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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Bionic 880 thread - promise I won't delete it (Page 12)

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Author Topic: Bionic 880 thread - promise I won't delete it
wiserforit2
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Posting again for hope of a reply. No replies from Bionic 880 users on my last post.

I'm working on saving enough for Germany.

Has everyone who has gone over purchased the Bionic 880?

For those who haven't bought one, what are you doing to treat the rest of the co's, etc.?

(Sorry if the answer to this is buried within the last 24 pages.... my brain foggy reading and vision aren't what they used to be!)

thanks in advance for answers,

wiserforit2

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sixgoofykids
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Zombie, I had suspected Lyme in my youngest daughter and she has had improvement. My Lymie daughter (the diagnosed one) was considered in remission, but she has seen improvement in her headaches. I think it's worthwhile for the reasons you give. My hubby has more energy and he never showed any Lyme symptoms.

Wiserforit, I believe everyone who has gone at least has access to a machine.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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sixgoofykids
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Zombie, I had suspected Lyme in my youngest daughter and she has had improvement. My Lymie daughter (the diagnosed one) was considered in remission, but she has seen improvement in her headaches. I think it's worthwhile for the reasons you give. My hubby has more energy and he never showed any Lyme symptoms.

Wiserforit, I believe everyone who has gone at least has access to a machine.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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SForsgren
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If you go, you almost certainly need to bring back a machine. The short 3 week treatment there is not enough to make a lasting difference and only enough to hit Borrelia and none of the other likely dozen or more key infections that are part of our total body burden.

It is really just the starting point.

The machine runs about 5800 EUR + 19% VAT tax which you can get refunded with proper proof of export at a later time.

--------------------
Be well,
Scott

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ctlyme
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Nanodubo,

You mentioned knowing of another person that sees your LLND going to Germany.

Has that person seen Dr W yet and does your LLND still see this as a therapy He/She will look into further?

Thanks

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sixgoofykids
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quote:
Originally posted by SForsgren:

The machine runs about 5800 EUR + 19% VAT tax which you can get refunded with proper proof of export at a later time.

Yeah, that didn't happen for me. I got proper proof and mailed it at the airport. DON'T do that. I know two of us this happened to.

Now I can drive to Chicago (five hour drive), get it stamped (maybe) at the German embassy, then try again.

Whatever you do, don't mail it at the airport.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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hiker53
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Sixgofy and Scott,

So where exactly does one go at the Stuggart airport or elsewhere to get their tax money back?
After reading the blogs I am still confused exactly where to go and I'm sure people are rushed when they get to the airport.

How much time,Sixgoofy, did you allow from the Kleins until your flight left? Thanks. Hiker53

--------------------
Hiker53

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darkness." 1John 1:5

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NanaDubo
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ctlyme, the other person who sees the same LLND that I did is leaving for Germany very soon - a week or so I think.

I don't know if he still has any interest in this. Maybe when his next patient returns.

When I saw him shortly after I returned from Germany he seemed a little excited about my results and skeptical at the same time. Pretty normal I guess.

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nyjohn
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zombie
of course you can post my progress on your blog---
see you there!

--------------------
do your best to educate the rest because
9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses

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GiGi
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Hiker, We had our "letter", which the manufacturer supplied us, stamped by Customs at the Stuttgart Airport. If you depart from Frankfurt, you can do it there also. We mailed it in the envelope provided by the manufacturer and put it in the German Postal mailbox at the Stuttgart airport. We had no problem at all.
"Information" booth will tell you where the Customs Office is and where the mailbox for the German Post Office is.

If you depart early in the morning, check with the Customs office to see if they are open that early. We stayed one night near the airport because we had an early morning flight and I had to deal with a wheelchair and luggage at the same time.

The VAT tax has to be paid on any item that is sold in Germany, that is the law, unless you file this excemption. Am not sure that the Company still does it this way because some people did not return the stamped form. You may want to call or e-mail the manufacturer before you leave for Germany to find out exactly how they do it now. It's worth it = the VAT is 20%.

Take care.

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sixgoofykids
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I did exactly the same as GiGi, so did Willow, and neither of us got the money back.

Hiker, the Kleins say it's easier to fly into Frankfurt and take the fast train to Karlsruhe. If you go to Stuttgart, you take four trains, which we found difficult since none of us spoke German and since we had to take all our luggage.

