LymeNet Home LymeNet Home Page LymeNet Flash Discussion LymeNet Support Group Database LymeNet Literature Library LymeNet Legal Resources LymeNet Medical & Scientific Abstract Database LymeNet Newsletter Home Page LymeNet Recommended Books LymeNet Tick Pictures Search The LymeNet Site LymeNet Links LymeNet Frequently Asked Questions About The Lyme Disease Network LymeNet Menu

LymeNet on Facebook

LymeNet on Twitter




The Lyme Disease Network receives a commission from Amazon.com for each purchase originating from this site.

When purchasing from Amazon.com, please
click here first.

Thank you.

LymeNet Flash Discussion
Dedicated to the Bachmann Family

LymeNet needs your help:
LymeNet 2020 fund drive


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations.

LymeNet Flash Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » After Treatment you don't have Lyme- You have PLS, etc

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: After Treatment you don't have Lyme- You have PLS, etc
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829

Icon 13 posted      Profile for Tincup         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8856619?dopt=Abstract


1: J Rheumatol. 1996 Aug;23(8):1392-7.
Related Articles, Links

Clinical and neurocognitive features of the post Lyme syndrome.

Bujak DI, Weinstein A, Dornbush RL.

Department of Medicine, New York Medical College, Valhalla 10595, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To evaluate neurocognitive impairment in patients with persistent arthralgia, fatigue, and subjective memory loss in patients after Lyme disease (post-Lyme syndrome, PLS).

METHODS: We compared the clinical, neurocognitive, and psychological features of 23 patients with PLS to 23 age, sex, and education matched recovered patients (REC).

All met Centers for Disease Control criteria for Lyme disease, were ELISA positive at onset of Lyme disease and were previously treated with standard antibiotic regimens.

RESULTS: Of the patients with PLS, 7 (30%) had fibromyalgia (FM), 3 (13%) had chronic fatigue syndrome, and 10 (43%) had similar but milder symptoms but did not meet the criteria for either.

22 of 23 patients with PLS complained of decreased memory or concentration problems. Patients with PLS had significantly lower scores on the attention/concentration scale (p = 0.012) of the Wechsler Memory Scale-Revised (WMS-R), indicating lowered attention/concentration.

52% of patients with PLS and 35% in the REC group had significantly lower (p 0.05) WMS-R verbal memory scores than visual memory scores. The PLS group had subjectively more problems with sleep and mood changes and higher scores on several scales of Symptom Check List 90-R (p 0.01), indicating greater physical distress.

Beck Depression Inventory scores were also higher for the PLS than the REC group (p 0.005), but were within the normal range.

CONCLUSION: Despite antibiotic treatment, a sequelae of Lyme disease may be a PLS characterized by persistent arthralgia, fatigue, and neurocognitive impairment that is probably induced by Lyme disease.

Publication Types:
Research Support, Non-U.S. Gov't
Research Support, U.S. Gov't, P.H.S.

PMID: 8856619 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

--------------------
www.TreatTheBite.com
www.DrJonesKids.org
www.MarylandLyme.org
www.LymeDoc.org

Posts: 20352 | From The Moon | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Tincup         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
And note- isn't this idiot conclusion coming from the home of Wormser himself?

I've figured out what they are saying.. and it boils down to this...

After standard antibiotic treatment you don't have Lyme anymore- you have fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, decreased memory and concentration problems, sleep and mood problems and you suffer from greater distress.

THAT'S ALL FOLKS!

[puke]

--------------------
www.TreatTheBite.com
www.DrJonesKids.org
www.MarylandLyme.org
www.LymeDoc.org

Posts: 20352 | From The Moon | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
bettyg
Unregistered


Icon 5 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
tincup,

help my neuro mind ok; nothing personal on this ... curiosity.

noticed you had several things tonight going back to 1996 and 1999; is this to show us things have NOT CHANGED during this time, and their/IDSA's mentality ??

sorry, i'm just not following this; so wise one, please enlighten me!

COME ON BABY, LIGHT MY FIRE! [Big Grin] [lol] [kiss] [group hug]

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Tincup         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Van Morrison?

Who did "light my fire"? I can't remember? That is who popped in my head when I saw your post anyhow.. silly girl. HA!

[Big Grin]

Good question.

