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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Lyme and Mycoplasma

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Author Topic: Lyme and Mycoplasma
GiGi
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Lyme and Mycoplasma

What if it's not Lyme Disease? Groundbreaking Research May Provide Answers to why many Chronic Sufferers Don't Respond to Treatment

Main Category: University of New Haven
Article Date: 13 June 2007 - 1:00 PDT

Sapi, an assistant professor of biology and environmental science at the University of New Haven, and several graduate students recently presented research demonstrating that over 84 percent of the ticks they tested were infected by Mycoplasma pathogens, bacteria which can create havoc reminiscent of the Borrelia bacterium responsible for Lyme Disease.

Doctors are starting to realize that some of the patients who exhibit symptoms of Lyme disease but don't respond to treatment may be infected with a Mycoplasma pathogen,'' Sapi says. ``We now have evidence of the presence of human pathogenic Mycoplasma species in deer ticks.''

Sapi presented the research, ``Recent Discoveries of Novel Pathogens in Ixodes Ticks in Southern Connecticut,'' during the national Lyme Disease conference at UNH in May, and will submit it for publishing later this month. She notes that other studies have shown that some patients not responding to treatment for Lyme disease have responded to treatment of Mycoplasma. Determined to find the ``missing link'', Sapi and her cohorts tested 150 deer ticks for Mycoplasma pathogen. Co-infection rates were also very significant, at 27 percent, and three percent of the ticks were infected with all three Mycoplasma pathogens."

(as discussed at a recent Dr. K. "Healing the Brain" Conference)

Take care.

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Monica922
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Great information. I will be going to the May conference. I am curious though what drugs are good for mycoplasma if we have it?
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CD57
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I have heard/read that 9 months of high dose doxy, and Rifampin, attack mycoplasmas. Also perhaps Levaquin. But I'm sure it depends on which species, etc.
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ralph
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Thanks, Gigi.

Further exploration needed by me !

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bunnyfluff
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I have both. Sux. That's all I can say. [shake]

--------------------
4 strong winds that blow lonely,
7 seas that run high.

All those things that don't change
Come what may.

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sparkle7
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I was tested twice for mycoplasma & luckily I don't have it. I believe I was infected with Lyme over 10 years ago - so, maybe the ticks didn't carry mycoplasma back then.

Where do you suppose that these ticks are getting mycoplasma from?

It's my understanding that mycoplasma is also the cause of Gulf War Syndrome...

I'll probably spend some time looking into this when I get a chance. Just curious if anyone knows, offhand, about this.

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tickled1
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Can someone, anyone, PM me w/Dr. J's full name and contact info? I keep testing positive for Myco but not Lyme and understand that the sx can be identical to Lyme. I'm desperate to find a LLMD, or any dr. that is very familiar w/Myco. Please! [confused]
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tickled1
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...oh wait. If this is the Dr. J that only sees kids I guess I'm out of luck. Any other LLMD's in New England familiar w/Myco?
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suki444
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V. interesting. What sort of things Dr K use to treat mycoplasma?
thanks
Emma

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adamm
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Actually, a negative test unfortunately does not rule out the

presence of any tick-borne pathogen. As for where the

mycoplasma comes from--well, let it suffice to say that

some strains of this stuff are actually patented [Eek!] [cussing] [cussing]

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Cold Feet
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Good point Adam...

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/EP0624188.html

NOVEL ADHERENT AND INVASIVE MYCOPLASMA.

This stuff is surreal!

--------------------
My biofilm film: www.whyamistillsick.com
2004 Mycoplasma Pneumonia
2006 Positive after 2 years of hell
2006-08 Marshall Protocol. Killed many bug species
2009 - Beating candida, doing better
Lahey Clinic in Mass: what a racquet!

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GiGi
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Suki, I was diagnosed with Mycoplasma and cleared it up with freeze-dried garlic (organic). And of course, the garlic works on many other problems (antibacterial, antiviral, antifungal......)
I took several capsules several times a day. Originally started with 9-12 and then slowly reduced it.

