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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Bionic 880 thread - promise I won't delete it (Page 14)

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Author Topic: Bionic 880 thread - promise I won't delete it
Gabrielle
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quote:
Originally posted by lymie_in_md:
Six -- thankyou for doing not only the hard thing, but the necessary thing. I admire your integrity and honesty. You are truly a gem on this site.

Ditto. Hats off to Six.

I was suspicious about this whole Bionic thing, also because I didn't trust in the person who brought the info about it to this board.

I was also a bit suspicious about Six's success report because I didn't know where she stood. Now I know. Thank you Six!

I feel far more positive towards this treatment now.

Gabrielle

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Looking
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Six:

quote:
Looking, it's hard for you to say what you would do because you are not in my position.
I am not trying to make you feel bad and whatever position I am in, I hope I would apply the principle of taking the matter up privately with the person involved first if at all possible. I don't see how anyone would know if they truly have the whole story without doing that.

Just my upbringing and what I feel is right, that's all. I wish you well.

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sixgoofykids
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Thanks, Gabrielle.

Looking, you don't know the whole story, that's all I mean. That is NORMALLY what I would do. You say, "if at all possible" ...... I agree.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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zombie_mummy
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Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the reason 6 made her post was because she realized that others are canceling their appts. with Dr. W on account of GiGi.

--------------------
"Be it, don't dream it." -Dr. Frank-N-Furter

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sixgoofykids
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quote:
Originally posted by zombie_mummy:
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the reason 6 made her post was because she realized that others are canceling their appts. with Dr. W on account of GiGi.

Yes.

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oxygenbabe
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Six, you were very graceful about it and I for one am grateful. It also makes things clearer to me and gives me more faith that PE1 may do fine.
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nyjohn
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people should not cancel their appointments with dr w in my opinion...their choices to go to him should be based on patients' reports alone.
we choose llmd's based on their efficacy and not fuzzy warm personalities. dr w is both warm and fuzzy, and is a fantastic doctor who knows what he is doing.
i have been back 3 weeks and am totally glad i went!
i don't want to post about details till i am 100%, though.
all i know is that i am thankful for those who posted their experiences, which allowed me to make the right choice for me. not being on tons of abx and supplements, which were not really helping me, is reason enough to go to germany, in my case. i could not afford any more abx, financially, physically, nor mentally.
i think the protocol works. i have had lyme for 15 years.

the only ones to really be angry with are those who run our medical system. keep that in mind. we are all here together in the same boat, trying to end this illness...we are lucky to have doctors like dr w who recognize the seriousness of lyme.

--------------------
do your best to educate the rest because
9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses

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oxygenbabe
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Why would anyone cancel Dr. W who was *not* taking commissions---if/because Gigi did?

That makes no sense.

If people can afford the $15,000, and feel it will help, go!!! And let us know how it was and how you are.

We've heard nothing negative about Dr. W.

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m0joey
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I agree with John. I think there are enough other sources on experiences with the Bionic out there (and more to come.. a la Lymic) that the incidents of the past few days should have much, if any, bearing on people's decisions to see Dr. W and try out this machine.

I for one have carefully documented each step of this experiment... even when I've had to go back on previous observations. Take everything you read, take a weighted average, and make your own decisions. If this whole "commission" business is the ammunition you need to change your opinion on the machine and/or Dr. W, frankly you haven't done enough research and taken all other public accounts into consideration.

There is so much politicizing and childish nitpicking on this forum that Gigi's ability to constantly bring the topic back to the "big picture" becomes diluted. Reading her posts has always been a source of comfort when there is so much different information and a million different ways to treat. She has seemingly done it all, and can narrow down both traditional and non-traditional treatments to "what actually works for me" for all of our benefit.

I suspect we won't realize how much these incidents pale in comparison to what we've lost in her posts until later on, but some foresight can go a long way toward revising what we say now.

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sixgoofykids
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quote:
Originally posted by oxygenbabe:
Why would anyone cancel Dr. W who was *not* taking commissions---if/because Gigi did?

If you read back a little, you will see when GiGi changed her opinion of the Bionic and Dr. W. She started recommending that people see a practitioner who uses AI and mentioned that she was now talking to one who uses AI instead of Dr. W.

That is why I thought it relevant that she was making a commission off this according to the correspondence from Dr. W. It explained to me the sudden change in opinion. People were canceling their appts.

Dr. W developed the Lyme treatment with the Bionic and I think he's a great doctor to see for treatment. Obviously it's worked well for me.

I'm distressed that this topic has gone the way it has, but I felt obligated to share the relevant information, though not everything that was in the email.

--------------------
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m0joey
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For those considering going to Germany, I think it is worthwhile calling up both practitioners that are being mentioned here before setting an appointment. In my opinion, they offer different approaches to treatment, and I understand they even have different ways of using the Bionic.

Even if I hadn't done either treatment, just from what I've read/heard about them I would've wanted to do the AI first. If for no other reason than finances. You don't need to go to Germany to get it done. I have a hunch that I could've saved much money on unnecessary nosodes if I'd treated in that order, although the verdict is still out on what infections I will have to treat after the AI is completely finished.

Also, directly based on my conversation with the other practitioner, I would've extended my time in Germany in order to see her. She seemed to offer a very comprehensive, customized approach to treatment.

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UnexpectedIlls
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It seems like everyone is mad at Six for doing something she felt was only RIGHT... yet NO one seems to be upset that gigi didn't disclose that she was getting money for bionic sales??? I don't understand...

I can only imagine how hard it must have been for six to come on here and tell us what is going on... I mean it is so obvious that she is GRATEFUl to gigi because she is now well because of the therapy.

Thank you Six for being honest with all of us!

--------------------
"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

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R62
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Will you please tell us more about this doctor, how she treats? Thanks.

quote:
Originally posted by m0joey:
For those considering going to Germany, I think it is worthwhile calling up both practitioners that are being mentioned here before setting an appointment. In my opinion, they offer different approaches to treatment, and I understand they even have different ways of using the Bionic.

Even if I hadn't done either treatment, just from what I've read/heard about them I would've wanted to do the AI first. If for no other reason than finances. You don't need to go to Germany to get it done. I have a hunch that I could've saved much money on unnecessary nosodes if I'd treated in that order, although the verdict is still out on what infections I will have to treat after the AI is completely finished.

