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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » C Difficile?

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Author Topic: C Difficile?
Carolynjane
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Hi All,

hoping somebody on here might be able to help me figure out what going on with my stomach. I ve been having some stomach issues for about 3 weeks now after being on Mepron, Zithomax and Bicillin IM. My energy improved alot while i was on them but i developed frequent diarrhea, vomiting and severe burning pain in the abdomen. the diarrhea happens everyday but the nausea and severe pain are about every second day. My doctor prescribed Nystatin for yeast and ive been taking that at high doses aswell as lots and lots of probiotics (150-200 billion/day) and anti fungals. Im experiecing very little die off from the these things and i know in the past when i had Candida issues i have horrendeous die off so im wondering if yeast is not the problem and maybe its a C diff infection or something else? ive been very careful with my diet and have been constantly taking antifungals/diflucan etc so was very surprised at the idea that it might be yeast. also when i had candida issues before i had very different symptoms, i certainly had no pain as severe as this one is. it kinda feels like my stomach turns to molten lava, a hot burning pain that makes me throw up. if anyone has any experience with any of this (my sympathies if you do;)) i would really appreciate ur advice, thanks!!

ps am off all anti biotic s now and have been for over a week but no improvement in symptoms yet

Posts: 11 | From Doylestown, PA | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ElaineC
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Have you made your LLMD aware of the severity of your stomach issues?

To rule out C.Diff get a stool sample checked - good to do it 3 days in a row to make sure.

I hope you feel better soon...i know how awful stomach issues are - but if this continues so severely maybe you should get checked at the ER, or get your LLMD to refer you to a GI doc.

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Carolynjane
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thanks Elaine, i guess ive been worrying about it a bit, i told my doc last week and they thought it was yeast but i contacted them again today and they are going to get back to me tomorrow and have suggested getting some tests done. did make it through the day today with throwing up,yay;) small victory but what can u do?!
thanks so much for ur advice:)

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Carolynjane
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oops i meant without throwing up!
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Carolynjane
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actually my doc s PA did mention that C diff usually came with blood in the stool and i dont have that but not sure if it could still be c diff? if anyone has any thoughts id appreciate it, thank you:)
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WildCondor
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I got c.diff and it is a huge problem. Once you get it, you have to stop taking all your Lyme antibiotics, and likely for a very long time, if not for good. In order to protect against c.diff, you should take probiotics and Florastor. If you are taking Nystatin and Diflucam don't bother with Florastor because the antifungals will just kill the Florastor off.

Yes, of course you can have it with or without blood in the stool, everyone is different. It ranges from mild diarrhea and cramps to nausea, cramping pain, and horrible unrelenting diarrhea.
I was in the hospital 3x from this beast and its NOT fun. It's scarier than Lyme in many ways, trust me that's saying alot coming from me.
Be VERY careful.

Antibiotics predispose you to c.diff by altering your normal GI gut flora. It takes a combination of altered gut bacteria(which antibiotics do) plus the ingestion of the c.difficile spore. That is VERY easy to do, and very common. You can get c.diff anytime you are on any antibiotic. You are at higher risk the more antibiotics you are on, and esp. if you are on Clindamycin, which is the # 1 c.diff offender. All Lyme antibioticas can cause this. If you are not taking Florastor already, you should be! I would stop the yeast meds and add Florastor 4x per day.

You have to do 3 stool tests in a row and it has to be a diarrhea sample. Get them to the lab quickly and tested for toxins A& B. False negatives are very common. You can have c.diff without diarrhea too. Don't start Flagyl until you finish the stool testing or it will be a false negative.

Flagyl is usually used first, if that fails, then Vancomycin. c.diff has a VERY VERY high relapse rate so make sure you treat it for long enough and avoid all antibiotics besides Flagyl and Vancomycin for good.

www.cdiffsupport.com
and
http://www.publichealthalert.org/Articles/laurazeller/one%20tough%20bug.html

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heiwalove
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question -- can you acquire c diff if you haven't been using abx? or is that unlikely?

i have gastro symptoms as well, particularly loose stools/diarrhea (though they aren't foul-smelling), nausea, and lack of appetite.

i'm treating my lyme and co naturally at the moment and haven't taken any antibiotics in a long, long time.

is it still possible i could have c diff? or are my symptoms more likely due to toxin buildup or the illnesses themselves?

thanks.

oh, i've been on florastor and probiotics this whole time.

