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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Unidentified rash

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Author Topic: Unidentified rash
ForestNymph
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I have a wierd rash that covers my hips, lower back and thighs . Actually I don't know if it's considered a rash, but here are some pictures of what it looks like.

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It appeared about a month ago. It has been a mystery to me since. I have also had a worsening of symptoms but I don't know if it's related.

I couldn't find anything on the web but I don't really know what to look for. I was hoping someone might recognize it.

Does anyone know if this is at all connected to Lyme or other TBDs? I already have an extensive Bart rash...could this also be Bartonella?

--------------------
Infected in March '06

Lyme Disease, Bartonella, Babesia

Diagnosed June '07

Remission Since September 2011.

My Story:
http://lymelabyrinth.blogspot.com

www.myspace.com/psyche_entranced

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bettyg
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forest, someone else posted photos awhile back that looked very similiar to what you have!

from my newbie package; do you have mine?


RASHES BARTONELLA on the above web site.
http://www.lymediseaseassociation.org/PhotoAlbum_RashBart.html


The rash finder is great! From Ann-Ohio, 10-07
http://www.visualdxhealth.com
http://tinyurl.com/37j8ks


RASH ITCHES TIP -- use CORN STARCH or ``rubbing alcohol`` on it especially the corners good. Hubby suggested; worked great for me; rash cleared up in 2 days vs. weeks/month. Many use in bath water!


10 Home Remedy Treatments for Itching by SOMETIMESDILLY 3.29.08
http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=064877#000009


PHOTOS OF DARK-SKIN RASHES:
http://www.lyme.org/gallery/em_patmas3.html
However, this skin does not look very dark. I guess that on really dark skin it would be hard to see at all.
http://www.lyme.org/gallery/emmasters.html


PHOTOS OF RASHES ... VARIOUS TYPES by Tincup 4.08
http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=065399

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Carol in PA
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There is a medical term for when the blood vessels look like that.

On the lower picture, I see some Bartonella rash marks.......they look like stretch marks, but are not.

Carol

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DakotasMom01
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I have this too and is much worse when I am cold!Mine has spread.

I don't know if this is what it is, but I found this info yesterday the last link has pics.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/livedo-reticularis/AN01622

Livedo reticularis is a vascular condition characterized by a purplish mottled discoloration of the skin, usually on the legs. This discoloration is described as lacy or net-like in appearance.

Livedo reticularis can be a normal condition that causes no symptoms and needs no treatment. But it can also be associated with a serious underlying disorder, such as lupus, anti-phospholipid syndrome or Sneddon's syndrome.

In addition, livedo reticularis may occur as a side effect of certain medications, such as hydroxyurea.

Livedo reticularis may be aggravated by cold exposure. If livedo reticularis is accompanied by pain or discomfort or if ulcers develop in the affected skin, further evaluation may be required.

When necessary, treatment depends on the underlying cause, if known, and the severity of symptoms

I also looked this up~~ Antiphospholipid syndrome is a disorder in which your immune system mistakenly produces antibodies to certain proteins in your blood.

Antibodies are cells that normally attack bodily invaders, such as viruses and bacteria. This disorder can cause clotting within your arteries or veins and a variety of other problems, some life-threatening.

Antiphospholipid syndrome may cause clots to form in the large veins of your legs, and sometimes your arms, a condition known as deep vein thrombosis (DVT).

Besides pain and swelling in the affected limb, thrombosis carries a risk of the clot breaking off and traveling to your lungs, where it can obstruct blood flow.

Blood clots sometimes form in the veins and arteries of various body organs. Damage depends on the extent and location of the clot and which organ it affects.

For instance, impaired blood flow to your brain can lead to stroke. Impaired blood flow to your kidneys can cause kidney failure.

Pregnant women with antiphospholipid syndrome may have miscarriages or stillbirths. Also, antiphospholipid syndrome often occurs in people, particularly women, who have another immune system disorder, such as lupus.

There's no cure for antiphospholipid syndrome, but medications may reduce your risk of developing blood clots.

When you bleed, such as from a cut or menstruation, your body protects you from losing too much blood by the process of clotting (coagulation).

Clotting is a complex process, involving a number of steps and several bodily substances.

Phospholipids, which make up cell membranes, are one of the substances involved.

If you have antiphospholipid syndrome, your antibodies mistakenly attack either your phospholipids or proteins in your blood that bind to your phospholipids.

It's possible to have these antibodies without ever developing signs or symptoms.

However, if you have these antibodies, your risk of developing blood clots increases, particularly if you become pregnant, remain immobile for a period of time (such as sitting during a long airline flight), undergo surgery, smoke cigarettes, have high blood pressure or high cholesterol, or take oral contraceptives.