Also, directly based on my conversation with the other practitioner, I would've extended my time in Germany in order to see her. She seemed to offer a very comprehensive, customized approach to treatment.


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nyjohn
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i think 6 was just posting in order to not have people base their doctor choices on anything other than patients' personal experiences with treatments with dr w.. she is one of many that felt great benefit from dr w and posted only positives regarding making the choice to go there and be treated by him.

--------------------
do your best to educate the rest because
9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses

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R62
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What politicizing and childhish nitpicking? On this thread?

Commission for Bionic or AI or both? Is this a fact? If so, then h** yeah, I would want to know. If not, then I feel very badly for Gigi.

I do believe that GiGi believes the AI is more important first therapy than the bionic.. thats how I read the change in referrals. I think AI or something like it will be very important for me.

I am grateful for GiGi. I'm grateful for Six.

I am grateful for all those who share and dont walk away and leave the rest of us behind.

I am esp grateful for those who comprehend that we all cannot afford this and keep that reality in mind when you post. Most of us would all choose a protocol laid out for us if we could afford it. Most of us dont not choose the bionic for the pleasure of figuring it out for ourselves.

If AI is so great.. and I hope it is, that would be beyond amazingly wonderful.. I think we are waiting with bated breath.. so hopeful and afraid of being so disappointed.

Here's what I want to know:

(1) Does the Bionic therapy work (and how well).. time will tell.

(2) Can the Bionic be reproduced well enough with other devices and means (esp for those who cannot afford the bionic).

(3) Is AI legit? It certainly is less expensive than even NAET. Does it work? I have read the google translations and nothing about the treatments.. how they are made.. what is in them. Can someone enlighten me on that? Everytime I have asked questions or seen them asked, folks are referred to the site., which is understandable but the site does not explain simple facts like what are the remedies made of??? The idea has been explained, which makes a lot of sense. Seems logical to me to have some therapy like AI first esp for those with as many dysregulations as I have.

(4) Can we stick to the facts? It seems to me it should be OK for people to question, esp when something is brought up to them.

(5) What about the other practioners? Dr. W pioneered the use of the Bionic for Lyme? Do the other doctors use differently and how? The bionic or the supportive therapies?

Too many suffering people here. Honestly, I am terrified and I know you all must feel that way too. We need help and to help each other.

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R62
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Thats how I read it... and then if AI is a valuable as it may be, one can choose to do it first and then see Dr. W.

We can also learn more about the other doctors using the bionic and make our own personal choices who to see.

I would like to know the choices and different practices and to be able to learn from them or choose one or the other.


quote:
Originally posted by nyjohn:
i think 6 was just posting in order to not have people base their doctor choices on anything other than patients' personal experiences with treatments with dr w.. she is one of many that felt great benefit from dr w and posted only positives regarding making the choice to go there and be treated by him.


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m0joey
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R62,

I only spoke with the practitioner briefly, but from what I understand, she uses AK for diagnostic and monitoring purposes. She uses both AI & bionic, and the bionic is used to treat a variety of bacteria & viruses, not just lyme.

She said very very warm & kind, and seemed to possess abundant knowledge of the multitude of infections we deal with.

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brite7
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Does anyone know this practionter's success rate and has anyone seen her yet? Oh and what is AK?
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bejoy
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My current take on all this:

LNE has a troll or two paid by big pharma to cut down on any treatments that affect their profits.

Some of those trolls used to reside here as regular fixtures, but are no longer welcome.

Some still reside here, but are a bit more careful to follow the rules while bashing anything threatening their profits.

They are paid well to do damage, and have been quite successful.

Friends, I'd like to believe in a friendlier world, but Big Brother Big Business is watching you.

On top of all that, people are imperfect, and can be reactive and get under other people's skin.

When that happens, it is easy for others, in US or abroad, on or off Lymenet to believe the accusations and spread them.

The generous innocent, even professionals, are likely to take the bait.

--------------------
bejoy!

"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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heiwalove
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i have the same question as brite. and AK is applied kinesiology, or muscle testing.

i appreciate six's disclosure and the intent behind it but i also don't understand why it wasn't done privately first. it seems to me that it's dr. w's word against GiGi's, which still relegates the accusation, in my mind, to the realm of rumor. i don't see how we can know the truth of the situation either way.

ps. nyjohn, i see you have the pm option disabled; is there a way to contact you privately? thanks.

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heiwalove
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bejoy, interesting take. i wouldn't be surprised if that is indeed what happened here.

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jl123
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What I would really like to know about the AI is
how many (even just a few accounts) people wind
up falling back in their health with it.

The problem with all treatments, is that many can make you (and have for me)worse than you ever were before. I have had this multiple times with various homeopathic and herbal therapy's and its just HORRIFIC to have this happen.

Truth be told I was much better (for over 4 years) before I tried anything (before I was "officially" diagnosed with lyme and babs- I believe I got them in 02'). For the first years I could at least go about my day, if not work too hard on anything or literally run.

I now so often look back to pre-07 as my glory years. Before I went so far back after trying supplements and remedies) At least now off all meds/supps I am stable, and re-gaining my ability to walk.

Can anyone tell if AI quite possibly will make me sicker? I doubt it. JL

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sixgoofykids
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quote:
Originally posted by heiwalove:
i appreciate six's disclosure and the intent behind it but i also don't understand why it wasn't done privately first. it seems to me that it's dr. w's word against GiGi's, which still relegates the accusation, in my mind, to the realm of rumor.

Because I didn't see how a private discussion would have accomplished anything. It was the people HERE I was concerned for. It was the people canceling their appts. I was concerned for. I consider the source to be good since it was a note to GiGi, copied to the manufacturer who paid the commissions, and copied to all Americans who went over for the treatment.

If it was a fault against me, I wouldn't just come air it out here.

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lymie_in_md
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Six -- you are quite right.

Heiwalove, in my mind its quite simple: The bionic was endorsed to the public by GiGi. The information about commissions is a public one. We are talking about 15,000 dollars for some people soooo desparate to get well, need to know all the facts. And deserve to know all the facts.

Personally, I will always hold GiGi with great regard, respect and admiration. I really don't care about the commission issue. It is more important to find the best vehicle to get well.

