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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Grapefruit Seed Extract GSE Studies - Antibiotic?

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Author Topic: Grapefruit Seed Extract GSE Studies - Antibiotic?
METALLlC BLUE
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J Altern Complement Med. 2002 Jun;8(3):333-40.Click here to read Links

Erratum in:
J Altern Complement Med 2002 Aug;8(4):521. Reagor Lana [corrected to Reagor Lee].

The effectiveness of processed grapefruit-seed extract as an antibacterial agent: II. Mechanism of action and in vitro toxicity. Heggers JP, Cottingham J, Gusman J, Reagor L, McCoy L, Carino E, Cox R, Zhao JG.

Department of Surgery (Plastic), School of Medicine, University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston, USA. [email protected]

OBJECTIVES: Recent testimonials report grapefruit-seed extract, or GSE (Citricidal) to be effective against more than 800 bacterial and viral strains, 100 strains of fungus, and a large number of single and multicelled parasites. This study investigated GSE for antibacterial activity at varying time intervals and concentration levels and tissue toxicity at varying concentrations in an effort to determine if a concentration existed that was both microbicidal and nontoxic and in what period of time.

DESIGN: Gram-negative and gram-positive isolates were introduced into graduated dilutions of GSE (twofold concentrations ranging from 1:1, through 1:512) for determination of bacterial activity. In vitro assays with human skin fibroblast cells were also performed at the same dilutions to determine toxicity.

RESULTS: These tests indicated that from the 1:1 through the 1:128 concentrations, GSE remained toxic as well as bactericidal. However, test results indicated that at the 1:512 dilution, GSE remained bactericidal, but completely nontoxic.

CONCLUSIONS: The initial data shows GSE to have antimicrobial properties against a wide range of gram-negative and gram-positive organisms at dilutions found to be safe. With the aid of scanning transmission electron microscopy (STEM), the mechanism of GSE's antibacterial activity was revealed.

It was evident that GSE disrupts the bacterial membrane and liberates the cytoplasmic contents within 15 minutes after contact even at more dilute concentrations.
-------------------------------------------

Acta Pharm. 2004 Sep;54(3):243-50.Links
Antimicrobial activity of grapefruit seed and pulp ethanolic extract. Cvetnić Z, Vladimir-Knezević S.

Department of Microbiology, Faculty of Pharmacy and Biochemistry, University of Zagreb, Croatia. [email protected]

Antibacterial and antifungal activity of ethanolic extract of grapefruit (Citrus paradisi Macf., Rutaceae) seed and pulp was examined against 20 bacterial and 10 yeast strains. The level of antimicrobial effects was established using an in vitro agar assay and standard broth dilution susceptibility test. The contents of 3.92% of total polyphenols and 0.11% of flavonoids were determined spectrometrically in crude ethanolic extract.

The presence of flavanones naringin and hesperidin in the extract was confirmed by TLC analysis. Ethanolic extract exibited the strongest antimicrobial effect against Salmonella enteritidis (MIC 2.06%, m/V). Other tested bacteria and yeasts were sensitive to extract concentrations ranging from 4.13% to 16.50% (m/V).

--------------------------------

: J Altern Complement Med. 2002 Jun;8(3):325-32.Click here to read Links

The effectiveness of processed grapefruit-seed extract as an antibacterial agent: I. An in vitro agar assay. Reagor L, Gusman J, McCoy L, Carino E, Heggers JP.

School of Medicine, University of Texas, Medical Branch, Galveston, USA.

OBJECTIVES: Grapefruit-seed extract (GSE) Citricidal has, in recent reports, been reported to be successful in combating a variety of common infectious agents. In our study, drops of concentrated grapefruit-seed extract were tested for antibacterial properties against a number of gram-positive and gram-negative organisms.

DESIGN: Sixty-seven (67) distinct biotypes were tested for their susceptibilities to the GSE as well as to 5 other topical antibacterials (Silvadene, Sulfamylon, Bactroban, Nitrofurazone, and Silvadene, Nystatin). Wells were punched into Mueller-Hinton agar plates, which were then inoculated with the organism to be tested; each well was then inoculated with one of the antibacterial agents.

After an overnight incubation period, the plates were checked for zones of bacterial susceptibility around the individual wells, with a measured susceptibility zone diameter of 10 mm or more considered a positive result. RESULTS: The GSE was consistently antibacterial against all of the biotypes tested, with susceptibility zone diameters equal to or greater than 15 mm in each case.

CONCLUSIONS: Our preliminary data thus suggest an antibacterial characteristic to GSE that is comparable to that of proven topical antibacterials. Although the GSE appeared to have a somewhat greater inhibitory effect on gram-positive organisms than on gram-negative organisms, its comparative effectiveness against a wide range of bacterial biotypes is significant.

-------------------------------

Grapefruit Seed Extract is a Powerful In Vitro Agent Against Motile and Cystic Forms of Borrelia
burgdorferi Sensu Lato

Infection. 2007 Jun;35(3):206-8. Brorson O, Brorson SH.

Lyme borreliosis [1], caused by B. burgdorferi sensu lato, may lead to long-term tissue infection, which may be difficult to cure. The outcome of Lyme borreliosis is highly dependant on the antibiotic treatment [2]. The observation of the ability of B. burgdorferi sensu lato to convert (and reconvert) to cystic forms [3-5] may explain why the infection sometimes is persistent and reactivating.

Therefore, it might be important to eradicate all germative forms (not only the motile form) of the bacterium to obtain a proper treatment for Lyme borreliosis. Grapefruit-seed extract (GSE) contains bioactive flavenoids (e.g., hesperitin, resveratrol, and naringenin) and has been shown to possess anti-microbiological effect against bacteria and fungus [6,7]. Many studies indicate that GSE is a substance whose therapeutic effect ranks equal to or better than other
known anti-bacterial agents.

Conclusion: The highest GSE concentrations made the bacteria and cysts disappear completely, leaving only small uncharacteristic fragments; at lower GSE-levels the membranes showed herniation and disruption, and the contents had leaked out. The MBC was strongly dependent on the length of the incubation. GSE was very active even for very short incubation times, in agreement with previous results [7].

