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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Bionic 880 thread - promise I won't delete it (Page 7)

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Author Topic: Bionic 880 thread - promise I won't delete it
m0joey
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Oh and I"m leaving tomorrow =)
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zombie_mummy
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Just to let you all know, the UK distributor

http://www.tradeandinnovationltd.co.uk/index.html

has informed me that there is a Dr. P. in Oxford, England who is treating Lyme with the Bionic 880.

--------------------
"Be it, don't dream it." -Dr. Frank-N-Furter

http://www.lymefriends.com/profile/zombie_mummy

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Ocean
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Thanks Joey,
I will bookmark your blog. Have a safe trip, I wish I were going with you! I'm so excited for you and hope (like the others who have gone before you) that you get well with Dr. W and staff.

Take care,
Ocean

--------------------
http://www.healingfromlymedisease.blogspot.com/

Sick since 1996...Diagnosed 10/2008

IgM:23-25 IND, 31+++, 39 IND, 41 +++
IgG: 31 IND, 41++, 58+

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Alv
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No Mojoe !
I do not mind at all.

It reinforces what GIGI says OVER and OVER and OVER!!
Please let us know how you will be doing!

BEST wishes on your recover journey from this horrible disease!

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lymie_in_md
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Good luck Joey and just come back in full health. [Big Grin]

--------------------
Bob

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Angelica
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m0joey have a fantastic trip!!!!
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liesandmorelies
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Hi Mojoey,

Joey,

Have a wonderful and safe trip over. I will be checking your blog to see about all the progress you are going to make(think positive)!!!!!!

We are all wishing you well and can't wait to hear of your experience.

Thank you in advance for sharing! [Wink]

Elizabeth

--------------------
aka: Lyme Warrior

In order to do "real" science, you have to have a "real" conversation with nature.

Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History!

"Just Demand your Rights"

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Doomer
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MOJOE,

I tried to send you a PM but your box is full.

Wishing you a healing and healthy trip.

doomer [Smile]

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jamieL
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I hope you have an awesome trip, Joey! I'll be reading your blog for updates.

--------------------
Diagnosed with :yme and mycoplasma pneumonia Aug 08.
Treating with Doxy and Ceftin ever since. 15 sessions in hyperbaric o2 chamber

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jamieL
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Stupid question about how the bionic 880 works-

It's supposed to help damaged cells repair themselves, right? That sounds cool but...

...does it kill pathogens? Is it really killing Lyme and co?

--------------------
Diagnosed with :yme and mycoplasma pneumonia Aug 08.
Treating with Doxy and Ceftin ever since. 15 sessions in hyperbaric o2 chamber

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hanginginthere
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Have a safe and wonderful trip! My best wishes for great healing and rest (and a little exploring the countryside too...of course, with your pants tucked in your socks [Wink] )
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GiGi
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JamieL, no question is ever stupid.

The light photons from the Bionic are absorbed, they multiply and distribute themselves - anarchistically - without any certain pattern - in the body. They know where to go. Via the nerve branches of the nervous system they arrive in the brain. Here they have a regulating effect on the production of our hormones, such as endorphines and cortisol.

By going this route, the photon therapy has a positive influence on our three central control systems: the nervous system, the hormonal system and the immune system. These systems start going back into full action again. Combining the photons with the frequencies put out by the nosodes, the borrelia and their relatives are being eradicated. It is so simple and so phenomenal. It's easy science for me.

Cells without light are dead cells. Some of our cells are filled with toxins and pathogens and have little, if any, light left. Toxins stays in - nutrients stay out. The photons restore them. We cannot live without light.

Normally we take in photons through sunlight and through our food. But our modern eating habits, the way food is grown, and the environments we live in changed all that.

We are loaded with environmental toxins, gases, metals, artificial light, carbon dioxyde, mercury -- all have an ongoing negative effect on us. We add physical and emotional stress, addictions, social and professional burden, childhood trauma, present conflict and crisis situations. And we live in a society that makes high demands on us - higher, faster, further........

Lack of photons easily manifests in our body as different diseases ---- ours happens to be Lyme Plus. I call it Lyme Plus now, because it never is just Lyme and co-infections alone that cause us problems. It took me a while to figure that out, and only after having suffered long enough did I come to that conlcusion. The photons take us a great step forward by at least eradicating the worst of them.

Right now I am treating my husband for metal and mold toxicity (with the Bionic880) and I will keep doing it until he can run a marathon again! Intruder after intruder, toxin after toxin. All very carefully.

