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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Bionic 880 thread - promise I won't delete it (Page 13)

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Author Topic: Bionic 880 thread - promise I won't delete it
sixgoofykids
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Doing it now.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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Lymic
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Dear Six,

Thank you so much for your prompt response. What you said is very confidence inspiring -- that Dr. W's patients had the nosode with the European strain of Borrelia and they didn't acquire the strain from it. For me, the more realistic concern would be my previously diagnosed Babesia is actually sitting dormant, which would be "waken up" by the Bionic 880 with these nosodes. That's ok though; I was expecting herx and I'll just try harder with my detox.

In terms of the power level, you advised on my blog that Dr. W. suggested a power level of 25% at the beginning for people without the benefits of the detox IV. How is your daughter doing with that protocol? Did she achieve remission in 6 sessions, or it took longer?

Thanks again Six. Take care.

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http://lymic-bionic.blogspot.com/

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Brussels
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Lymic, why not starting only with borrelia? It is HARD enough to deal with borrelia only!

Can't Desbio make the borrelia nosodes separately?

Anyway, good luck!!!

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Lymic
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Brussels, Desbio only offers nosodes with borrelia, babesia, and erlichia. They don't offer nosodes with borrelia only. [Frown]

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http://lymic-bionic.blogspot.com/

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sixgoofykids
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We all knew going into it that we had to treat coinfections later, that they weren't treated in Germany.

I just found out today that you were making a commission on Bionic 880's from the manufacturer without the knowledge of Dr W ..... I wonder what your financial relationship is to AI. Could your no longer making a commission be affecting your posts here?

I don't have a problem with commissions ... my husband is a salesman ... however, he doesn't go in to make a sale and act like he's not making money.

Dr. W has been a HUGE help and I am almost completely well. For no charge he still answers my emails regarding my treatment. I think that after this round I will no longer have any symptoms as they are clearing up after my third treatment with blood as a nosode. I have not had a flare in two months.

I am grateful for the recommendation from you to Dr. W and the Bionic 880. I just think it's relevant that you made a commission.

I debated with myself whether to post this info or not. I decided to because the Bionic 880 is a GREAT treatment and Dr. W is a huge help and has not misrepresented the treatment at all. He does not claim it to be a miracle or to get rid of all problems in three week's time. I think this is very relevant to people trying to decide to go. I think this information also explains your change of heart regarding the Bionic 880.


quote:
Originally posted by GiGi:
Glad you got the Borrelia behind you and made it back safely, Zombie.

As Scott said, free from Borrelia does not mean we are "free from Lyme" and unless anyone has no co-infections, that statement by the doctor is incorrect. I have told him so once I realized. Sadly, the co-infections are not treated by Dr. W. and I have yet to understand why. We have had to do a lot of treatments after getting home following the treatments in Germany and we are not quite home-free yet doing the Allergie Immun treatments.

As I have mentioned here before and on other threads, I was misinformed by the doctor early last year before we travelled overthere when he told and wrote me that the Bionic880 photons also "take all co-infections out" and also "take the heavy metals out". As it turns out, all of these infections, as well as others and any possible heavy metals need to be treated separately afterward.

We are now working with AI on repairing the damage done to gut (leaky gut) and to nerves, if any, and I pray that we will be successful.

Co-infections are not as common in Germany as they are here, but I now get advice from a couple of naturopaths there for our own treatments at least one of whom also will be treating co-infections once she has the proper nosodes. She happens to be the therapist who recommends to her clients to do the Allergie Immun test/therapy first because it clears out many problems and makes any other treatments easier. She tells me that this makes the overall treatments very successful.

Just want to make it clear that "free of Lyme" for most people with co-infections is not the correct statement. Free of Borrelia, that is a yes.

Take care.



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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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m0joey
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six,

My impression has never been that Gigi had a change of heart about the Bionic, only that she, along with all of us, realized that the Bionic treats one thing at a time. I agree with this particular shift in opinion, and yet that doesn't reduce the effectiveness of the Bionic in my mind.

Time will tell whether the AI becomes the preferred first line of treatment. According to energetic testing both done by me and my practitioners, that seems to be the case so far and my second round of drops has caused an even bigger reaction than the first round.

I remain optimistic about this therapy.

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sixgoofykids
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I don't think using salespeople has any bad reflection at all on a company or the quality of their product. As I mentioned, sales puts the food on my table.

I just think full disclosure is needed. A sales pitch is quite different from a testimonial.

We all knew before that the Bionic was not going to treat coinfections. And I know you particularly have had AMAZING results from the AI drops.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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m0joey
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If there is any disclosure to be made, i believe gigi will address appropriately. I think we should refrain from jumping to any conclusions until that time.
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sixgoofykids
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quote:
Originally posted by m0joey:
If there is any disclosure to be made, i believe gigi will address appropriately. I think we should refrain from jumping to any conclusions until that time.

Good point.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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GiGi
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Wow. I seem to remember that I had been accused of all this in the middle of last year when I first got excited about the Bionic. I told you then in one of these threads that certainly, if I were to receive an offer that was worth my while I would consider it, that I would tell about it here and that I would then stop posting on Lymenet. I would like to assure you that such an offer has never materialized, and would also like to tell you that I have never been financially rewarded by any other source about whom I posted, be it Dr. K., the Gaestehaus, the local Dobel grocer, the Aldi, nor the German car rental; Nor do I get paid by AI or any practitioner from whom I gain information. It is the opposite, I pay for the time any practitioner give me when I ask their advice as a patient would. Much of this advice has been passed on to everyone on this board who cares to have it.

But this is a splendid opportunity for me to kill my ``addiction to Lymenet in order to help people'' (as my husband calls it), and I will therefore no longer post on this site.

Good luck and may you all be well.

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seekhelp
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Why not a simple reply without defensiveness? 99% of posters here thank you for your help. Someone comes up with something and you can't just give an honest legitimate reply w/o blowing up and saying you're gone forever and tough break everyone? That doesn't sound like a mission to help people. It sounds like you're letting your ego get hurt honestly.