The MBC obtained by DFM for the motile bacteria agreed well with the TEM results. Presence of GSE reduced the conversion from spirochetes to cysts when the susceptibility testing was performed in distilled water.

This study was performed in vitro and further studies are needed to demonstrate eventual effects in vivo. From our results it will be rational to test the hypothesis that a combination of GSE and antibiotics will be efficient in the treatment of resistant Lyme borreliosis.

More to come. All research came from pubmed.gov -- it doesn't get anymore credible than that folks.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

Posts: 4157 | From Western Massachusetts | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
METALLlC BLUE
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World J Gastroenterol. 2005 Nov 7;11(41):6450-8.Click here to read Links

Grapefruit-seed extract attenuates ethanol-and stress-induced gastric lesions via activation of prostaglandin, nitric oxide and sensory nerve pathways.

Brzozowski T, Konturek PC, Drozdowicz D, Konturek SJ, Zayachivska O, Pajdo R, Kwiecien S, Pawlik WW, Hahn EG.

Department of Physiology, Jagiellonian University Medical College, Cracow, Poland. [email protected]

AIM: Grapefruit-seed extract (GSE) containing flavonoids, possesses antibacterial and antioxidative properties but whether it influences the gastric defense mechanism and gastroprotection against ethanol- and stress-induced gastric lesions remains unknown. METHODS: We compared the effects of GSE on gastric mucosal lesions induced in rats by topical application of 100% ethanol or 3.5 h of water immersion and restraint stress (WRS) with or without (A) inhibition of cyclooxygenase (COX)-1 activity by indomethacin and rofecoxib, the selective COX-2 inhibitor, (B) suppression of NO-synthase with L-NNA (20 mg/kg ip), and (C) inactivation by capsaicin (125 mg/kg sc) of sensory nerves with or without intragastric (ig) pretreatment with GSE applied 30 min prior to ethanol or WRS.

One hour after ethanol and 3.5 h after the end of WRS, the number and area of gastric lesions were measured by planimetry, the gastric blood flow (GBF) was assessed by H2-gas clearance technique and plasma gastrin levels and the gastric mucosal generation of PGE2, superoxide dismutase (SOD) activity and malonyldialdehyde (MDA) concentration, as an index of lipid peroxidation were determined.

RESULTS: Ethanol and WRS caused gastric lesions accompanied by the significant fall in the GBF and SOD activity and the rise in the mucosal MDA content. Pretreatment with GSE (8-64 mg/kg i g) dose-dependently attenuated gastric lesions induced by 100% ethanol and WRS; the dose reducing these lesions by 50% (ID50) was 25 and 36 mg/kg, respectively, and this protective effect was similar to that obtained with methyl PGE2 analog (5 microg/kg i g). GSE significantly raised the GBF, mucosal generation of PGE2, SOD activity and plasma gastrin levels while attenuating MDA content. Inhibition of PGE2 generation with indomethacin or rofecoxib and suppression of NO synthase by L-NNA or capsaicin denervation reversed the GSE-induced protection and the accompanying hyperemia.

Co-treatment of exogenous calcitonine gene-related peptide (CGRP) with GSE restored the protection and accompanying hyperemic effects of GSE in rats with capsaicin denervation.

CONCLUSION: GSE exerts a potent gastroprotective activity against ethanol and WRS-induced gastric lesions via an increase in endogenous PG generation, suppression of lipid peroxidation and hyperemia possibly mediated by NO and CGRP released from sensory nerves.
--------------------------------------

J Altern Complement Med. 2005 Apr;11(2):369-71.Click here to read Links

The effectiveness of grapefruit (Citrus paradisi) seeds in treating urinary tract infections.

Oyelami OA, Agbakwuru EA, Adeyemi LA, Adedeji GB.

Department of Paediatrics and Child Health, Obafemi Awolowo University, Ile Ife, Osun State, Nigeria. [email protected]

Three middle-aged males and one female were diagnosed as having urinary tract infections (UTIs) between 2001 and 2003 in the Wesley Guild Hospital, Ilesa, a unit of Obafemi Awolowo University Teaching Hospitals Complex, Ile Ife, Osun State, Nigeria. Of the 4 patients, only the female was asymptomatic. The 3 males had Pseudomonas aeruginosa, Klebsiella species, and Staphylococcus aureus, respectively, in their urine samples, while the female had Escherichia coli.

All 4 patients were treated with grapefruit seeds (Citrus paradisi) orally for 2 weeks and they all responded satisfactorily to the t

However, the initial profuse growth of Pseudomonas isolate in the patient that was resistant to gentamicin, tarivid, and augmentin later subsided to mild growth with reversal of the antibiotic resistance pattern after 2 weeks' treatment with grapefruit seeds. These preliminary data thus suggest an antibacterial characteristic of dried or fresh grapefruit seeds (C. paradisi) when taken at a dosage of 5 to 6 seeds every 8 hours, that is comparable to that of proven antibacterial drugs.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

Posts: 4157 | From Western Massachusetts | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
METALLlC BLUE
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Physiol Pharmacol. 2004 Dec;55(4):811-21.Click here to read

Extract of grapefruit-seed reduces acute pancreatitis induced by ischemia/reperfusion in rats: possible implication of tissue antioxidants.

Dembinski A, Warzecha Z, Konturek SJ, Ceranowicz P, Dembinski M, Pawlik WW, Kusnierz-Cabala B, Naskalski JW.

Department of Physiology, Jagiellonian University Medical School, 16 Grzegrzecka Street, 31-531 Cracow, Poland. [email protected]

Grapefruit seed extract (GSE) has been shown to exert antibacterial, antifungal and antioxidant activity possibly due to the presence of naringenin, the flavonoid with cytoprotective action on the gastric mucosa. No study so far has been undertaken to determine whether this GSE is also capable of preventing acute pancreatic damage induced by ischemia/reperfusion (I/R), which is known to result from reduction of anti-oxidative capability of pancreatic tissue, and whether its possible preventive effect involves an antioxidative action of this biocomponent.