The Kleins arranged for transport for us back to the airport (we hired a driver). I don't remember how early we left, but I do remember the driver told us how early we needed to leave.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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GiGi
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Our invoice for the Bionic880 did not include the VAT, because we promised to and sent the excemption form at the Stuttgart Airport as instructed by the manufacturer.

That is why we did not expect a refund.

These instruments when sold to German or EU nationals must include the VAT. It is the law. The manufacturer has to pay it to the Government.

This same instruments costs some 7000plus Euros when sold to a German resident or EU people.
Foreigners do not have to pay VAT, but if you did not return the form that the manufacturer provided you for the purpose of getting it stamped at the point of exit when you leave the country, he has to pay the VAT, and you cannot expect a refund.

We paid 6400 Euros, returned the stamped form to the manufacturer when we left from Stuttgart, mailing it in the envelope provided in the German Post Office mailbox at the airport. It wasn't easy because I had to deal with a wheelchair and a husband and luggage.

The Customs Office location and mailbox location can easily be found by asking at the "Information" desk at any airport.

Got to run.

P.S. I have taken the train from Stuttgart Airport to downtown Stuttgart many times. it is one train that runs every 15-20 minutes directly into the main Railway Station downtown Stuttgart.

There you get the direct train to Pforzheim. It is one train only that runs almost every hour.
ou can easily get train schedules by googling the German Railways or Deutsche Bundesbahn train schedules. It pays to learn to read a few basic German words. It is no surprise that most Europeans forgot their English while Bush was in office! That was very obvious to me when we were there last.

[ 05. January 2009, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: GiGi ]

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sixgoofykids
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quote:
Originally posted by GiGi:
but if you did not return the form that the manufacturer provided you for the purpose of getting it stamped at the point of exit when you leave the country, he has to pay the VAT, and you cannot expect a refund.

Because one person did not mail back the form, now the company charges everyone the VAT tax, then when the person sends the form back to the company in the provided envelope they will send the refund.

Two of us, separately from each other, got the form stamped, put it in the mailbox at the airport, and the company said they never received it.

BTW, I spent HOURS listening to German tapes, I knew a few words. For those of you going, if you do speak another language, when you come across someone who doesn't speak English, ask them if they speak the other language you do ... Spanish came in handy for me more than once.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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zombie_mummy
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I just called and confirmed my appointment for next Thursday. I'm getting really excited/anxious!

[woohoo]

I have a question for those who have stayed at the Klein's guesthouse: How are the kitchen facilities? Do they supply most things one would need to prepare meals? Does each unit have a fridge? I'm on a limited diet and will probably need to prepare all my food at the guesthouse.

I'm going to be in apt. 6 (ground floor). Have any of you who have already been to Germany had that apt?

--------------------
"Be it, don't dream it." -Dr. Frank-N-Furter

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UnexpectedIlls
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zombie-- i am so excited for you!! WIsh I was going with you.... Best wishes and healing to you!

[Smile]

--------------------
"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

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GiGi
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Zombie, everything you need to cook a meal is in that apartment. We lived in No. 6, cooked, baked, lived, loved, and slept in that apartment, and had a good time.

Take care.

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zombie_mummy
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Thank you for your well wishes, Shandy. [Smile]

And thank you, GiGi, for letting me know about your good experience in apt. 6! That is very reassuring. It certainly looks lovely in the photos on the website.

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"Be it, don't dream it." -Dr. Frank-N-Furter

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sixgoofykids
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Zombie, yes, the kitchen is well-supplied. [Smile]

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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zombie_mummy
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Thanks, Six. What about refrigerators/mini-fridges? Does each apt. have one? I just don't see any in the website pictures...

I currently cannot tolerate any grains at all, in addition to soy, potatoes, lactose and most sugars. I'm afraid I won't be able to sample the local cuisine like many of the others who have gone over for treatment. [Frown] That's why it is very important to me to have a good kitchen!

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sixgoofykids
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Yes, there are refrigerators in the rooms. [Smile]

Sorry about not being able to sample the local cuisine. [Frown]

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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zombie_mummy
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I'm going with my parents so I'll be enjoying the local cuisine vicariously through them... I know they are looking forward to sampling the lovely German beer, wine and pastries!