If's it not true, well it's not true. We never were told how the poster discovered the commission issue. No questions about that? I'd sure want to know. If the statement is true, well, that'a different story and anyone has a right to be very upset as it just wouldn't ethically be right. There are many sick people desperate for help. Even if it's the greatest cure since sliced bread, patients have a right to know who is getting compensated behind the scenes. Why do you think the ISDA issues / conflict of interest issues remain?

Lastly, I thought your husband was quite ill. Wouldn't he benefit from knowledge others here share too? THere's power in numbers. Why blow that?

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heiwalove
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GiGi has received a lot of flack and personal attacks on this site over the years so i understand her position of defensiveness. i've no idea of the truth surrounding these accusations but i have known GiGi through lymenet, personal email, and even over the phone for four years and have always thought her to be a person of great integrity. this just doesn't make sense to me and the whole situation saddens me greatly. i dearly hope GiGi reconsiders and returns to lymenet, as i think she's an invaluable asset to the site and the community here.

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lymie_in_md
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I agree with Heiwalove, thanks H. well put. Gigi please reconsider your position.

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Bob

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oxygenbabe
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Well I hate to say it but this makes sense. Gigi went from *so* high on the Bionic as the absolute cure, to utter silence about it, and then began posting about AI and doing that instead.

I understand this was from a personal communication with Dr. W----I would guess it's true.

Moreover, Gigi doesn't actually deny it. " I would like to assure you that such an offer has never materialized, and would also like to tell you "

Perhaps this is carefully worded language. "I would like to assure you...and would also like to tell you..." is simply stating a wish.

It is not actually a denial.

Which does not mean that Bionic doesn't work. But I think trying Lightworks or PE1 which Selma has had success with may be a more financially feasible idea.

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sixgoofykids
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I CAN assure you the Bionic does work. [Smile]

I am grateful to have found out about it from GiGi ..... I really, truly am. I am almost 100% better. [Smile]

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NanaDubo
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Ditto - it works as does Allergie-Immun. I could leave no stone unturned in terms of getting rid of lyme and then addressing how I could have gotten so ill in the first place.

I am grateful to Gigi for sharing about both of these things.

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SForsgren
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I am amazed at how quickly people are to judge. GiGi has been nothing but wonderful to people here in sharing information freely for years.

I agree with heiwalove - GiGi has more integrity than most people I have ever met. Even if she did receive some commission, what difference would it make. She went to Germany and spent a lot of money to treat herself and her husband and then shared the tool with dozens in the US.

If she got some benefit from that, I personally do not care. As one of the people that did go to Germany for the treatment, I am still pleased that I went and that has not changed.

I think people would be better spending their energies to focus on getting well than to attempt to attack someone with limited to no information on what may be the reality here.

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Scott

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Lymic
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I agree that GiGi has been a great help. Even though I only joined LymeNet days ago, but I have ready through the entire 12 pages of this thread and my conclusion is that GiGi is a wonderful lady who has a huge heart to help others. If GiGi decides to leave this board, it will be a huge loss to all of us.

I really hope GiGi would not leave due to the comments of a few that are not even close to representing the sentiment of the group.

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R62
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I dont think people are wanting to attack. I think they are confused. I'm sorry for all of this. I know it hurts Gigi and I know people are so frightened. I think we can have some compassion for all of us. I dont know how the thread started or why.. I do know it is not healthy to not be able to question when you have concerns. I also know when someone puts themselves out to help others, that it hurts to feel attacked. I dont think anyone intends that either. I think its concern and miscommunication.
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seekhelp
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Scott,

It's not an issue of effectiveness or not or the person's character or not. You're missing the point.

It's an issue of people perhaps giving up their life savings to go to Germany based on feedback from a well-respected person. Knowing if the person is compensated for the sale of equipment is a factor in anyone's decision. Keep in mind, one factor. It's not being judgmental, it's wanting facts and disclosure.

If I went there and cured myself, I would be nothing but grateful. Sixgoofykids never once said the treatment didn't work. It's an ethical point she's making. I agree the story does need to be told by all sides. We're not talking pocket change here - $10,000+ for a trip! Let's be real.

It seems impossible the original poster would want to do something bad when she has done nothing but praise the treatment and the person for recommending.

The apparent dramatic change in recommendation of the Bionic 880 to hardly mentioning it is impossible not to miss. Now it could be the other option is so so much better that it's the correct choice after new opportunities were discovered. Things change and we understand that. Today's miracle or best treatment protocol fortunately is not static.

I'm not on a sales site Scott. I'm here to learn more about health and get others' opinions and help however I can when able. I expect the same from others here. Is this attitude so wrong?

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Alv
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I agree with SForsgren: " Even if she did receive some commission, what difference would it make. She went to Germany and spent a lot of money to treat herself and her husband and then shared the tool with dozens in the US.

If she got some benefit from that, I personally do not care."


Yes NANADUDO , I am grateful too that GIGI has shared this information with us and I respect her for that and still will in the future.

[ 03-06-2009, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: Alv ]

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steelbone
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Didnt read all of this. But hey if she is making a little money then trying things like AI because she has a bit of extra money I personally think thats great.

AI is now helping people..Thats pretty good if u ask me

She is one smart women. SHe post some of the most detailed post you will ever see...

Thanks for all you have done and continue to do Gigi [Smile]

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Paul
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The harder you work the luckier you get!

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sixgoofykids
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quote:
Originally posted by seekhelp:

If I went there and cured myself, I would be nothing but grateful. Sixgoofykids never once said the treatment didn't work. It's an ethical point she's making.

Thank you. I mean no malice. [Smile]

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seekhelp
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I won't comment anymore on this thread. My point is I respect her advice, I'd be happy to even pay for services to a person who educated theirselves immensely to try to get well, etc. It's nothing personal. It's not a character attack in any way. My ONLY concern is ANYONE getting revenue from services they recommend to another and the second party being oblivious to this aspect. If I think my doc is getting kickbacks from a drug company, it bothers me. I'm not stupid - yes I know they do. Same idea.

Everyone's got their own opinions, ideas, morals, etc. I respect that too. I wish everyone the best.

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SForsgren
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With the amount of money that she and her husband spent, they would never come close to making anything near that even if they did get some compensation. So that clearly is not a good business arrangement and certainly not one that in my opinion would color her recommendations.