In this study carried out on rats with acute hemorrhagic pancreatitis induced by 30 min partial pancreatic ischemia followed by 6 h of reperfusion, the GSE or vehicle (vegetable glycerin) was applied intragastrically in gradually increasing amounts (50-500 microl) 30 min before I/R. Pretreatment with GSE decreased the extent of pancreatitis with maximal protective effect of GSE at the dose 250 microl.

GSE reduced the pancreatitis-evoked increase in serum lipase and poly-C specific ribonuclease activity, and attenuated the marked fall in pancreatic blood flow and pancreatic DNA synthesis. GSE administered alone increased significantly pancreatic tissue content of lipid peroxidation products, malondialdehyde and 4-hydroxyalkens, and when administered before I/R, GSE reduced the pancreatitis-induced lipid peroxidation.

We conclude that GSE exerts protective activity against I/R-induced pancreatitis probably due to the activation of antioxidative mechanisms in the pancreas and the improvement of pancreatic blood flow.

----------------------------------

1: J Altern Complement Med. 2002 Jun;8(3):333-40.Click here to read Links

Erratum in: J Altern Complement Med 2002 Aug;8(4):521. Reagor Lana [corrected to Reagor Lee].

The effectiveness of processed grapefruit-seed extract as an antibacterial agent: II. Mechanism of action and in vitro toxicity. Heggers JP, Cottingham J, Gusman J, Reagor L, McCoy L, Carino E, Cox R, Zhao JG.

Department of Surgery (Plastic), School of Medicine, University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston, USA. [email protected]

OBJECTIVES: Recent testimonials report grapefruit-seed extract, or GSE (Citricidal) to be effective against more than 800 bacterial and viral strains, 100 strains of fungus, and a large number of single and multicelled parasites. This study investigated GSE for antibacterial activity at varying time intervals and concentration levels and tissue toxicity at varying concentrations in an effort to determine if a concentration existed that was both microbicidal and nontoxic and in what period of time. DESIGN: Gram-negative and gram-positive isolates were introduced into graduated dilutions of GSE (twofold concentrations ranging from 1:1, through 1:512) for determination of bacterial activity. In vitro assays with human skin fibroblast cells were also performed at the same dilutions to determine toxicity. RESULTS: These tests indicated that from the 1:1 through the 1:128 concentrations, GSE remained toxic as well as bactericidal. However, test results indicated that at the 1:512 dilution, GSE remained bactericidal, but completely nontoxic.CONCLUSIONS: The initial data shows GSE to have antimicrobial properties against a wide range of gram-negative and gram-positive organisms at dilutions found to be safe.

With the aid of scanning transmission electron microscopy (STEM), the mechanism of GSE's antibacterial activity was revealed. It was evident that GSE disrupts the bacterial membrane and liberates the cytoplasmic contents within 15 minutes after contact even at more dilute concentrations.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

Posts: 4157 | From Western Massachusetts | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
METALLlC BLUE
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Now, I've also received studies that state that Grapefruit Seed Extracts by most "manufacturers" are tainted with the synthetic preservative benzethonium chloride (BTC). Apparently some researchers say, this is responsible for the antibacterial effects, not the grapefruit seed itself.

Here are some studies on that:

J Agric Food Chem. 2001 Jul;49(7):3316-20.

Identification of benzethonium chloride in commercial grapefruit seed extracts. Takeoka G, Dao L, Wong RY, Lundin R, Mahoney N.

Western Regional Research Center, Agricultural Research Service, U.S. Department of Agriculture, 800 Buchanan Street, Albany, California 94710, USA. [email protected]

Commercial grapefruit seed extracts (GSE) were extracted with chloroform. The solvent was evaporated, and the resulting solid was subsequently analyzed by high-performance liquid chromatography, electrospray ionization mass spectrometry, nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR) spectroscopy, and elemental analysis (by proton-induced X-ray emission [PIXE] analysis). The main constituent was identified as benzethonium chloride, a synthetic antimicrobial agent commonly used in cosmetics and other topical applications. This compound comprised 8.03% (n = 2) of the liquid GSE sample. Higher amounts of benzethonium chloride were found in powder GSE samples.

---------------------

Eur J Clin Pharmacol. 2007 Jun;63(6):565-70. Epub 2007 Mar 20.Click here to read Links
Adverse effects by artificial grapefruit seed extract products in patients on warfarin therapy.

Brandin H, Myrberg O, Rundlf T, Arvidsson AK, Brenning G.

Laboratory Department, Medical Products Agency, Box 26, SE, 751 03, Uppsala, Sweden. [email protected]

OBJECTIVE: Grapefruit seed extract (GSE) is promoted as a natural product with antibacterial and antiviral properties. The aim of this study was to investigate the composition of some commercially available GSE products and evaluate their effect in vitro on two cytochrome P450 enzymes, CYP2C9 and CYP3A4.

METHODS: A couple on lifelong treatment with warfarin and continuous regular follow-ups took some drops of a GSE product for 3 days. The female patient experienced a minor subcutaneous haematoma 3 days later, and her international normalised ratio (INR) value was 7.9. This was reported to the Swedish Medical Products Agency (MPA) as a spontaneous post-marketing report concerning adverse drug reactions/interactions. The composition of the GSE products was determined by proton and carbon-13 nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy (NMR).

The inhibitory effect of the GSE products on the cytochrome P450 enzymes was tested in an in vitro baculosome assay.

RESULTS: The NMR analysis showed that all three investigated GSE products contained the synthetic preservative benzethonium chloride (BTC) in addition to glycerol and water. No authentic GSE extract was found in any of the three GSE products analysed. Furthermore, BTC was found to be a potent inhibitor of CYP3A4 and CYP2C9 activity in vitro.

CONCLUSION: Our results suggest that BTC in the GSE products is responsible for the increase in the INR value in a patient on warfarin treatment.
--------------------------------

1: Shokuhin Eiseigaku Zasshi. 2008 Feb;49(1):56-62.Click here to read Links

[Survey of synthetic disinfectants in grapefruit seed extract and its compounded products]

[Article in Japanese]

Sugimoto N, Tada A, Kuroyanagi M, Yoneda Y, Yun YS, Kunugi A, Sato K, Yamazaki T, Tanamoto K.