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"Be it, don't dream it." -Dr. Frank-N-Furter

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Julia
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I'm new and been reading up on the Bionic and plan on going myself soon. Good luck Zombie. I'll look forward to reading your blog.
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NanaDubo
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Good luck Zombie - I have a friend staying at the Klein's now and sure you will meet her.

The apartments are great, as are the Kleins and Dobel.

Get out and see some sights when you are up for it. There are some magical towns.

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zombie_mummy
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Thanks everybody. I can't believe I'll be leaving in 4 days. Everything is coming together: I just got a copy of my labs etc. from my LLMD. I'll be giving him an update when I get back.

I'm going to be using a wheelchair while I'm there (I'm only able to walk very short distances before my legs get shaky and I nearly keel over from exhaustion) so any tips on that would be helpful.

Is Dr. W.'s office wheelchair-accessible?

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"Be it, don't dream it." -Dr. Frank-N-Furter

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sixgoofykids
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Has he moved yet? His old office was not accessible.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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hiker53
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Dr. W is not moving until April, now. However, someone who was over there this fall had a wheelchair and stayed at the Kleins and saw Dr. W, so maybe they can carry you in!.

Whatever it takes to get well, right?

Hiker53

--------------------
Hiker53

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darkness." 1John 1:5

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pab
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Good Luck!

--------------------
Peggy

~ ~ Hope is a powerful medicine. ~ ~

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ukcarry
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Good luck from me too!
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NanaDubo
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zombie, there is one flight of stairs to Dr. W's office (8-10). The person there in the fall had a companion for being carried up the stairs.

There are also a couple of steps down to your apartment - not very many.

Can your Dad carry you? If not, do you think you can make it with someone under each arm?

If the Kleins are picking you up at the train, make sure they know you are bringing a wheelchair so they bring the car with more trunk space.

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sixgoofykids
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The lady in the wheelchair last fall also could walk a little without it. There were times she walked up the stairs, it just took her a while. So, don't feel bad if you just take a long time to get up them. He's used to having Lyme patients. [Smile]

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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zombie_mummy
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I can walk, just not so well. I still use the stairs in my home, I just go very slowly... It should be okay for me to get up to the doctor's -I just need to give myself extra time.

Lymeparfait - You've sent me 2 PMs but your mailbox is full. I'll just respond here:

We are flying into Frankfurt and then renting a car from there. Because of my mobility issues, we opted not to take the train. And yes, we are staying at the Kleins. I will probably bring the Bionic 880 back in my carry-on luggage. I don't want to risk it getting damaged in the hold. Thank you for your well-wishes. [Smile]

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"Be it, don't dream it." -Dr. Frank-N-Furter

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zombie_mummy
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quote:
Originally posted by sixgoofykids:
The lady in the wheelchair last fall also could walk a little without it. There were times she walked up the stairs, it just took her a while. So, don't feel bad if you just take a long time to get up them. He's used to having Lyme patients. [Smile]

Do you know how that lady is doing now?

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zombie_mummy
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I have yet more questions for those who've gone already.

How much can we expect to pay for the treatment? I told my Dad I thought it was around 2000USD or maybe more. Does that sound right?

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"Be it, don't dream it." -Dr. Frank-N-Furter

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sixgoofykids
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Sorry, I haven't heard from her in a while. She had a lot of health issues, so Lyme wasn't all there was .... just like all of us.

That sounds about right on the price of treatment, depending on the exchange rate, of course.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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sixgoofykids
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John, I sent you a couple emails and have not heard back .... maybe they're going into your junk mail folder (that happens sometimes with my email address). I can't PM you because your mailbox is full.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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n.northernlights
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I was thinking about the troubles you had with getting the VAT back.
(many of the forms posted from the letter box in the airport terminal seem to have disappeared, so people did not get their money back, and the company stopped selling the machines without tax because they did not get the forms back)

I have gotten back VAT a few times here in Europe, and it is just like it ahs been explained in this thread, you get the taxfree form stamped at the customs (but I have also gotten it stamped there where I took the goods, a police/customs /governor office), and I mailed the form back after I arrived. Got the money on my account.