The signs and symptoms you develop with antiphospholipid syndrome depend on where clots form or travel to. A clot that forms or a traveling clot (embolus) may cause:

Blood clots in your legs (deep vein thrombosis)
Blood clots that travel into your lungs (pulmonary embolism)

Repeated miscarriages or stillbirths and other complications of pregnancy, such as premature delivery and high blood pressure during pregnancy (preeclampsia)

Stroke
Other less common signs and symptoms include:

Neurological symptoms. Chronic headaches, including migraines, dementia and seizures are possible when a blood clot obstructs blood flow to your brain.

Rash. Some people develop a red rash with a lacy, net-like pattern (livedo reticularis) on their wrists and knees.

Cardiovascular disease. About one in three people with antiphospholipid syndrome have heart valve abnormalities.

Heart valves open and close to keep blood flowing through your heart's four chambers in only one direction.

Typically, the mitral valve -- the valve between your heart's upper left and lower left chambers -- develops masses or thickens, which can cause blood to leak backwards through it (regurgitation).

The aortic valve -- the valve between your heart's lower left chamber and aorta -- also may be affected.

Bleeding. Some people experience a decrease in platelets, blood cells necessary for normal clotting.

If you have this condition (thrombocytopenia), you may have few or no symptoms.

However, if your platelet count drops too low, you may have episodes of bleeding, particularly from your nose and gums. You can also bleed into your skin, which will appear as patches of small, red spots (petechiae).
Infrequent signs and symptoms include:

Movement disorder, in which your body and limbs jerk uncontrollably (chorea)
Cognitive problems, such as poor memory
Sudden hearing loss

Mental health problems, such as depression or psychosis
There are two main classifications of antiphospholipid syndrome:

Primary. If you have no other autoimmune disorder, such as systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE), you have primary antiphospholipid syndrome.

Secondary. If you do have lupus or other autoimmune disorder, your antiphospholipid syndrome is secondary.

With secondary antiphospholipid syndrome, the cause is considered to be your lupus or other autoimmune disorder.

The cause of primary antiphospholipid syndrome is unknown. However, some factors are associated with developing antiphospholipid antibodies -- though not necessarily developing the syndrome. They include:

Infections. People with syphilis, HIV infection, hepatitis C and malaria, among others, have a higher incidence of having the antibodies .

Medications. Taking certain drugs, such as the high blood pressure medication hydralazine, anti-seizure medication phenytoin (Dilantin) and the antibiotic amoxicillin (Amoxil, Augmentin, Trimox), may lead to an increased risk .

Genetic predispositions. Although the disorder isn't considered hereditary, research indicates that relatives of people with antiphospholipid syndrome are more likely to have the antibodies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livedoid_vasculitis has more info.

Photo link
http://dermis.multimedica.de/dermisroot/en/42784/diagnose.htm

Hope this helps

--------------------
Take Care,
DakotasMom01

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Sojourner
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This looks very similiar to a "rash" (not sure that is a good term either) that my daughter had which got worse when she began treatment and is much better now.

She has Bart.....and has had several strange skin things, so I speculate that this is the reason!

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Carol in PA
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Last night when I was falling asleep, I remembered the word I was looking for: Livedo reticularis.

But DakotasMom01 beat me to it!

[Smile]


From what I remember reading, several LLMD's have said that Livedo reticularis is a symptom of tick borne infection.


ForestNymph --
I am pretty sure you have Bartonella, based on that one picture.
I don't know what your other symptoms are.

Carol

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daise
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Hi ForestNymph,

Your photos look vaguely familiar, as if I'm seeing myself back decades ago. My thighs looked like that, too, now that I think of it.

In my mind, I've had bart since I was a girl, thankfully a mild case, except maybe when my thighs looked like yours and my soles tingled and burned with pins and needles, and were red.

I love kitties!

There's nothing like knowing what you have. Have a great day!

daise [Smile]

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hshbmom
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Hey nymph,


Have you seen the most recent edition of the Public Health Alert? There are some photos of Bartonella signs on page 2. Note the rash on the top left looks just like your rash.


http://www.publichealthalert.org/pdfnew/2008_05.pdf


There are other good Bartonella rash photos on the Lyme Disease Association website. See the menu on the left, the link to rashes is near the bottom.


http://www.lymediseaseassociation.org/

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ForestNymph
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Thank you everyone for taking the time to read and respond. It really means a lot to me.

I looked at the photo of the Livedo Reticularis "rash" and it looks exactly like what I have. Should I be concerned about this or is it usually harmless?

It's such a relief to finally know. I felt the same when I first found out my "stretch marks" are Bartonella.

I have known about the Bartonella for awhile. I will include pics here as a reference for anyone interested.

 -

 -

--------------------
Infected in March '06

Lyme Disease, Bartonella, Babesia

Diagnosed June '07

Remission Since September 2011.