National Institute of Health Sciences, Tokyo, Japan.

Grapefruit seed extract (GSE), derived from the seeds of grapefruit (Citrus paradisi MCAF.), is listed as a natural food additive in Japan. Products containing GSE are used as disinfectants made from only natural sources, especially after Japanese researchers found that GSE prevents the growth of norovirus. On the other hand, recent overseas studies indicated that synthetic disinfectants, such as benzalkonium and benzethonium chlorides, were present in some commercial GSE products. To confirm the quality of commercial GSE products available in Japanese markets, we carried out comprehensive research to identify the major constituents of commercial GSE products which are used as food additives (13 products from 6 manufacturers), dietary supplements (5 products from 4 manufacturers), cosmetic materials (16 products from 10 manufacturers) and disinfectant or deodorant sprays (7 products from 7 manufacturers). By means of NMR and LC/MS analysis, synthetic disinfectants such as benzethonium or benzalkonium salts were detected in most of the commercial GSE products.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

Posts: 4157 | From Western Massachusetts | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
METALLlC BLUE
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Additional information on the synthetic compound added:

Submitted to: Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry

Publication Type: Peer Reviewed Journal
Publication Acceptance Date: August 1, 2005

Publication Date: August 12, 2005 Citation: Takeoka, G.R., Dao, L.T., Wong, R.Y., Harden, L.A. 2005. Identification of Benzalkonium Chloride in Commercial Grapefruit Seed Extracts. Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry. 53:7630-7636.

Interpretive Summary: Grapefruit seed extract (GSE) is promoted as a natural product that has reported antibacterial and antiviral properties. It is reported to be safe and effective to use internally and externally for a wide variety of conditions such as acne, allergies, athletes foot, body odor, candida, colds, cold sores, gastrointestinal infections, gingivitis, impetigo, parasitic infection, sinusitis, sore throat and thrush. There is recent evidence that some commercial GSE samples are adulterated with synthetic preservatives and that these additives are solely responsible for the antimicrobial activity. Preservatives such as methyl 4-hydroxybezoate (methyl paraben), 2,4,4-trichloro-2-hydroxydiphenyl ether (triclosan) and benzethonium chloride have been identified in commercial GSE samples.

In this study we identified a new synthetic adulterant, benzalkonium chloride, in commercial GSE samples. This ingredient is a synthetic antimicrobial agent that is widely used in cleaning and disinfection agents. The presence of benzalkonium chloride in a commercial product designated for internal and external use by humans is troubling in light of its toxicity and allergenicity.

Technical Abstract: Commercial grapefruit seed extracts (GSE) were extracted with chloroform. The solvent was evaporated, and the resulting solid was subsequently analyzed by high performance liquid chromatography, electrospray ionization mass spectrometry (ESI/MS) and tandem mass spectrometry (ESI/MS/MS), and elemental analysis (by proton induced X-ray emission [PIXE] analysis). Three major constituents were observed by HPLC and were identified as benzyldimethyldodecylammonium chloride, benzyldimethyltetradecylammonium chloride, and benzyldimethylhexadecylammonium chloride. This mixture of homologues is commonly known as benzalkonium chloride, a widely used synthetic antimicrobial ingredient used in cleaning and disinfection agents.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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maureen2174
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thank you so much for posting all of this - very good info. i have been taking GSE recently.
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METALLlC BLUE
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Definition from Wikipedia.Com: Benzethonium chloride is a synthetic quaternary ammonium, surfactant, antiseptic, and anti-infective compound used as a topical antimicrobial agent in cosmetics and personal care products like anti-itch ointments and antibacterial moist towelettes and wipes. Benzothonium chloride is also used is the food industry as a disinfectant and preservative. [1].

It has the appearance of an odorless white crystalline hygroscopic powder and has a melting point of 162-164 C. The compound is moderately soluble in water and is toxic orally because it may cause failure in neuromuscular transmission as a result of pathological disturbance at the myoneural junction.[2]

Reference [2]: Bactericidal cationic quaternary ammonium surfactant used as a topical anti-infective agent. It is an ingredient in medicaments, deodorants, mouthwashes, etc., and is used to disinfect apparatus, etc., in the food processing and pharmaceutical industries, in surgery, and also as a preservative. The compound is toxic orally as a result of neuromuscular blockade.

Reference: http://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/summary/summary.cgi?cid=8478

Wikipedia

Benzalkonium chloride is an allergen[1][2][3][4][5][6][7] and several studies have cast doubt on its reputation for safety.[8][9]

Some products have been reformulated in light of this research, but it is still widely used in eyewashes, hand and face washes, mouthwashes, spermicidal creams, and in various other cleaners, sanitizers, and disinfectants. Manufacturers of OTC artificial tears and eye washes became concerned about chemical sensitivity from long-term daily use and have in some products substituted EDTA as a preservative.

Some have added "for sensitive eyes" to labeling. There has also been concern that long-term use of benzalkonium as a preservative in nose sprays may cause swelling of mucosa and lead to Rhinitis medicamentosa. Some manufacturers have put 3-day limits on safe use of such nose sprays.

The greatest biocidal activity is associated with the C12-C14 alkyl derivatives. The mechanism of bactericidal/microbicidal action is thought to be due to disruption of intermolecular interactions. This can cause dissociation of cellular membrane bilayers, which compromises cellular permeability controls and induces leakage of cellular contents. Other biomolecular complexes within the bacterial cell can also undergo dissociation.

Enzymes, which finely control a plethora of respiratory and metabolic cellular activities, are particularly susceptible to deactivation. Critical intermolecular interactions and tertiary structures in such highly specific biochemical systems can be readily disrupted by cationic surfactants.

Benzalkonium chloride solutions are rapidly acting biocidal agents with a moderately long duration of action. They are active against bacteria and some viruses, fungi, and protozoa. Bacterial spores are considered to be resistant. Solutions are bacteriostatic or bactericidal according to their concentration.