I have benefited from the photon therapy in my opinion and in that of my practitioners. If I felt that what was being discussed might not be useful and was only suggested to make money, that is a different issue.

I still use the device. I still feel it provided good benefit. Though it has not solved all problems, I am still using it and still expect to see improvements. Being off antibiotics for 5 months now is alone a miracle to me and no setbacks thus far....only progress.

Does anyone here KNOW that GiGi was compensated? I am not jumping to conclusions.

If GiGi were making money from the sales of the device and not disclosing that while all the time still promoting it here on Lymenet, I agree that would be an inappropriate thing to do. Even in that event, I still appreciate what I learned from her and many people I believe would agree.

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Be well,
Scott

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sixgoofykids
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quote:
Originally posted by SForsgren:

Does anyone here KNOW that GiGi was compensated? I am not jumping to conclusions.

I guess it's Dr. W's word against hers.

I'm not going to give any more information about the email from Dr. W here ... my intent is not character assassination, rather to let people know it looks like money is involved.

And to let them know Dr. W is a GREAT doctor who developed this treatment. He is a help even after leaving Germany and truly cares about his patients. No one ever said everything would be healed in 3 weeks, that's why we all brought the machine back.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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sparkle7
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Well, my character was assassinated by GiGi on more occasion than one for trying to look into alternatives to spending $10,000 or more on this therapy...

She ridiculed me & said very offensive things to me. I really couldn't understand it. We're all here to try to get well, right?

I don't wish anyone any harm. It just made no sense to me why she would cut into me so severely for looking info less expensive ways to get similar results.

Now it all makes sense.

She maybe "shared" all of her wealth of knowledge - but it was for an agenda. I read many of her posts & learned things but she's not a doctor.

Her experience was maybe good for her. There are no blanket cures for Lyme. Not everyone has to deal with the same issues or has the same genetics.

So, if Dr. K or Dr. W came up with a protocol for her, it wouldn't necessarily be suitable for others. GiGi may be an authority figure for herself but not for everyone. She set herself up as that here & people believed in her.

Seems like it may have been a front... I don't have any problem with people selling things & making a living. This is not the place for it.

If Dr. W is saying that she made a commission from the Bionic 880 company, it's pretty serious. He's a doctor with a reputation to consider.

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UnexpectedIlls
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I think this is pretty serious myself... I don't understand why people are making light of this situation?

Don't you see... Some are not very lucky to go to Germany, we do not have the money or resources yet it was made to sound like our miracle cure and if we couldn't get it then TOO bad for us.

I have gone out of my mind trying to find ways to get to Germany because I felt it was now my ONLY way out of this hell. I felt terrible because I was not the lucky one to be able to go.

Then all of a sudden the bionic was not useful anymore and you HAD to have the AI treatment... C'mon people.

Dr. W was made to sound like a god and now he is being made to look like the liar... but WHO is the liar?

This is NOT about someone sharing information.. this is about someone getting kickbacks from sick and desperate people for a treatment that may very well not work for most. Yet it is put out there that it IS the answer, the 3 week cure... I think THAT is serious.

I am sure now everyone will dog on me, and thats fine... I am just stating my opinion,... one that I have been to scared to voice for fear of being outcast.

Yes gigi does have some great information, and it seems she spends a lot of energy on her posts... but with this new information it is hard not to think that all of it was for $$.

It is obvious to me that bionic helps people... but the truth should have been stated from the very beginning... now how do we know that this wasn't started to make money in the first place? we are a pretty big venue.

Peace & Wellness

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"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

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zombie_mummy
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I have also received the email re: GiGi from Dr. W.

I don't want to say too much more about it. I'm just pretty dismayed and confused by it all right now...

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NanaDubo
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I appreciate sixgoofy looking out for everyone here. She has always had positive things to say about Gigi and continues to even on this page.

Sorry Sparkle but it is not a front. You can read on this page and in the past how many of us benefited and are close to or completely well from being in his care.

As Scott said - "If GiGi were making money from the sales of the device and not disclosing that while all the time still promoting it here on Lymenet, I agree that would be an inappropriate thing to do. Even in that event, I still appreciate what I learned from her and many people I believe would agree".

I believe that is all sixgoofy was saying.

I have spent countless hours on the phone with Gigi and regardless of what some may think, she does truly care about the people here.

She has gained a lot of knowledge over the years and shared it with us.

So yes, Sixgoofy and Scott are correct, disclosure would be appropriate and still, I am grateful to her.

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n.northernlights
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Please do not jump to conclusions too quickly.
I posted something about photon treatment on a forum in europe, and someone answered and warned everyone that the bionic was scam and scott was a well-known swindler and that he is behind the biophoton scam.....(with links to a thread about scott on LNE, and that LN USA is absolutely full of marketing scams or something like that, and wondering what commissions Tincup is getting from the marketing scams....)

Now I did not believe any of that, as I had followed this forum for a long time, and some of those that went , for quite some time before.
On LNE there are whole threads about gigi and scott and bionic being a fraud and that looking at lyme i na microscope is a fraud (the story about the Bradford microscope)
Note that on most lyme forums in Europe, it is not allowed to post about almost anything alternative, there is only one or two forums where they don't throw rocks at you. Antibiotics only.
Please do not jump to any conclusions, since there is so much nonsense floating around on the net. In my country it is a crime to call others for swindlers without them having been actually convicted.
My interests in alternative treatments: I am getting some treatments, and find them useful.

Added: I totally believe in Scott and Gigi, and everyone who went to Germany and posted.
I feel sad that others attack them, and frighten others from trying alternative or wholistic treatments. But there is so much negativity (especially about Gigi and Scott, for some reason) floating around on european forums that some misinformation is bound to reach even Dr. W. I think. Just thinking.

[ 03-06-2009, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: n.northernlights ]

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sixgoofykids
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Thank you Nana. Even if I had known, I STILL would have gone and bought a machine. I am grateful, very grateful, to have had this treatment. I never in my wildest dreams thought I would get to this level of functionality ever again without some kind of maintenance abx.

I don't think GiGi ever had anything but good intentions. I truly believe that. My husband is in sales, and he only represents products he believes in. He won't sell something he thinks is an inferior product. So, I have no question that GiGi just had people's health in mind.

