CD57
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posted
hello, I am adding these slowly to my protocol. Am up to 4/day. I am feeling worse than usual. Could these be responsible?
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randibear
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posted
what are hh capsules?
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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CD57
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posted
Zhang's HH capsules, herbal against bartonella.
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Clarissa
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posted
Absolutely possible, C. My friend, who sees Dr. S is on the HH protocol. He had her starting on 3 a day, making her way up to 15. (very agressive IMHO)
She said she felt worse than she had in her life!! And she's done Dr. D in MA's Biaxin & Plaquenil and that's no cake-walk.
I'm sorry. Good news: You're still killing!!
Hang in there...you've had such a battle with this Bart/BLO/Satan whatever you want to call it organisim.
Oh, so my friend told Dr. S her experience on the HH and he cut her back to 2 a day so it's nothing to be BOLD about. Ramp up slowly and don't go any higher than your LLMD recommends because I TRUST him.
I was wondering about the reaction you are getting, although you are not specific.
In my own experience, HH (at one cap, 3 x day) was a breeze compared to most of the other stuff I've taken (and I can't tolerate mino at all - but others can. If you have any vertigo, be sure to take NAC and B-6 to offset that from the mino).
EFA's ? I sometimes underestimate the effect of good oils to help neurological symptoms.
I know you've been at this a while but HH is one the very best things I've ever taken so I do hope you find the dose that works best for you.
-
[ 19. July 2008, 07:11 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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Alv
Unregistered
posted
WHen I stopped Levaquin I jumped my HH dosage from 10 to 15.
It has been 3 weeks and I am at 15HH capsules.
Bart still there.Added Banderol 90 drops today .
By the way My body is feed up of Cats claw and does not want anymore , Cumanda or Samento .But Loves Banderol. What a rollockoster.
On top of that 600 mg azithr , 200mg minocycline , 600mg Rifampin and nystatin.Pulsing flagyl .
Yes I have killed A LOT of bart or BLO( as I do n ot react on bartonella henselae frequencies anymore when last year was oof the chart on my RIFE eksperience -so is BLO) but B/c ehrlichia ( still there) and mucoplasma Fermentas ( still there) sure bart will hang as I feel that is the last one to go.
BABESIA is not showing up now anymore ( thanks to herbs) and that was confirmed by my LLMD pathogen BABESIA ( me beeing not sever fatigue like before) and my other doctor muscle tested MEPRON and artemisin and said .NOPE you are done .You do not want any one of them anymore.
So still fighting the rest that is still hanging ...
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Keebler
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-
Wow ! we have so much to learn about individual differences.
Alv - It's good to know that you have a doctor who is willing to try new approaches and work with different doses - and one who is expert at figuring what your body needs at various turns along the way.
--
Oh, Alv, your mailbox is full. Thanks for your reply. I understand it better, now, and how you and your doctor came to decide on this.
posted
WE are all diferent and have diferent pathogens.
Based on my eksperince as we peel off the onion the pathogens change their turns.I have had all of them coming back and forth and I adjust the dosages and the medications based on what my body wants.
I have seen improvement only on thid way .We do not fit in one BOX.
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CD57
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posted
Alv--what are your bart symptoms?
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Alv
Unregistered
posted
Right now , my arms shoulders still have pain and still herxing ,mostly in the morning when I wake up .Foot pain still there but they do not have burning sensation anymore .Bunion sometimes hurt.Shin pain is less.HIp pain comes and goes.
Some patches on and off burning in the skull , ( my gallblader is HERXING -I recall last year was crazy today that I added banderol started again ).
Sometimes my left knee gives me some symtoms when I walk ( had rupted due to levaquin usage while stayed sitting on it watching TV)some mild joint pain and neck pain.
It is more that I have damages from lyme and coinfections not treated for 20 years .Symtomatics since 15 years ago.
I am functioning now while from dead sentence last year , I am fully funtioning now ( not cured or 100% but functioning ) .Not back to work as I am not ready for it.But improved better than ever.
I can not say I am cured as I am far from cured but I am far from death comparing to last year .
HERXED LIKE hell the entire year,by the way I had detoxed 2 years prior to find that I had lyme and ALL Co-infections .So I was ready to deal with high dosages of ANYTHING .