Gram-positive bacteria are generally more susceptible than Gram-negative. Activity is not greatly affected by pH, but increases substantially at higher temperatures and prolonged exposure times.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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METALLlC BLUE
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My goal was to research this subject thoroughly, not to bias or disuade anyone from it's use. I was not aware of the potential danger associated with the manufactured products of Grapefruit Seed Extract when I began studying it yesterday. I was simply following the bread-crumb trail after reading about the Brorson Study on Cystic Borrelia, and motile forms.

It is unfortunate to find out this product and it's benefits may in-fact be dangerous. I ask others here to continue adding to this thread objective evidence and or information from doctors or other researchers on the issue of GSE's saftey.

It would also be useful if any members here could in-fact confirm the findings of these studies regarding the presence of Benzalkonium chloride (BAC) and Benzethonium chloride (BZT)by having their own supplements tested by researchers or physicians who have access to doing so.

I researched both extensively after finding out that these substances were being found around the world in Grapefruit Seed Extract supplements. It appears that manufacturerers may intentionally be using sulfactants which are considered inappropriate for oral consumption.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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sixgoofykids
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Here's an article. http://holistic-personal-development.com/2007/04/22/grapefruit-seed-extract-debate/

When I researched this after my LLMD told me to take GSE, I decided that I'd believe the research that shows the natural compound is similar to the dangerous one. I do believe it is possible that the medical/pharmaceutical industry puts out this bad, inaccurate press in order to save their professions.

Can you imagine the implications if GSE worked as well as the initial studies you posted show?

To me it's no different than the IDSA's guidelines. I just don't think you can believe it.

Nutribiotic claims to check every batch for those compounds and others. That's the brand I use.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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METALLlC BLUE
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Yeah 6, I found it quite astounding to see such contrast and multiple studies indicating the dangers, and they all seemed to show up after 2001. I'm finding a lot of contrast, but what I find especially interesting is Brorson's studies. He's a competent researcher based on my findings so far.

I'm going to contact him to find out where he stands regarding GSE being toxic. It appears to me that it is possible the science is tainted with flagarantly inaccurate data claiming there are dangers, when in-fact there isn't. However, in light of this -- there is a lot of controversy.

I need to investigate further. I'm uncertain at this point about the facts.

Would it be useful for members here to run testing of their own or to discuss what they've come to understand regarding this controversy? Clearly we all have to make up our own minds in the face of controversy -- such as with Lyme being chronic, or GSE being safe.

Mike

[ 14. May 2008, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: METALLlC BLUE ]

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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sixgoofykids
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I'll look forward to hearing what you find out when you contact Brorson. In the meantime, I'm taking GSE. [Smile]

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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METALLlC BLUE
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6 Goofy, I managed to find Brorson's e-mail address as well as all the studies he's done in total. I separated all studies done specifically on Borrelia species.

Here is the e-mail I want to send him. Tell me if you think this is appropriate:

Dear Dr. Sverre-Henning Brorson,
My name is Michael, and I'm writing you from the United States regarding your research on two subjects. Borrelia Burgdorferi/Co-infections, as well as Grapefruit Seed Extract. From 2001 through the present, a number of studies have appeared indicating that benzethonium chloride, as well benzalkonium are present in Grapefruit Seed Extracts, which are apparently toxic to humans when consumed at an unspecified dosage. Are you aware of the controversy surrounding this subject, and what is your opinion given your experience using the Grapefruit Seed Extract for the 2007 Jun;35(3):206-8 research? Were there synthetic substances present in your extract samples that you're aware of?

Do you have any updated information from other researchers or that of your own work regarding Borrelia B, A, Garini and cystic forms, as well as GSE? In your opinion, given your knowledge thus far with the GSE samples you've worked with, would this potentially have any therapeutic application in other tick-borne infections, such as various co-infections like Bartonella like organisms, anti-malarial, or further antibacterial value.

What led you to take an interest in Borrelia or GSE?

Sincerely,
Michael Parent


1997: Brorson , Brorson SH. Transformation of Cystic Forms of Borrelia burgdorferi to Normal Mobile Spirochetes. Infection. 25: 240-246, 1997

1998: Brorson , Brorson SH. A rapid Method for Generating Cystic forms of Borrelia burgdorferi, and their Reversal to Mobile Spirochetes. APMIS. 106: 1131-1141, 1998

1998: Brorson , Brorson SH. In vitro conversion of Borrelia burgdorferi to cystic forms in spinal fluid, and transformation to mobile spirochetes by incubation in BSK-H medium. Infection. 26: 144-150, 1998

1999: Brorson , Brorson SH. An in vitro study of the susceptibility of mobile and cystic forms of Borrelia burgdorferi to metronidazole. APMIS. 107: 566-576, 1999

2002: Brorson , Brorson SH. An In vitro study of the susceptibility of mobile and cystic forms of Borrelia burgdorferi to hydroxychloroquine. Int Microbiol. 5: 25-31, 2002

2001: Brorson , Brorson SH. An in Vitro Study of the Susceptibility of Mobile and Cystic forms of Borrelia burgdorferi to Ranitidine Bismuth Citrate. Int Microbiol. 4: 209-215, 2001.

2004: Brorson , Brorson SH. An in vitro study of the susceptibility of mobile and cystic forms of Borrelia burgdorferi to tinidazole. Int Microbiol. In press, 2004.

2007: Grapefruit Seed Extract is a Powerful In Vitro Agent Against Motile and Cystic Forms of Borrelia burgdorferi Sensu Lato Infection. 2007 Jun;35(3):206-8. Brorson O, Brorson SH.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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Keebler
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-

Michael,

Thank you so very much for all your work here. I've been meaning to study this topic but just have not had the endurance to do so.

Thanks, also, for bolding key phrases and for tediously breaking up the text from the PubMed abstracts. I seriously believe that the people who put the abstracts together do not want anyone to read them due to the presentation of squished text.

I think you deserve the honorary research medal for the day.

