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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Bionic 880 thread - promise I won't delete it (Page 3)

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Author Topic: Bionic 880 thread - promise I won't delete it
lymie_in_md
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O2 -- It's possible Clancy won't post anything here again. And I don't blame her, some of the attacks in her thread were outrageous.

Some of those who were here at lymenet would call constructive criticism were actually attacking people personally. When people are attacked they tend not to provide information, so we lose honest appraisals and we are the losers.

I hope Clancy's husband gets fully better and my prayers are with them.

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Bob

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UnexpectedIlls
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I do believe I have a mold issue in my house... Unfortunately I can't move right now... so I dont know how exactly I can be rid of it if I do not move?? Even if I treated it it would be a waste because I LIVE in it...

I know someone right now who is using the bionic880 in California... I will keep up on her progress...

I am open to such things... I meant no harm by what I wrote in my post at all... just some questions I have and trying to understand all of this.

I wish everyone the best of luck that go to Germany!! I hope you come back healthy!

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"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

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sixgoofykids
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Unexpected, if mold is a problem I would really focus on detoxing thoughout treatment. I did make significant progress with treatment, but detox made me see the most results.

Hands down the detox method that gave me the clearest results was the coffee enema. Eating right, exercise as I am able (might be a walk around the room [Wink] ), water, burbur, etc. were all good, too, but my family and the LLMD even noticed my clear progress when I started the coffee enemas.

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sixgoofykids
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Unexpected, if mold is a problem I would really focus on detoxing thoughout treatment. I did make significant progress with treatment, but detox made me see the most results.

Hands down the detox method that gave me the clearest results was the coffee enema. Eating right, exercise as I am able (might be a walk around the room [Wink] ), water, burbur, etc. were all good, too, but my family and the LLMD even noticed my clear progress when I started the coffee enemas.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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m0joey
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I just set an appointment with Dr. W in 4 weeks. I was able to speak with him for a moment, and he sounded really kind.

I'm still trying to gather as much information as I possibly can before I leave. I have heard from one patient who saw him recently and has a dispute with Dr. W. I'm also trying to see if I can get my chiro in LA interested in this. If she'd be willing to purchase the machine, I would rather buy it for her than for myself and have her treat me with it in the future.

-joey

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sixgoofykids
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Joey, I'm there until Nov. 1. Will our trips overlap? If so, it will be good to meet another Lymenetter. [Smile]

In brief, as I'm not interested in gossip, but what is the dispute? Just trying to get an idea of what someone would be upset about, don't need all the details.

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ItCantBeTrue
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Everyone, please keep us all updated on your progress! ( I know nan is out of touch for a while but I can;t wait to ehar the rest of her story when she gets back!)

I am seriously considering this treatment for my girls. If it works, it would be a Godsend.

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oxygenbabe
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Bob, I hope somebody can find out from Clancy then, I understand why she wouldn't post.

Unexpected, you can remediate. IE tear out the moldy wall(s) and replace. It has to be done properly of course. Go buy the book by Mary-Beth Short Ray. Look on Amazon for it. She fixed her house which had aspergillus. OTOH her office had stachy and she got out of there. Unless its a toxic species of stachy you can remediate. If you believe you have a mold issue, some of us with chronic lyme/coinfections & mold issues who have genes for poor detox cannot get well in a mold environment.

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UnexpectedIlls
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OB, I would but i dont own this house and we cannot afford to really live day to day, nevermind replace walls... My grandparents own tge hosue and I guess they dont care to get the mold problem fixed [Frown] Oh well

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"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

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sunshinyday
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Nana Dobo,

So glad that you are doing well!

Good for you!

Looking forward to hearing more.

Gail

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Gail

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Angelica
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Reading this thread makes me feel very positive that there might just be a healthy treatment out there ahead for many of us. I did do antibiotics in the past but would rather do something else in the future.

Currently I am only doing herbs for LD and Bart.

Gigi I have a question about mercury fillings. If I wanted to go to Germany next Spring when it gets warmer there for treatment would I need to get my mercury fillings and 1 crown out first?

I have been energetically tested for heavy metals twice and yes I do have heavy metals but mercury does not seem to be one of them at the moment.

I have also done a hair analysis in the past and a blood test for mercury given to me by a LLMD in 2006 both were negative for mercury. I have yet to do a urine test for mercury.

Thank you,

Angelica

Ps. Nana Dubo keep up the great healing!!!!

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m0joey
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six--I have no idea what the dispute it, but I think the person will tell if she feels comfortable there won't be a backlash against her. I think this is important so that we get all sides of patient experiences with him. It'd be a shame for us to spend thousands to go see Dr. W if we encountered a similar dispute with him that made us cut the trip short.

My first treatment is on 10/23, so yes I will hopefully see you and steel! Where are you guys staying? I hope it's not raining/snowing when we go there. I would like to get around via a bicycle & train if possible

-joey

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sixgoofykids
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Joey, we are staying at Mrs. Klein's guesthouse that GiGi has mentioned. Dr. W doesn't want people staying somewhere with wireless internet as he has seen it have a negative effect on treatment (remember light is an energy and EMF's can interfere, we're not talking about a "chemistry" treatment).

I don't think any of us should "bad mouth" our doctors publicly, so I don't know that someone should really tell completely about a dispute, but if it's something that genuinely affects those of us going over it would be nice to hear something (is it a treatment dispute? a financial one? etc.).

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zombie_mummy
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quote:
Originally posted by UnexpectedIlls:
It seems like the people who do well from this treatment are those that already have significant progress/symptom resolution...

It doesnt seem like a treatment for those that are very ill (like myself) and can barely function at all, or are way too sick to travel all the way to Germany... It seems like a good treatment for those who already have some symptom resolution and are functioning at a higher level.

If this was a cure for lyme than we would have nothing to worry about.

I wish I had the money and the well being to go just to see how it would work for me... I am way too sick to travel... even to my doctors.

...

I want everyone to be healthy believe me, BUT.... I have just heard since I found out that I had lyme that there was NO cure.. that I wold NEVER be cured... So I think if this was a cure for us than LLD's would be trying to get these machines to cure us.. make us better...

Shandy, I am much like you, mostly home-bound these days due to my illness. I am partially paralyzed and have 3 young children.

I was put on iv abx for 7 weeks in the spring but had to stop because I was herxing so violently, I wound up in the hospital ER 3 times. My LLMD does not know what else to do for me. All he knows is abx.

I then tried various alternative protocols (salt/c, mms, herbs) but had bad reactions to those as well. I believe I'm so toxic, that anything causing me to herx also causes too much inflammation for me to handle. The only things that have helped me are changing my diet (Specific Carbohydrate Diet), TCM foot nerve therapy and getting my mercury amalgams replaced (I now KNOW I have metal issues).

My parents told me 3 days ago that they will help pay for me to go to Germany and have the treatment done. It's really my only hope of recovery, I feel.

I have to renew my passport, make arrangements for childcare and then try to book an appt. with Dr. W. so I don't yet know when I will be able to go but I will keep you posted. If it works for me, chances are it will work for you.