We now have all the facts, its time to find the best way to get well. And more affordably for all. So lets redirect our energies to something more productive.

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Bob

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sixgoofykids
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quote:
Originally posted by lymie_in_md:
So lets redirect our energies to something more productive.

Yes, please.

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Truthfinder
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I wasn't going to post on this thread..... [Frown]

As presented, we do NOT have all the facts nor 'proof' of anything.

I do hope that SOMEONE is going to verify this through the only source capable of adding sufficient evidence - the manufacturer of the Bionic 880.

Until then, all we have is a basic `he said - she said' scenario.

For future reference, if anyone here has some problem with me or thinks I may have done something unethical or worse, please approach me in private. If you present the problem to me in a reasonable, rational fashion, I assure you I will respond in kind about whatever the problem might be. Just give me the opportunity to resolve the matter, and I will do the same for you in similar circumstances. Thanks.

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Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are.

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lymeparfait
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For those that saw my original post about canceling my trip...I want to clarify, that I DID NOT CANCEL BECAUSE OF THE RECENT GIGI POSTS by Six and others. There must be other people canceling at his office because of this, not lymeparfait!

When I re-read my post, I decided to delete it, as it was written in a way to cause confusion to all about why I canceled. I apologize for the wording. I deleted it! I want no disrespect shown to all of you who I have been following with great admiration!

I do intend to re-schedule, and was actually planning on calling Dr.W's office the day I read these posts. That's why I originally posted...I was thrown off! I decided to wait until next week to call him to reschedule until I heard more of what is going on.

The timing of my decision was ironic...as I have personal family situations that are overwhelming me at the present.

Also, after reading more about the AI drops and speaking with some of those who are doing them, I feel I would like to try these first, before the bionic treatment.

I am in no rush to get the bionic...and want to do it when I feel very my body is prepared.

I hope this clarifies my position...that I still believe everyone's positive posts about the bionic.

I do think it is important for Gigi to tell us all that she did or did not get commissions, just because of this recent conversation.

The money doesn't matter to me, but it's the Trust factor!

We are all blindly trusting each other, and for some reason, I am getting very good intuitive feelings about many on this site. You feel like family as I read this almost daily. I will be posting more when I have somethng beneficial to share with my results.

I would be so dissappointed to have Gigi and others not post the phenominal info they learn here!

We all believe she is a great person, and has been most helpful in our alternative direction.

Coming forward would only strengthen our good feelings toward her and all the advice she has given us.

Not coming forward, leaves a cloud of disception over the bionic and all the good information she so willingly gave us.

It leaves a cloud over us all going for treatment when we tell others about our success years later, and they uncover these posts.

If she truely wants to help us all, she will tell us the truth...the truth sets us free!

No one will ever hold that against her, she would be admired for coming forward now!

To me, it's a sign of strength, humility and integrity.

Aren't we all learning about the power of the emotions and spiritual healing that seems to be a major blockage in physical healing via Dr. K?

We all need the emotional freedom about this treatment to be sucessful.

Love and healing to all my bionic family!

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oxygenbabe
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Here is a post from Gigi when she was enthused about Bionic, one of many from the "Bionic Thread, I promise I won't Delete; it was from Oct 3:

"I find it now so much easier not to find or have to treat Lyme any longer and being able to concentrate on what is remaining of the troublemakers. As far as I am concerned, the toughest part - stopping the Lyme from doing further damage - is over and done with. The photons continue to do their work, and of course it helps to continue at home with the Bionic instrument. I don't know what I would do without it now that I have discovered all that can be done with it. Right now I am treating mold until, if necessary, before we can get the very expensive medicine for Aspergillus. I don't really want to use it unless we have to, so we give the body a chance with photons. I treat with a fungal nosode and I treat with a teeny droplet of my husband's blood. All very, very carefully with only seconds, often under one minute, of application of the frequency and other factors that I learned to test with the Biotensor. I don't know what all is hiding in the place, but photons and resonance may just do their part.

There is no doubt in my mind that all who have had the disease a long time have other problems that must be addressed.

As I posted here before, in great detail which I will no longer do, I talked to several people in Germany, one a close family friend, who had the treatment. They all, except one, were well after a few weeks. Our family friend was cured of Lyme and well after the 3rd treatment, but did all five nevertheless. She is a lady a bit younger than I - about 70.

Only one lady I talked to left after the treatments with still the same pains, that totally resolved within - I think she said - 5 to 6 weeks, without any further treatment. She was told to just take it easy for a while and wait it out. She is also totally well when I called her and very happy.

I have more phone numbers and permission to call others. But I won't. It's useless and you all have heard enough. I understand that it is difficult to learn to trust - but distrust is one of the worst hindrances to find good.

Take care."

She was absolute about the Bionic and all that it had done and could do.

Now, here is a post from the Allergie Immun Thread on February 7, in which she gives AI such credit for working at the DNA level that she says you must not use light/Bionic at all; first she quotes someone's question about using AI and Bionic together:

"I am wondering how it would work to take the drops, then use light on the gates, and also length of the spine for organ accupuncture points, along with a solar plexus vial of global blood RNA/DNA.'

No, Bionic works at a different level. AI works at DNA. The drops are extremely, very, very effective - you would not want to add any light to them. Not recommended.

Since antibiotics would deliver a totally different information to the body, it is not recommended that any meds are done, except when they are very necessary (blood pressure, heart, etc.)

Take care."

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/76633

I had noticed the sudden silence on Bionic, the sudden switch to AI, and privately had wondered if her husband was getting sicker and she decided Bionic did not work and was trying something else. Until *this* thread I certainly had noticed the about-face and wondered why. I think the explanation suffices and I think it was in our best interests to know of it.

Nobody is saying Bionic doesn't work. In fact it does seem to help people and this is exciting.

To be honest about it, and let us all know, was brave of Six. It doesn't negate all Gigi's good information, nor does it negate the hopefulness some of us feel about this approach generally.

The problem is an ethical one and also, a treatment one, because if the Bionic is still as good as she was saying in October, and she is no longer extolling it because of conflicts of interest in terms of comission, then people could get hurt--healthwise.

In addition, maybe some folks really scraped together the $$, and if that commission money could have stayed in their own pockets, maybe they would have appreciated it...