Hey, if you communicate with the author and get time for one more question, in addition to your questions about other TBI beside Bb, I wonder if GSE would have effect on Chlamydia Pneumonia (Cpn) &/or its crytpic form.

I found nothing in a cross search on PubMed with: Grapefruit Seed Extract, Cpn. (I will however pour over the results from Google search.)

Thanks.

-

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randibear
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I would not put it past the pseudo-medical and medical profession to come out against GSE to save their collective hides. If something as simple as GSE could help cure lyme instead of taking millions of dollars of antibiotics, they would joint with the pharmaceutical companies to prove that GSE is not effective.

I would be very intereste in what he says also.

--------------------
do not look back when the only course is forward

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Looking
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Here's some more food for thought. The manufacturer of Citricidal says studies showing toxic chemicals in GSE are erroneous.

******
I've read rumours of Chemicals in Grapefruit Seed Extract?

Newsgroups and email groups have received postings to the effect that Grapefruit Seed Extract contains Triclosan, Benzelthonium Chloride, or Methyl Paraben.

The source of this type of report comes from both Germany and Japan, where Citricidal is not approved for human consumption. The reason for erroneous findings in these reports is Citricidal is very similar in molecular weight to both Benzelthonium Chloride and Triclosan , both of which are effective disinfectants, but are toxic to human and animal life.

In Germany their test (which is not well documented at all) for Benzelthonium Chloride, Triclosan, and M.Paraben came up positive (which is more correctly called a "false positive") and in Japan, the same is happening for Triclosan.

USDA found benzelthonium chloride in its 2001 test. Was this a simple error or a deliberate attempt to scare people away from Citricidal and Nutribiotic products?

Meanwhile, Citricidal has been tested for the presence of these toxins by independent labs, and has been proven clean. (Ex: Weston Gulf Coast Laboratories, Inc., University Park, IL, test completed in March of 1992. Tested for heavy metals, Cyanides, Pesticides and PCBs and Benzelkonium Chloride. Results: None Detected.)

In fact, the accusations about triclosan (used in many dish and hand soaps in the US) became so frequent a few years ago, that Citricidal began specifically testing each batch of Grapefruit Seed Extract for its absence, and providing a Certificate of Analysis to that effect.

The truth is, Citricidal is not only effective, it has been in use for decades and recommended by many high profile doctors and healthcare professionals. If these allegations had any validity, there certainly would be a history of complaints and judgements against the product, and it would have been removed from the market many years ago.

Triclosan has recently been compared to "Agent Orange" in toxicity. The EPA rates triclosan as "highly toxic". The US FDA made inspections of the Nutribiotic manufacturing facility back in the 1990's and found no chemical preservatives; and the formula is the same today.

Such rumours are false, and are not a threat to those armed with accurate information. The test reports from Germany and Japan and the USDA are certainly bothersome, but they have produced "false positives", not accurate profiles.

The vast body of evidence from many years of use by thousands of satisfied consumers, doctors, manufacturers, and veterinarians, speaks most loudly against such reports.
*********

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sixgoofykids
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Michael, great letter. I think you present the questions in a very intelligent manner.

I will look forward to hearing if his opinion matches that of Citricidal. Citricidal's explanation makes sense to me.

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Robin123
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I have a medical question, if anyone knows the answer. I tried a tiny amount of GSE recently, and it made my throat close. Is that an allergic reaction or a herx?
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Keebler
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-

Robin,

Did you use drops in water or take a capsule? I cannot take the drops in water is it is irritating to the tissue in mouth and on the way down.

I've been looking for a capsule that will wait until it's all the way down.

I do, however, sometimes use a few drops of GSE on my toothbrush to apply to my gums after a regular brush and floss before bed. It's still good to rinse mouth so teeth don't have it sitting on them.

-

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sixgoofykids
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Robin, was it dissolved in water? It's very acidic and can be harsh if not dissolved in water. I use about a quarter to half cup of water for just a few drops of GSE.

I'd have Benadryl on hand next time just in case it is an allergic reaction.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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brf
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I read the pros and cons of GSE and a few weeks ago decided to give it a try anyway.

It sure packs a punch for me! Increasing slowly and that horrible oppressive brain fog is slowly improving. The die offs can be pretty severe though.

I also found a difference in the brands I used. Still experimenting.

All The Best.

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sparkle7
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Thanks for the great info!

I bought a bottle of Yeast Cleanse from Solaray, yesterday. It has 240mg of GSE. I've been really wiped out today & I didn't know why. Maybe this is the reason... it's a herx.

I was going to get a prescription filled for flucanozole but I figured I'd try the Yeast Cleanse instead. It's seems to be working just as good if not better than the drug.

It has the following ingredients per 6 capsules:

Grapefruit Seed Extract 240 mg **

GP Garlic (Allium sativum) (bulb) Supplying 10,000 mcg/g (2400 mcg) Allicin Releasing Potential 240 mg **

Licorice Root (Glycyrrhiza glabra) 240 mg **

Vitamin C (from Grape Seed, Ascorbic Acid) 35 mg **

Calcium (as Calcium Caprylate) 162 mg **

Magnesium (as Magnesium Caprylate) 82 mg **

Zinc (as Zinc Caprylate) 7 mg **

Caprylic Acid 2.16 g **

Zinc (as Zinc Caprylate) 7 mg **

Pau D Arco (inner bark) 240 mg **

Tea Tree Oil 60 mg **

-----
I have used straight GSE in the past (prior to having Lyme). It's very harsh stuff & an irritant to mucous membranes. I'm not sure what LLMDs tell people in order to take it but it may be good to be careful with it.

I'm definitely going to look into it further! I just despise all the propaganda whenever there's a useful product that can cut into drug company profits.

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Robin123
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I put a couple drops in water. When I react like that, I generally don't do the substance again.
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METALLlC BLUE
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quote:


Michael,

Thank you so very much for all your work here. I've been meaning to study this topic but just have not had the endurance to do so.

Thanks, also, for bolding key phrases and for tediously breaking up the text from the PubMed abstracts. I seriously believe that the people who put the abstracts together do not want anyone to read them due to the presentation of squished text.