I was thinking you might be safer if you take the form back with you, and get a certified copy done, and then mail the original to where it should be mailed.

Any other purchase above a minimum limit (I do not know what the minimum is) you can also get your VAT back on. If there is VAT on nosodes and homeopathics, you can get the taxes back on them too, biotensors, anything, clothes, souvenirs.

I was wondering, you woose form got lost, if you can get a new form, and show the machine to the german embassy, and they check the serial number, I do not know, and they attest you have taken it out of Germany, if it would still be possible to get the tax back.
now they need this form for their own accounting, in order not to pay tax on it themselves. It is listed in their books as sales out of the country. I mean they need it for 2008 so you would have to hurry up an d contact them to ask if they could still fit it in, and then there is the problem of who should attest the form, is it any customs station like at your airport, or the German embassy, or the local police station.
Just thinking.

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sixgoofykids
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Thanks for the thoughts northernlights .... I think people going now should read over them carefully!

For me, I do have another "original" receipt. HOWEVER, the nearest embassy is a five hour drive, so would require food, lodging, transportation, etc. with no guarantee of refund. In the end, I opted not to do it.

I do not think it's far fetched to think someone at the airport is making a profit off taking the forms out of the mailbox, but that is just speculation. I hate to think the problem is with the people who make the Bionic, that just makes less sense.

If I lived nearer to an embassy, I would have gone there to try to get the money back.

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n.northernlights
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I was also thinking about the distance, that it would be too far away for many.

You have a receipt, but you still need another of those forms. Plus a customs office.
Maybe a police station, or a courthouse will do? Would depend on what the accountant or accountig company of the German company can accept. E-mail them?
Where I live, I can download ours VAT return forms from the internet.

We have customs offices inland too. Maybe not so common inside the U.S. except for airports that have international arrivals or ports for ships.

Yes, maybe people should get the form stamped at the airport as usual, but not mail it from there, but from at home after making a copy...something weird might be going on at the airport.

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Brussels
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Just an idea. I live in Switzerland, 2 hours away from Pforzheim. I get part of the VAT back when I buy something in Germany, I only pay the VAT from here (Switzerland).

I wonder if it would be possible to leave the EU from Switzerland with the Bionic, get a stamp that the machine left the EU, and then go back (theoretically without the machine) to where you bought your Bionic and get the money back directly from them?

Switzerland is less than two hours away from Stuttgart.

That's what we do on the border here. We get the customs forms from the shop where we buy stuff in Germany, fill them in, get a stamp showing the merchandise left Germany (the EU) at the border with Switzerland, then come back to the shop any time later (in a period of 6 months) and get the money back in cash from the shop itself. As I live in the border, is no trouble for me.

You guys in Pforzeheim would take only two hours to leave the EU from there. The only problem is that you'll probably have to enter again with the machine back to Germany, I mean, as your flight is probably leaving from Germany. There's usually no border control, but if there is, there can be trouble as you stamped saying the machine left Germany (and why is it getting back there again?).

I don't know if it will work, but there's a great chance it will. I cross the border at least once a week if not more, and very rarely get checked. Maybe once a year someone asks my passport? I never got my trunk checked so far. I got local plate numbers, so they know I live next to the border though.

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heiwalove
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up for more bionic thoughts/experiences [Smile]

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NanaDubo
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I did not have to pay the VAT tax because I did a bank transfer. Not sure why that is different.

I have talked with someone who is over there now and it seems things have changed and even if you do a bank transfer for the machine, you now pay the tax.

Sorry I can't be of more help with that question but wanted to let you know that the situation has changed and I believe the price has also.

The person I spoke with said the 2009 price for the bionic is 6,400 euro plus the 19% tax. The base price is less than when I was there in September.

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UnexpectedIlls
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Anyone know how Zombie-Mummy is doing?? There is nothing on her blog and she hasn't posted here... Hope she is doing well!

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I returned from Germany 3 days ago. I was treated 6x for Borreliosis with the bionic and then Dr W. declared me to be free of Lyme.

Sorry I did not do the blog -the internet connection at the Kleins was up several flights of stairs (I have mobility issues) and I did not want to use an internet cafe due to the EMFs.

I am not yet feeling significantly better -although I am very jet-lagged right now so it's hard to tell.