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WildCondor
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It's possible. If you have the spore and your Gi has been upset by previous antibiotics...even years earlier, it can still affect you. Remember that herbs and natural antibiotics can also disrupt your GI flora and pre-dispose you to c.diff. [Frown]
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heiwalove
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yikes. thanks wildcondor.

i sent you a pm, but how do you recover from c diff while treating lyme? do you have to stop all antimicrobial treatment, natural or not? can you ever take abx again? [Frown]

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Carolynjane
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thanks so much Wildcondor, i really appreciate all the information. im still waiting to hear back from my doctors office but am taking sachromyces boulardii and culturelle as ive read that their probiotic helps against c Diff. ive actaully managed 2 days so far without diarrhea or the bad burning pain just lots of gas and bloating so im crossing my fingers it is helping. i wont take it lightly though i know its not something to mess around with and its good to know that it doesnt always present with blood because i know it would be dangerous to dismiss the idea and then let it get worse and worse. im so sorry you had such a tough time with it but thank you for letting others benefit from ur experience. i may ask the doc to try a course of flagyl just incase and see if it helps also. will let you know how it goes!
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WildCondor
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Yes, you have to stop all your Lyme treatment. You might be able to continue it at some point if you are lucky, but you usually have to stop Lyme treatment for good once you get c.diff. It has a VERY high relapse rate, and anytime you take an antibiotics, you disturb your GI flora and increase your chances of another relapse. You do not need to have blood, and the diarrhea ranges from 4x per day to 30x per day, cramps, fever, nausea, etc. You can have some or all of the symptoms.

You have to take Florastor 4-8x per day pretty much for good in order to protect yourself. You can use Flagyl for Lyme treatment because it also treats c.diff. IV Vancomycin may be one of the only treatment options for relapsing c.diff and Lyme patients. So, it's a scary situation.

Herbal preparations can still disturb your gut flora, and trigger relapses. Natural antibiotics are still antibiotics and you have to be super careful. You also have to get antibiotic free chicken and beef!

So..be careful, take your Florastor and VSL#3, and at any sign of c.diff, stop your antibiotics....get 3 samples of diarrhea to the lab for c.diff toxins A & B as fast as you can.

Hope that helps you guys. [Smile]
[toilet]

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heiwalove
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thanks wildcondor.

up for more insight. i think some other folks on here have been able to treat c diff and stay on or return to their lyme tx without problems. i'd love to hear from them in particular. [Smile]

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amk33
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Zithromax (and any macrolide) gives me diarrhea. I had nausea like you describe, but never threw up, when I had gastritis. Maybe

your stomach lining is very irritated from these potent meds-causing gastritis-combined with the diarrhea side-effects.

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heiwalove
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up for any more thoughts [Smile]

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Dayle Ann
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My son-in-law has had c. difficile, ended up in the hospital dehydrated from diarrhea, no blood in stool (where did that bit come from?). Before his diagnosis with Lyme, he had severe IBS, so could be his digestive system was already pretty out of whack.

Difficile often strikes suddenly. The most common occurance is hospital patients on antibiotics because the medical establishment still don't get that people on abx need probiotics.

Many if not most people have the bacteria, but don't have problems because their gut flora is in balance. Difficile gets hold because it is not affected by the kind of antibiotics used for Lyme (and to prevent post-surgical complications), and when other bacteria are killed off, it has a free run. Er, so to speak. It does respond to a different type of antibiotic.

My son-in-law's LLMD took him off Lyme abx and on an abx for difficile and LOTS of probiotics to get his gut back in balance. Also treated for myco and yeast. He is on no sugar, no yeast, complex carbs, lots of veggies and protein to heal. Was able to complete abx therapy along with herbal support and probiotics. I believe he is currently using herbs only. His gut is doing well, and although he is on the watch for return of symptoms, healing nicely.

Dayle Ann

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