The difference in the posts between Oct and Feb is tantamount to: Bionic works 100%; no, AI works better, deeper, and in fact, Bionic is contraindicated with AI, you can't use both together.

Without letting emotions of betrayal, friendship, whatever, run high----the point is, we need to evaluate Bionic, and LED devices with nosodes, realistically. So we need *HONEST* information, driven only by truthful experiences.

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n.northernlights
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But people just payed the official list price?
The only problem was that nobody on this forum got back the VAT? except gigi who did not pay the VAT, or did she and then got it back?
(I posted on how I got back VAT from something else I bought in Denmark)

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SForsgren
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I really don't see what the big change in opinion was...or at least how that is any different than many other things people try. How many things do many of us do and then find it did not do what we had hoped and we find something else that we feel works better? Seems a regular event.

What I see is the same people that have attacked GiGi in the past or felt attacked by her in the past using this as as opportunity to further an agenda.

I don't see how it is any different here. Are you suggesting that she changed her mind because she stopped getting commissions? That seems ludicrous from my point of view even if she were getting a commission.

And didn't GiGi already make a statement on page 13 about the commission issue? What else is she supposed to say that anyone here would believe anyway? Whether she did or didn't, the Bionic 880 was a good option for me and I am still very pleased that I pursued it and continue using it to this day.

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Be well,
Scott

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seekhelp
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THis subject is like beating a dead horse. If GiGi really cares about people here, she'll respond soon. Caring, compassion, dedication is not something you turn on / off like a light switch. Making a post that basically says 'good luck to ya'll, I'm done with your crap' that only hurts so many ill people doesn't fit.

I'm sure she'll be back. I wouldn't be surprised if she's reading this thread everyday. [Smile] I would venture the point of an incredibly healthy person like GiGi still posting on Lymenet is to help those in need. Well.....people in need are always here. If you're like that, you'd have a hard time sleeping at night knowing the 99% of posters here who respect your every posting are in trouble, right?

Lastly all was needed was a simple yes or no answer to the original issue.

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oxygenbabe
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The big change was, Scott, that early on the Bionic was *it*, and she was so glad she found it, it made all other treatments unecessary, and she was convinced that cheaper light devices would not work.

If *you* can't see the incredible change to--talking only about AI and saying that doing it with light is "not recommended" because AI works deeper, at the DNA level....

Then there's nothing I can say because the change is stark and obvious, it's almost the opposite of what she earlier said.

Also, she did not deny taking a commission. Her words were carefully phrased and they were phrased as "I would like to...". Which is simply stating a wish. I don't think that was accidental.

I'm personally not angry, nor emotional. I just want to keep seeing *HONEST* reports about the light devices, and if anybody is taking a commission, I WANT TO KNOW.

Thanks.

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SForsgren
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I am not saying there wasn't a change, but doesn't she have the right to her opinion. If she has decided that she needs to pursue a different option at present, that is her right.

Is she supposed to keep saying that the tool is as great as she had hoped if she truly no longer believes that? Why is that so wrong? I do think she is relaying her honest opinion.

Is it a sin to change your opinion on something as you get more knowledge and experience with it? Seems it must be.

If she was getting a commission, I agree that it should be disclosed. I would have still gone to Germany - and am glad that I did.

--------------------
Be well,
Scott

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R62
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>>What I see is the same people that have attacked GiGi in the past or felt attacked by her in the past using this as as opportunity to further an agenda.
>>

This is not helpful.

What I see is a person who is feeling attacked right now and people who have felt attacked in the past.

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R62
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>>I am not saying there wasn't a change, but doesn't she have the right to her opinion. If she has decided that she needs to pursue a different option at present, that is her right.>>

There was a change and I read it as a change in opinion. It was swift. I didnt think to question if the bionic was working or not... thought the AI was most beneficially done first and cheaper (yay), then the need for treatment of any kind might not be as great once dysregulation was addressed.

I didnt know about the possible commission deal nor did I pay attention so much to the talk of the bionic being the only device and the other devices not cutting it.

I can see how that would be hurtful esp to those who cannot afford bionic treatment and who were doing their best to piece together a protocol that they could benefit from.

How would you feel?

Only this machine will work.. yours wont.. then I changed my mind about that machine..now I am whole heartedly supporting something else.

What is very unhealthy is that one person has this much sway in a commuity. Not saying it is not deserved or that it is desired, but its not healthy however it came about.


>>Is she supposed to keep saying that the tool is as great as she had hoped if she truly no longer believes that? Why is that so wrong? I do think she is relaying her honest opinion. >>


Nothing wrong with changing your mind when new info comes along.

I think we all need to be careful describing anything as great until we have had full experience with it. Reporting as you do, Scott, carefully but truthfully optimistic is best.

I also have felt she was relaying her honest opinion. Opinion, not the word of god.

>>Is it a sin to change your opinion on something as you get more knowledge and experience with it? Seems it must be.>>

I dont think people are saying that. I can see how people question. I was following the AI thread very closely and immediately thought that I probably needed to do that (or something like it) first. So it made sense to me.

When the info on the potential commission came in, that puts a different (potential) view on things.. new info.. oh my... any one who thinks for themselves is going to question.. even you do..(??) and depending on how much you know the person and how much info you have that possibly others do not, you make a decision.

We all make decisions every day about what people tell us and events in life. Sometimes we have to change those too.. one way or the other. Straight honest info helps. Sorting through the thinking process helps. Its not normal or healthy not to question. I would like to think that I can question someone with respect and that they would respond in kind to help me clear the air in my mind. Then we move on.

>>If she was getting a commission, I agree that it should be disclosed. I would have still gone to Germany - and am glad that I did.>>

You even say "if." So what are people to think? No clear "NO" yet.

You can afford to experiment. Most of us cannot. Big difference in realities there. Can you see that? I'm so glad you did too.. so grateful for all of you who can afford to take chances. There was no guarentee.. no one tell bring back experiences until you all tried it. We are all so grateful for you and Gigi for that no matter and no one here wants to hold onto unresolved feelings.. that I am so sure of.

I dont think there is a person here who does not want this to be resolved in a way that gives everyone their dignity.

Robin

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NanaDubo
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If there was a change I don't believe it is because Gigi feels the bionic is no good or doesn't work. The other practitioner that is mentioned uses the bionic as well.