Take care.

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notkrazybrian
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myco is mostly killed by high doses of plain old doxy, which is a good thing. brian
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aliyalex
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GiGi,

How did you take your garlic? Dr K told me to empty the capsules mix it with water and drink it 3 times a day. Yuck. Would it be better to swallow the capsules than not at all?

Thanks for the Dr K recommendation. I am weight bearing and will walk out of this w/c one of these days soon.

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GiGi
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Aliyalex, either put the content of the capsules in a bit of warmish/room temp water, let sit for a minute, then drink --- at any time in between meals. This can be done on an empty stomach.

If you do not want to open the capsules, you should be taken them right following a meal, while your body is still digesting the other food eaten -- then you benefit also.

Possibly if you have not taken any, start slow and increase. They will also help with the Biofilm I posted about today.

Yes, you will walk away from all of this for certain. Patience.

Take care.

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sparkle7
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Thanks for the recommendation about the freeze dried garlic.

I've been trying to use raw garlic but it's really difficult to get the stuff down. It seems better to use it raw but it is hard to take.

PS - I couldn't find any freeze dried garlic by the name you mentioned on goggle - GiGi...

I did find this great article, though -
http://www.geocities.com/gallisto1/Klinghardt.html

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Mathias
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Great post Gigi.

This was my problem exactly. I also believe that the mycoplasma either suppressed or inundated my immune system so much that I couldn't test positive for lyme.

Antibiotics for mycoplasma are species dependent. Combinations work. Expect a long term treatment.

Mycoplasma pneumoniae
Azithromycin (Zithromax)
Clarithromycin (Biaxin)
Erythromycin
Telithromycin (Ketek)
Dirithromycin (Dynabac)
Doxycycline/Minocycline/Tetracycline

Mycoplasma fermentans
Gemifloxacin (Factive)
Gaitifloxacin (Tequin)
Moxifloxacin (Avelox)
Clindamycin (Cleocin)
Levofloxacin (Levaquin)
Ciprofloxacin (Cipro)
Telithromycin (Ketek)
Doxycycline/Minocycline/Tetracycline

Mycoplasma hominis
Gemifloxacin (Factive)
Moxifloxacin (Avelox)
Gaitifloxacin (Tequin)
Clindamycin (Cleocin)
Ofloxacin (Floxin)
Levofloxacin (Levaquin)
Ciprofloxacin (Cipro)

Mycoplasma penetrans
Levofloxacin (Levaquin)
Ofloxacin (Floxin)
Telithromycin (Ketek)
Clarithromycin (Biaxin)
Azithromycin (Zithromax)
Doxycycline/Minocycline/Tetracycline

Some of these antibiotics are no longer available since I compiled the list a few years ago.

Best combo for me was Factive/Doxy.

--------------------
Mathias

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njlymemom
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that's interesting.....i first tested off the charts for mycoplasma f. even though i was on levaquin for 6 weeks (from a PCP for sinus infection that wouldn't go away)

it wasn't until i no longer tested positive for this that i finally had a positive result for lyme

--------------------
This is NOT medical advice - and should NOT be used to replace your MD's advice. Info is only the opinion of those who publish the site.


The shortest way to do many things is to do only one thing at a time.

cb

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Mo
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i understand dr. j.s. has used olive leaf extract to efficacy in bartonella, and i am becoming convinced it could help with mycoplasma as well.
olive leaf is well researched as being remarkably
effective in a multitude of viruses, bacteria, hiv, fungal, ect --
and is also safe with all other meds, about as safe as a supplement gets.
"herxheimer reactions" are mainly flu-like symptoms.

we also consulted with a homeopath skilled in tbds, who believes bartonella and mycoplasma cannot usually be totally eradicated by ab's alone, due to the elusiveness of these two stealth pathogens and their ability to evade ab's.
he would reccommend classic homeopathy, using the body's own defenses.
i think more than that is needed when symptoms are
very bad.

perhaps olive leaf is less "invasive" and thereby more effective. i understand it is recently more widely used in europe for tbd's.

any thoughts?

mo

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Keebler
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-
Garth Nicolson is one of the primo researchers on mycoplasma.
This is his site.

