LymeNet Home LymeNet Home Page LymeNet Flash Discussion LymeNet Support Group Database LymeNet Literature Library LymeNet Legal Resources LymeNet Medical & Scientific Abstract Database LymeNet Newsletter Home Page LymeNet Recommended Books LymeNet Tick Pictures Search The LymeNet Site LymeNet Links LymeNet Frequently Asked Questions About The Lyme Disease Network LymeNet Menu

LymeNet on Facebook

LymeNet on Twitter




The Lyme Disease Network receives a commission from Amazon.com for each purchase originating from this site.

When purchasing from Amazon.com, please
click here first.

Thank you.

LymeNet Flash Discussion
Dedicated to the Bachmann Family

LymeNet needs your help:
LymeNet 2020 fund drive


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations.

LymeNet Flash Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Is HH capsules enough to go with rifampin

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: Is HH capsules enough to go with rifampin
hiker53
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 6046

Icon 1 posted      Profile for hiker53     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Are HH capsules enough to go with rifampin to keep it from becoming resistant to bart or do I need an antibiotic? Hiker53

--------------------
Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

Posts: 7552 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lymetoo
Moderator
Member # 743

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Lymetoo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
What's HH?

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

Posts: 95723 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Keebler     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
-

I have taken HH with coptis (another herb) or allicin and like how well I feel with it added. BTW, it helps inner ear stuff. I don't know much more about it, though.

-

HH capsules - Houttuynia cordata extract


www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

PubMed Search:

Houttuynia - 63 abstracts

Houttuynia cordata - 53 abstracts

-

http://tinyurl.com/4bnvzy (through www.senhealth.com )


-

[ 27. May 2008, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
LymeMECFSMCS
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 13573

Icon 1 posted      Profile for LymeMECFSMCS   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
In my experience, Houttuynia and Rifampin have a similar action, physically. You might want to add one of the lyme herbs as well, to make it more broad spectrum (andrographis, cat's claw, etc.). I think the Houttuynia and Rifampin work synergistically though.
Posts: 929 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Clarissa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4715

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Clarissa     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
My LLMD told me that Cumanda would count as another abx with Rifampin but I never believed it so I kept up with the Zithro.

--------------------
Clarissa

Because I knew you:
I have been changed for good.

 -

Posts: 1625 | From Florida | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Alv
Unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I am curious too...If I can add that to Zithro Levaquin and Rifampin ?

I have already ordered HHCapsules!

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
bernieb4
Member
Member # 14654

Icon 1 posted      Profile for bernieb4     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
alv,
i tried to send this in a message, but your mail box is full:

how have you been doing on that rifampin/levaquin/zith combo?

i'm fighting bartonella and maybe still lyme too with rifampin 600mg + 400mg minocycline daily. i haven't noticed it helping yet though. it's been 3 weeks on this combo. i've done two months cipro high dosage with no improvement, so i'm curious about trying levaquin. but i'm also quite weary as i've heard of too many tendon ruptures.

Posts: 98 | From WI | Registered: Feb 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Clarissa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4715

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Clarissa     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Alv,

I believe you can add the HH to your abx regimen. My LLMD ws going to put me on the HH capsules along with Rifampin and Zithro at one point but I was herxing so much that I blew it off.

I don't know about the Levaquin, though...

It may be overkill, although I know you need all the ammunition you can get!!

Sorry, that's the most info I can give you on it.

Hugs,

--------------------
Clarissa

Because I knew you:
I have been changed for good.

 -

Posts: 1625 | From Florida | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Clarissa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4715

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Clarissa     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Just to add to Keebler's helpful description of HH, goto:

http://www.ibiblio.org/pfaf/cgi-bin/arr_html?Houttuynia+cordata

Scroll down a bit to see Medicinal Uses.

Best,

--------------------
Clarissa

Because I knew you:
I have been changed for good.

 -

Posts: 1625 | From Florida | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
CherylSue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13077

Icon 1 posted      Profile for CherylSue     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Is HH only available through a health practioner?

CherylSue

Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Clarissa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4715

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Clarissa     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think you can order just by calling the phone number I listed above.

Call and try. My Mother ordered her artemisae from the same place and no RX was needed.

--------------------
Clarissa

Because I knew you:
I have been changed for good.

 -

Posts: 1625 | From Florida | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
cottonbrain
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13769

Icon 1 posted      Profile for cottonbrain     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I am curious as to its ability to help with inner ear problems.

I have pain inside one ear, from either zith or mino as far as i can tell -- had to go off them both temporarily.

Would HH help with this?

Posts: 1172 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Alv
Unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Wow thanks CLARISA !

I ordered them and you do not need a persctiption.

Beilive it or not I am on this dosage.I am dealing well on levaquin -not herxing crazy.Exept I was emotional and cried the first day I took it ( restarted) and I flared for a 5 hrs -slept right away.Than I added the rest.Was on and off pain -but nothing like before -


You all know that I have been treating bart for more than a year.Today I felt pretty normal.

I WANT MY LIFE BACK -and not bart back!

[ 30. May 2008, 01:08 AM: Message edited by: Alv ]

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Keebler     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
-

Cottonbrain,

if you are having ear trouble while in mino, I urge you to consider finding an alternate medicine. Mino can cause some pretty harsh vestibular problem for some people. Some reasearchers have it on the ototoxic list. Some don't.

Zithromax also can cause certain individuals ear trouble.

(for mino / zith ) Some patients seem to do okay, but others have much trouble with inner/middle ear issues they have to stop it.

B6 may help with mino . - see the article at the thread on Tinnitus.

I have taken HH and found it to be very supportive. Allicin, though, clears up my ears better than anything.