Perhaps being able to go after things at a DNA level is able to go deeper and is more far reaching.

I knew of cheaper devices than the bionic and even purchased one but this type of light is not a toy and my personal choice was to be under the care of a doctor with experience (just MY choice - not a slam).

To this day my borrelia is gone and no co-infections are showing up. This was a result of biophoton treatment 6 months ago - pure and simple.

Getting what you can from the bionic and then deciding to try Allergie-Immun is no different than in the abx world - maybe doxy worked great then someone switches to bicillin? Doesn't mean doxy did them no good.

I posted elsewhere that despite my feeling well, I am doing A I because if there is a way to correct the terrain that allowed me to become so ill in the first place, then that that is great.

Achieving a fully functional immune system and ANS system etc, etc, can only make me stronger and better able to deal with what could come down the road. Borrelia being gone doesn't mean all systems are go even if you can't feel them.

There are reasons lyme may have been the straw that broke the camels back and I wanted to know what they were for me.

I would not hesitate to use the bionic when and if necessary.

If information needed to be posted about whether or not commissions were made fine, but I don't believe it's anyone's business what personal emails between doctor and patient say.

Oh, and by the way the $15,000 price tag that keeps getting tossed around here is WAY many more K than I spent.

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R62
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>>Oh, and by the way the $15,000 price tag that keeps getting tossed around here is WAY many more K than I spent.>>

Nana... I have friends who could never afford treatment with an LLMD.. herbs and all or jsut abx. cannot afford. Perhaps because I know this one family personally and have for years, I see things from a different viewpoint that you are here.

How much did you spend?

I can afford. Its coming out of retirement money, but I can afford. I will also tell everyone as much info as I can legally share on how I am treating myself.

>>I knew of cheaper devices than the bionic and even purchased one but this type of light is not a toy and my personal choice was to be under the care of a doctor with experience (just MY choice - not a slam).>>

Your choice is not a slam on others. Cold hard facts are that many other people cannot afford adn you can. Simple as that. You are blessed to have had that choice.

I know for a fact that those using the other photon devices do not see them as toys.

Robin

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ukcarry
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I felt Gigi was merely saying not to use AI and biophotons AT THE SAME TIME,which makes sense .

She also suggested that AI may be the better one to go for first, which also makes sense, both financially, logistically and in terms of giving the Bionic less work to do, with less fall-out from metals etc to cope with after treatment.

I didn't read this as her having abandoned all support for the Bionic treatment,

Carry

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jl123
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Did anyone ever bother to simply find out if people with lyme and co feel a good deal better with AI drops.

I personally have not heard of anyone getting any major improvement. JL

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NanaDubo
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R62 - "Cold hard facts are that many other people cannot afford adn you can".

That is an incorrect assumption - I have sent you a pm.

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sparkle7
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In my mind there are alot of similarities between AI & other treatments. Some of these treatments are available in the US & are described in English. I'm not treating this type of thing right now, so it's not a big issue for me.

It's all just kind of ironic. GiGi was so apt to chastise me for not having enough money to use the protocol & it turns out that she must have needed the money.

It's not a crime to be low on funds. Many older people are having a hard time, as well as younger folks. It's just unethical to be using this place where we are "sharing" our thoughts as a marketing tool.

It's against the rules.

I also think it's wrong to be advertising a business in your personal signature. I noticed that someone here does that.

It's nice to share important information but it's a conflict of interest to also advertise something that you sell or make a commission from. Just because a person may be sharing alot of good info does not make them exempt from being able to sell related products.

Isn't this why Brian Rosner was removed? I don't know. I started looking at this message board after he stopped posting here. I have also seen vicious attacks on doctors who post here.

I think this is unfortunate, since we may be able to learn from them if they don't use this site as a platform to procure patients.

I do not think that sixgoofykids would have brought this to people's attention if she did not feel it was unethical. It must have been a very difficult decision for her since she was helped by this technology.

We all have to keep in mind that we are individuals treating an illness. What helps one person, may not help everyone. No one person's opinion should have more weight than any others. It all comes down to our own personal experience.

I have tried many protocols that I thought were working. Later, I discovered that they were not as beneficial as I thought. It takes time to see if they really are effective.

I hope people will feel comfortable sharing information here. It's really a shame that this has happened. GiGi was very good at providing information for us. It appears that she had an agenda, though.

This really discredits what she had to share.

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SForsgren
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I am still not convinced there was any agenda. If someone prove she received money that was not disclosed, agree - something not right with that.

That said, I have not seen it.

--------------------
Be well,
Scott

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oxygenbabe
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We don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater in terms of: sounds like Bionic and maybe other LED's combined with nosodes may be a very helpful way to treat.

However, let's please all be honest with each other. Let's share information honestly and if compensated, say so--seems like Scott does that on his site. Otherwise people feel betrayed and confused.

That's all we ask then we can make our own decisions.

Sparkle, Selma, Bejoy, please do keep posting about the other light devices.

And those who do Bionic--I'm following your blogs now as well.

Scott if you can update on your blog/site about where you're at with Bionic that would be nice.

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SForsgren
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Already updated on my web site which I am not able to post here. You can check there. On a page called What Next?

--------------------
Be well,
Scott

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zombie_mummy
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quote:
Originally posted by jl123:
Did anyone ever bother to simply find out if people with lyme and co feel a good deal better with AI drops.

I personally have not heard of anyone getting any major improvement. JL

I guess it is hard to say right now because many who are doing AI already did Bionic 880 tx and were feeling better from that.

Hopefully, someone here will complete AI first and then give their report.

--------------------
"Be it, don't dream it." -Dr. Frank-N-Furter

http://www.lymefriends.com/profile/zombie_mummy

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R62
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What are the frequencies the bionic offers and is it only a bug killing device? Can you do homeopathic detox with it as well.. I am assuming no nogier frequencies as on the LW or PE-1..?? Thank you for a realistic report and for keeping us updated, Scott.
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SForsgren
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I do loads of detox including homeopathic with the Bionic. The web site is biophoton.de.

As for my experience, the AI drops are clearly moving / shifting things. I had significant fatigue after dose 2 of 3 everyday during the drops. I had incredibly strong urine smell on them as well. I start round 3 this week.