CD 57 YOU TELL ME WHAT YOU FEEL AND I can help.
If my memory serves me well you relapsed after finishing the rifampin.
I have used tones of things.I FIND HERBS VERY helpful.By the way , what is left from BART is the BLO I think in me.
I have some strange blue purple patterns on my skin.They are less thogu comparing to before .BUt still there.
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CD57
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posted
My symptoms are: depression, occasional bouts of suicidal anxiety, intermittent sore feet/shins, hand spasms, inability to concentrate/ADD type feeling, restlessness/agitation, surrealism (like I'm not really here) weird buzzing sorts of sensations that come and go. I have treated bart/BLO aggressively but have not focused too much on Lyme--did some Zith and now Bicillin shots--but not targeting all forms of Lyme. I wonder if that may be part of the problem.
What do you think Alv?
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Alv
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posted
Every thing YOU included is BART!
Lyme gets agrevated B/c of that .I have neurolyme band 30+++ and the rest IGENEX positive.GARINI and BURGDOFERI.
The only thing that I used was DOXY 400mg ( I always took the entire dosage at the same time) never spleat the pills.I want to reach the maximum level .Also I have used ANROGRAPHIS 6 pills and up to 10 pills a day .
But when I was on 10 HH capsules , LEVAQUIN 500mg , AZITR 600mg , ANDROGRAPHIS 6 capsules,Rifampin 600mg , Nystatin and pulsing flagyl or not....that month I FELT better than ever.
I went out at my friends , driving was way betetr than ever.TWITCHES stoped even more.NO MAGNESIUM ( from the previous trial I relapsed) and felt better than ever.
NOw that I switched to MINOCYCLINE 200mg , I am going to a higher level of wellness.But I switched from levaquin to 15 HH capsules ( i see that works best FOR ME ) , rifapmin 600 mg , BANDEROL 90 drops in one time empty stomak, azithromax 600 mg .....
I THINK this are mostly BART /BLO related and lyme /Neuro is there for sure...but without BART is so diferent.
When I started killing bart and was on only 400mg doxy and just rifapmin -I thought I would end up on psyc...yard.HITTING THE WALL screaming , locking myself in the room as I felt crazy than ever , avoided people .Shaking and wanted to KILL MYSELF.
THE MORE THAT I Continue chasing this bart BLO thing the better I feel.NEVER DID IV .
I stil have it..and I know I stel have to pil off the onion but the pain is liveble.
I just can not stop treating it as I am sure THIS ONE COMES BACK VERY FAST!
I never thought I would say that but here WE GO.
I WISH I HAD JUST NEUROLYME !!
BLO is WORST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do not react on bartonella henselae anymore from rife machine.When on 03/05/2007 it was OOF the chart....I was in surreal pain and FELT tremendously chills on each frequencies...SO IS BLO left!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Still some foot pain and some bone pain here and there .So is not gone...it is like patches of BLO bugs on part of my body.I had it from head to toe.This is how my symtoms are associated and changed now.
But mentaly more stabilized .I feel like I am going back wards on the symtoms as I had started beeing sick ...DOES it make sense...I JUST DID NOT KNOW THAN ....
TREATING BART /BLO agreasively as a PRIORITY is the most important for neurological issues...
NEVER STOPP treating it as I do not beilive I have found something that kills it and that is why I am using high dosages to reach deeper places of my body ...my question is HOW long ?What is that I can take to keep it at the bay?
That is what I am trying to find through trial and errors .WHATEVER I took helped..but as soon as I stop treating it ....My neuro problems gets worst.
By the way .When you sleep you feel as your hands and feet jump and move unvoluntirly and like somthing pinches you.It is not lyme is BLO .My daughter has that.I watched her sleeping 2 night ago and I noticed my symtoms..and WAS sure that she has that one.PATTERNS in the skin matches.I am weighting for the FRY kit to run the test.THAN I WILL KNOW FOR SURE the NAME of that BUG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Clarissa
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Alv,
Couldn't you take the Cumanda as a maintenace program after you do all of the killing?
My LLMD recommends Mesosilver as maintenance but I get scared of the mercury.
He also told me about a group of products called Deseret Biologicals (see Sparkle's post on the Dark side of silver).
I want to stay on "something" so that sneaky Bart doesn't come out of remission.
