 25 D to the 1,25 D levels that is important..

We can use my test results as an example; my levels for each test were:

Vitamin D, 1,25 - Dihydroxy: 49 (range is 15-60)
Vitamin D, 25-OH: 16 - LOW (range is 20-100
(My calcium level was borderline low, as well.)

At the time of these tests I was probably only getting about 400 i.u. of D3 a day and maybe only 250 mg. of calcium per day from supplements, very little sunshine exposure......

Notice that my 1,25 D levels are over 3 times my level of 25 D. I think that is what the MP folks are looking for.

Even now, I'm only taking about 1,500 i.u. of Vitamin D/D3 per day from various sources. (I'm not on the MP or any abx protocol, by the way.) I'm adding a little more Vitamin D3 every 2 or 3 weeks. I think it has caused me some problems, but there are other factors which could be at play here, too.

Do a search here at LymeNet for ``Vitamin D'' in the topic heading - there have been a number of discussions about this just since last fall.

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Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are.

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lymie tony z
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UH HUH!

I thought so skimp ole buddy....you're well on the way down, supplement land, because you,

refuse to believe, you have lyme disease and "that's all you have"...."like that's not enough".

IF you're going down that road....remember the I.U. indication of dosage is not the same as Mgs..

I.U. is something like one onethousand miligram or something small like that.... I believe it

stands for-(international units- versus millegrams).

Believe it or not, MOST Americans are vitamin D deficient as well as deficient in magnesium.

Tell you what my friend....try just taking some vitamin D and Magnesium(no not CAL-MAG...just

magnesium) and tell me(after a solid month or two of honest vitamin D and MAg)....

how much better your muscles and joints feel....heck you'll think I'm better then your guru's....

You're, IMHO, hooked now....and they're reeling you in slowly and expensively....

just sitting there telling you all these "THINGS" that are wrong with you....

Well.....I tried my best to give you, good advice, and warn you of the "DARK SIDE"

of the "DUCKTORS AND FLIM FLAM ARTISTS" this disease brings.

Yep, in MY opinion....the MP is junk!.....too hard to maintain and worthless.....as a lyme remedy anyway!

GOod Luck ole chum!
zman

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I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman

Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
pamoisondelune
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Hi Coldfeet--- DoctorLuddite IS a doctor!
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B R H
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Unusual vitamin D test results are not the only reason to consider MP - far from it. It is merely the best objective measure they have found so far. It is used as an indicator of an infection with cell-wall-deficient bacteria that has destabilized your vitamin D regulation & therefore your immune system as well.

It would take too much time & typing to try to convince anyone here that MP will do what it is designed to do despite normal vitamin D tests, but I am convinced that is the case now that I know so much more about how all these body systems work. I also believe it is far safer than other alternative therapies.

That said, I doubt I would have tried it myself if my D tests were normal. I also had lots of other supporting evidence & tests with unanswered questions that MP explained.

My progress & results on MP have far exceeded my doctors expectations. My doctor thinks I have been cured for at least 6 months.

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Thane
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I have not yet tried the MP but I will as soon as I get a doctor to prescribe the Benicar for me. Bryan Rosners books talk alot about the MP and he credits the combination of rife and MP for his success.

Like Bryan has said, try it and see if it works for you. If you don't have elevated 1,25D levels then you wont herx from the Benicar. If you do herx then you know you can benefit from the treatment. Benicar was used for high blood pressure, there wern't people with high blood pressure herxing from it. Only people with L-form bacteria herx from it. They herx because vitamin D is immunosupressive and when the D levels come down due to the Benicar, the immune system kicks into gear and starts killing bacteria. So, supplementing with vitamin D to see how you feel doesn't work very well in this instance, because an even higher level of vitamin D can cause a reduction of symptoms because it is suppressing your immune system and therefore also reducing inflammation. I can't personally vouch for it since like i said I haven't tried it yet, but that is the theory behind it anyway.

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dguy
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quote:
Originally posted by skimpbiz:
I didn't realize the marshall protocall was only for people with high vitamin D. Interesting.