The Institute for Molecular Medicine

A nonprofit institute dedicated to discovering new diagnostic and therapeutic solutions for chronic mycoplasma infections.

www.immed.org/

www.immed.org/index.htm

www.immed.org/illness/clinical_testing.html

Patient Clinical Tests


For chronic illnesses (CFS, FMS, RA, among other illnesses) that could have an infectious component, The Institute for Molecular Medicine suggests the following lab tests (codes are CPT codes):

1. MycoplasmaTest Panel (CPT: 87798x3, 87581)--Mycoplasma species panel of 4 pathogenic mycoplasmas (M. fermentans, M. penumoniae, M. hominis, M. penetrans) by PCR. Alternatively, a Mycoplasma general (all species) test by Qualitative PCR can be substituted.

Continued at link.

This is good for EVERYONE to look at.

Other tests are discussed, too.

=======================

I just got tested for some he suggested and am positive for HHV-6 and Cpn (+ IgG and + IgM). Oy, Vey! Well, it helps to know.

www.cpnhelp.org is a good site for info. on that.

----

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Keebler
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-
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez
PubMed Search:

olive leaf extract - 37 abstracts

=========================

http://tinyurl.com/2ref85

Molecules. 2007 May 26;12(5):1153-62.

Phenolic compounds and antimicrobial activity of olive (Olea europaea L. Cv. Cobranosa) leaves.

Pereira AP, Ferreira IC, Marcelino F, Valento P, Andrade PB, Seabra R, Estevinho L, Bento A, Pereira JA.

CIMO/Escola Superior Agrria, Instituto Politcnico de Bragana, Campus Sta Apolnia, Apt. 1172, 5301-855 Bragana, Portugal.

We report the determination of phenolic compounds in olive leaves by reversed-phase HPLC/DAD, and the evaluation of their in vitro activity against several microorganisms that may be causal agents of human intestinal and respiratory tract infections, (namely)

namely gram positive (Bacillus cereus, B. subtilis and Staphylococcus aureus), gram negative bacteria (Pseudomonas aeruginosa, Escherichia coli and Klebsiella pneumoniae) and fungi (Candida albicans and Cryptococcus neoformans).

Seven phenolic compounds were identified and quantified: caffeic acid, verbascoside, oleuropein, luteolin 7-O-glucoside, rutin, apigenin 7-O-glucoside and luteolin 4'-O-glucoside.

At low concentrations olive leaves extracts showed an unusual combined antibacterial and antifungal action, which suggest their great potential as nutraceuticals, particularly as a source of phenolic compounds.


PMID: 17873849 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


-

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tailz
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Rifampin kills mycoplasma? I'm negative for bart - was negative for myco when tested, too - but something is helped by rifampin.

The only rife frequency that consistently helped any of my symptoms was 2950 - it hits mycoplasma. I also seem to get some response from mino (not anymore though), and more recently, rifampin.

My insurance won't cover Levaquin, and I can't handle Cipro for more than a couple of days though.

I'm doomed if I need multiple antibiotics to kill this. I seem to only be able to handle one at a time, with maybe artemisinin. If I try two antibiotics at once, it kills me.

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efsd25
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Dr h in CA suggested MYCO by Raintree Nutrition. It seems to help me. it should be easy to google.
Ernie

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christinelyme2
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Hi I'm new and it doesn't seem like anyone wants

to answer my questions. Am I doing something

wrong, do I have to ask differently?? Is there

only certain times people talk?? [confused]

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Keebler
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-

christinelyme2 - I don't see a post above by you.