My Story:
http://lymelabyrinth.blogspot.com

www.myspace.com/psyche_entranced

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Alv
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WOUUUU

You have big time BART henselae and maybe other strains too!

The spider veins --the little ones that you have are bart..the blue color that you have on your thighs ..is the color that I have( BLO) and stretch marks on your back are B HENSELAE.

The thighs is exactly as my color and my son` s color.We both have BLO.

My daughter had the thighs with some marks and stretch marks as your back like yours and came back positive for bartonella henselae.


So be careful as you might have more than one strain.

I do too!

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SmurfyMom
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Hey! My son just walked in (he's 9) and saw that top pic. He said "How'd that get on there?"

He thought it was the picture I'd taken of HIS legs a few weeks ago.

No kidding. Oh MAN! I am feeling so much better about suspecting he has congenital TBIs.

I totally thought I was just crazy or something, but did think of bartonella when the rash thing popped up, so snapped some pics.

Now to figure out how to work the insurance issue to get him tested and treated... *sigh*

Chris

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daise
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Hi Chris,

I'm glad you saw these pictures!

daise [Smile]

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lnc2000
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Hi All,

I have the same rash (circular and net-like) on both arms and knee, it look like livedo. I google and found that it may be cause by syphyllis or lupus, anyone have any idea?

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lnc2000
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Hi All,

I have the same rash (circular and net-like) on both arms and knee, it look like livedo. I google and found that it may be cause by syphyllis or lupus, anyone have any idea?

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Leelee
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quote:
Originally posted by hshbmom:
Hey nymph,


Have you seen the most recent edition of the Public Health Alert? There are some photos of Bartonella signs on page 2. Note the rash on the top left looks just like your rash.


http://www.publichealthalert.org/pdfnew/2008_05.pdf


There are other good Bartonella rash photos on the Lyme Disease Association website. See the menu on the left, the link to rashes is near the bottom.


http://www.lymediseaseassociation.org/

The link to the Public Health Alert is excellent. Thanks for posting.

I agree with everyone who suggest Bartonella. I see the tale-tell streaks. Plus, the mottled looking skin in some of your photos looks similar to the skin on my chest. My LLMD says I have Bartonella so the pieces fit.

--------------------
The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. Martin Luther King,Jr

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Rambler
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Wow. I had that on my thighs when I was 12, in junior high school. It was horrible- cold winter days and we were forced to wear these awful one piece polyester sip-up short suits. My legs were a mosaic of pink and purple splotches that were also covered by a million little pimply things. I could'a died of embarassment. Jeeze. It was probably Bart, huh?

--------------------
Be Well

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kitty9309
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10997315

[Livedo racemosa: an unusual late manifestation of borreliosis?]
[Article in German]


Baumann M, Tebbe B, Arnold M, Krengel S, Goerdt S, Orfanos CE.
Klinik und Poliklinik fr Dermatologie, Universittsklinikum Benjamin Franklin, Freie Universitt Berlin.

Classic variants of cutaneous borreliosis are erythema chronicum migrans (ECM), lymphadenosis benigna cutis (LBC) and acrodermatitis chronica atrophicans (ACA). Other dermatoses have been reported in the literature as possibly linked to borreliosis. A 59-year old female patient was seen in the late phases of cutaneous borreliosis with histologically confirmed ACA. In addition, prominent livedo racemosa was seen on the legs, also showing tissue changes similar to those of ACA. Borrelia burgdorferi infection was serologically confirmed by the presence of anti-IgM and anti-IgG antibodies. The clinical spectrum of late cutaneous borreliosis should be enlarged to include livedo racemosa.

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Piegirl
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I have had the lacy pattern on my legs also. And, like Rambler my legs were also covered in these tiny pimply looking things.

At the same time, I got many brown circles all over the same area too. I also, felt like I was being stung by bees all over this area non-stop for two months straight. Worse pain I've ever been in.

I have found pictures of these skin things in the public health alert posted above. In the article Dr. Schaller says that it's all from Bart. I have a lot of bart symptoms. After a few months my legs went back to normal, except I was left with spider veins all over (another bart symptom).

Mary

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mjbucuk
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This pattern is how my son first got diagnosed with Bartonella. I sent this photo to Dr S in FL and he confirmed that it matched the photos in his Bartonella book (which I had already purchased.) Eventually we noticed a pinhead-sized red dot in the middle of each circle.... the red dots turned out to be extra capillaries that something called VEGF causes to grow. Dr S also referred to the pattern as something like chicken coop... like the kind of wire...
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hshbmom
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My family member has this same lacy rash, in a chicken-wire like pattern. It was diagnosed by a great LLMD as Bartonella.

Do you have severe digestive, neurological, and pain issues too? ...seizures?

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