Of course, all of this is a work in progress. So I am not going to claim victory or miracles, but if I did not feel that these were beneficial, I would not continue with them.

I am still doing both Bionic 880 and AI drops.

--------------------
Be well,
Scott

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sparkle7
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From my understanding - the Bionic 880 is useful for many health issues. It seems to me to be more geared towards practitioners. That's why it's more expensive. They probably give practitioners alot of info or support about how to treat people - which goes into the higher price (in R & D)... Just my educated guess.

It uses different frequencies than the Nogier ones. I still don't know how these frequencies were derived & how they are different than the Nogier ones.

Seems that a good alternative to the Bionic 880 is the PE1 that Brussels is using. It's around $1000 as opposed to around $7000 which is the Bionic 880 price range.

There's also the LightWorks which is $300... There are other devices available. These are the main ones people have been working with that I know of so far.

Some people have made their own devices or may use other brands. They haven't posted as much.

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Looking
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Hi Truthfinder:

quote:
As presented, we do NOT have all the facts nor 'proof' of anything.

I do hope that SOMEONE is going to verify this through the only source capable of adding sufficient evidence - the manufacturer of the Bionic 880.

Until then, all we have is a basic `he said - she said' scenario.

Thank you for your fair-minded appraisal of this situation.

Like you, I see no proof here, just a second hand report of a copy of something from a manufacturer that I think may have been in German and translated so who knows if it was a commission or a discount or even if it is a true document from the manufacturer or if the whole thing has been misconstrued.

The only ones who really know are Gigi & the manufacturer. So since everything else is second hand info I see no reason not to accept what Gigi said when asked about this which was:

quote:
I told you then in one of these threads that certainly, if I were to receive an offer that was worth my while I would consider it, that I would tell about it here and that I would then stop posting on Lymenet.

I would like to assure you that such an offer has never materialized, and would also like to tell you that I have never been financially rewarded by any other source about whom I posted , be it Dr. K., the Gaestehaus, the local Dobel grocer, the Aldi, nor the German car rental;

Nor do I get paid by AI or any practitioner from whom I gain information. It is the opposite, I pay for the time any practitioner give me when I ask their advice as a patient would. Much of this advice has been passed on to everyone on this board who cares to have it.

All the other suppositions, innuendos and outright twisting of Gigi's words are unproven at this point and I wonder how the people jumping to conclusions would like to receive this kind of kangaroo court treatment themselves.
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heiwalove
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Looking,

thank you. i agree fully. very well said, indeed.

--------------------
http://www.myspace.com/violinexplosion

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Brussels
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I'm with you guys (Looking, Heiwa). I do believe the Big Brother theory can be also true (Bejoy-Truthfinder), it's a one person's word against another person's word.

As I said, I trust Gigi for what she did in the past, for her thousands of posts of which she COULDN'T EARN any commission whatsoever.

I trust this lady because I never paid her anything and she always helped us home when we were in trouble. She even called dr. K. to ask about treatment for TBE when my daughter fell sick with this awful disease last year, and I paid her nothing. I'm just so grateful.

She did that by her own will and I feel the advice I got from dr. K. through her helped saving my daughter to get permanent neuro damage that is COMMON TO more than 50% of TBE infections.

So, no way, I trust this woman and I owe a lot to her. All her posts, even if I don't agree with all, they are still precious to me. I know I will never be able to pay her back, I just have gratitude.

About the shift of opinions, hey, what the h...?

If ANY OF YOU NEVER shifted your opinion after having started your lyme treatment, you are a either genius (because you found the answer at first and don't need adding anything new after), lucky (you don't need to add anything else) or you are so stubborn you won't admit you need further 'protocols'.

I'm still looking around, after all these years with this disease and other chronic conditions. I still haven't found the magic bullet.

So yes, I keep changing what I think it's important to do, and I'm glad I do that because I see I'm SLOWLY improving.

So, she had the right to change, as we all have.

And in all, if she received commissions, what does this change on the success rate of people that had used the Bionic? Nothing!!!

The only thing that this information did was to make the name of one person dirty. The Bionic and its positive results are still here.

Who wouldn't garantee me that in fact is not the other way around, but Six receiving money to publish that??

It's ALL rumor to my opinion. An email can be re-copied, and re-changed the way we want. The Big pharma would have interest to do that, right?

If this info had brought anything positive, I agree, let's continue on it. I see ABSOLUTELY nothing positive. It doesn't take the good results from the Bionic, and this dr.'s protocol away.

I agree, let's change this to a more positive discussion, then!!!

I'm NOT implying Six has received money to come out posting here like that.

I'm just thinking about the possibilities and for sure, I stay with what I know.

Gigi is someone that posted LITERALLY thousands of posts BEFORE THE BIONIC on subjects that NO WAY SHE COULD GET ANY MONEY, just for the purpose to share her extensive knowledge.

As for her sometimes heated answers, I agree with you guys too. But that doesn't make her contributions to LN smaller or makes of her a someone posting here JUST to make money out of commissions.

And fortunatelly, the Bionic works. And it will still continue working, despite any heated discussions about who promoted it first and who got money with what. It won't be cheaper for anyone if Gigi is getting no more commission.

So in all, the only thing that this new 'revelation' has made, is to make the name of someone, who has been here in LN MUCH BEFORE US ALL, dirty.

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oxygenbabe
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Human nature is complex. Someone could be giving good information *and* taking commissions, could be generous *and* duplicitous, could change their tune when the commissions stopped *and* yet give good info on AI.

People are rarely black and white cartoon characters.

I'm going to try and find Scott's update on his website.

Edit: I just looked and found it.
Scott, you seem to be a bit of a computer whiz. Is there a way you can enable your website updates for Google Reader? That is how I keep track of websites and blogs with new info. But don't know if you can do that.

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Truthfinder
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Well said, Selma, Looking, heiwalove.....

And for what it's worth, I'm not angry at Six for posting this. It was not a malicious post; she felt it was the right thing to do for the benefit of others, and we don't' know all the reasons behind that.

At this juncture, we need some actual confirmatory facts - one way or the other. Everything else is speculation.

Ask yourself if YOU would want to be judged on the basis of what we know now....

As R. Reagan said: ``Trust.... but verify.''

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are.