I totally agree with you that Lyme is far "easier" to deal with than the Bart. My 6 mos of treating Bart was waaaaaaaaay worse than my 2 years of treating Lyme.
Bart/BLO or whatever it is...it's just the DEVIL!!
Let me know what you would recommend for maintenance when you're in bart remission. I'm thinking of Cumanda.
CD57
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Member # 11749
posted
I had a phone consult with Dr Z, Chinese medicine out of NYC, this AM (thanks Keebler for pointing me in his direction). He thinks that 6 months of his HH capsules are very effective against bart/BLO.
He also, interestingly, said that our body's immune system response is likely why we still have symptoms after long periods of treatment. Ie; auto-immunity. And that his AI capsules would help down-regulate the cytokines responsible for this.
Final interesting point: he suggested his artemesinin capsules for babesia. I said that Dr B had written in his 2005 guidelines that monotherapy with just art didn't eradicate; Dr Zhang said "we are not seeing this at all".
Interesting!
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suki444
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posted
CD57 - Just to clarify - do you mean the Zhang's Artemesiae (which are artesunate) or actual Artemesinin?
CD57
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posted
Zhang's....not artemesinin
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Clarissa
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C: I was told the same thing about Zhang's artemisae. My LLMD at the time said you could take it with 500mg zith daily and NO mepron.
Ramp up to 12 artemisae a day. I don't think anything's been proven yet and most LLMD's find it preposterous to leave Mepron out of the Babs treatment equation.
CD57
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posted
We could all do without the yellow paint. But I don t get it because wouldn't Dr B have said it works on its own, if it truly does? The other thing--if HH capsules eradicates bart on its own, wouldn't we have heard about that too?
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Alv
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posted
OK ...MEPRON is not working on MY SON!
PROVED it with muscle testing.His body wanted ZHANGS artemisin .
SO even though I have to give it based on LLMD I knew right away that he still have babs when he started the protokoll as CLARISA from the same DR.
HE started right away to have headaches on his forhead and in his neck only.
So there were still bugs there that would have caused my son relapse. Even though MUSCLE test showed that it was not active but he still wanted ARTEMISIN and NOT MEPRON .Second Dr Verified it with muscle testing too.
SO ZHAngs ARTEMISIn is GREAT.I am seeign results.
My son has said that he feels better on his memory lately.Thanks to ZHANGS artemisin.BY the way My son used other artemisins...before since 2006 when I did not know he had lyme but while I was detoxing my self and MY SON my other Dr said that HIS BODY WANTS ARTEMISIN as HE HAS PARASITES in HIS LIVER.
BABESIA is a parasite.
By The way .HH are working .I should have relapsed hard once I stoped LEVAQUIN as I did when I stoped it on the first time.But no I ramped up in 15 HH capsules and I catch up .It took 2 days to stop the hands turnign BLUE and than this sign was gone.
ALSo I introduced BANDEROL.I tried today 240 drops in one sip ( empty stomack after DETOX things that I do regurarly every morning ).
Herxed in my gallblader again second day in a raw with the use of banderol in high dosages but this time less and shorter of periods.
I know LYME and company loves gallblader .My itching in my liver has finally stoped.SHARP pain on the back of my liver has stopped.Crawling still there as bugs are trying to hide in tissue in ekstremities.
HELPED myself with sauna.Felt the same tingling and sharp pain on my right foot as I felt when used LEVAQUIN.
I am going to try to increase BANDEROL.
I still take 15 HH capsules every day and it has been more than 2 weeks .Started HH capsules from 5 a day and increased it slowly the week before I stoped LEVAQUIN and jumped to 15 when I had to stop LEVAQUIN per MY LLMD .
LEVAQUIN worked for me.But using it for long time IS VERY VERY TOXIC .HH is not and I herx and I fell WAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY less toxic.
I LOVE HERBS they Are great .
But just a " LITTLE "problem.THE DOSAGE I TAKE IS $$$$$!
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posted
Have any of you considered buying the Houttuynia Cordata from 1stchineseherbs.com or someplace like that? Do you think it'd work just as well? Zhangs is just too expensive if it's just the same herb you can get cheaper anywhere else.
I know his artemisae is actually artesunate so that makes sense to get from him. But the HH Capsules and the Coptis doesn't it make sense to buy that cheaper from another supplier?