You're welcome.

quote:

I think you deserve the honorary research medal for the day.

Hey, if you communicate with the author and get time for one more question, in addition to your questions about other TBI beside Bb, I wonder if GSE would have effect on Chlamydia Pneumonia (Cpn) &/or its crytpic form.

You're welcome, and done on the CPN.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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METALLlC BLUE
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quote:

Michael, great letter. I think you present the questions in a very intelligent manner.

I will look forward to hearing if his opinion matches that of Citricidal. Citricidal's explanation makes sense to me

I've sent out the letter. I trust Dr. Brorson's research. He's remained very consistent and very clear. His research has been repeated by other researchers as time has passed based on my notes.

Additionally, if his own GSE was formulated in the lab directly, and no compounds of synthetic form were present -- then I'll trust his results by default.

If he tells me he checked the extract carefully for other synthetic substances, which he very possibly could have given his study was performed in 2007, then I'll also trust his judgment even if he didn't make the product himself.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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mrpotto
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Six goofy, any issues with taking GSE and levaquin or other abx? I guess not if your doing it.

I may give it a shot as another poster suggest it was working for her creepy crawlies.

Chris

[ 16. May 2008, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: mrpotto ]

--------------------
dx in Dec 2003
tested 2x positive for bart
Lightly Chelating
3 weeks off abx and 1 week on:

10 day course a month: Plaq/Ceftin/Rifampin/Biaxin with Tindamax on last two days

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cottonbrain
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wow, great post.

i do wonder:

The owner of citricidal claims that independent labs detected none of the dangerous chemicals in their products. But I don't think he expains the difference in the way that the independent labs measured, compared to the labs that found dangerous chemicals.

I'd like to know how the independent labs were able to get more accurate (?) results.

(maybe this is in the letter, above, sorry. i was unable to get thru the whole letter -- brainfog)

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sixgoofykids
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My LLMD has me taking the GSE with other abx. He and the PA both specifically check to be sure I'm still taking it at my phone consults. I've been on many different meds with it and they've never indicated that there would be an interaction.

I'm off the Levaquin now ... actually started back on a more complete Lyme protocol along with Mepron. And they still have me on the GSE.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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brf
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sixgoofykids,

How much GSE are you taking a day and what brand are you using?

Thanks

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sixgoofykids
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I have had to ramp up very slowly. I'm on Nutribiotic drops and currently take 8-9 drops twice daily. I hope to eventually get to 15 drops, but it has taken me a few months to get up to where I am now. That's why I like the drops, I can really control the dosage.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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gwenb
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I started taking GSE about 2 years ago - I count it as one of the strongest supplements I have taken for Lyme disease. I moved up to 10 drops a day much too quickly and was flat on my back for 3 days trying to ride out a herx - yikes - did I feel crappy!

That said, I believe it does kill the little critters.

Gwen

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CherylSue
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Did Mike every get a reply to his letter on GSE?
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Annxyz
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Gwenb ,
What brand do you use? Please share !
thanks ann

--------------------
ANNXYZ

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Keebler
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-

drops may be irritating for some. there are also capsules.

-

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METALLlC BLUE
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I did not receive a response. I suspect he didn't receive the note. I can tell you that the Nutribiotics GSE is strong stuff, and certainly does cause a herxheimer reaction.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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jamescase20
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I have read grapefruit oil is a natural efflux pump inhibitor, i also read that the seed has a poison in it, and as I have stated before, I think none other then poison will truely kill this invader.
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sparkle7
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It is suspicious that there are claims that GSE is tainted with chemicals used for extraction or as a preservative.

It may be valid but it seems that these chemical substances couldn't be responsable for all the benefits of the GSE, itself.

There could be various sources of GSE. Have all sources been tested? 6goofykids did some research & found a source that claims it is not contaminated.

It seems there is always concern where something that can't be patented is found to be effective.

Labs, scientists, professors can be paid off to show invalid results. It's human nature...

If I have a chance, I'll try to contact my source of GSE & find out some further info.

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METALLlC BLUE
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I'm still interested, keep the results coming. Who has had good results? I've talked with a number of LLMD's who recommend it.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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METALLlC BLUE
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An added note, I recently performed a basic experiment with my cat Chief.

Chief has been having difficulty with urinary tract infections, and as all cat owners know, this can be dangerous. The urine of the animal turns to ammonia, and if you've ever poured some to use it to clean or otherwise, it burns your eyes, and it becomes extremely difficult to breath. The impact and smell are profound.

Chief's litter box smelled terrifically like Ammonia, and so my roomate (awhile ago) called the Vet. Immediately they confirmed it was a urinary tract infection and prescribed Amoxicillin.

Well, my roomate did not use the antibiotic long enough. He gave it to Chief for three days, and then abandoned it, because he couldn't get Chief to eat it. (I later got Chief to eat it easily by mixing and crushing it into some meaty wet food.

At any rate, neither time the antibiotic was used, was the treatment long enough. First: 3 days, and the second time, only 7 days (Since that's all I had left).

The second treatment seemed to work.

A month later (2 days ago), Chief's litter box smelled potent. The ammonia has returned with vengeance.

I didn't have any antibiotics, and I figured Chief could handle a few days before I decide to make some calls and pick up antibiotics.

So I decided, given the studies done on the benefits of GSE, including research done on the "dangers, and the contamination" issues -- I chose to give Chief the GSE liquid extract. I figure, a number of LLMD's, who I respect and trust, have recommended it to me, and my girlfriend.

So I used the Nutribiotic brand, and I began at 3 drops. This is a children's dose. Chief doesn't have Lyme Disease or any other known health problems, given I've had him tested extensively.

The first day: 3 drops mixed with meaty wet food, and then 3 drops in the evening, same food. The ammonia smell was still present.

The second day: 3 drops again, mixed with meaty wet food, and 3 drops in the evening, same food. The ammonia smell was still present, though to a leser degree, but still strong enough.

The third day: 3 drops again, mixed with meaty wet food, and 3 drops in the evening, same food. The ammonia smell was now faint, and I checked his litter box, and sure enough, he had stopped peeing constantly.