[ 29. September 2008, 07:53 PM: Message edited by: zombie_mummy ]

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Angelica
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zombie_mummy I just wanted to say congrats on getting the green light to plan the trip.

I am sure it will be a lot of work to get over there but it may really be rewarding in many ways when you do.

CONGRATS!!!!

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heiwalove
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if folks keep having positive results i may try to go to germany next summer/fall as well, depending on my financial situation.

GiGi, i'm so happy to hear your husband continues to improve. quick question: what sort of binding agents is he using? something dr. W recommended, or the usual chlorella/MSM/pectin/betasitosterol/zeolites/etc?

please keep the reports coming. best of luck to everyone traveling to germany and treating with dr. W. [Smile]

--------------------
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GiGi
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quote:
Reading this thread makes me feel very positive that there might just be a healthy treatment out there ahead for many of us. I did do antibiotics in the past but would rather do something else in the future.

Currently I am only doing herbs for LD and Bart.

Gigi I have a question about mercury fillings. If I wanted to go to Germany next Spring when it gets warmer there for treatment would I need to get my mercury fillings and 1 crown out first?

I have been energetically tested for heavy metals twice and yes I do have heavy metals but mercury does not seem to be one of them at the moment.

I have also done a hair analysis in the past and a blood test for mercury given to me by a LLMD in 2006 both were negative for mercury. I have yet to do a urine test for mercury.

Thank you,

Angelica


Ps. Nana Dubo keep up the great healing!!!!


Angelica, all I can tell you is that Dr. K. would highly recommend that amalgam fillings be removed. I am sure you have seen the "smoking tooth" I posted the other day. That is happening throughout the day as you move your jaw, bite, and drink hot and cold. The "vaporized" organic mercury moves in and up and turns into a different form of mercury that is much more difficult to remove from the body, especially out of the brain. The brain is lipid - mercury is attracted to it.

If mercury does not show up in a hair test means exactly the opposite of what you think or your uninformed doctor thinks. It does not show in the hair because your body is not releasing it.
Once you start going on an effective detox program, mercury will show up in the hair.

That is why hair tests are done, before a detox; and then another hairtest following a few weeks of metal detox; if the metal then shows up in the hair, it is a strong indication that you are heavy metal toxic.

The same for lab tests. If your body is not equipped to detox it, it will not show in urine or stool without a challenge. With a challenge test with DMSA or similar, often some metal shows up in the urine or stool. Sometimes none show up. If you have them in the mouth, chances are they are in your body and Central Nervous System.

No test can tell how much is remaining in the body. When all symptoms are gone, toxic metals are usually gone.

If you go the Lyme Bionic880 route, you can still have symptoms of heavy metals after a successful eradication of Lyme and co-infections. And further detox should be done. The Bionic seems to automatically help the release of metals. I posted about that before. It's a long way from the cell to the toilet. It all depends on how loaded with metals a person is.

That does not mean it is not in your body. If you test for it energetically and the testing is done correctly, especially with fillings still in your mouth, the mercury is still in your system.

I suspect that many Lyme sufferers have long gotten rid of the Lyme, but are still hanging on to other neurotoxins causing identical symptoms.

Different toxic metals never show up at the same time. I am really learning that now: Since my husband has had the Lyme treatment with Bionic880 and eradicated, cleared all Lyme and co-infections, the heavy metals are flowing and I can test them literally every day in urine and stool. He had done heavy metal detox for at least eight years! So we know that pathogens, fungi and mold, are holding in the metals and detoxing is difficult. That seems to have changed now.

So if you decided to go get the Bionic treatment next year and still arrive with your fillings and the source of your toxins intact, it means you are then constantly still moving mercury into the brain (they usually head "north" into the brainstem) and you are going to have to recycle all that miserable stuff all over again. Why?
The teeth will be giving off mercury for years and years. It doesn't make sense not to turn the gas stove off while the gas is still escaping into your living quarters!

Now you have time to do it slowly if you wish. It is best to either do it very slowly with many weeks in between, or rather quickly within a week or two in between in order not to expose the body to longterm stress. And of course get a good preparation before you have it done. Today I would get "Biologo Detox" - while doing it because it covers all aspects of keeping things calm while doing the work. I have posted about it before and it is only available in Austria right now. But it is doable and so much easier on the system. It's expensive, but it covers the whole detox on all levels. Maybe you have a friend in Europe who can get it for you and mail it here. The company cannot at this time. I don't know why.
If you need help with that, let me know.

In short, I got well once the bugs were gone and I had no more metals in my mouth. Dr. K. would not consider treatment before advising you in a similar way. My addition to that is - metals are part of the cause for the microbial invasion into our body.

Hope this helps.

For others reading here: If Lyme is eradicated and total health has not been restored, the diagnosis was incorrect and/or other contributing problems overlooked or not taken into consideration.

My husband is now showing massive fungi and mold, with energetic testing. Aspergillus that showed up in a Darkfield, I just learned as I kept digging, produces dopamine, in my husband's case excessive dopamine which causes other neurotransmitters to be out of balance; he has very low serotonin, on and on. So I am busy learning to treat him with Bionic for these hidden remains.

Six is correct. Lyme has nothing to do with mold. Mold has nothing to do with Lyme. Metals do - that is the common basis for our chronic infections. Dr. K. wrote about and published this in the nineties. Look it up on his website:
www.neuraltherapy.com/Heavy Metals and Chronic Disease. And we eat and breath the stuff every day. Mercury in the atmosphere everywhere. We need to learn to be on a lifelong detox for the heavy metals if we want to stay well.

All this is a bit distant from the thread at hand, but it all plays into the fact why some people are not totally up and running after the Bionic treatment. Many are, which is obvious from all the people I have talked to who had the Bionic treatment.

Someone mentioned a Dr. Ke. who practically lives around the corner from Dr. W. I am very familiar with him, he is a typical abx-ler. I know that Dr. W. sees his patients for a few weeks. His neighbor who does not use the Bionic has a revolving door = job security. Bionic treatment is not covered by normal health insurance - only the privately insured. Draw your own conclusions.

One of the reasons it took me so long to catch on about Dr. W's work is that my brother told me that it is a Dr. in that same city who treats Lyme with photons. I assumed that the Lyme doctor I knew in that city must be Dr. Ke. and knowing that he is an abx-ler, I discounted the whole story for over two months. Then one day it hit me --- I must find out who that Doctor is in that city - and I found Dr. W. I later learned from Dr. W. about Dr. Ke's attitude toward the Bionic --- well, what else is new? There are doctors and there are healers.

Til some other time.

Take care.

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GiGi
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Heiwalove, see my note on Biologo-Detox. It is great. I use everything except the kitchen sink to mop up. I found a new one that is not expensive either -Guar Gum. Got it from www.Firstchineseherbs.com where I buy our usual pound of Goji berries to nibble on!

Take care.

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Angelica
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Gigi thank you for your reply.

I think I would like to start removing my fillings slowly so that I can leave for Germany next April May or June.

I am deciding between more then one dentist at the moment before I begin.

I will probably be contacting you to find out how to get some Biologo Detox.