I guess I am posting these things as a way to release some anger first of all. If I didn't scream now and then about all this GARBAGE I have to dig through..

I do believe my head would explode.

Second... I think folks who are new should know how FREAKING stupid these people are and see them for what they are. When we tell people to go to a LLMD rather than the IDSA ducks... these are some of the reasons why.

When we need them to jump on the band wagon to fight and help us win this war... these are some of the reasons why.

Third.. I am deep and filthy dirty in IDSA poop right now while researching for projects I have to do.. and as I stumble across things that are interesting or telling... especially when the IDSA Bumsteere gangs are now saying again that there is no such thing as "chronic Lyme".. etc...

I figured others might be interested too. It shows these lame brains have no clue.

And... I figure folks who haven't had Lyme, etc for more than a couple years may never have seen this stuff.

Kind of a selective, custom made history lesson... without having to wade through ALL the IDSA poo-poo to get the bottom line.

[Big Grin]

BTW- This is only my opinion.

[Razz]

--------------------
www.TreatTheBite.com
www.DrJonesKids.org
www.MarylandLyme.org
www.LymeDoc.org

Posts: 20352 | From The Moon | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Robin123
Moderator
Member # 9197

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Robin123     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think they know but they don't want the public to know. I have seen their old writings from the 90s.
Posts: 13014 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
robi
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5547

Icon 1 posted      Profile for robi     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Jose Feliciano

--------------------
Now, since I put reality on the back burner, my days are jam-packed and fun-filled. ..........lily tomlin as 'trudy'

Posts: 2503 | From here | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Michelle M
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7200

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Michelle M   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by robi:
Jose Feliciano

But originally (and IMHO best) by The Doors/Jim Morrison.

Michelle

Posts: 3193 | From Northern California | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ByronSBell 2007
Unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
PLS..........what a joke [bonk]
IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
sixgoofykids
Moderator
Member # 11141

Icon 1 posted      Profile for sixgoofykids   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yes, the Doors. When they sang it live on the Ed Sullivan Show, they were supposed to leave out a sexually suggestive part (the word "higher") .... but they didn't! LOL http://archives.cnn.com/2002/SHOWBIZ/TV/10/03/ed.sullivan.sidebar/

I am assuming that the discussion of "Light My Fire" is the important part of this thread? (If you could hear my voice you would hear the sarcasm better).

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
just don
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1129

Icon 1 posted      Profile for just don     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Glad you posted this oh Tin one!! NOW I know why I feel the way I do!!! I have PLS,,maybe they will give me something to FEEL better NOW!!!

Whew,,,all this searching and searching and I had PLS the whole while!! WHY didnt they tell me sooner??

NOW If I claim to NOT be able to type(which I cant) maybe I would typo that into PMS!!! thinks--just don--

--------------------
just don

Posts: 4548 | From Middle of midwest | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
map1131
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2022

Icon 1 posted      Profile for map1131     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think a rule on this site is no cussing, SO I will just say BS.

I don't care what these idiots print or what their studies supposedly show....I'm a intelligent (somewhat) woman. If I would only learn to spell check my post.

I used to be a productive hard working Corp. American, tax paying, law abiding citizen, sane and mostly healthy American.

I was treated early on from onset of obvisious symptoms. By "their" protocol. It failed. In fact, my doc knew how ill I was and he kept me on abx even with 2 negative WB.

After, it looked like I could lose it all (my career, my life, our home, our retirement home), I finally was forced to travel 8 hrs one way to see a LLMD.

My insurance company refused to pay for anything starting with my 3rd visit to LLMD. Oh, the self-insuranced company that I worked for 28 yrs did pay on my scripts from LLMD. As long as I had them filled at their pharmacy.

They really didn't have a choice there, my husband also works for the same company(32 yrs).
His script insurance covers family.

I could go back and add up everything I've spent in the last 10 yrs to fight this "non-existing" condition. It would blow a wealthy persons mind.
Even a specialist or scienctist mind and earnings.

So don't tell me I have PLS or any other stupid illness. I'm wise enough to know what I have.
They can label me whatever they want. They aren't in charge of my health and well being.

I am. Now, you've really fired me up TC.