Thank you Nana, you have summed up my thoughts exactly. Obviously, those of us who have gone, who are upset about the email we received, are STILL grateful and STILL praising the treatment and thanking the source.

--------------------
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sixgoofykids
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quote:
Originally posted by n.northernlights:
scott was a well-known swindler adn that he is behind the biophoton scam.....

I can vouch for Scott. He is a GREAT guy, a GREAT friend, and NOT a swindler. He has tried many, many different treatments, chronicled them, just with the intent to share with us. He discloses when he is making a profit (you can confirm this by going to his website).

I can say first hand that in the Lyme community it is difficult to share when you try things outside the ILADS norms .... and Scott has bravely shared in order to help others ... and has been attacked for it.

I understand your post was not saying he was ..... but this type of thing has been said here at times as well, so I wanted to stand up for him.

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SForsgren
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Going to Germany cost me about $15,000 and I have no affiliation with Dr. W or any profit made from the Bionic.

All in all, my trip was productive and I am still to this day glad that I went.

The greatest part of it is being off of all RX antimicrobials now for 5 months! I never thought that would happen. I am not 100% symptom free, but I am doing quite well.

--------------------
Be well,
Scott

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sixgoofykids
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Oh yeah, I forgot to say, and I know for a fact he has not made money of the Bionic! That was the main point of my last post!

I'm down to ONE symptom ... two if you count that I'm not yet weaned off Ambien completely and haven't balanced my thyroid yet, which might be contributing to not being off Ambien yet.

--------------------
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bejoy
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Just wanted to mention to light users:

I've been using Systemic Drainage from Desbio along with nosodes, and I'm really happy with it.

I put it in a clear vial, and use it next to the nosode. It really keeps the lymph drained, and herx away.

TMI allert, I notice good drainage by the quality and certain chemical odor with a good movement.

The only problem is that this remedy keeps me drinking and peeing all night sometimes right after I use it.

I hope this info may help somebody.

I'm sure there are lots of good products out there. I got the catalog and test kit from this company, and have studied it like my life depends on it (because I think it does.) So this is the one I know well and can talk about.

Interesting to note, the new medical director of this company used to be the director for HEEL.

I also want to note, I find that the Lightworks does work wonders when used with nosodes, but the amount of time, study, knowledge and experience it has taken me to make this work well is beyond significant.

I am getting well on a deep level with it, but I am studying practicing, dousing, experimenting no less than two hours a day, along with many years experience behind me.

If you have the money to go to Germany, I still recommend it. Nothing beats going to an experienced trained professional, and equipment that has stood the test of time with this protocol. If not, the do-it-yourself approach may be worth a try.

I am so happy for those of you who are getting better!! Here's to a lyme-free future.

--------------------
bejoy!

"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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sixgoofykids
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Bejoy, do you think using blood would accomplish this drainage? I am treating with blood right now. I accidently used 100% power the second time I used it and it made me loopy for a few hours, BUT it's really diminishing my last remaining symptom.

I get a massage from a guy who knows lymphatic drainage techniques. I used to feel horrible the rest of the day starting a couple hours after the massage, but last time I did not.

I don't herx from the Bionic anymore .... so, I am wondering if you think those would be a help to me or not. Thanks for your input.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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m0joey
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I can also vouch for gigi and scott. Both of them have been immensely helpful, even with things that have nothing whatsoever to do with the Bionic and AI.

I understand what immediately comes to mind when we hear the word "commission." We think of the corrupt doctors aligned with big pharma, the snake oil salesmen, MLM companies etc. But I think we should have some common sense about all of this:

The point of contention isn't her jumping off the Bionic bandwagon. The only change of opinion she had was about whether the bionic treats all co-infections and metals. Paul, you're right, Gigi is one smart woman, but she'd have to be an outright fool to make the claim that the Bionic treats co-infections & metals without having a reason to say so. Esp in light of the fact that all of us would soon be going to Germany and prove or disprove veracity of what she said. To me, the likely explanation is miscommunication--not saying it was Dr. W or anyone else in particular that was responsible. After all, we must've expected there to be much trial and error along the way with such a novel treatment. As we go along and more patients get the treatment, we narrow down the realities of what this machine can do.

To construe Gigi no longer posting on the Bionic thread as her saying it doesn't work is just puzzling to me. She seem to have posted more than anyone else about most things on this forum, and I think we all take for granted just how much time and energy it takes to keep it up continuously. We all come and go, but now we're using this "commission" accusation to explain her ... not posting as much as usual?

From all the non-Bionic related help that gigi has given me since I first joined lymenet a short time ago, I cannot possibly imagine that someone with her generous and compassionate spirit could knowingly overhype the Bionic's efficacy by that much and ever live it down. That of course, is just my opinion.

All I have to say is I feel 10x better now than before I left for Germany. What gigi has said about the AI being more important than the Bionic has corresponded to energetic testing I have both done myself and received. Compared to the thousands I was spending on supplements with no apparent gain before, I can say with 20/20 hindsight that buying the machine was worth every penny. The AI is doing a number on my body now, and the 400 euros for the entire treatment from beg to end is a relative drop in the bucket if the changes keep coming at this pace for me.

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Lymic
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Hi bejoy, do you know for a fact that it is necessary to transfer the Desbio nosodes from their brown vials to clear ones in order for the Bionic treatments to be effective?

So were you saying you put both the drainage nosodes and the borrelia nosodes together on your solar plexus for the Bionic treatments?

Thank you.

--------------------
http://lymic-bionic.blogspot.com/

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sixgoofykids
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I did not transfer mine to a clear vial. I still felt they worked and so did my daughter. If the light were shining through the vials, I would think it's necessary. When energetic testing, things are left in the containers .... since the energetic information is what we are getting from the vials, I figured it didn't matter if it was clear or brown glass.

I don't know for sure, but that's my take on it. I have seen improvement from the brown vials.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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bejoy
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Lymic,

In my experience it does make a difference to use a clear vial rather than brown glass.

Yes, currently I put it in a glass vial on the solar plexus next to the nosode. Others note that different things work for them with homeopathics.

I have also found that it works for me to take the substance directly under the tongue rather than putting it in the vial.