I can't wait to be able to finally eat the foods I enjoy again without guilt like a piece of fruit or even ice cream.

Thank you again,

Angelica

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NanaDubo
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I know, I know, I said you wouldn't be hearing from me until next week but I had to get to a computer this morning to see what is going on!

First - guar gum that gigi mentioned: My acupuncturist in the US is from China and she has all of these things. I will be speaking with her in short order when I return to continue detoxing.

Metals - Here is my experience and what Dr. W told me. He did not refuse to treat me with amalgam fillings, although I do intend to have dental work when I get home.

What he DID say is that conflicting metals is a bigger issue for me. A gold crown and amalgam fillings. He said I probably enjoy being able to pick up the BBC.

I am only repeating what he told me - "one or the other, but do not have two different metals". He said it was most important that one or the other go. He was not saying that amalgams are okay. I think he is sensitive to cost of things and wants me to start by doing one or the other first.

I am taking things to help clear the metals out and am so grateful he tested some things for me. Very important as I have said, the expensive chlorella I was taking was not doing a thing for me.

I saw the video last winter about smoking amalgams. docluddite also pointed it out to me. All things in good time.

As far as Clancy goes. I have met with them several times and I will ask their permission to write something when I get home. He is not having orthopedic work, he is working with an osteopath.

lymie_in_md is very correct in talking about emotions. Dr. W said "there will be many tears". There have been a number of huge emotional releases. Everything is released.

I was worried about some things I was experiencing the last couple of days but I see now it is just more correction taken place. I had a couple of drenching night sweats and babesia type symptoms that I have not had for months, return briefly.

My feeling is that is saying farewell. Gigi also reminded me that the hormones start balancing and that sweating is a form of detoxing too.

I am feeling fantastic. It is hard to let it in. I never thought I would hear myself say that - but along the lines of what lymie_in_md talked about - there is much emotion.

It will take some re-calibrating in my brain to find new ways to spend my time and energy. I am more than happy to do this!!

My plan is to detox, detox, detox when I get home. The biologo detox gigi found sounds very good. It is a shame they don't ship to the US. I do have friends in the UK and Austria and will look into getting this asap.

lymie_in_md - I don't think steelbone is old enough to remember Maverick but I sure do [lol]

Someone mentioned bicycling around here. I hope you are in better shape than I am as it is all uphill from Pforzheim to the Klein's apartments, and I do mean UP. The bus stop is a 3 minute walk.

I am walking a few miles everyday which is quite an accomplishment for me and it feels very good [Big Grin]

I highly recommend staying at the Kleins's apartments and out of the city. They are quite conscious of doctor W's concerns and are very, very kind. Please remember though, this is not a hotel.

Time to hit the streets. I am looking for one of those wonderful
German Christmas candle things - don't know what it is called. I tried to sketch it and Mr. Klein though I was looking for a helicopter [lol]

All the best. NanaDubo

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nyjohn
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yay!!!

that is fantastic news!!!!!

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do your best to educate the rest because
9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses

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sixgoofykids
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Thanks for the update Nana!

Sorry for the mixup on orthopedic/osteopath.

Yes, having two metals in the mouth is horrible, it causes more to be released because of the galvanic reaction between the two. I know someone who has Lyme but most of her problem is metals. She didn't get sick at all until she got a second type of metal in her mouth. Literally got sick overnight.

I had my amalgams out in 1991 and detoxed how the biological dentists were recommending at the time. I didn't even think about being sick from that point until 2003 when I got the Select Comfort mattress that got moldy. That's how much extra stress either the mercury or the mold put on my immune system, with either stressor I could no longer handle the Lyme.

What I'm saying is, I was unhealthy back in 1991 when I had the amalgams removed. Healthy with some random Lyme symptoms from that point till 2003 when I began my mold exposure.

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heiwalove
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wow, six, so you've traced your most recent symptoms back to the purchase of the moldy bed? that's huge, i think, and just demonstrates again how all these factors work together to depress our immune systems and allow the critters to overtake. it is rarely lyme alone, as GiGi has been saying all these years.

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mati
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Just checking that I can post
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mati
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Well here is the low down on my trip to Pforzheim.

A German aquaintance offered to drive me to see Dr W and to stay there while I was having my treatment. It turned out to be a disaster however. We were staying at a campsite but it was cold and wet. He complained and said he wanted to drive back to Berlin and then come back down for my next treatment. As his driving was erratic to say the least, and I was exhausted by the journey down which he said would take 6 hours but in fact took 11 plus another hour the next morning getting me there just on time for the appointment but no time to shower or freshen up I declined. I had to desperately look for a hotel on a Saturday and could only find one charging 59 euros a night due to the season. He left. I told Dr W about the problem with accomodation at my next appointment. I could not do my dairy, gluten and sugar free diet and there was only a Chinese buffet nearby. After a few days i was really stressed and desperate not having the energy to find a supermarket and having no cooking facilities anyway so I took the fast train back to Berlin. My appointment had been reappointed 8 days after the second one and could not cope any longer. I wrote to cancel my appointment and say why. I thought it easier to communicate this way but now the Dr is complaining that it was impersonal for me to do so and that I did not say what i was doing for them to offer help. I had already told them though.

I am now worse though the chiropractic session I had was of benefit I think.

At the start I was told that normally a medical history would be written out prior to seeing the doctor but as I did not speak German they would not be able to do it. I could have prepared this if i had been told previosly even in German.

The doctor is not good at English, he is limited especially when it comes to something like a consultation. A lot of time was spent with me trying to find the e-mail address of a doctor in the UK who had done darkfield microscopy to find the bacteria. I did not get to tell him about the problems with mercury poisoning in the past apart from the amalgams. He looked at my amalgams, one of which I think leaks but did not tell me it would be best to get them out. Now I think it is imperative to do this. What is the point of trying to reboot the immune system with them in place? I deeply regret this move. I could have been told before hand.

I had the ART testing but was only told that I had a big problem with clamydia - not the sexually transmitted one and have borrelia badly. He said nothing about food allergies and little about my MCS apart from asking if the symptoms of that are worse than the borrelia. Of course i do not know. It seems to me that he is not knowledgeable about the mercury problem.

My complaints about the Dr are as follows, and I have communicated them to him with no success.

I believe that he has made no effort to accomodate English speaking patients because my diagnosis is in German and the results of the blood tests also in German. He has not interpreted them to me because I left. He seems annoyed that i left even though I sent an e-mail which he is claiming he did not receive. I pointed out that Germans speak Englsih as a second language and that English is in fact the business language. My last communication from him is in German and he continues to say that he has no responsibility to try to communicate with me an international patient in English. It has made things very difficult when i am having a dispute with him.

I also said that i was disappointed that there was no help offered to me when i expressed problems with accomodation. I think that it is a poor show when he is making so much money from international patients now that he is not trying to ease that financial burden on them somehow. Good heavens he could easily get a group in one month and treat only them and pay for somehwere rented or at least organise it for them.

I will now have to start again in Berlin and have asked that he reduce my consultation fee because of this and also my blood test interpretation as i will have to ask another doctor to do this but he is not budging. He says it was my choice to come to him and my choice to leave.