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Alv
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posted
I have not used it ...but should be consider...
So far I am still on HH.YES it is very exspensive and I was taking 15 per day ...it is more than a month.
Consider adding BANDEROL drops..IT is working.
I am still on 15 HH capsules and 250 DROPS of banderol.NOT SLIDING BACK.Steady.
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posted
Is that Coptis chinensis root? How many mg do you take?
barb
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METALLlC BLUE
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posted
Dr. Zhangs formula is gauranteed potency and purity. Remember there are pesticides, heavy metals, and a variety of things. Dr. Zhang talks about this in his book.
It's worth the money to get a quality product that is safe, tested, not to mention, with years of research behind it.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-
pryorka - (from four posts up)
I wanted clarify an ingredient you mentioned: " . . . his artemisae is actually artesunate . . ."
According to the label, it is not artesunate.
It is an "extract of Artemisiae annua L. herba" and two other ingredients (p. 76 of his book).
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barbarame -
I hope you've been able to connect with an LLMD. Some use this as part of their protocol.
Before taking any of these herbs, it is important to read about them and the overall protocol.
After you've read Dr. Zhang's book, he offers a free consultation to guide you in the right direction. He also has a web site available to patients and answers general questions weekly there.
posted
Zhang's HH caps are an extract of the whole plant. If you buy the whole herb from 1st chinese, then the strength will be less than Zhang's because extracts are concentrated, but it should still work the same if you can figure out the equivalent dose.
Susceptibilities of Mycoplasma hominis to herbs. Che YM, Mao SH, Jiao WL, Fu ZY.
"To determine the susceptibilities of Mycoplasma homonis (M. hominis) to Chinese medicinal herbs in vitro, 30 clinical strains of M. hominis were isolated and identified from the clinical specimen. The susceptibilities of M. hominis to 19 herbs were determined by serial dilution methods in vitro. The results showed that M. hominis was susceptible to Radix Isatidis, Radix Angelicae Dahuricae, Cortex Phellodendri, Radix et Rhizoma Rhei, Fructus Kochiae and Herba Houttuyniae. These findings laid a foundation in treating M. hominis infection with Chinese herbs."
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posted
I buy Plum Flower brand, which I really trust because they don't chemically treat their herbs and the quality seems consistently good.
I know potency might be a concern, but I find the Plum Flower brand powder to be really helpful for my bartonella: when I begin to relapse even slightly on the Rifampin dose I'm already taking, I just increase my amount of this herb and the bartonella symptoms calm down. It's amazing stuff.
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I'm just ready to start this. How much of the Plum Flower brand are you taking per dose per day to get results? Are you using 0 or 00 caps?
Thanks, bf
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pamoisondelune
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Read about Houttuynia on Dave's Garden website. It's about the easiest plant in the world to grow, utterly invasive and ineradicable. No one should plant it in their garden.
But why then are Dr Zhang's HH pills so expensive? You could grow it in a pot indoors,; it's also edible, used in Vietnamese cooking.
I plan to grow it in a pot indoors. Now, who has information about converting plant to pill dosage??
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METALLlC BLUE
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I'll repeat again, because this is critical to understand. The substances that give the herbs their medicinal properties are extracted, appropriately dosed, and prior to extraction, the quality is controlled, contamination avoided, and therapeutic potency is standarized.
The extracted compounds that make the herb effective are measured carefully in this respect.
Dr. Zhang states: The guidelines for the herbal products of our clinic: The active ingredient is identifiable, the potency is measurable, the therapeutic action is predictable, and the clinical outcome is repeatable.
You're dealing with a scientist, a doctor who cares about patients enough to do free phone consultations for medical advice when his book and products are used for the purpose of recovery.