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Lymic
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May I suggest that we put this issue behind us after such a lengthy discussion? It is certainly not helpful to those who are sick and are seeking for answers to get well here. I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion but almost a full page of discussion is more than ample space to express them.

May we get back on track to talk about the treatment itself? I think that would benefit people more than the current discussion.

--------------------
http://lymic-bionic.blogspot.com/

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R62
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I wish this will resolve in a way that is functional and humane (not doubting the latter because all of you are smart, compassionate people) and I wish Gigi and Six the very best.

Lymic, thank you for your detailed experiences on your blog. Are you using substitutes for the ozone and IV? OR taking other special detox measures? I've been wondering about ozonated water. There are the Heel products and MagCl available as well.

Your pretesting and liver prep sounds like a good idea. Thank you for the detailed history and prep info.

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METALLlC BLUE
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quote:

Wow, now that's a big comment for someone you have never even met. I've known GiGi for over 3 years and if there is anyone in this world that I look to that is emotionally strong, it is GiGi. She has been through so much in her life and yet she continued to help people here for free (again some debate this point).

I have benefited from her guidance in ways that I cannot count.

Personally, I hope she never returns here as she deserves better.

I think what she does is wonderful. I think she'd be serving herself much better -- for her sake, not ours -- to adapt further to this criticism. When you're on the cutting edge of reporting data -- like she has been -- it's crucial to deflect the criticism constructively, -- usually by simply ignoring it.

I certainly don't know her, but I respect you Scott, and therefore I'm certain she's terrific. If she can be served by any advice or questions I ask, then that's great, but if it's not helpful, I would hope she'd ignore me just like any other criticism that she ponders and discards.

She's a leader, and a leader really needs to have that fundamental quality in order to cope with what can be an overwhelming cascade of information and skepticism and of course insults.

I hope she returns and feels better about all this. She's done a good job.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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Brussels
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Lymic, sorry, but you are a new member here of LN, by your number...

You have the probably little idea about the contributions of this lady to LN. Without her, you wouldn't be doing the Bionic, nor any of us here.

To this point, I don't care if the info was true or not. What I care is 'why bringing this info in public?' if the protocol is working / has worked? What kind of things this community can earn by bringing this information up?

I do care for one thing. The loss of a contributor that worths gold. It makes only a few of us that post here often to give it up posting to make the board empty of good information.

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Lymic
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quote:
Originally posted by R62:
Lymic, thank you for your detailed experiences on your blog. Are you using substitutes for the ozone and IV? OR taking other special detox measures? I've been wondering about ozonated water. There are the Heel products and MagCl available as well.

Your pretesting and liver prep sounds like a good idea. Thank you for the detailed history and prep info.

Hi R62, I am not doing anything to substitute for the ozone and IV, but I am taking a few things which I hope would help my body detox. These include hydrated bentonite clay, activated charcoal, milk thistle for liver support, and I could also take epsom salt baths. I have access to wet and dry sauna as well, and I was introduced to a magnesium powder called Natrual Calm which hopefully would help as well.

Have you taken the Bionic treatment either through yourself or by going to Germany?

--------------------
http://lymic-bionic.blogspot.com/

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Alv
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You have the probably little idea about the contributions of this lady to LN. Without her, you wouldn't be doing the Bionic, nor any of us here.
To this point, I don't care if the info was true or not. What I care is 'why bringing this info in public?' if the protocol is working / has worked? What kind of things this community can earn by bringing this information up?


Well said SELMA!!!

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SForsgren
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The last conversation I had with GiGi it was very clear to me that she will not be returning here. I think this was the final straw. Sadly, many people here will miss out on what I have found to be a wealth of information. It saddens me.

She says she has no plans to return here.

I guess I have to be happy for her since this is not a healthy dialog and she certainly does not deserve this treatment after all she has done for many.

--------------------
Be well,
Scott

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seekhelp
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Doesn't she care about the 99% of people here who love her and wrote 50+ posts to that impact? Geez.

i'd have a hard time sleeping at night, but....

Metallic Blue's comments should be considered more strongly.

People spending hours to write super long posts of appreciation and....

Maybe it's time to close this thread if she's not reading it.

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SForsgren
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Your perspective is one I understand, but try and imagine if you were on her end of it being attacked, accused of things she says she did not do, etc. It is unfortunate that she is gone, but she really didn't deserve it in the first place.

She's been on the receiving end of this for years here because of her unique approaches to wellness - approaches that I have benefited from more than I can say.

Being in an environment where one is attacked is hurtful and not good for her own journey...or ours for that matter.

--------------------
Be well,
Scott

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Looking
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Scott, I'm sorry to hear she won't be returning, but it is probably a healthy thing for her after all to concentrate on more positive things.

I am grateful to her that she stayed so long out of the kindness of her heart to help others even though she herself has been feeling well for some time.

I don't see the need for her to expose herself to public humiliation in return for her good deeds so I wish her well and I'm sure she will still be sharing with friends and acquaintances who will appreciate and benefit from her knowledge.

I will miss her posts for sure. Take Care of yourself Gigi!

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Brussels
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Seekhelp, you are also number 15,000, so a new member.

When I came here, I was on another screenname, it was in 2005. If it were not for her, I would have been very probably dead.

She was for me, one of the best source of information I got from LN during all these years, without doubt. If not, the first best source of information.

That is why I write this all. That is why there are more than 50+ posts about her.

You'll see in the next months to come, there will be loads of unanswered threads on metal detox, dental work, etc. It happened before when she left for a while.

If you stay longer here, you'll see that people can die for lack of fast and good information. One gets the wrong treatment at the wrong time, well, one just goes away.

There are very few people that are reasonably healthy posting here. Most, when they find the good treatment, just leave the board and never post anymore. She didn't.

90% + of people who post here suffer from brain fog. She didn't. The type of info you get from brain fogged people that are still looking for a solution to keep surviving, and from an intelligent person, with decades of experience with many modes of treatment, is very different.

I can probably still profit from private emails to her, but what about a next very sick guy coming here that never heard about all alternative treatments she went through the years?

she won't come back, so that is my last post about her. No worry, I won't post anymore about her.

Selma

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steelbone
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All i can say is Gigi will be missed. All this energy spent on this is brutal IMO..

Thanks God I speak with Gigi outside of LN...She is a wondeful person and knows more then Most LLMD...