There is also a question of being charged twice for the infusion material which has not been satisfactorily explained due to the language problem.

One issue which the doctor seems to be annoyed over is that at my second appointment i was given all of my medications by the pharmasist and took them with me to my hotel instead of leaving them with him. I usually do not leave things with other people especially if i pay a lot for them prefering to take responsibility myself.

I feel that the money was wasted and that there has been no effort to negotiate over the bill which has left me not sure what to do. I did tell him that the dispute will be made public and that here are people planning on seeing him in the future. I leave it to you here to judge.

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UnexpectedIlls
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This is not good... kind of helps me with my decision [Frown]

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"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

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mati
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It is also my impression that the BIONIC 880 will work if it is built up slowly and that the reason for the expensive infusions is due to using the machine intensively so that there are a lot of toxins produced. On reflection I wish i could have bought a machine for use at home with another person or 2 to share. I do believe that it is effective.
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sixgoofykids
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I'm sorry you are having a dispute and thank you for sharing some of it.

It doesn't change my decision in any way. I expect for the infusions and other treatments he will do to cost money. I don't expect it to be cheap or to have discounts because I'm an international patient.

I don't expect him to take time with me if I'm no longer a patient.

I also don't expect him or his office to help me with lodging difficulties.

I am glad the machine works quickly and that Dr. W has developed a way for it to work.

Again, sorry you are having a dispute. It sounds like much of it should be with your friend. [Smile]

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UnexpectedIlls
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what are you being infused with???

I got a little nervous from that post because it seemed like Dr W doesnt explain anything and you cannot understand anything that is being said to you....

Oh Industry... lol

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"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

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Gabrielle
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Mati,

I cannot believe what I read here and - although I don't believe in this Bionic thingy - I feel forced to defend Dr. W. - at least in some points.

1. First, it's not Dr. W.s fault that the weather was cold and wet. Everybody who plans to do camping has to take the weather and the season into account.

2. Second, it's not Dr. W.s fault that you couldn't do your dairy, gluten and sugar free diet. If you need a restricted diet as this one then you have to plan ahead and book a self-catering apartment. I'm on the same diet as you and this is the only way I can travel nowadays - no matter where I go.

3. 59 Euros a night for a hotel is a reasonable price in Germany. But you could have tried the youth hostel - they are cheaper.

4. You said: ``I pointed out that Germans speak English as a second language and that English is in fact the business language.'' AAARRRGGGHH! Yes, some Germans speak English - others don't. We are not obliged by law do do so! English CAN be the business language in international companies. Dr. W. is a German doctor in a German town- he is no industry tycoon! Why on earth should he be obliged to speak perfect English??? Which foreign language do YOU speak fluently?

5. You said: ``he continues to say that he has no responsibility to try to communicate with me an international patient in English''. Yes, absolutely! When you go and see a foreign doctor in his own foreign country then it is solely YOUR responsibility to fix the communication problem.

6. You said: ``I think that it is a poor show when he is making so much money from international patients now that he is not trying to ease that financial burden on them somehow.'' Doctors are NOT in the tourism business. They usually don't take care of your accommodation. But maybe he would have done it if you had asked him BEFORE you came to Pforzheim and give him some time to do it. But again: this is not his job!

After reading your post I must say that your trip was not well planned and you cannot blame anybody else than yourself for that.

As to your other complaints I cannot say anything because I have trouble to understand exactly what happened. Seems that my English is too bad...

Gabrielle

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sixgoofykids
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Unexpected, I believe it's magnesium infusions ... maybe glutathione .... stuff to help replenish what the Lyme has taken away. It's part of the treatment. His treatment is not "just" light.

There are also homeopathic products used for detox.

Nana seems to be happy with Dr. W's English though it is his second language. I can understand why Dr. W wouldn't go to the trouble to speak English with someone who is no longer a patient.

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oxygenbabe
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I can't believe Mati's post either. Mati, no matter what else is going on with you, please stop blaming others for your problems (your friend, his bad driving, the weather, and the doctor).

Why should the German doctor, practicing in germany, have to be fluent in English in case international patients come to him, which is basically because of Gigi anyway?

For goodness sake WHY should he have to help you, a stranger, with accomodations???? I've never heard of such a thing. I'd be outraged if I were the doctor.

Camping when you're sick is not a great idea.

If you have a specific diet you need to bring those provisions with you for at least a few days or a week so you are not caught short.

If he starts getting a big flow of English speaking patients perhaps he can hire a bilingual staff person. But who knows if he will get such a flow.

I don't understand the rest of it (double charge for infusion, or what was going on with pharmaceuticals) but your sense of entitlement is off base.

I hope you get better in any case, whatever you try.

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NanaDubo
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I hope I do not sound unkind but some of what I have read is ridiculous. I would not travel to NY to see Dr. H or to WA to see Kr. K and expect them to find accommodations for me.

Some people here speak English and some do not. I do not think we have any right to expect to be catered to and I am embarrassed when I run across this.

In restaurants I hear Americans trying to order food, thinking that the person waiting on them will or must understand them if they push hard enough.

I find Dr. W's prices reasonable and lower than most doctors I have seen in the US.

I have found that if I am unassuming, polite, and behave as though I am the foreigner here (not the other way around) that I am treated very kindly and have not had one problem.

As six mentioned, a trip like this must be well planned out.

My opinion of Dr.W holds, he is a good doctor, a kind man, sensitive to expenses and in my estimation is not a wealthy doctor. Certainly not a travel agent - sorry.

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m0joey
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I've been communicating with mati in the last few weeks, and I'm at least glad to hear that she thinks the traetment works.

I've also been worried that the intensity and impacted timing of the treatments might be too much for a patient that is really sick. We've been having trouble detoxing for all these years; common sense says our detox pathways would be overloaded if it tried to get rid of everything within a few weeks no?

This isn't to say I'm not willing to try it. I've set an appointment in 3 weeks. I just have my concerns for overburdening the organs, and all the extra infusions sound like they might be put in place as a compensatory measure rather than "support" for the dump of toxins from the bionic treatment.

Not to defend mati's rationale, but I just wanted to say spending thousands to go on a trip to germany has made me feel really on edge since I made the appointment. Unlike you nana, I can't walk around a few miles a day, and my mom who's planning on going with me isn't all that robust either. I'm frankly worried about the food situation.

Also I can understand that frustrations would ensue if we spend thousands on treatments and can't communicate with our doctor & get results of tests back simply because they're lost in translation. Not that the blame should be put on the doctor, but it can certainly create a sense of powerlessness.

I think this dispute is nothing that will change the minds of ppl that are considering seeing him, unless you're looking for coddling and pampering rather than results. And mati herself said the results seem to be good, she just didn't finish the treatment.

So with that said, the best thing to do, it seems, is just leave this alone and move on.

-joey

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sixgoofykids
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Joey, I think the walking around miles each day is because of the treatments ... I think that's what's so amazing about nana's progress.