Are you referring to another thread?

Maybe you started to post a question but it did not go through. If so, please repost as I've never seen a bunch of people so eager to help others.

-

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Keebler
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-

Christine, I went to your profile and see you posted this under another thread. As it did not pertain to the original question of that thread it is possible that no one saw that or they didn't know and were only interested in the Fry blood smear of that thread. Also, your question was only posted today. Sometimes it take a little while.

What I suggest is going back to "medical" forum. Start a new topic. pose your headline question. and copy and paste your post again. Assuming this was the question you wanted addressed.

I'll just answer in part as it's very late here and gotta get the light out of my eyes soon.

Are you going to a LLMD, a doctor who has studied ILADS research and gone to the seminars ? If so, let the doctor ask the questions.

If you have a copy of your medical history ready to hand to the doctor that will be good. And, you may call their office to be sure you have the patient question form so you can fill it out at home a few days prior to your appt. Then, jot down your questions. My guess is that the exam will come first and then, depending upon what the doctor says, your questions will come from that.

---
If this doctor is not an ILADS aware doctor, that changes everything and you should ask questions up front before even getting evaluated. You need to know his education in this field, whose articles he's read, what seminars he's attended, which professionals groups he follows regarding Tick-borne infections (TBI).

It is so much easier to get a recommendation from you local lyme support group and stay clear of doctor who clearly are not informed.

-----
LLMD (lyme literate medical doctor, a term that regular doctors hate, BTW. And some will say they are LL but are not.)

So, if you've got a good doctor whom you can trust, let them carry on. Be sure to have a list of recent and current meds as well as whatever protocol you did 2 yrs ago when you were dx with lyme.

As for the spots on your MRI, that is common with lyme, too. With treatment, they often disappear. Please do not agree to a lumbar puncture (spinal tap) unless something very acute and serious is going on. Lumbar punctures are not a good test for detecting lyme - and even with MS it's not a great test. More on that later.

Also, please DO NOT take any steroids unless life-threatening and then, since you have a history of lyme and possible current symptoms, only if you have antibiotics first, if possible. Of course, if you are currently on steroids, medical advice if you stop as to how to taper very slowly off. very slowly - with a doctor's advice.

I gotta get to bed.

Good luck.

now, here's your original question to repost in a separate thread.

=======================================

Hi! I was wondering if anyone else has the numbness and tinglyness on different parts

of their body? I also have spots on my MRI's and doctors think I have MS. I was diagnosed with lyme two years ago. Now I'm going to see a specialist for the first time next week.

What questions are good to ask?


==

[ 04. May 2008, 03:38 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Keebler
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-

Christine,

this might help.
===================

http://tinyurl.com/2dmvs2

Clinical Advisor
Clinical Feature
Issue Story
From the May 2007 issue of Clinical Advisor

Controversy continues to fuel the "Lyme War"
By Virginia Savely, RN, FNP-C

*****
As two medical societies battle over its diagnosis and treatment, Lyme disease remains a frequently missed illness. Here is how to spot and treat it.

- full article at link above.

============
============

http://www.ilads.org/goldings.html

CONTROVERSIES IN NEUROBORRELIOSIS

Audrey Stein Goldings, M.D.

Updated October, 2002

excerpt:

The objectives of this article are to cover issues related to Lyme disease that are not even-handedly addressed in the current literature. It will:

1 Present a practical approach for making the diagnosis of neuroborreliosis,

2 Explore the other side of the post-Lyme syndrome (i.e. the likelihood of chronic ongoing infection),

3 Discuss the relationship between MS and Lyme,

4 Critique the current regimens published for treating neuroborreliosis, and

5 Present my own approach which may differ from some leading authorities.


- full article at link above.

=================

www.ilads.org ILADS

========================

Links of interest:

http://www.lymenet.de/literatur/steroids.htm

Antibiotics and Steroids


================

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Brussels
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My cat has chronic mycoplasma and I had it acute too, caught last May (2007). Fortunately gone.