This link has some specific information on Minocin that may help.

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=065801

Topic: TINNITUS: Ringing Between The Ears; Vestibular, Balance, Hearing with compiled links
-

Also, a timed-release bath of minocycline has recently been recalled. There is a thread about that. A search with "recall" within the past 3 weeks should bring that up.

-

Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Keebler     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
-

Curcumin (from Turmeric) is also a very good supplement to consider to reduce inflammation, etc. It's my latest research love interest.

PubMed has 1168 abstracts on Turmeric and 2340 abstracts on Curcumin: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

------------------------------------------------

This is about INJECTION. A whole plant extract is what most capsules contain.

http://tinyurl.com/58hdvq

J Ethnopharmacol. 2006 Mar 8;104(1-2):245-9. Epub 2005 Oct 5.

Anti-inflammatory effect of Houttuynia cordata injection. .

Lu HM, Liang YZ, Yi LZ, Wu XJ.

Research Center for Modernization of Chinese Herbal Medicine, College of Chemistry and Chemical Engineering, Central South University, Changsha 410083, PR China.

Houttuynia cordata (Saururaceae) injection (HCI) is a traditional Chinese medicine used in China. It was chosen as one of eight types of traditional Chinese medicine that play a unique role in severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) owing to the effect of curbing inflammation.

In order to validate this plausible anti-inflammatory property, the chemical composition of HCI has been analysed by GC/MS, 22 components were identified, and the inflammation induced by carrageenan in the rat pleurisy model and by xylene in the mice ear edema model was adopted to study the anti-inflammatory activity of HCI.

Injection of carrageenan into the pleural cavity elicited an acute inflammatory response characterized by protein rich fluid accumulation and leukocyte infiltration in the pleural cavity.

The peak inflammatory response was obtained at 24 h when the fluid volume, protein concentration, C-reactive protein and cell infiltration were maximums.

The results showed that these parameters were attenuated by HCI at any dose and touched bottom at dose of 0.54 ml/100 g, although less strong than dexamethasone.

This drug was also effective in inhibiting xylene induced ear edema, and the percentage of inhibition came to 50% at dose of 80 microl/20 g. The results clearly indicate that HCI have anti-inflammatory activity.


-

Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
cottonbrain
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13769

Icon 1 posted      Profile for cottonbrain     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
hey keeb,
thanks so much for the info and links. I checked them out but will re-do tomorrow when my brain is working better.

I'm a bit ticked off (hyuk hyuk) that my LLMD doesnt seem aware of the mino risks.

Not saying for sure that mino is my problem, but it sure sounds like it could be.

I think I'll order some curcumin, as hyperacusis is another issue i've always had, and it has gotten worse lately.

keep us posted on what else you find out, if you please. thx!

and if anybody else has tried curcumin or knows of other effective sups for hyperacusis, holler.
well, maybe on another thread ...sorry to have hijacked this one...many apologies

Posts: 1172 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Keebler     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
-

sorry to sidetrack so much but - in reply to Cottonbrain & others who may wonder - this might help explain why doctors don't have one general list to check for ear stuff.

Researchers seem to differ on mino.

It is confusing that a drug can be on one ototoxic or vestibulur toxic list but not on another. I usually check four lists/books and try to get the most current ones.

The way ototoxic reactions are reported is not like you'd think.

If a patient has a problem and reports it it might be recorded in a record somewhere as either vertigo, dizziness, tinnitus, hyperacusis, or hearing loss.

Only if ear hair cells are destroyed might the drug be listed as ototoxic but some researchers connect any troublesome audiological symptoms as degrees of ototoxicity - some reversible, some not.

The degree or length of time these continue are not recorded. That would help. Also, blood levels are not usually helpful in reporting of ear reactions.

I also have to wonder if some patients are, for some reason, more affected than others. And, herx can be part of it.

The B6 / mino article ( http://tinyurl.com/3xpvck ) is from Germany. It might not have appeared in American medical journals.

Also, mino is being tested in some studies to prevent hearing loss with the inner ear injections of a very ototoxic drug, gentamicin, in a study with mice. So, that is very curious. But they add yet a third substance and that may matter. PubMed, in general, does not have a lot of abstracts with ototoxic drugs that appear on lists elsewhere.

======================

http://tinyurl.com/5jqhwy - scroll down past ads

excerpt:

Ms. Suss points out that the Physicians Desk Reference (PDR) did not list ototoxic drugs until the 1989 and later editions.

She refers to a separate document, Drug Interactions and Side Effects Index, which is keyed to the PDR.

She then points out that the Index is incomplete: several problem drugs are not listed there.

======================

I'm not a researcher or an expert, just trying to make sense of what I've read. Hope it's not overwhelming. Wish it were clearer. And I wish I could be more concise.

The bottom line that one my otologists told me to remember is that any drug that trigger tinnitus, vertigo or hyperacusis can be ototoxic for ME. He said to stop immediately so the chance to reverse that is better. (Still, many lyme patients report certain abx triggering tinnitus that clears once the lyme clears.)

Getting back to the question of the thread: From what I've experienced, houttuynia extract seemed to help settle down inflammation - my eyes are less sensitive to light and my ears/brain seem less sensitive, too. I've always coupled it with an antimicrobial agent, though.

-

Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | LymeNet home page | Privacy Statement

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:

The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey
907 Pebble Creek Court, Pennington, NJ 08534 USA


| Flash Discussion | Support Groups | On-Line Library
Legal Resources | Medical Abstracts | Newsletter | Books
Pictures | Site Search | Links | Help/Questions
About LymeNet | Contact Us

© 1993-2020 The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.
Use of the LymeNet Site is subject to Terms and Conditions.