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sixgoofykids
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Posting for Nanadubo-

Mati - Although I meant what I said in my post, I would also like to apologize for something. I know that it can be stressful to be far away from home and have difficulty. I do at least want to acknowledge that you had a hard time and I am sorry about that. I have been critical of harsh posts in the past and I do not want to contribute to that. I wish you well. NanaDubo

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lymie_in_md
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Joey, it would be great if you could time your trip with someone from the U.S. who might also be treating so you could have the extra support. I hope that would be the case, its not helpfull to be on edge and treating at the same time.

I feel bad for Mati who hoped for more.

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Bob

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hiker53
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I notice many stay at the Klein's apartment. Does Mrs. Klein speak English? I know I will need some help getting groceries that are dairy free, gluten free etc. and since I do not live in Europe, preplanning for that will me hard.

So, just wondering if she spoke English to direct me to the correct stores or write the words in German. I don't expect her to do everything for me, of course.

Or, does someone know of an apartment in town that has no wireless connections, so I could stay away from EMF and either walk a short distance to Dr. W or take the bus?

Also, those who have made appointments, did you do it by phone or e-mail? Do you take your supplements with you to Germany?

In my next life I will take German instead of Spanish.

Hiker53

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Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

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sixgoofykids
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Yes, she speaks English .... and I believe you can take the bus from her apts. Steel and I are renting a car.

We made our appts. by email.

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SForsgren
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SixGoofy, where will you be posting your trip reports/blog? Best

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Be well,
Scott

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GiGi
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Mati, now that I am catching on to this whole scenario: I recall getting a phone call a few weeks ago from Dr. Woitzel's office asking me if I knew to get a hold of a ....... so and so. I didn't even remember the soandso's name name and started to dig into my e-mails (of which there are mannnnnnnnnnyyyyyyyy! It turned out to be you, Mati All I could find is a 3 line e-mail from you asking me for the website of the Bionic, and saying that you want to start a group with an instrument. And my 2-line e-mail to you answering this question and wishing you good luck.

I got this call from Dr. Woitzel's assistant, per his instructions, asking me whether I knew how to find you since you had not shown up for the appointment; they could not find you at the phone number(s) they had and were concerned to leave a message on a recorder (privacy) -- apparently one of the numbers they called answered with recorder. I am not sure exactly whether they called the assistance of the police because they were concerned, but the word "police" was mentioned. I didn't remember offhand who they were talking about, except that they knew I had something to do with your being there.

That's the office and the kind of doctor you are accusing!!! This, your complaints, are not going to fly with me, because nothing even remotely similar ever happened to us during all the weeks we were there, nor have I heard anything similar from any of the other people that have been there from overhere or from the Germans I "interviewed". Every one spoke of a kind and caring doctor and office. Frankly, I think he is the kindest one I ever met - of the many, many who have crossed my path.

They thought that something had happened to you and were very concerned to find you. I don't know what happened after that. There are at least two e-mail addresses for Dr. W., one of which is private and he never has time to answer, at least not on a daily basis.
I had heard nothing further, until I called there today and you apparently mentioned my name also in connection with mercury.

I would suggest you do a little thinking and apologize to the doctor for, first of all, threatening him with telling all of this on the world-wide web and actually having the nerve to do this today. I would further suggest you pay what you owe and then go to a doctor that makes you happy.

Do not keep this up. He is a most caring and compassionate man. If you are unable to handle your private life, do not blame a man and ruin things for the rest of foreign visitors. He is not going to hire an interpretor and most people are understanding and bright enough, even sick, that in Germany the majority of people still speak German. He treats many more Germans than Americans and Englishmen.

As a further explanation to anyone else interested:

It is the practice at Dr. W's that the patient gets a prescription and goes to the apothecary a few steps away from the office and picks up what is needed for possible short infusions after the treatment. Once he has seen a patient, he has a pretty good idea what is needed. That way they do not have to put up a big supply for all sorts of remedies. My husband had to get some; I got none. They are mainly homeopathics assisting to eliminate about 80% of the after-effects of the treatment. It has been done this way for years and it helps. He speaks about this in his power point presentation at every lecture he gives.

Most people have little if any reaction, and a few very toxic people feel more after the treatment. Let me assure you, it is not an ongoing herxheimer for days. The first or sometimes the second evening one feels more. My husband felt nothing, even after having registered high on the Lyme scale (Biocom).

So the patient brings the few goodies to the office for infusion. Most apothecary prices are the same in all of Germany. The patient pays the apothecary. It is, if I remember,approx. 60 Euros, if that much, for the total infusion stuff. It is neither an actual mag nor a glutathione infusion as are done here in many places. If an intensive detoxing is expected, depending on the conditon of the patient which Dr. W. can readily assess, he does other therapies in between the treatments. Ozone is one of them. My husband had several of them.

The patient also gets a prescription for some other homeopathics to be used during the whole stay and afterward. Simply organ supports. Patient walks over to the apothecary and pays there for it. No other meds, because the photons are starting to do their work.


The doctor charges a fee for the time and material used for the infusion. You have got to have the bottles, the hoses, the bed to lay on and a doctor and/or nurse to find a vein - which is probably the longest ordeal for most that have had years of abx and infusions. Not the doctor's fault, but it is his and the nurses' time. Somebody has to pay for an office to exist. The prices are most reasonable and the office is clean and simple in an older city building, without air conditioning. It's got windows you can open! We were very comfortable there even in 90 degree temp.

Again, we left the infusion supply at the office to be ready for us to get after the photon treatment. The girls have time to prepare the infusion and do not have to hunt around for replacements if the patient has forgotten to bring it in, or managed to ruin them by leaving them in a hot car or next to EMF exposure. It is a very important part of the treatment and it makes sense to me. Mistrust is totally out of place .

No, the official language in Germany has been German and no matter how many Americans or people come from the UK, it remains German for least a few more centuries, I hope. German language and German culture cannot be separated. It pays to learn at least to say hallo or at least make an effort to, even if it sounds Polish. If you don't feel comfortable with that, please go to a doctor who speaks English. I fully agree with Nano's comments about people in restaurants, or in stores.


I know that the girls there were contemplating taking a refresher course in English! Go and expect that from an American or English doctor who treats foreign people. In fact, they were practicing English with me while I was there. Especially the nurses -- I had to interpret everything nurses say while they are trying to put a needle into the patient's arm.
It was sort of fun.

No, Mati, give this a few thoughts. Apologize for your publishing this on the internet and for the comments you made to the doctor. Threats don't usually work well. Pay the office what you owe and be on your way. We all want to keep the doctor's goodwill because he deserves it. This is in extremely bad taste on your part.

We are all lucky to have a doctor who cares as much and, most of all, had enough courage to develop this successful treatment into something that really wipes out Lyme. By the way, I was told today, that the photons keep working weeks afterward. I know they do --- looking at my walking husband!