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sixgoofykids
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Welcome home Zombie! Are you going to be continuing treatment from home? Did you have other issues besides Lyme? I know I had to treat co's. [Smile]

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zombie_mummy
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Thanks Six. I purchased a machine so, yes, I will continue to treat at home.

Dr. W. also wants me to continue with ozone iv and SCENAR treatments so I'm sourcing that out right now.

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Brussels
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Six and others who did the Bionic, how are you guys testing for the borrelia nosodes, specially the higher potencies?

I heard from someone that came back from Germany some time ago still testing for the D200...

Just curious to know if you all test negative energetically for all the borrelia nosodes and antibodies...

Zoombie mummy, welcome back!!! I hope you'll post here about your trip / progress / treatment!!
thanks

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UnexpectedIlls
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Welcome home Zombie-Mummy!!

Hope you see improvements soon!!! [Smile]

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SForsgren
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It is important for us to remember that Lyme is more than Lyme alone. Just because the photons may have dealt with Borrelia does not mean that heavy metals, viruses, coinfections, etc. are wiped clean. I feel very good about the photons and the fact that I am off ABX now for 4 months without any relapse, but I also know that there is more work to be done in other areas.

I think the words "free of Lyme" are to indicate that Borrelia itself has been addressed, but it is not the end of the game. We have so many problems by the time we become ill and the likely have regeneration/repair work that is required as well.

I believe that there is more work to be done with and after continued used of photons but I feel very optimistic about them so far.

Just my thoughts.

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Be well,
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GiGi
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Glad you got the Borrelia behind you and made it back safely, Zombie.

As Scott said, free from Borrelia does not mean we are "free from Lyme" and unless anyone has no co-infections, that statement by the doctor is incorrect. I have told him so once I realized. Sadly, the co-infections are not treated by Dr. W. and I have yet to understand why. We have had to do a lot of treatments after getting home following the treatments in Germany and we are not quite home-free yet doing the Allergie Immun treatments.

As I have mentioned here before and on other threads, I was misinformed by the doctor early last year before we travelled overthere when he told and wrote me that the Bionic880 photons also "take all co-infections out" and also "take the heavy metals out". As it turns out, all of these infections, as well as others and any possible heavy metals need to be treated separately afterward.

We are now working with AI on repairing the damage done to gut (leaky gut) and to nerves, if any, and I pray that we will be successful.

Co-infections are not as common in Germany as they are here, but I now get advice from a couple of naturopaths there for our own treatments at least one of whom also will be treating co-infections once she has the proper nosodes. She happens to be the therapist who recommends to her clients to do the Allergie Immun test/therapy first because it clears out many problems and makes any other treatments easier. She tells me that this makes the overall treatments very successful.

Just want to make it clear that "free of Lyme" for most people with co-infections is not the correct statement. Free of Borrelia, that is a yes.

Take care.

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GiGi
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Brussels, some of the treatments have to be repeated. I used the whole D series up to D200, all of them together, and treated until all cleared. For borrelia and other infections, I often use the K1000 which contains all lower potencies, and when that clears I am usually done. Rarely ever does it need more treatments. Bartonella took several treatments. I treat K1000 until it doesn't test anymore. I have a dozen other vials of Bartonella, same and other strains, and none test. Same for mold and different fungi, nothing positive any longer.

I cannot find any more infections and neither, so far, can our ART therapist.

Now we are addressing the collateral damages in various ways, degeneration nosodes and AI being some of them.

Hope you are making continued progress!

Take care.

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Brussels
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Gigi, thanks for your clear answer. So after we clear the D200 dilution, we probably have to go to the K1000?? I never heard of such soooo high K dilutions (is the nosode coming from Brussels, Hildegard pharmacy?).

So the photons DO work with such high dilutions? Or is it only Korsakov potency that is good (because, as you said, it contains all the other previous dilutions)?

I wonder if you (or anyone here) had any experience with C or M dilutions and the Bionic.

The Germans are NOT used to employ K potencies, nor the Swiss. I find K only in Belgium and in France, but I NEVER so far heard of 1000K as normally, after 200K, the homeopaths shift to M or LM potencies....

I was just wondering as this lady still tests on and off for borrelia D200. So, for me, that means, she's NOT free of borrelia yet.