My cat was treated with garlic powder, propolis, St. Johns wort (I think), ledum and hypericum homeopathic, that I remember. He still coughs, but it's less bad than before. I think he's got it since I know him (6 months old).

My mycoplasma herbs were:
- frozen garlic (2-3 capsules/day), after eating
- gervao (rain tree): 3 00 capsules a day
- propolis tincture (10 drops/day)
- oregano oil diluted on sesame oil rubbed on belly area (as mycoplasma was testing strong there): 2x da,far from homeopathics.
- homeopathic Ledum 30C - 6 gloubles (tiny ones), every other day, separate at least 10 minutes from everything else. It tested very good against mycoplasma, better for me than 200C (but I had it acute).
- ST Johns wort capsules (2 capsules a day)
- forsythia powder (00 capsules), 1 capsule 2-3 times a day (I added that in the end of my attack plan).
- KMT program 5 (brain and tummy area).

Herbs from Buhner of core protocol that tested good for helping eliminate mycoplasma:
- cats claw (whole herb)
- Japanese knotweed.

I was on Buhners main protocol too while attacking mycoplasma.

Para Rizol Y for me tested against mycoplasma too.

This was all done by energetic tests. I had mycoplasma according to ART only, and coughs / lung symptoms, if I remember well. I treated it for a few weeks/ months, and it was gone, so far not back.

Selma

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djf2005
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can someone explain to me how to make these "frozen garlic" capsules or point me in the right direction of where its posted.

thanks

d

--------------------
"Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."

[email protected]

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bejoy
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Thanks GIGI for all your great posts.

D - if you scroll down medical you will find two topics on garlic posted in the past week. They are full of garlic info from GIGI and others.

I test negative for mycoplasma. I may have just been very lucky. However, I did take lots of garlic for about a year, some time ago, when I had arthritic symptoms in my fingers, knees, and neck, and the symptoms went away. Makes me wonder if I could have had myco and treated it.

A thought here - does anyone have info? It seems to me that we need to take some salt to treat myco. (Moderation, of course, as too much causes problems too.) We have to have plenty of sodium in the body to allow fluid to cross the cell walls.

Many people with low adrenal function are low on sodium, and may have problems getting medications/herbs into the cells where mycoplasma hang out. This is my take on it. What do you think?

--------------------
bejoy!

"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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tosho
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Derek - you can buy this garlic here (in capsules)
http://www.biopureus.com/products.htm

http://www.biopureus.com/docs/Garlic.pdf

It is strong.

(one bad side effect is that it makes a lot of odour)

--------------------
[Bb WB igm+] [B.henselae PCR+] [Chlamydia pneum.igm+igg+] [EBV igm-igg+]

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SForsgren
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And you should not just take the capsules - you should open the capsules in water, stir, wait about a minute and then drink. You won't get the same effect if you swallow the caps.

--------------------
Be well,
Scott

Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Mathias
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quote:
Originally posted by tailz:
Rifampin kills mycoplasma? I'm negative for bart - was negative for myco when tested, too - but something is helped by rifampin.

From what I have read, Rifampin has no effect on mycoplasma. I'll try to find the article.

Unfortunately, quinlones seem to be the best abx choice in most cases.

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Mathias

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Brussels
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That's how I took the frozen garlic too (open it, put in water, stir, wait a bit and drink it).

I think in the end, the naturopath told me I could do it before meals, but in the beginning I was doing it after meals.

I took the Biopure version. I wonder if there's any other brand that sells freeze garlic??

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tosho
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You can buy 'dr.Klinghardt series' freeze dried garlic. It is the same as biopure.
http://www.ink.ag/

All information about chlamydia and mycoplasma is here:
www.cpnhelp.org

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[Bb WB igm+] [B.henselae PCR+] [Chlamydia pneum.igm+igg+] [EBV igm-igg+]

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