Take a dictionary! Pick an old used one up at Goodwill if you can't afford it.
Take a dictionary to France - you will not hear a word of English there - they are proud of their language. And Mrs. Klein at the Gaestehaus speaks English with her hands, her mouth sometimes, her gestures, and her heart! I don't think she has enough time to write down a German grocery list! She keeps a clean house and takes care of the garden. And her husband fixes and repairs. I had a dead battery -- I left the light on in our car the late afternoon before we were to take off early in the morning to fly home. I panicked - where is the next gas station??? He said - just give me the key - I will take care of it. By the time I got out to the car in the early daylight, he had recharged my battery - quietly -

And if you want to really help your body to get well, stay in a place where you can cook your own foods, be taken around by your hostess and shown all the favorite supermarkets, and stay in a spanking clean and most comfortable place with the cleanest beds ever - go to the Gaestehaus. She literally, as most Germans do, boil their laundry/linen at 95C - water boils at 100C!


Do not stay in a hotel in the city unless you can afford the top line, because in good old Germany, Sunday is still a day of rest; the city sidewalks are rolled up on the weekend and it is as dead as a doornail. No or very few stores are open --- So at least stay at a place where you have a lovely countryside, a restaurant or two or three, fresh air, and a place to really recover until the next treatment. Grocery stores close much earlier - at least by 8 PM. Eating out, living without a kitchen, gets real old hat after the second day away from home - at least for me. Restaurant food - what's in it? At which factory was it prepared? During that time, your body is working overtime and you need all the support with good food, good water, etc. You pay for every 4 oz of water in a restaurant! There is no glass of water for free in any restaurant. You pay 1.50 Euro for an 8oz bottle of water in a restaurant - no matter which one.

My husband and I are able to do things we do because I learned early in life to be thrifty. I have researched many of the vacation apartments in the whole area surrounding Pforzheim, and the Gaestehaus is by far the best place to stay. You can either rent a car in town or take the bus or train into town to see the doctor. Trains run everywhere and often all over Germany and Europe! Taking the bus to the doctor is inexpensive and much easier on the Lymed nerves.

The Black Forest is mountainous terrain - so if you want to bike, you need to be in good shape. Buses and trains run always. And it is getting wintery.

Take care.


P.S. I have no time to re-read this - if it sounds harsh - so be it. I get very upset when I read stories like this on the internet, when it simply is one person's input and clearly in an effort to damage someone's reputation. If the intent is to warn people, it can be done privately in a very clean manner.

P.P.S. Medical and Dental prices are set by and controlled by a governmental agency and the doctor has to stay within certain ranges. It is a different story if you go do a completely private clinic for alternative treatment, etc. But no one is left behind for standard medical treatment. Only privately insured
(usually professional and self-employeds) are covered by some of the type of treatment Dr. W. does; most people pay out of pocket for at least the Bionic treatment. He treats all types of patients. If I lived there, he would be my PCP. Myoreflex therapy is now covered I think in Italy and some other countries. Don't know exactly which ones. Germans are working to get this type treatment covered by the German medical insurors. I am not totally up on the finer details, but I have never heard any member of my family living in Germany complain about not getting what they needed, even for repeated and frequent hospital stays or any medical treatment that is standard medicine.

[ 02. October 2008, 04:33 AM: Message edited by: GiGi ]

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nyjohn
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i am sorry if this info has already been posted, but i have a few basic questions regarding the stay in germany for treatments with dr woitzel...

these questions are meant to be asked in general

1) how long to people tend to need to stay there/how long for treatments, again, in general?

2) how much, aside from airfare, does it tend to cost for treatments + gaesthaus? that is also assuming i would not be renting a car.

3) does the gaesthaus have kitchenettes so you can cook your own food?

4) is the health food store easily accessible?

5) regarding the emf exposure- if we are not allowed to use wireless phones nor wireless computers, how do we communicate with our loved ones back home?

6) does the emf exposure include ipods (not iphones)? i have an ipod that does have wireless capability, but i leave the wireless connection turned off. i think, that being there for a month or so, i might go nuts if i don't at least have some music to listen to.

7) what tends to be in the way of the 5% of patients that are not cured?

i am seriously considering going over. even if it's winter. but i have to budget things out because even though my treatments here with my llmd would end up costing too much money and too much time...it is a big commitment going over there for treatment. i have been to germany already for medical treatments, but that was for 10 days total, and i was with my fiancee, and my surgeon spoke great english, and i stayed in munich, where it is easy to find stuff to do and get around.

btw, how far of train or bus ride is it to munich? how about stuttgart?

thanks a lot for your advice!

john in ny state

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do your best to educate the rest because
9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses

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ItCantBeTrue
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Stupid question:

Can the Bionic 880 be purchased an used without going all the way to Germany?

--------------------
IGM positive WB through Igenex:
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sixgoofykids
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1) how long to people tend to need to stay there/how long for treatments, again, in general?

Three weeks.

2) how much, aside from airfare, does it tend to cost for treatments + gaesthaus? that is also assuming i would not be renting a car.

I'm not sure, but I believe Dr. W is 2-3000 depending on the person. Each person is different.

The Gaesthaus cost depends on the room you get. Go to the website and take a look. It looks to be very nice. [Smile]

3) does the gaesthaus have kitchenettes so you can cook your own food?

Yes. The larger rooms have kitchens, the smaller, kitchenettes.

4) is the health food store easily accessible?

I don't know. I believe you can get there by bus from what NanaDubo has said.

5) regarding the emf exposure- if we are not allowed to use wireless phones nor wireless computers, how do we communicate with our loved ones back home?

You can go to the internet cafe in Pforzheim. Nana said they may be providing one wire in the guest house for visitors to use, but that is not a sure thing, right now Nana is using the internet cafe.

6) does the emf exposure include ipods (not iphones)? i have an ipod that does have wireless capability, but i leave the wireless connection turned off. i think, that being there for a month or so, i might go nuts if i don't at least have some music to listen to.

I don't know.

7) what tends to be in the way of the 5% of patients that are not cured?

Again, I don't know.

--------------------
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sixgoofykids
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quote:
Originally posted by SForsgren:
SixGoofy, where will you be posting your trip reports/blog? Best

I'm not sure yet. I will post a link before I leave, most likely on this thread.

GiGi, I have been listening to German tapes. [Smile] I might know ten words before I go over, LOL!

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UnexpectedIlls
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So how much would the total cost be??

Treatment, guesthouse, airfair, Etc????

If I were to go It would be with my fiance and daughter (I have no one to stay with my daughter) My son would stay with my grandparents.... hypothetically IF I considered going.

Is this a 10,000$ trip????

What is the website for the guesthouse?
Thank you!!

--------------------
"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

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sixgoofykids
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The guest house website - http://www.gaestehausklein-dobel.de/

Costs vary depending on room, airfare, etc., so I can't give you a total cost. [Smile] My air fare was about $800.

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steelbone
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plane ticket 800
place to stay 500
treatment 2500
rental car no idea...guess 1000..i'm going with 3 people so the cost should be much cheaper

food for 3 weeks 500..total guess...
100 bottles of wine at diner add up quick [woohoo]

--------------------
All The Best,
Paul
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The harder you work the luckier you get!

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zombie_mummy
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How many Bionic 880 treatments did Mati have before she left?