Muscle testing, dousing, or biotensor could help you answer this question for yourself, or you could just try it and see what works.

Six,

I think blood can do lots of things. Usually I can't use even urine in a vial as a nosode, myself. It still contains too much information for me. I have not tried blood yet for this reason.

I'm still treating myself for low levels of Borrellia Garinii, Babesia Microti, Mycobacterium TB, and assorted fungals. I'm feeling better than ever, but know their still in there, and I'm not going to let them get the best of me again!

It is possible that blood may help with drainage. I do not know.

I like the systemic drainage product because it targets drainage of all the organs specifically, without overloading the system with information about allergies, pathogens, hormones, etc, etc, as an autonosode might do.

So, if what you want is specifically drainage, I'd go for a drainage remedy.

DB also has a lymph drainage that I like, but I like Systemic better.

--------------------
bejoy!

"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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bejoy
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Six, simultaneous posting...

I have used brown bottles and found they worked. I just find that clear usually tests as better. In the end, if something works for you, it works!

I think Ergopathics.com sells emptly clear vials, for those who want them.

--------------------
bejoy!

"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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m0joey
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the brown vials didn't work nearly as effectively for me.
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jl123
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"No one ever said everything would be healed in 3 weeks, that's why we all brought the machine back."

Yes but here is my problem. How can people use the Bionic as effectively here in the US without doing the same treatment that DR. W does?? Which is
live vials of lyme??? Is there something I'm missing here? Isn't that the best way to assure that lyme is erradicated from ones body??

Thanks, JL

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Lymic
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Hi Six and Bejoy, thank you for your input on the issue on brown/clear vials.

The reason I asked is because, the clear vials I got are the ones that doctors use for injections. As such, they're quite a bit "fatter" than the brown ones that came from Desbio. When I put the clear vials on my solar plexus, they pretty much formed a belt going from below my left chest to below my right chest. I don't know if that would be the idea setup. The brown vials in comparison are much skinnier, so they could all be placed relatively close to the center of my body.

I would appreciate your thoughts on that. Thank you.

--------------------
http://lymic-bionic.blogspot.com/

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zombie_mummy
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quote:
Originally posted by jl123:
Yes but here is my problem. How can people use the Bionic as effectively here in the US without doing the same treatment that DR. W does?? Which is
live vials of lyme??? Is there something I'm missing here? Isn't that the best way to assure that lyme is erradicated from ones body??

Having been through the treatment myself, I feel fairly certain that it could be replicated here in N. America with the right doctor. An integrative LLMD who is local to me is VERY interested in photon therapy. He already does energetic testing, ozone blood therapy, nutritional IVs...

Nosodes are readily available here for Bb and co. Once the bacterial load has been lowered using nosodes, saliva, urine and blood can then be used to take care of the rest. It will just take a bit longer to treat without the live Bb agent.

IF you can find a practitioner to do the supportive therapies (ie. ozone), it SHOULD be possible to have the therapy here IMHO.

--------------------
"Be it, don't dream it." -Dr. Frank-N-Furter

http://www.lymefriends.com/profile/zombie_mummy

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m0joey
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JL,

even if you use the live vials, that is no guarantee that the lyme will be eradicated. Lyme stays with us forever. What enables it to return is dysregulation in our bodies, dysfunctional immune systems etc. I used the live vials at Dr. W's, and I have reason to believe I still have lyme, albeit heavily reduced from before.

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jl123
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Zombie thanks for the advice...

Joey,

I agree with you that it stays. But let us not forget that that WAS the method that eradicated the most lyme from you. I think it could only help you more by eventually (between what-ever other treatments- AI, you are doing) going back to that method. And surly there has to be a way to get live vials. Use what works best, and if DR. W says that is what works best then??? JL

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SForsgren
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I don't think that "eradicated" was used. For me he said "you have lost your lyme". Even Dr. W says it is likely a mix of the immune system getting rid of bugs and us being able to no longer have the remaining bugs cause damage to our bodies. I am not sure that it can be fully "eradicated". It can be "addressed".

--------------------
Be well,
Scott

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bejoy
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As far as live borrelia goes, I wonder if energetically it might be the same as a mother tincture:

"For example, when making a homeopathic remedy which is of plant or animal nature the extract--which is a soluble substances--is dissolved in a mixture of alcohol and water (approximately ninety percent pure alcohol and ten percent distilled water (the ratio can vary).

Then this mixture is set aside for two to four weeks. It is periodically shaken and then is press strained once it has cured. This yields a remedy referred to as a "mother tincture."

The mother tincture is diluted to produce different remedy potencies. To do this you use one of two scales: the decimal (x) and the centesimal (c). And an alcohol/water mixture is used for dilution in various stages.

Between each of the stages of dilution, the diluted tincture is succussed (shaken vigorously). Also, the decimal scale dilution factor is 1:10 and in the centesimal it is 1:100."

I don't know if a nosode made directly from the pathogen is "better" or more effective than one computer generated. I would think it would be, but then again, when I recieve an email that has been forwarded a thousand times, the information is still the same. Hard to say.

I have used remedies produced the conventional way from the original substance, and those made from a computer generated vial.

Specifically, I have made a potentised treatment series from the Ergopathics testers "mother tincture strength" for Borrelia Garinii, since I have not found a series made from the actual pathogen.

The DB series I have used is very good, but doesn't have this strain of Borrelia, and apparently didn't clear it. (I beleive I had at least two strains of lyme borrelia to start out.)

My point is, you may be able to get what you are looking for energetically in a live vial by ordering a mother tincture or a tester vial from someplace. Could be wrong, but it makes sense to me.

--------------------
bejoy!

"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Brussels
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I don't know what happened and who started talking about Gigi's earning commissions... I really don't care if she earned a bit here and there... She's not becoming rich because of that, you all can be sure. Her commitment to lymenet is not paying her bills!!

There are other practioners in Germany proposing people to do AI, and these are good practioners. And you can do AI totally independent from them all, no one has to say you got a recommendation.

Without Gigi, I was never going to be trying photons with homeopathics, possibly no one on this board would be on this trip. This is something amazing, I could barely imagine possible before I heard from the Bionic.

And this photon treatment saved my almost 2 decade old skin infection that almost handicapped me. Nothing I tried before put that in remission!