Here, read about Dr. Zhang:
quote: Upon graduation from Shanghai Second Medical University in 1962, Dr. Qingcai Zhang worked as a physician in a teaching hospital, The Reijing Hospital of the Shanghai Second Medical University in Shanghai, China, and doing clinical and research work to integrate Chinese and Western medicine. He was an associate professor of medicine at the medical university. In 1980, he was awarded a World Health Organization scholarship, which supported his two-year fellowship in Harvard Medical School and Massachusetts General Hospital. In 1984 he worked as a research fellow at the Wakai Clinic in Nagoya, Japan. A year later, he received a one-year appointment from the University of California at Davis as a visiting professor. Since 1986, Dr. Zhang has been the primary researcher at the Oriental Healing Arts Institute in Long Beach, Calif., where he conducted research on treating AIDS with Chinese medicine, designed herbal formulas for AIDS patients, and published two books on AIDS and Chinese medicine. He started his private practice in 1990, first in Cypress, California, and then moved to New York City in 1992. He is the founder of Zhang's Clinic in New York City and White Plains, New York. Since 1987, he has been focusing on treating chronic viral diseases with modern Chinese herbal medicine, such as viral hepatitis and AIDS, infectious diseases, such as Lyme Disease, and autoimmune diseases, such as inflammatory bowel diseases, psoriasis and rheumatoid arthritis.
When you buy from Zhang, you're buying more than an herb. I should do his PR and advertising, don't you agree? It's true though, I've investigated the guy, he's squeaky clean, and good at what he does.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-
And, this is to be a combined protocol. These are not stand alone, cafeteria menu items.
If the protocol is not done right, it will not work as intended.
Now, within that, there are two protocols for lyme (one with and one with allicin) and several adjustments for co-infections.
And, there are also various supportive herbs (and those may be traded out for other reputable brands, but I'd confirm with Dr. Z.) I've seen many questions on his web forum where someone asked if this or that would be okay to add and, if it's good, he usually says, yes. If not, he says why.
PLEASE READ THE BOOK. Please talk to Dr. Z. I've never known anyone more accessible to patients. I can call with a question and if he's not busy, he'll talk to me. He's good at working with other doctors, too.
He has email. He has a web forum, where weekly he will answer questions.
I saw him in a lecture that was intended for his hepatitis patients and he geared an extra portion for lyme discussion.
All of the 30 or so patients were doing remarkably well with the hepatitis protocols. The only other lyme patient there was about 90% back to normal, and talked with Dr. Z about how to move forward from that.
I've only done this is bits and pieces, as money allowed. When I was on this protocol - completely - I was so much better. No seizures, less hyperacusis and less light sensitivity. I felt better and could think more clearly.
Had I had the money, I would have - should have - stuck to this.
I tried to find less expensive substitutes.
Well, that may be done, but I never found any that were comparable. And, by trying to do my own formula/protocols, I missed the boat.
And, although the cost may be out of my reach, I know that it is a fair price, all things considered.
I'm not saying this is right for everyone. And, of course, not everyone can afford it and other plans must then be made.
If there is anyway you can do this, considering my experience of floundering and failure from just doing bits and pieces, I urge you to do it as correctly as possible if this is what you have chosen.
All that said, for herbs in general, yes, Plum Flower is an excellent brand if you are not intending to do the protocol but just need the herbs as part of another program your doctor has suggested.
It's important to keep in mind that single herbs will not have the same effect as that herb in a formula. There are many things to consider.
This has only one brief reference to lyme and is not a lyme book. It is a wonderful book, however, to learn the basics about plant-based medicine.
The study of herbs is far more brilliantly complex than I every thought when I first started studying this.
And, as mentioned in a post above, Buhner's "Healing Lyme" holds much value, too. It is different than Dr. Z's and even if one does not choose this path, it's good to have read his book, too.
Herbs come in many different forms. The most common are crude herbs, powders, dried decoctions, tinctures, capsules, gelcaps, salves, oils and teas.
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* CRUDE HERBS are simply collected and dried, then cut and sifted. This is the original way herbs have been prepared since the dawn of time.
This form is commonly found in traditional herb shops around the world, and in ethnic neighborhoods in major cities in the United States.
The advantage of this form is that you can actually see, taste and smell the herbs. Crude herbs are usually taken home and cooked into teas.
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* POWDERS are simply ground crude herbs. You can use powders to make herbal tea, or simply ingest them in their natural form. I like powders because they allow you to experience the taste and smell of the herbs you are using.
Another benefit of this form is that you can often take larger doses of the herbs. However, powdered herbs do not last as long in storage as the other forms.
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* TEAS are aqueous extractions of crude herbs or herbal powders. Most herbs today come in pills or tinctures, so to make sure we do not forget our herbal roots, I always make sure to keep some loose herb teas in the house.