--------------------
"Be it, don't dream it." -Dr. Frank-N-Furter

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UnexpectedIlls
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Thanks six!! That link is not working [Frown]

May I ask what airline you are using/who you went through??

Do you have any articles you could throw my way about the efectivness of biophotons?... I am having trouble finding stuff on google.

I have been talking with my mom and fiance about this and they think if there is enough evidence that this can work to some degree... They want me to go... And my mom has been very distanced from me with my illness.. and she LIVES with me! lol

so for her to be supportive of doing something like this is HUGE! She also thinks it is avery plausible idea!... my mom is skeptical of EVERYTHING.... I am also VERY skeptical... I ahve been through alot of "miracle" cures since I have becoame sick.

I am still worried about it being able to help someone who is at 10% functioing VS someone who is 70% or more....

Thanks!! [Smile]

--------------------
"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

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steelbone
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shandy send me an email at [email protected]

I can send u my airline reservation info since u would most likely fly out of logan airport..

--------------------
All The Best,
Paul
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The harder you work the luckier you get!

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sixgoofykids
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Shandy, I'm flying Delta Airlines. Try the link again, the first one I posted didn't work, but it works now.

There is simply not much on the Bionic 880 online. Here's a good article about light - http://www.cuph.org/projects/global/material/546/binary/

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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sixgoofykids
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quote:
Originally posted by UnexpectedIlls:

I am still worried about it being able to help someone who is at 10% functioing VS someone who is 70% or more....

Thanks!! [Smile]

My husband told me I underestimate how badly I'm doing on a bad day. I generally say I vary from 70% - 98% .... he said 45% - 98% is more accurate. [Smile] It's still better than 10% ....

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Sixgoofy !

Do you have to be off antibiotics or supplements completly before you start treatment ...If so HOW long ?

Can you at least take IMMUNE BOOSTERS and cleansers ?

Any input will be apreachiated...

I am more concern about the one that have bartonella and babesia activated -they come back preaty fast.

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sixgoofykids
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I was told by Dr. W. to get off my Malarone and Lariam one week before going. I don't know if it's the same for antibiotics. I was told herbs were fine.

As it ends up, the mold exposure made me too nauseous for the meds and I will have been off them for a couple weeks before. I just started taking my herbs again after having been off them, too, for a couple weeks.

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UnexpectedIlls
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steel will be sending email!!

Six can I have Dr W email so I can contact him???

Thank you

--------------------
"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

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sixgoofykids
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[email protected]

www.drwoitzel.de

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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sparkle7
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I think it's unrealistic to expect that if you go to a foreign country for treatment - that they are going to plan out your trip.

You really have to do the planning on your own. It's alot of work but we are visiting them... If you feel you need a translator, you should make the arrangements prior.

Being in a place where English is not the language can be difficult. You can't expect everyone to speak "your" language. Going to a foreign country for medical care can be stressful. You need to plan it out well on your own.

If you make bad travel plans, I don't think it's the doctor's fault. You really need to have the money to do this properly. I'm sorry that someone here had a problem but you have to make proper arrangements.

You can't go to a foreign country & expect that everyone is going to be helpful. Some people are very nice but you have to do the research & make sure you have everything planned out.

I've been to Europe alot. You need to have an itinerary, extra money, know a bit of the language, etc. It's more involved if you are going for medical help where you may need a special diet, be able to understand the doctor, understand the customs of the treatment protocol, etc.

You really have to plan something like this out. If you are ill, it takes even more planning.

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NanaDubo
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I had emailed Dr. W before coming here that I would be stopping antibiotics three weeks before I left and he said that was fine. I ended up stopping 4-5 weeks prior to leaving.

I am thankful for having had a car for the first two weeks. It was nice to be on my on schedule rather than the bus and train schedule. You can get where you want to go with the trains but it was just a personal choice.

I have gotten along fine this last week without a car but would have preferred to have one the whole time. Renting a car in Pforzheim was about 400 Euro for 2 weeks.

The health food store is about a half hour drive from the Klein's guesthouse.

Dr. W's office is about a 20 minute drive.

I no longer have lyme [spinning smile]

As soon as I let the notion and feelings settle in, I will write more.

Similar to six, I think I gave my self more credit in terms of how well I was or was not than my friends and family did.

I have been through a lot on this journey and just need some time. I feel very good.

Those of you headed this way, let me know if I can help.

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UnexpectedIlls
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Nana!! That is great!

BUT how can you be sure you no longer have lyme??? I mean do blood tests confirm this??? I dont want to take away from your excitment in ANY way... but I cant help but wonder... especially if I consider going.

--------------------
"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

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sixgoofykids
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Unexpected, blood tests can only confirm exposure. There is no blood test that will show whether you do or do not have Lyme. Dr. W. uses energetic testing. It's a hard concept to understand, for sure, but once you have it done, it's very convincing.

For example, my daughter was getting some twitching. I told her to hold her arm out and I energetically tested her for magnesium. As soon as I had her hold the magnesium, her arm became very weak. She was very curious as to why it became weak as I had not told her anything about what I was doing in advance. (That's not enough details to energetically test .... just enough to understand the story).

So, Nana no longer tests for having borrelia in her body. That's how it's determined whether you are Lyme-free or not.

BTW NanaDubo [woohoo] [woohoo] [woohoo] [woohoo]

Just a note - I have been receiving a lot of PM's as the time gets closer for me to go. As always, I'm happy to answer everyone's questions. However, many of the questions are the same, so if you can, please post them on this thread. I realize some of you are not wanting others to know you are considering this treatment .. in that case, feel free to PM ... but otherwise, please don't think you're question is not appropriate for this thread.

Also, I will be turning off my PM feature when I leave for Germany. I will probably check this thread while I'm gone and I will keep you posted by blog (which I haven't decided where to have it yet .... waiting to see if someone gets a website up and running, as I'd like to use it ... hubby is also talking about getting me a personal website).

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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Vermont_Lymie
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Sixgoofy,

Have a great time and enjoy the experience in Germany!

Their bread is the best in the world (beer too, but I guess that is definitely off the menu), so if you can handle the gluten, enjoy the food too!

Please let us know where you will be blogging; I will read about your trip with great interest. Be well.

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UnexpectedIlls
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Six, Thank you for that explaination!!

I am just confused as to HOW you can be free of lyme when everything we know tells us that we CANNOT be rid of it ever....

It gets very confusing for me... I dont know, I am happy for Nana though!

--------------------
"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

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Ocean
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nana,
I'm so happy for you! hurrah!!!