Without Gigi, I was never going to have seen dr. K's practioners and would very probably be DEAD for lack of TREATMENT. She saved my life when she told me who I could see because they gave me treatment and they found me in a very bad state. With their treatment, I improved A LOT.

Without Gigi, I believe dr. K. wouldn't have heard about the Bionic until now. Nor all the practioners that follow dr. K. here in Europe, they knew nothing about it last year in May, and now everyone around is talking about it.

She earned nothing from me, nor from the practioners she recommended who were thousands of miles away from her home. I couldn't remember Gigi's real name when I went to practioners she recommended, so I couldn't even tell who sent me to them (loads of brain fog ...)

What now I think photons can do is due to her, she found out that first.

She still recommended me to see dr. W. and she knows I won't buy the machine as there are quite a lot of practioners in Switzerland using it, so I can use their machines.

I have my life back, and I owe it in MOST part to Gigi. If I had to just use the doctors around here, I would be dead, I really think so.

Please, don't go out Gigi!!

Without Gigi, lymenet loses a great asset.

I hope you don't stop posting!

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sixgoofykids
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quote:
Originally posted by jl123:
"No one ever said everything would be healed in 3 weeks, that's why we all brought the machine back."

Yes but here is my problem. How can people use the Bionic as effectively here in the US without doing the same treatment that DR. W does?? Which is
live vials of lyme??? Is there something I'm missing here? Isn't that the best way to assure that lyme is erradicated from ones body??

Thanks, JL

You have to remember also, when you get to the point where you can safely use blood, it's going to have all the information you need. [Smile]

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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SForsgren
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I agree that we lose a lot if she leaves but honestly, I hope she goes. This environment is not healthy and she has plenty more to do in her life than to continue to take what is dished out to her here on Lymenet.

--------------------
Be well,
Scott

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oxygenbabe
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But Selma, suppose people can use your PE1 for $1100 instead of a Bionic for $8000? Gigi had an enormous influence on people when she insisted on the superiority of the Bionic. We want as many people healed as possible. Bejoy is having success with the $250 Lightworks. So is Sparkle.

This all matters. Not everybody is healthy or wealthy enough to go to Germany. Some people are on SSDI. Some may be able to scrape together $1100 and some money for homeopathics, but not $15,000 (total of what Scott said he spent).

It hurts people who believe that a person is not influenced at all by a commission, if that person is insisting that the most expensive machine is the only one that really works.

She DID do everybody an enormous good by finding the therapy and getting people interested in this approach.

I understand what you are saying and I am glad you learned from her, so you could do PE1. I think that is more feasible for many of us.

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pigwit
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I don't know that much about the 880, but appreciate Gigi's information about it.

I believe that her posts on other topics has helped me make my life better. I really appreciate her.

Pigwit

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SForsgren
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I think many of us wanted something that was proven in over 2000 patients. The PE1 might be a good tool, I don't know. But the Bionic is not a simple treatment and it takes working with the doctor to do it right. For me, I wanted something that has already been worked out. Good luck to PE1 folks. I hope you do find that it works.

I still KNOW that GiGi would never push a machine due to $$. Period. I have no doubt. If she thought the PE1 or the xyz machine for 1000 worked the same, I bet anything that she would have saved her own money in going to do the photons. She did it because she believed that it would work.

--------------------
Be well,
Scott

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Brussels
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And me too, I am telling people that want a good and effective treatment, not to do any other machine or own protocol, but go for what is 'tested'!

I'm sure it worths, if one is able to afford for that. Just see the people who came back. And there are others that don't post here, the Bionic brings amazing results!

We, doing the PE1 or the LW, are only TESTING things we have no real idea of the outcome. The numbers are so limited compared to dr. W's patients, and we're learning the hard way, I find (trial and error!).

Only now I start to really believe my lyme will go dormant again, but who knows for how long?

I think I'll still go to dr. W. myself to check my lyme stage and my daughter's. If we still need to do the Bionic, I don't know, but I think he's the reference.

I understand the lack of money issues for most lyme sufferers, that is why I post what I'm doing.

We all know Gigi for a long time, when she believes something, she'll move the earth to make that happen. She did that with chlorella, with muscle tests, with rechtsregulat, with d-galaktose, psychokinesiology (PK), tapping, metal detox etc etc.

She had always behaved the same way in the things she believed. The PK is one example, root canals another. What the hell did she gain from pushing us all to treat our root canals with such a passion? Nothing. That's where you'll find the greatest numbers of her posts. That's her way.

We're big enough to decide for our lives and our finances, even if brain fogged.

The people who went didn't regret, right? They came back saying it worthed. Most, if not all, said it is even 'cheaper' when they compared what they spent with other treatments, because of the results.

So it did work, right? Or am I missing something?

Posts: 6196 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
lymie_in_md
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We have such a novel approach to treating lyme. Yet we can't organize a simple test amongst us to find a way to do what Dr. W. did with possibly superior technology.

I'm convinced the SLED technology is superior to the LEDs used in the bionic.

A simple test, 10 folks using a PE1 supervised by an LLND in a specific area to see how many feel they got better and to what degree. It doesn't have to be an expensive 100 million dollar study. Just good old observation.

Its cheaper, its supervised, it has the possibility to help those that can't afford it.

I still have hopes this can occur in Maryland and I'm seeing a wonderful LLND right now. So I'm hoping its a matter of time.

If we could find a cheap way out of this disease, we could stop soooo much suffering.

--------------------
Bob

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sparkle7
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I was deeply hurt when GiGi ridiculed me for trying to experiment with the information she was posting. She insulted me in a way that seemed to make anyone with not enough resources (ie: money) to follow her, feel very hurt.

If you have never been without money in your life - you wouldn't be able to understand how hurtful it was to have her addressing me it that manner. I think I can safely say others felt the grief about this, too.

To say that everyone has a mercury problem or everyone should treat the same things she has problems with is misleading. We are all different. We each need to focus on our individual issues.

It doesn't matter to me if someone is making money from selling products. It should be revealed. I was severely ridiculed for even making an inquiry about this.

I was going through 2 recent deaths in my family & severe financial issues. I really didn't need to read GiGi's insults towards me at that time.