I wonder how Scott would be testing for the nosodes in higher dilutions. Or Sixgolfkids.... Or Deb. If they test negative to the D200 AND to higher dilutions now, a few months after the treatment. I'm not talking about lyme, I'm merely talking about borrelia.

it's merely a curiosity to see for how long the photon treatment could keep one in full remission from BORRLELIA.

I know for sure that I'm sick with MANY more pathogens than borrelia, as every time I get into remission, my life is still hell (one infection after the other). And probably I got loads of other problems, like the hidden allergy problem you mention, or still toxins, stuck heavy metals...

Where do you guys get the bartonella nosodes? From Desbio? I can't find them here in Europe...

I test consistently negative for dr. K's bart slide for ages, but I would like to see how I test for nosodes in different dilutions... I find the nosode testing for borrelia muuch more accurate than the borrelia slides.

Thanks again, and wishing you all good progress!!!

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zombie_mummy
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I got back a week ago. Sorry for not giving much in the way of an update. I caught a bad cold from my kids as soon as I got home and have been laid up. I'm trying to view this as a positive sign that my immune system is beginning to function better... (I used to never get colds!)

I believe the Bionic 880 treatment was successful in eradicating Borrellia bacteria from my body's cells. I am now beginning to see improvement in speech, swallowing and GI function. The bizarre skin rashes/bumps are clearing up. The depression, panic attacks and sensory issues (photosensitivity, hyperacusis) seem to be GONE. My motor functions are still bad but I'm told they should get better with physio. I have brought a machine back with me in order to continue treating co-infections, metals, etcetera.

I know I still have a lot of work to do but I also have hope again. [Smile]

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NanaDubo
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Brussels, I check the the individual vials from the borrelia series I brought back with me from time to time.

I test negatively for all of them and it's coming up on 6 months soon. I also test negatively for all the co-infection vials I have.

I am doing Allergie-Immun which is working on a very deep level. I am only doing that right now and trying to let my body re-learn how to deal with things without the help of much else besides the remedy.

zombie-mummy, I'm so glad you are seeing improvement!!

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Cooper
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What is the turn around time or wait to go? I have email their office as well. Maybe Germans dont email?
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sixgoofykids
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Cooper, sometimes they take some time to answer emails. I don't know what the wait is right now.

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Brussels
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Deb, thanks for your answer! So glad for you!!!
This is great news, wow, already 6 months!!

Did you continue photooning for borrelia or never more? If yes, it means the 2 weeks did the job for borrelia in your case? At least, until now!

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NanaDubo
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Brussels, not sure what you mean "at least, until now".

I have treated twice for borrelia at Dr. W's suggestion and that was it.

Cooper, it is probably best to call- early in the morning. They only take phone calls before 11 am (German time) now, as I was told recently.

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Brussels
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Deb, sorry, my brain is either going too fast... I know that Dr. W. sees some patients in a yearly base to check if they had their borrelia back or not. That's what I meant, that at least until now, you are probably not such a case for a relapse. Which is great!

So the total time of treatment for borrelia was about 3 weeks in total in your case?

It is AMAZING!!

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zombie_mummy
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quote:
Originally posted by Brussels:
Six and others who did the Bionic, how are you guys testing for the borrelia nosodes, specially the higher potencies?

I heard from someone that came back from Germany some time ago still testing for the D200...

Just curious to know if you all test negative energetically for all the borrelia nosodes and antibodies...

Zoombie mummy, welcome back!!! I hope you'll post here about your trip / progress / treatment!!
thanks

Thank you, Brussels!

Dr. W. tested me with the BICOM on the first day of treatment. The machine made a horrid groaning sound (I immediately recognized what sixgoofy was talking about) and the dial barely moved. He told me I had a very heavy load of Borrelliosis and that I had it for 15-20 years. I almost began to weep when he said that...

After 5 photon treatments, he retested me with the BICOM again. This time, the dial was moving into the more normal range, 50-60, and I was only + for D1000 dilution. He gave me a 6th treatment right away, followed, as usual, by IV ozone and then a mineral IV. He felt that this 6th treatment would take care of the last remaining bugs.

I have been back 12 days and have not tried to retest yet.