There are several methods of preparation for herbal tea. Infusion, better for delicate leaves and flowers, entails bringing water to a light boil, turning off the heat, and letting the herbs steep in the water.
Leaving the crude herbs out in the sun for a couple of hours in a tightly sealed container makes Sun tea. Simmering the herbs for anywhere from ten minutes up to an hour (longer is better for the much heavier barks and roots) makes a decoction.
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* TINCTURES are extracts made by soaking herbs in solutions designed to draw out their virtues. Alcohol is the most common soaking solution for tinctures. Tincture manufacturers must have recipe books to guide them, as the exact method will differ for each herb.
Tinctures are valuable because they are easy to digest and absorb. Some herbs can only be used in this form. The strength of a tincture should be listed on the bottle in the form of a ratio, such as 1:5 or 1:2.
The first number tells you how much of the herb is present, and the second number tells you how much menstruum (the liquid used to dissolve the herb) is in the preparation. Therefore, a 1:5 tincture is weaker than a 1:2 tincture, because a larger volume of liquid is used.
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* DRIED DECOCTIONS, also called CONCENTRATED GRANULES, are used primarily by Chinese (TCM) herbalists. This method of preparing herbs was devised several decades ago in Taiwan by a group of chemists and traditional doctors.
Basically, the herbs are cooked as teas in large vats and the solid residues are removed, after which the remaining liquids are dried out until only powders remain. Sometimes certain important components (such as volatile oils) are collected separately by specialized equipment and then added back to the final product.
These powders are usually about four times more potent than the crude herbs. The label may list a ratio of 4:1, but concentration can be as low as 2:1 or even as high as 10:1.
Dried decoctions still retain the herbs' basic tastes and smells, and the concentrations of chemicals discourage bacterial growth so they tend to store well. I use these granules frequently in my practice.
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* CONCENTRATED HERBAL EXTRACTS are now made using various methods. These extracts, in liquid or solid form, can be anywhere from two to 100 times more concentrated in certain components than crude herbs.
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* CAPSULES are simply powdered herbs, dried decoctions or concentrated herbal extracts that have been put into gelatin capsules.
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* TABLETS are simply powdered herbs, dried decoctions or concentrated herbal extracts with a binding substance added. They are then are pressed into tablets by a machine
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* GELCAPS are sealed gelatin capsules that hold either tinctures or concentrated liquid herbal extracts.
In addition to the considerations above, and mentioned repeatedly in the book, different parts of a plant can have entirely different effects.
Also, the time of year for harvest, the growing conditions matters and the treatment at every step of the way can matter tremendously. The manner in which harvesting is done can also make a difference.
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[ 27. July 2008, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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CD57
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posted
Anyone else want to weigh in on these capsules? I just realized I'm supposed to be taking 2, 3x day, not 1 3x day. Oops!
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posted
Hey Keebler I know what you're saying but if you read Dr. Schallers book on babesia he mentions that even though it has that label it actually includes artesunate (which is 4 to 5 times stronger) since Dr. Zhang recommends it over artemisinin. But then Dr. Zhang also includes the rest of the plant. That's why his pills are so much stronger than any other. The artesunate reacts with stomach acid to produce dihydroartemisinin (the active chemical) whereas the artemisinin is absorbed into the bloodstream and the liver removes a good portion of it before it ever gets converted into dihydroartemisinin. Based on how it works it's probably a good idea not to reduce your stomach acid with PPI's or tums or anything while you're taking it. That last statement is just my guess since they don't send any drug interaction info.
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Keebler
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posted
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Dr. Zhang has a web site that can be accessed by calling Hepapro. Or you might try www.sinomedresearch.org and see if the password "clinic" and then, "clinic" again will get you through.
Many LLMDs incorporate his protocol and he sometimes incorporates theirs.
It would be hard to make an informed decision about complementary support until each of these books has been considered. They each offer valuable information but, in some ways, are very different from each other.
There is also the Cowden protocol but I have no knowledge of that. Many here find it helpful and it should be easy to search on google. Jerigan (sp?) has authored another book to consider.
Please, don't just take this or that. It is vital to read all the materials first and then discuss your questions with your doctor.