I appreciate that she shared information with us. It's just that it's suspect to me what the agenda was or might have been. Do these things go further than just the Bionic 880? Does it matter? I thought this was supposed to be a forum for support... not insulting people who may have another point of view.

I though this was a place for people to "share" information... not capitalize on it.

I would have preferred to be supporting people who share their information & experiences. If GiGi did not come down on me so harshly, I would be supporting her now. It just wasn't the case for me, though.

I'm not really sure what she was expecting to receive from posting her information other than to share & help people. I don't know why some people were treated with bitterness & ridicule by her & others are devoted followers.

I don't know what Dr. W has e-mailed to patients or why.

It's all very strange to me... I would probably just ignore all of this if it wasn't personal to me.

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Cass A
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Dear Friends,

First, we don't have access to accurate, verified data. Sixgoofykids and someone else say they have an email from Dr. W, but don't post it. I don't know if Dr. W sold the Bionic 880, or if it had to be bought directly from the manufacturer, so I don't know if he has personal $$ data on commissions, because he paid them, or not.

So, in my opinion, it is the responsibility of the person who puts out the information to verify it and have it documented or have other proof that can be shown to others.

Without that, we get what we now have--lots of flack, upset people, and no possible resolution.

The next gradient, supposing such proof or documentation was actually gotten, would be to confront the person involved privately. Gigi has posted her private email enough times for this to be relatively easy to do.

As has been posted on this thread,

"We all know Gigi for a long time, when she believes something, she'll move the earth to make that happen. She did that with chlorella, with muscle tests, with rechtsregulat, with d-galaktose, psychokinesiology (PK), tapping, metal detox etc etc.

"She had always behaved the same way in the things she believed. The PK is one example, root canals another. What the hell did she gain from pushing us all to treat our root canals with such a passion? Nothing. That's where you'll find the greatest numbers of her posts. That's her way."

I have watched what she has posted about, observed other people trying those things, and have seen their reports of good results. I have tried some of these treatments myself, and been pleased with the outcomes of the ones I've decided to try.

I also agree that if someone is receiving financial compensation for any treatment or protocol or product that they should disclose it.

At this point, there is NO PROOF OR DOCUMENTATION being provided. So, much as I appreciate Sixgoofykids, I must relegate her "disclosure" to RUMOR. And, I request that she take the responsiblity to a) get documentation, one way or the other, that others can be allowed to view in the original version and b) share that with GiGi before doing anything else with it.

Since her recommendations have helped you so much, Six, you really should do no less.

Love,

Cass A

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oxygenbabe
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I disagree, Cass A. Several patients of Dr. W say they have received an email to this effect. There is no reason to believe they would invent this fact, or that Dr. W would invent this fact. It makes no sense.

I think though we just have to move on now. Six and others have said the Bionic helped. And a few others have the PE1 and Lightworks.

Bob is right--we should try to find a way to evaluate if the cheaper devices, esp PE1, work. That is in a price range that practitioners and patients can afford.

That is why I want to get the PE1 to the clinic in Long Island, to a man who has already used nosodes, homeopathy, and ART testing for 30 years.

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seekhelp
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I said I wouldn't comment anymore, but...Cass makes sense here. If Dr. W is OK with disclosure (which I assume he is given he's told multiple people), it seems reasonable to post.

If the e-mail has other person info not appropriate to show, I'm sure users would understand partial deletion out of respect for privacy.

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sixgoofykids
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I do not think the email should be posted because it has other information in it that the masses don't need to know. It would be pure gossip for me to post the entire email. Besides, who's to say I didn't edit it? You are receiving this information second hand, I received it first hand. If you think I tell the truth, then that's enough. I've revealed my source and others have confirmed that what I say is true.

All I am saying is that Dr. W sent me an email, that he confirmed it with the manufacturer that she was receiving a commission.

I have no problem with people making money off something, I have a problem with not disclosing it.

GiGi has been a BIG help to me. I don't deny that. I just don't think that people should be canceling their appts to Dr. W now ..... he's a good doctor and a good person.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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METALLlC BLUE
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quote:

But this is a splendid opportunity for me to kill my ``addiction to Lymenet in order to help people'' (as my husband calls it), and I will therefore no longer post on this site.

Good luck and may you all be well.

I don't think I've ever once responded in one of these threads. The primary reason: Drama. I feel it's important now however as losing a good member isn't in our best interest, nor hers.

Gigi, quite often when I see you responding in threads, I often feel you're the unnecessary victim of falling on your own sword. I often feel that you take offense needlessly.

When someone "takes" offense, it means they literally had to "take" it -- to be offended. You've got immense intelligence based on my observation , yet I also feel you lack the emotional intelligence to execute coping with personal challenges, attacks, criticism, or -- .....disagreements in a social setting (at least here anyway).

Here is some advice I follow. Maybe you'll find it useful.

If I really don't have time to answer a question, then I simply don't. I feel no "rush" no "guilt" and no frustration when thousands of people message me for help and I can't keep up. I'm just one more advocate/activist. I'm not the only one. If you feel someone is attacking you, ponder carefully whether anything they're saying is relevant. If it is, address it honestly while calm and collected. If it's not, discard it and ignore it. I treat "all insult, criticism, attack -- anything" -- the same way. I ask myself "Is there anything constructive here that I can use to improve? Have I made an error, is amends necessary?" If I react and return fire, the consequence is nearly universally the same -- it escalates. Is that what our intention is? Is that serving us?

If someone "is" trying to insult me, maybe I answer them, maybe I don't. I don't accept the invite to every fight, argument or challenge that is presented to me.

You're a very strong willed woman that -- like all of us -- has shortcomings and at the same time a wide spectrum of positive qualities.

I don't know you personally, and I've never spoken to anyone who has chastised you, nor have I spoken with anyone who praised you. This is only, based on what I see publicly.

It would be a disservice to yourself to abandon all the people who care about you and respect you just because you aren't able to adapt to a minority of criticism or challenge.

The way we respond to criticism depends on the way we respond to praise. If praise humbles an individual, then criticism will build them up. But if praise inflates them, then criticism will crush them.

You're too bright to be a quitter, but the question remains, are you emotionally capable of taking good advice and putting pride aside?