Lets put this thread to rest...

--------------------
All The Best,
Paul
[email protected]

The harder you work the luckier you get!

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oxygenbabe
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No, this thread is over 1000 posts long and has good info on Bionic. I hope that those over in Germany now will post on this thread when they come back and we will continue to keep this thread alive.
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R62
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quote:
Hi R62, I am not doing anything to substitute for the ozone and IV, but I am taking a few things which I hope would help my body detox. These include hydrated bentonite clay, activated charcoal, milk thistle for liver support, and I could also take epsom salt baths. I have access to wet and dry sauna as well, and I was introduced to a magnesium powder called Natrual Calm which hopefully would help as well.

Have you taken the Bionic treatment either through yourself or by going to Germany?

I cant go to Germany yet. I have amalgams and am not advised t take them out yet.. all doctors hav said this. My body is too toxic. So I am working on testing of detox pathways, detox as you are.. similar and started some homeopathics as well for detox... considering AI first.. and to being with my Lightworks (which I ironically had before this thread or idea came to my attention). When I feel more stable, I want to get amalgams out and then reconsider Bionic treament.. maybe it will be here in the states by then... I think this will probably take me a year as it seems all this takes so much time. If the LW serves me well, I may move up to the PE-1 if it is safe with amalgams. I am concerned to go to Germany and come back with problems because of the amalgams and detox problems.
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seekhelp
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Has anyone on this forum ever gotten better from Lyme without removing all their amalgam fillings? Is it truly that important? I'm not as much referring to Bionic 880 treatment.
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sparkle7
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I don't think Dr. W would be e-mailing people a letter stating that GiGi was receiving a commission if it wasn't true. He's a doctor & has to keep his reputation intact.

GiGi was stating that people could, potentially, be completely healed of Lyme after 3 weeks of treatment by Dr. W... That's a big statement! I don't know how comfortable he was with this sort of endorsement.

I don't think it's "black ops" or something to discredit this form of therapy. It doesn't reflect on the effectiveness of the treatment.

It's just about someone who got a commission.

I don't think it's bad that GiGi may have gotten a commission - but this is against the rules of this message board.

The e-mail from Dr. W was not sent to everyone here - so, we don't know. I still don't think sixgoofykids would have said anything about it if she didn't feel it was important for people to know about it.

She had alot to lose by revealing this info.

There are others who received the e-mail letter & haven't said anything. If they decide that it doesn't matter that GiGi may have gotten a commission - that's their prerogative.

It doesn't make it OK that she didn't disclose that she was getting a commission, though. It's just unethical.

If there are real doubts that this whole incident is not true... I hope people will come out & say definitively that she was not receiving a commission.

At this point, it seems like it's sixgoofykids word against GiGi - she's not the only one who received the letter. Did Dr. W actually send this letter to people? Anyone can say Dr W made it up or six made it up or the CIA made it up... or sixgoofykids works for the drug companies & she's trying to discredit alternative medicine...

I don't really think it's about that. GiGi shared alot of great info but she also rubbed many people here the wrong way. It's like oxybabe says - people are not all black & white.

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R62
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I think amalgams are contraindicated with the bionic. I heard it chelates them.
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sparkle7
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seekhelp- some people do get better from having their mercury fillings removed & some people don't.

There are many factors... like how long you have had the fillings, who removes them, are they removed properly, how long you detox the mercury after they are removed, if you are sensitive to the mercury, if you become ill due to the removal process or have too many fillings removed at one time, do you have other dental toxins from other dental procedures like root canals, did you eat alot of fish or have you been exposed to mercury in other ways, genetics...

Mercury is in no way healthy but it seem to me that everyone responds differently to it. People may argue with this but it's just what I have seen from how a number of people respond.

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rachellemarie
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I had all my mercury fillings out before heading to Germany. I was hoping after getting them out, I would feel some difference in my health, but I didn't. This isn't to say that it is not a good idea. I do think that they should come out regardless if you are heading to Germany for photon treatment or not as the mercury and heavy metal is yet another drag on the immune system. But I understand not everyone can afford this.

Gigi never said the photon treatment was a 3 week miracle cure, that I recall. She stated just the opposite. Although my Lyme is just about totally gone and I was able to lose my Epstein Barr within the first 3 treatments, I still have symptoms. I was hoping to see some fast relief, to some extent, but I haven't yet. This isn't to say the treatment didn't work...it is a long process of peeling away the layers until (IMO) you either get to the actual source of what is causing the symptoms, or you unload enough viruses, coinfections, bacteria etc...that your immune system is able to kick in again and work properly.

I am giving myself a minimum of 6 months of treatment and detox etc...before I will be able to tell if this treatment was successful. But like everything in life, nothing works 100% of the time for 100% of the people. We are all responsible for doing the research and then deciding what treatment protocol is best for our needs.

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Cass A
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Dear Six,

Thank you for your postings. You made a difficult decision, truly.

I personally will miss GiGi's posts on potential new breakthroughs that she might find.

If someone were sent data that I had secretly gotten financially rewarded for a product I'd promoted to them (or other ethical lapse on my part), I would hope that the receiver of the data would a) ask me privately and b) side-check if it were true if I denied it.

We can't "roll back the clock" on this particular situation. But, perhaps each of us could learn something....

Best,

Cass A

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Lymic
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Hi Six, thank you for your reminder on my blog to stay away from EMF during the treatment. I'll keep that in mind and try my best to avoid it. It might be hard though because all there is to do when I'm home is to browse the internet or watch TV, but there's only so much to watch on TV.

I'm not using wireless internet but my keyboard and mouse are wireless. Other than that, the only other source of radio wave would be my cell phone. But then I heard all electronic equipments, wireless or not, produce some sort of EMF, so sitting in front of the monitor and next to my computer might not be a good idea either. [Frown]

--------------------
http://lymic-bionic.blogspot.com/

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sixgoofykids
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I really hate to bump this thread back up, but I needed to take a few days away from the site because of the stress it was causing me, and now I have information people have asked for.

Most of the questions against my integrity had to do with whether or not I contacted the manufacturer. Well, now I have. His email confirmed all I was saying and all Dr. W said in his email.

If anyone who received Dr. W's original email want to see HB's email to me, please email me to let me know .... email, not PM.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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