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GiGi
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Many symptoms that we automatically assume as Lyme caused, are not. Heavy metals, industrial chemicals, biological substances the body reacts to (autoimmune or allergic to ones own) , inherited toxins by ancient infections, and the unresolved inherited conflicts and the conflicts we stashed away unresolved from our present life.

All can cause any pain problem, any neurological problem, any motor dysfunction, any gut problem. None have to do with Lyme, but are very much a part of our overall situation and probably, very possibly are the reasons why Lyme knocked us down so hard.

The Bionic will not solve many of these situations, because they originate at the DNA level, and Bionic does not reach there.
All I can tell you, some remarkable things start to happen once you address the major allergies and the different conditions I mention above.
Much of this is not known to us, but all are directing our life.

At no time did this become more real as when we recently started to do the Allergie Immun therapy. That's when things really start to happen. I will let you know when the signal is "all clear". We are still in the middle of it.
And patience is of essence. It can only be done a few blockages at a time. Otherwise the body would be overwhelmed.

Many people with Lyme who have taken the test come up with some 30plus dysregulations, one of which, alone, can disturb functions anywhere in the body. This is not Lyme. This is a dysfunctional Autonomic Nervous System. No supplement in the world will repair this, yet a few drops of water containing the correct information that is then picked up by the system apparently can. I know it can because we are experiencing it.

The longer we have run on this wrong track, the more problems. All of us have the habit to brush things under the rug rather than fixing them.

Finding the problems and adjusting the polarity is all it takes. Fixing the software.

I liken these problems to hitting a letter on the keyboard, say a "w", and the screen instead will show a "b". Something has gone wrong in the transmission -- a short in the system --- somewhting is wrong in the wiring.

It also can be fixed, but not with the Bionic.

Take care.

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heiwalove
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so GiGi, at this point do you recommend only doing the AI and not making the trek to germany? or are both helpful?

i'm also wondering if everyone who's traveled to germany for bionic treatment thus far has seen dr. W, or if anyone has treated with one of the other bionic therapists. please feel free to pm me if sharing publicly makes you less than comfortable.

thanks!

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heiwalove
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up

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R62
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up
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GiGi
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Heiwalove, I would do AI first before anything else, unless I were in an acute Lyme situation when abx, etc. are needed. I would patiently do the AI and then go from there.

In my opinion, any treatment still necessary after that is much easier and more productive because the allergies do not hold up detoxing.

All AI tests that I have seen so far from people who have or had Lyme are showing allergies to Wheat/Gluten, corn, soy, many mold and fungi, and the major toxic heavy metals, as well as inherited toxins, unresolved present conflicts and a number of inherited conflicts. Added are usual blocked organs, often the thyroid and pancreas, pineal gland, and in some cases some others. There are also blocked areas (average 5) in the spine that are locking up some of the problems until the AI therapy releases these, often related to pain symptoms. (all at DNA level)

It is readily evident that all these block most detox efforts and I don't think it is a good approach to try to go around these problems. They are one of the real reasons we became ill in the first place.

This is how I feel about it and exactly what I would do, especially if I had already spent years trying another route. It has long become obvious to me that all these dysregulations, average 30 plus for any of us who have done the test, are major roadblocks holding up everything else.

Sooner or later, the Bionic treatment will be available here. Maybe it still takes travel.

If I wanted to get Bionic treatment more quickly, I would probably see the therapist or a therapist in Germany who has been wise enough to include AI in her treatment protocol and who is able to treat not only Borrelia, but also the co-infections, as well as treating the conflict situations if any were to arise during the treatment. (That is called Psycho-Kinesiology - PK , a therapy Dr. K. has developed, written a book about, and included in his treatment protocol for many years.)

I saw Dr. K. this weekend at a seminar and the first sentence out of his mouth was "yes, you can't detox any of the metals or substances you are allergic to". He now has a Bionic at his office. And he was quite excited about AI, because he is allergic to gluten himself. Like most of us, he didn't know of this method.

I am sure you can find Bionic treatment soon overhere. It may take some travel.

Let me add here that the longer we sweep these problems under the rug, where the body is forced to stay on the wrong track with one dysregulation added to the next, the longer it takes to clean it up. The younger, the better, because the older body does not have all that many energy reserves left. I pray for my husband. I am doing fine with the AI therapy - but I was the only one in the group so far who did not have any food allergy or inherited toxins. Maybe that was the reason I sailed through Lyme much more quickly.