The fourth day: 3 drops again, meaty food, and 3 drops again in the evening, same food. Now, there was no smell at all. The infection apparently was reduced significantly. Chief's energy seemed to increase. He was excited, almost manic -- wanting to play, run, and so forth.

The fifth day: Same protocol as previous days. Chief is now eatting constantly, appears healthy, and he's most certainly happy. He's purring constantly. He takes his normal naps, and then plays like he'd always done. He's back on schedule.

The 6th day: Same results. I will continue this experiment for another 8 days, for 14 in total. That's more than enough based on my experience.

This experiment, while subjective and merely clinical, demonstrates the possibility of antimicrobial activity.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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sparkle7
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That's very interesting! I have a male cat but I don't think he has any urinary problems.

I wonder if it would be a good idea to give him a couple of drops in his food just as a preventative measure every so often?

I think GSE is really great stuff. I wouldn't take it all of the time but it certainly does work when needed. I really doubt all of the studies that say it's the preservative - not the chemicals in the grapefruit seeds.

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METALLlC BLUE
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I do too, I don't buy the studies on the dangers, at least not for every GSE product. I also don't think the studies claiming Grapefruit Seed Extract has no antibacterial effects are true. I trust Brorson long before I'd trust those other studies.

I'll stick with Citricidal and Nutribiotics. I trust them. I just gave Chief his next dose. Once again, he's happy and being a playful loser like usual. He's using the bathroom normally, and his urine isn't a gigantic clump like before saturated with ammonia.

I don't know whether I'd give him any GSE if he's not sick. I also don't know what effect the GSE has on bowel flora. It's up to you.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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gwenb
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I've used GSE to good effect - it is one of the staples in my Lyme disease supplement/treatment protocol. I take 10 drops a day of Nutribiotic brand.

I found it to be EXTREMELY strong. Work up very slowly. I worked up too quickly and had a severe herx. Normally my herxes consist of severe headache, eye pain, neck pain, fatigue and sometimes nausea. With GSE I had all of the above x5 plus rapid pulse, severe nausea, sweats and chills, the runs and really really bad vertigo - I literally could not get up out of bed for 36 hours.

Gwen

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Hoosiers51
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Everyone here said GSE makes them Herx badly....but no one mentioned they had an eventual "lifting" of symptoms from it.

Anyone actually felt better on this? (Even if you did have to Herx to get there)?

To me there is just no indication I should take it if it's all Herxing and no recovery, because maybe it really does have some sort of toxic effect.

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UnexpectedIlls
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GSE is in my Glutathione (GSH) .. I am not sure why??

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"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

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gwenb
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I've improved dramatically from herbs and supplements (please see previous posts). I started feeling better after my first herx lifted and continued to feel better as time progressed.

I continue to take it.

Gwen

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Keebler
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-

GSE is in Glutathione (GSH) -


my guess is that it helps as a natural preservative.


-

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CraigC
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I have toyed with the idea of getting some, but I just can't seem to get around the fact that the chemicals used to preserve the stuff, might actually be doing more harm than good to my body. I know some have said that certain brands don't contain these chemicals, but on sites that I've read, most companies aren't specific.

I have read many studies that show it is the preservatives used, that give GSE its abx characteristics. But then again, I've read just as many that say GSE has abx qualities on its own.

Does anyone truly know anything? lol

--------------------
Craig

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METALLlC BLUE
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I trust the Brorson study. He's an extremely competent man. Both him and his wife are excellent researchers, and had made huge strides that have furthered our understanding of Lyme Disease, it's alternate forms, and antibiotics that work on those alternate forms.

He discovered that Flagyl, Tindizole worked on Cysts, he also discovered that Grapefruit Seed Extract had a potent effect on Lyme Disease using an extract "He" made in his own lab. Saftey was confirmed.

I believe him, far before I'd believe some studies trying to bring down some companies, especially Citricidal, whom by the way, have been subjected to surprise investigations countless times because of these studies, and just like Igenex, they keep coming up with a clean bill of health. The reason is simple. Their products do what they say they do.

It's a money issue, the studies are tainted in my opinion. I believe Brorson, and I believe the patient reports.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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djf2005
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hey all, especially mike, thanks for all the hard work here...

i am due to start GSE as soon as i can tolerate the full dose of rifampin i am trying to currently take.

anyway, what is everyone's dose of GSE currently?

sixgoofy, since DR H suggest you and i both take it, what dose are you on?

thanks all. again thanks mike very much

cheers

derek

--------------------
"Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."

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UnexpectedIlls
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I also see DR H and it was never suggested to me to do GSE.... ????

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"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

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Pauline
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www.nutriteam.com/faq.htm

This gives a good explanation of the controversy regarding chemicals in GSE for Nutribiotic.

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METALLlC BLUE
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Shandy you just started treatment, he's not going to go right to the GSE.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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UnexpectedIlls
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Oh ok.. so this is something you do later in tx??

--------------------
"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

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djf2005
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No, its something you do when your body can handle it.

He only suggested i take it because i have a million questions every time i see him, and i asked him what to take for virals, etc. He suggested GSE, but i have yet to add it as well as olive leaf extract.

Like MB said, he wont throw it on you until you can handle it, or, like me, until you ask for it.


You will see over time, that Dr H. will attempt to treat everything he can (that you can tolerate) at once in order to eradicate any opportunistic infections you might have.

good luck

derek [Big Grin] [bonk]

--------------------
"Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."

[email protected]

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sparkle7
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Hoosiers - I herxed from using it. I think it's all part of the process towards wellness... It's not like you herx once & you're all better.

I'm not on abx, so I just proceed one day at a time. As long as I feel I'm going in the right direction - it's all good.

I'm doing some other things so I don't feel I need the GSE right now. I think someone suggested to take it for a week or a few days every month, as needed.

That seems like a good plan to me.

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radfaraf
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I have now doubt that GSE has antibiotic properties. A very easy test is to put it on pimples or scrapes, they go away faster with GSE.
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2roads
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up to those recently asking-
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