I appreciate all of your updates, I think we are all excited with your progress in such a short time, it's nothing short of amazing!

take care,
Ocean

--------------------
http://www.healingfromlymedisease.blogspot.com/

Sick since 1996...Diagnosed 10/2008

IgM:23-25 IND, 31+++, 39 IND, 41 +++
IgG: 31 IND, 41++, 58+

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sixgoofykids
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Unexpected, that's why we're looking for alternatives to abx ... we KNOW the best we can get with abx is remission. [Wink]

Vermont, I can eat gluten now .... but I know Dr. W tests you for foods you can't eat through treatment, with my past gluten intolerance, I am fully expecting not to be able to eat it while I'm there. [Frown] Hopefully, towards the end. [Wink]

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nyjohn
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i know someone asked this before, but i do forget things and am kind of a spaz...

how much is the bionic 880 if you get one over there, and can you buy it through dr woitzel's office to bring home?

if not, can you have it shipped to his office?

thanks a lot, again

john

--------------------
do your best to educate the rest because
9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses

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Ocean
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Just wondering, does anyone know how long Nana has had Lyme? I'm awaiting lab results, but pretty sure I have it, tested postive with electrodermal testing, ect. If I get a positive with IGENEX, then I will know that this is what has been wrong for the past 12 years. Will the Machine take longer to get the Lyme out for someone who has had it for over a decade?

Thanks!
Ocean

--------------------
http://www.healingfromlymedisease.blogspot.com/

Sick since 1996...Diagnosed 10/2008

IgM:23-25 IND, 31+++, 39 IND, 41 +++
IgG: 31 IND, 41++, 58+

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m0joey
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I posted earlier that I was planning on seeing Dr. W on Oct. 23rd, but I'm sad to announce I'm most likely going to push back my appointment.

I feel hesitant to announce how I came to this decision, but I hope you'll all keep an open mind.

I started seeing a Dr. B--a chiro--that does NAET & muscle-testing a few weeks ago. She works very closely with Dr. H, and he puts a lot of faith in her work. She has been testing me for sensitivities to supplements & ABx, as well as which ABx work or don't work for for borrelia and the co-infections. Dr. H has been more than willing to work with her recommendations in fine-tuning his antibiotic regimen.

With that said, she muscle-tested me on Tuesday to see if I was ready to get treatment with 880nm light in 3 weeks, and the answer was a clear no. That was without doing further research on the bionic.

Then in the last 2 days, she watched the video I sent her on the bionic 880 & told me she is very knowledgeable about this "entrainment therapy". In physics, entrainment is the process whereby two interacting oscillating systems assume the same period, and that is what the bionic 880 creates between the organism & the light frequency.

Today, she muscle-tested me again with this knowledge in hand, and she said I wouldn't be ready until the last week of November at the earliest.

Some of you may scoff at how much weight I put in her energetic testing. I would have too a few months ago. I've seen my share of charlatans & money-grubbers & become jaded, but she is clearly as good & as well-respected as they get in this field. She thinks we need to spend the weeks before I go detoxing because my body has a genetic weakness in detoxing (she didn't know this, but my HLA-DR is multisusceptible, so yes i have major trouble detoxing). She was afraid that if I went in a few weeks, my body wouldn't be equipped to remove the pathogens the bionic treatment knocks out.

IMHO, this addresses some of the concerns that Shandy and others have had about the readiness of patients that are well below the 70-80% wellness that gigi, six, and nana are hovering around, for the bionic treatment. And frankly, I would think that if you subjectively think you're at that range, you must be feeling pretty good regardless of what the friends & family say. After all, we know our bodies the best. I would say I'm still at 50%-60% functionality, so for me, doing another 2 full months of detox work before the treatment makes sense.

This is just my opinion, and I'm sure some will flout the rationale behind my decision, but it's objective enough for me. Dr. B believes by going in november of later, I'll be able to knock out the borrelia once & for all. I think so too.

-joey

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sixgoofykids
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Well, Joey, I was looking forward to meeting you over there. [Smile]

I'm glad you're still planning on going. It makes sense that you would want to detox what's already a problem before you go. That is why I was so glad to have found the mold and to be able to take care of that prior to leaving .... it's one less thing to handle over there. Today is my first day off painkillers in a couple weeks time. [Smile]

I wouldn't go so far as to say I'm feeling pretty good .... I'm just not feeling as bad ..... if that makes sense. I have felt pretty good, but not lately.

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oxygenbabe
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Joey, your decision sounds good and wise. Your practitioner(s) sound excellent.

Six goofy it will be interesting to hear your report.

Re borrelia gone or not, who knows. If you feel good, that's what counts. Maybe energetic testing reveals whether or not the borrelia is active.

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mati
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Have not had time to write as I traveled back home today from Germany.

I felt that I had a duty to inform others who are thinking of going. My intention was not to slag off the doctor, I thought I simply reported what happened . However, I did expect to be pulled over the coals by those who will not tolerate anyone who has doubts or who questions anything here.

Nothing has been said regarding my concerns that I was not told to wait to get my amalgams out before starting treatment and that I very easily may have wasted the money for this reason alone. Has anyone been advised that they are doing it too soon I wonder. I had other worries about my adrenal glands but I felt that was waived aside.

I think that what is becoming clear is that if one is a straightforward case then things are different. And of course those who have improved and were satisfied with things say positive things. I am not satisfied however, and even if my views that doctors who are making a lot of money from their patients and have the ability to help with accomodation problems for international patients through knowing the area and having many contacts especially if one of those patients runs into problems, is off the wall, then that should not mean that my other concerns can be brushed aside. As for the language problem you have to know Germany to understand just how accepted it is for them to speak English in business matters and anyone who is running a clinic is in business. My own German landlord is extremely embarrassed and sorry that he cannot speak much English when dealing with me, but we manage as I do speak a little.

Well I knew I would get grilled. Thankyou for the person who has a little sympathy for me now that I am worse. The doctor is dealing with some very sick patients I presume from what others are saying. In many cases there will not be the need of help to enable people to have his treatment. In serious cases, I think it is pretty hard if a doctor is not willing to go beyond the line of duty. But maybe this is a cultural thing. Maybe this is how it is in the US, if you have money then you can pay and you don't expect any help from a fellow human being. It is not like this in England where I know a doctor who takes some very sick patients into her house to treat them and I have been treated myself for free at a time when I had no money.

I gave the doctor a chance to negotiate with me but he says I must communicate now in German. I said I would put my experiences in public which I have already said I felt a duty to do so. I think there are some serious questions about when a patient is ready for treatment and are in a place where they can respond. I had 2 treatments and felt nothing apart from an improvement in my wrist pain which leads me to think that the treatment is effective. Another thing I noticed is that my small red dots on my skin went really dark red during treatment with the BIONIC.

I think that caution is needed till more very ill people report back.

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UnexpectedIlls
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Mati, You are worse now than before you left?

--------------------
"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

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mati
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Yes the pain in my wrist and arm are worse, I can barely use my arm now. It did improve then it got worse. My knee joints are worse too. For a couple of days last week i had trouble walking, they have never been as bad.
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Gigi what is in the Biologo Detox? How much does it cost roughly?

Thank you,

Angelica

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Looking
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Mati, sorry you didn't get what you hoped from the treatment.

I think it is beneficial to know that if one can't complete the treatments entirely, that there is a risk of feeling worse, so thanks for sharing that.

I wonder if it's similar to not completing a course of antibiotics so all you do is activate the lyme and make it worse.

I wouldn't go unless I had ensured I could complete all necessary treatment.

And if you do have a doctor in England who personally cares for patients in her own home, that is an extremely rare thing -- I know of none where I am who would do that.

Posts: 590 | From Canada | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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