I had loads of industrial chemical toxins, as everyone else is now finding out. They are searched for in test #2, #3, etc. I forgot to mention these above - and if these are combined with other allergies, you can only imagine what happens if the body is at a loss of what to do with these -- we end up a literal landfill!

If you think you do not have any of these "problems", you will probably change your mind when you get your first test results. I have no doubt, again, that this is the reason we got ill in the first place. This is the world we live in and the one, sadly, we are passing on to our children. Children are now born with wheat and dairy allergies, and many others.

I never cared to take tests that do not also give me a solution to any problems. The best about all here, there is a solution to it - a test and therapy for an affordable price that works and is permanent.

Think it over carefully.

Take care.

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heiwalove
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thanks GiGi. i so appreciate your help and advice, as always. [Smile]

up for anyone else who might have something to add.

also, if anyone is planning on traveling to germany for bionic treatment in the near-ish future, i'd love to know. (i'm still definitely considering it but am not yet sure; i might try AI drops and other, cheaper approaches first.)

again, feel free to pm me! [Smile]

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oxygenbabe
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Heiwa, Selma is doing well with Pe1 and I'm trying to get my friend who runs a small holistic center to buy it, as there is a guy there who has been doing ART type muscle testing with nosodes and homeopathic remedies for 30 years and he's very good. I would like him to learn about photon therapy. They're in Long Island. She is leery about buying a Bionic at this point because it is still unproven and expensive but Pe1 is very reasonable!!!
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UnexpectedIlls
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How can you get the bionic treatment with Dr. K???

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"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
heiwalove
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oxygenbabe, that's super exciting! i'm actually considering saving up for a PE1.. because even if i could afford the trip to germany and treatment with dr. w, there's no way i could also afford to bring a bionic back with me.

can you pm me the name of the muscle testing doc in LI, if you get a chance? i wonder if it's the same guy my friend with lyme sees..

& if in the near-ish future it would be possible to get bionic tx with dr. k, that would be amazing!

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http://www.myspace.com/violinexplosion

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Lymic
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Hi Everyone,

This is my first post here. I'd like to let everyone know that I'm going to try the Bionic 880 treatment on my own here in Toronto, Canada with a machine brought back from a fellow Lyme sufferer. I'll be "on my own" so to speak but will follow a strict detox protocol to minimize the effect of the die-off. Please track my progress on my blog at the address in my signature below.

Anyone else who has recently came back from Germany?

Lymic

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http://lymic-bionic.blogspot.com/

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SForsgren
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Dr. K is not doing bionic treatment on patients at this time. He has patients that have purchased the machine and are using it like myself, but he does not offer it to patients to my knowledge.

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Be well,
Scott

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lymie_in_md
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This is great!!! [woohoo]

Look forward to following your progress Lymic. Good luck. [Big Grin]

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Bob

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ukcarry
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Lymic, all the best to you and do take care: go slowly and don't forget to take plenty of fatty acids whilst on those binders,

Carry

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Lymic
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Thank you all for the well wishes.

Before I decided to proceed with the Bionic, I have a question on my mind which I hope someone here could help shed some light on.

My concern has to do with the Borrelia series nosodes that I got from Deseret Biologicals. Since the nosodes contain the energies for 3 infections (Borrelia, Babesia, Erlichia), and that I only have the Borrelia infection (tested negative on Babesia and Erlichia energetically), I would like to know if it would be safe to use the nosodes with the Bionic 880.

My concern is that I would be sick with Babesia and Erlichia symptoms even though my Borrelia infection would be treated by the Bionic, if I used these nosodes. I know it doesn't seem to make sense (i.e., how could an infection be induced by something external to the body?), but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Any input would be much appreciated! Thank you.

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http://lymic-bionic.blogspot.com/

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sixgoofykids
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Hi Lymic, the Deseret are actually not energetic nosodes, they are derived from the bacteria.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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Lymic
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Six, your PM box is full. Could you please free up some space so I could reply to your PM? Thank you.

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http://lymic-bionic.blogspot.com/

Posts: 25 | From Toronto, Canada | Registered: Mar 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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