-- Michael

Note It was my desire to send this privately but that was not possible. PM me for further discussion if you wish.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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SForsgren
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People deciding to go or not go should be based entirely on how people have responded to the device.

In fact, I think that someone on this thread canceled after sixgoofy made her post - so that person's loss is certainly not GiGi's doing.

Do people think that she stopped recommending it because she no longer got a commission - that is just ludicrous.

I agree with Cass A - where's the proof?

For sixgoofy to have ANY problem with the fact that she found the device and claims to be nearly 100% well and yet then still want to make the person that led her to wellness look badly in an open forum is very hurtful to many.

What good has it led to? It has led to one of the few people that has really helped many freely here on Lymenet (clearly some don't believe the freely part) now leave and never to return.

All are now permanently lost of the type of information that GiGi has shared here for years - that is a loss I cannot comprehend.

--------------------
Be well,
Scott

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SForsgren
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quote:
Originally posted by METALLlC BLUE:
[QUOTE]
are you emotionally capable of taking good advice and putting pride aside?

Wow, now that's a big comment for someone you have never even met. I've known GiGi for over 3 years and if there is anyone in this world that I look to that is emotionally strong, it is GiGi. She has been through so much in her life and yet she continued to help people here for free (again some debate this point).

I have benefited from her guidance in ways that I cannot count.

Personally, I hope she never returns here as she deserves better.

--------------------
Be well,
Scott

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R62
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Fault rarely ever belongs to one person. This could have been resolved in a much healthier way public post or not. Now we have drama and enemies. Thats the "shame."

Which reminds me that I am not the only human being in the room. Everyone makes mistakes, miscommunicates, is rude, self oriented unable to see the other side.. unwilling to listen to what has been expressed here by others, troubled, truly wants what is best.. All the while there are opportunities to listen, validate, learn, grow, and make ammends if and where needed.

I dont think anyone here is out to get anyone.

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sixgoofykids
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quote:
Originally posted by SForsgren:

I agree with Cass A - where's the proof?

If you did not receive the email from Dr. W copied to HB, let me know and I'll send it to you. This offer is only good for Dr. W's patients .... I'm not sending it to anyone else in the forum.

Oh, and the person who cancelled, did not cancel because of this post ..... it was because she's not ready to go yet for other reasons. It had nothing to do with this post, commissions, etc. The timing was just unfortunate.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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Looking
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I don't understand why this wasn't brought up privately with Gigi if no harm to her was intended.

Now, I suppose we will all suffer by not having access to this source of very helpful information.

So often, I have seen people jumped on for next to nothing here and all kinds of baseless accusations hurled around -- I hope this is not one of those cases.

I would not be biting the hand that feeds me so to speak and then wonder why they no longer wish to post here. I have seen Gigi harassed on many occasions including by some on this thread.

JMHO and very saddened by this.

I have access to a very promising energy treatment that I'm trying but I don't feel comfortable to post anything about it as it will just bring out the "attackers" here so I just share with people I know --- I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Hope you all find what you need to deal with this devastating disease.

Thanks, Gigi, for your more than 6,000 posts and all the good information you've left here for others.

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sixgoofykids
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quote:
Originally posted by Looking:
I don't understand why this wasn't brought up privately with Gigi if no harm to her was intended.

Because I have the email from the doctor, who copied the manufacturer on the email. I did not bring all of the discussion here, only the part I thought people should know. The intention was not to hurt GiGi, rather to help others.

Read my first post again .... and Nanadubo's second post. That was my intention.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
sixgoofykids
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quote:
Originally posted by NanaDubo:
I appreciate sixgoofy looking out for everyone here. She has always had positive things to say about Gigi and continues to even on this page.

Sorry Sparkle but it is not a front. You can read on this page and in the past how many of us benefited and are close to or completely well from being in his care.

As Scott said - "If GiGi were making money from the sales of the device and not disclosing that while all the time still promoting it here on Lymenet, I agree that would be an inappropriate thing to do. Even in that event, I still appreciate what I learned from her and many people I believe would agree".

I believe that is all sixgoofy was saying.

I have spent countless hours on the phone with Gigi and regardless of what some may think, she does truly care about the people here.

She has gained a lot of knowledge over the years and shared it with us.

So yes, Sixgoofy and Scott are correct, disclosure would be appropriate and still, I am grateful to her.



--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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zombie_mummy
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quote:
Originally posted by sixgoofykids:
I do not think the email should be posted because it has other information in it that the masses don't need to know. It would be pure gossip for me to post the entire email. Besides, who's to say I didn't edit it? You are receiving this information second hand, I received it first hand. If you think I tell the truth, then that's enough. I've revealed my source and others have confirmed that what I say is true.

All I am saying is that Dr. W sent me an email, that he confirmed it with the manufacturer that she was receiving a commission.

I have no problem with people making money off something, I have a problem with not disclosing it.

GiGi has been a BIG help to me. I don't deny that. I just don't think that people should be canceling their appts to Dr. W now ..... he's a good doctor and a good person.

I agree with 6. I also received the email (and I assume so did Scott, Nana, Joey, Paul, etc.) and I would not be comfortable with posting it here. It was not meant to be seen by all -just Dr. W.'s patients. I will confirm that 6 speaks the truth.

I am very distressed by this turn of events as I hold both GiGi and Dr. W. in high esteem.

I am grateful to GiGi for her tireless sharing of info and I hope she returns to LN, if only to give her side of the story.

Dr. W. is a wonderful doctor and a true healer. I fear that those who are now canceling their appts. with him are making a grave mistake.

--------------------
"Be it, don't dream it." -Dr. Frank-N-Furter

http://www.lymefriends.com/profile/zombie_mummy

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lymie_in_md
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Six -- thankyou for doing not only the hard thing, but the necessary thing. I admire your integrity and honesty. You are truly a gem on this site.

--------------------
Bob

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Looking
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I stand by the principle of taking the matter privately to the individual involved and allowing them to respond. Then proceed from there if need be.

It is a matter of respect and I'm sure something all of us would want for ourselves.

JMHO

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sixgoofykids
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Thanks, Bob and Zombie.

Looking, it's hard for you to say what you would do because you are not in my position.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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