Not exactly...

The key takeaway here is there are different forms of vitamin D. The one commonly tested is 25D, and that's often low in lymies because the infection is busily consuming it and converting it to 1,25D (another form of vitamin D).

So, since "low vitamin D" generally means low 25D, that's half the data you need to be a match for the MP. High 1,25D is the other half of the data. If your 25D is low and 1,25D high, you are considered a good match and candidate for the MP.

The MP is just another variant of abx treatments, the most common approach for lyme. All the MP's predictions have come true for me, and I'm getting better.

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Wonko
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I too have read conflicting info on Vit. D., most notably that the MP calls to NOT supplement, while just about every other source says to supplement!

My 25 form is 9, while my 1,25 form is around 40. So the 25 is out of range low, and the 1,25 form is in normal range.

My LLMD said the the ratio of about 4 is suggestive of infection, since white cells can carry out unregulated conversion between the two forms.

My biochem book is dusty, so I'm taking his word.

He said that Marshall was right that Vit. D plays an important role in immunology, but wrong to go against supplementing when you're levels are low.

From my own research on the matter, I tend to agree.

Just passing this on, FWIW.

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luvs2ride
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I was low in all the D even the 1,25 thingy.

I have rheum. arthritis from my lyme and I supplement Vit D3 5000IU daily. It made a huge difference, even a physical one. My herbonden's nodules shrunk by half after I started supplementing.

Every cell in your brain has a vitamin d receptor meaning it is meant to receive vit. d. Studies have found that supplementing vit d can prevent alzheimers, parkinsons, ms.

Many people here who are depressed would benefit from supplementing with D3.

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When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace.

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FunkOdyssey
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1,25OHD is regulated independently of 25OHD level. Your body will keep 1,25OHD normal even with low 25OHD present. Low 25OHD and normal 1,25OHD has no special significance except that you are deficient in 25OHD.

The main regulator of 1,25OHD is calcium intake. If you increase your calcium intake, not as much 1,25OHD is needed and 1,25OHD will drop.

In the scenario that you have high 1,25OHD that is unresponsive to increased calcium intake, THAT indicates a Vitamin D dysregulation that might be a consequence of runaway conversion by white cells. The Marshall Protocol makes a little more sense in this scenario.

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Thane
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Lets say I have high 1,25D levels and low 25D levels. Could it make sense to supplement with D to bring up the 25D levels while taking enough Benicar to bring down the 1,25D levels. Get the best of both worlds?
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jmb
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quote:
Lets say I have high 1,25D levels and low 25D levels. Could it make sense to supplement with D to bring up the 25D levels while taking enough Benicar to bring down the 1,25D levels. Get the best of both worlds?
I think there are a lot of approaches out there; from straight MP to anti-MP and all points in between. I have a doc who has a large, open mind who started me on a lower than mp-standard dose of benicar and pulsed mino last month along with a more standard dose of zithro. He did both D labs; I have been down on D every time it has been checked. The D1,25 was not super up but my blood pressure has been on the up since I came down sick so he added the Beni. He also recommended some D3 sup. And we added Alina too.

After a short time on Benicar, I felt different. I still do. I think Marshall is on to something though I do not think he is on to everything. We all have research to do and choices to make.

I am no doc, so you know.

--------------------
enjoy the day.

-jmb

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treepatrol
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I have never bought into it. Hes a PHD not a medical Dr theories.

[ 18. December 2008, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: treepatrol ]

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dguy
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quote:
Originally posted by Thane:
Lets say I have high 1,25D levels and low 25D levels. Could it make sense to supplement with D to bring up the 25D levels while taking enough Benicar to bring down the 1,25D levels. Get the best of both worlds?

I doubt you'll be able to accomplish that, at least in a significant way because the infection will consume the bulk of the D you supplement. AFAIK, your 1,25D is not going to come down because of Benicar alone, you need to reduce your D intake and light exposure. Additionally, why bother trying to boost your 25D? It serves no human biological purpose except as a fuel to create 1,25D.
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