Lyme Disease and Modern Chinese Medicine (Paperback) by Dr. QingCai Zhang (Author), Yale Zhang (Author)
=======================================
This book has only one reference to lyme (in the historical use of sarsarparilla for another spirochetal infection). However, it is a vital first book to read - or a reference - for anyone interested in understanding nutritional methods.
Graciously, much of this book is on line. It can also be purchased from this site or through Amazon where you can look inside the book and see many customer reviews.
posted
I've personally used the raw houttuynia herb in capsules and also in decoction, and I have herxed pretty intensely on both. I use Plum Flower brand which is a really good brand (not sprayed, pure).
I totally understand the argument for buying a standardized product from Dr. Zhang, and he seems to know what he's doing, but houttuynia is prepared as a decoction for other conditions in TCM, so I don't see why using the raw herb and making a decoction wouldn't replicate that.
However, seeing someone who uses it properly is definitely important. Houttuynia is considered a "cool" or "cold" herb in TCM, and antibiotics are also considered cooling, so a TCM herbalist as I understand it would combine it with a warmer herb. I take garlic and astragalus for this.
I'm just putting this out there since not everyone can afford to do it differently.
I also looked into getting houttuynia injections from China, as it is used in an injectible form there, but unfortunately it's not available as there were some rare but serious adverse reactions (i.e. deaths).
Posts: 929 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Oct 2007
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CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
LymeCFIDS...what do you think it did for your bart? You note herxes, what happened?
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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'Kete-tracker
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posted
Was given HH capsules by my LLND during my battle w/ Lyme [only, as far as we know]. Was the closest thing to placebo (no effect) as any capsule I've taken. You May be reacting to the herb it's based on. (I couldn't take Coptis- caused heart palpitations/anxiousness for me, a rare but documented phenomena.)
Remember... real "herxing" is ONLY a 'delayed' reaction to an antibiotic- or other compound w/ antibiotic properties- that's killing a SPIROCHETAL bacteria [like Lyme]. Period.
You can get an 'immediate' reaction due to an allergy...or even some major killing off of a simple bacteria.
I guess the key here is "what else are you taking"?
Posts: 1233 | From Dover, NH | Registered: Sep 2008
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posted
CD57, the houttuynia has had a similar effect to Rifampin for me. At first I have a herx that involves pain on the soles of the feet, early morning anxiety, extreme irritability and extreme hypersensitivity to sound. Then that dies down and those symptoms stay more in check. It also helps control the heart symptoms I have had with bartonella.
I have stopped Rifampin recently and just been taking the houttuynia. I think it has a similar action. I feel like I need both, but it holds down the bart pretty well on its own at this point.
When my bart symptoms get worse, particularly my heart symptoms, I will increase my dose of houttuynia substantially and take both capsules and decoction, and this pushes down the flare-up.
Posts: 929 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Oct 2007
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CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
What doses of HH are you taking?
do you have twitches with the bartonella?
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
Yes I have some muscle jerking and twitching.
I vary the dose a lot depending on flared up I feel, but I generally take about 8 "00" capsules full of raw houttuynia herb a day now (that I encapsulate myself using the powdered houttuynia). For quite awhile I was mostly doing a decoction, and I add the decoction when I am more flared up with bart symptoms.
Posts: 929 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Oct 2007
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Alv
Unregistered
posted
Hi Kete ! You have the BABS type bacteria that is a protozoa and that is why react on coptis.I am 100% symtoms on BABS /protozoa type of infections that I have not treated and a few bart.
I am testing HIGHLY in COPTIS-it covers fungy ALSO.That means that you are dealing with the other bug AND PROBABLY FUNGY .Ironicly not me as I have them both .NOW that bart is going DOWN my babs /protozoa BUG is off the roof...
NEED to do antiprotozoal treatment fully forced.Everything I have done have kept it at the bay as I was focused in BART and now that I think bart is LOW...just fingers and feet and some in my knee Babs/protozoa is getting crazy .
I tested and reacted on babs frequencies today very very high first TIME!!!! Before I used to be a few minutes.sO WHAT DOES NOT WORK FOR YOU DOES NOT MEAN IT DOES NOT WORK FOR OTHERS.
Ironicly some have both bugs and are not dealing with many .Finding what you have is the key.I am going to focus on PROTOZOAL right now !!
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