Pam

[ 04. April 2008, 10:24 AM: Message edited by: map1131 ]

--------------------
"Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill

Posts: 6406 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
B R H
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 12159

Icon 1 posted      Profile for B R H     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I don't see the problem. It's clear to me that for many of us, eliminating the "Lyme bacteria" does not eliminate the disease. It's a waste of time & energy to argue otherwise.

Try having a more open mind to the thought that both schools of thought can actually co-exist. FWIW, Marshall's theories explain the contradictions so many of you see in these debates.

The bottom line is that a tick bite did something that drastically altered our health. I don't care what it's called as long as it continues to be recognized as the serious health issue it certainly is.

Posts: 246 | From Grass Valley, CA | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
nellypointis
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 1719

Icon 1 posted      Profile for nellypointis     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by adamm:
Of course these guys know! They created the bacterium

in their labs!

Saying this is the kind of rubbish that can discredit the whole world wide Lyme community.

Bb have been all over the world for...ever! Stop fantasizing.

Nelly (in France)

Posts: 416 | From france | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
IMHisda
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 6998

Icon 1 posted      Profile for IMHisda     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The Doors, Jim Morrison

--------------------
RV

Posts: 249 | From Healing in USA | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
hostbody
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 12695

Icon 1 posted      Profile for hostbody     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks Tin Cup for the chuckle!
Posts: 111 | From York, PA | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397

Icon 1 posted      Profile for sparkle7     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I agree with you BRH. Does it really matter what it's called?

The tests are supposedly inaccurate so how can anyone tell what's actually happening.

The spirochetes can transform, morph, exude toxins, evade detection, etc.

We really don't know if we are ill from spirochetes or what they may leave behind.

As for nellypointis statements... spirochetes may have ben around for thousands of years but the strain that caused Lyme disease has not. Maybe you should read Lab 257 by M. Carroll...

Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
bettyg
Unregistered


Icon 9 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
tincup, old wise one; thanks for the good explanation on my question.

see there has been some lively conversation here.

talked to 1 newbie tonight who had NEVER heard of the lyme controversy and was disgusted that now she's involved in this too in order to try to get a good LLMD to treat her vs. 2 wks. of abx they were going to give her only!

HOG WASH, BS; it's all the same thing coming from IDSA. i'll save my energy on reading other people's stuff and replying.

wow, the membership here is of MY GENERATION!! [Wink] [lol] [hi]

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117

Icon 1 posted      Profile for treepatrol     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by B R H:
I don't see the problem. It's clear to me that for many of us, eliminating the "Lyme bacteria" does not eliminate the disease. It's a waste of time & energy to argue otherwise.

Try having a more open mind to the thought that both schools of thought can actually co-exist. FWIW, Marshall's theories explain the contradictions so many of you see in these debates.

The bottom line is that a tick bite did something that drastically altered our health. I don't care what it's called as long as it continues to be recognized as the serious health issue it certainly is.

Bull

--------------------
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.

Newbie Links

Posts: 10564 | From PA Where the Creeks are Red | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117

Icon 1 posted      Profile for treepatrol     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by sparkle7:
I agree with you BRH. Does it really matter what it's called?

The tests are supposedly inaccurate so how can anyone tell what's actually happening.

The spirochetes can transform, morph, exude toxins, evade detection, etc.

We really don't know if we are ill from spirochetes or what they may leave behind.

As for nellypointis statements... spirochetes may have ben around for thousands of years but the strain that caused Lyme disease has not. Maybe you should read Lab 257 by M. Carroll...

Yes it matters what its called a dog is dog a cat is a cat. To say otherwise is a lie

--------------------
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.

Newbie Links

Posts: 10564 | From PA Where the Creeks are Red | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
B R H
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 12159

Icon 1 posted      Profile for B R H     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
[QUOTE]Originally posted by treepatrol:
Yes it matters what its called a dog is dog a cat is a cat. To say otherwise is a lie/QUOTE]

Okee dokee.

Posts: 246 | From Grass Valley, CA | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | LymeNet home page | Privacy Statement

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:

The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey
907 Pebble Creek Court, Pennington, NJ 08534 USA


| Flash Discussion | Support Groups | On-Line Library
Legal Resources | Medical Abstracts | Newsletter | Books
Pictures | Site Search | Links | Help/Questions
About LymeNet | Contact Us

© 1993-2020 The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.
Use of the LymeNet Site is subject to Terms and Conditions.