So, yes, the roundabout way - the photons take the bugs out from where they don't belong. And our immune system, etc. keeps things running and improving after the treatments stop, if we do things right. Sort of waking all things up and bringing order back into the system.

Take care.

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lymie_in_md
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I agree with GiGi in the mechanism but will add the following based on papers on the biophysics institute in Germany. http://www.lifescientists.de/

According to some of the papers it alludes to light entering a cell, if the light is fully satisfactory in the cell it cascades to the next cell. They called it a battery effect if you push positive electrons through a battery if the battery is at capacity the energy flows out the negative pole (not sure if the polarity direction is correct -- just concept). To the next cell. I'm guessing that is the flow electronically. Same happens for light it is still a form of electro magnetic waves. So in a sense it piggy backs from a cell with enough energy to the next cell if there isn't enough energy only the amount needed is absorbed anything left is passed.

The bionic 880 is a very powerful LED unit applied to chakra locations can affect the whole body with light even though the penetration of the light might only be an inch into the body. It is the cascading affect taking it deeper in.

Hope I've got it right, it is just my understanding.

--------------------
Bob

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zombie_mummy
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It's really great to hear these positive reports. I would like to head over but fear I am too ill to handle the journey.

I'm trying to make a list in my foggy head of what I might need to receive the treatment here (in Toronto, Canada):

1) Bionic 880
-the manufacturer in Germany will send it to Canada for 6400.00 EUR

2) Borrelia nosodes
-they also said they can send these along with the machine for an additional 60.00 EUR

3) A willing practitioner who can oversee the protocol, do the energetic testing, and assist with detox (magnesium iv's, etc) after each treatment.

What else?

Should I stay out of the city during Bionic tx to avoid EMFs?

--------------------
"Be it, don't dream it." -Dr. Frank-N-Furter

http://www.lymefriends.com/profile/zombie_mummy

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herxuk
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The Bionic 880, is aprox 4 times more powerful than the Lt Works. Maths done by Spouse.

One would expect more from a machine costing 40 times more. ( UK PRICE ) Unavailable to buy to general public, as of head office.

A Practitioner's care is needed, and advised for the treatment of Bb, with the Bionic, ( there words ) not mine.

Let's ALL remain hopeful. Yes, all of us.

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nyjohn
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i know it is said that when out with the lyme, out with the coinfections...
but
i am wondering, if a patient is given lyme nosodes, then why not babesia, etc, nosodes as well?

thanks

--------------------
do your best to educate the rest because
9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses

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SForsgren
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I am leaving on Friday and start the Biophoton treatment next Monday. Will report back.

--------------------
Be well,
Scott

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sunshinyday
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Wishing you a healthy successful trip!

Gail

--------------------
Gail

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sixgoofykids
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John, Dr. W does not currently have babesia nosodes .... they just don't have coinfections over here like we do.

I plan on buying coinfection nosodes when I get back.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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ElaineC
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quote:
Originally posted by sixgoofykids:
John, Dr. W does not currently have babesia nosodes .... they just don't have coinfections over here like we do.

Oh yes they do!!! Co-infections are a huge prob all over Europe...in fact it is claimed that the European strain of Babs is far harder to eradicate!! It's just that most European docs don't acknowledge co-infections or are just not educated enough about them!

If co-infections were not a prob then the majority of European Lymies...myself included... would be recovering a lot quicker! [Smile]

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Gabrielle
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quote:
Originally posted by sixgoofykids:
they just don't have coinfections over here like we do.

We have but the medical community is still in denial about this fact.
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SForsgren
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The interesting point is that it seems that when Dr. W treats for Borrelia in European patients, they generally improve/recover significantly.

With US patients, it doesn't seem to be quite as easy though progress is quite evident for those that I have spoken with that have gone.

I don't think we know all of the reasons why. Bioengineered Borrelia? Coinfections? Other factors? Different strains? Too many antibiotics?

The good news is that it seems that even for the US patients, good progress is more the rule than the exception.

--------------------
Be well,
Scott

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lymeparfait
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SForsgren,

Wishing you success in Germany!

We'll be waiting for your posts!

lymeparfait

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nyjohn
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so speaking of antibiotic use, what does dr woitzel consider a long term abx regimen that would halter recovery?

3 months, 6 months, 1 year, years?

--------------------
do your best to educate the rest because
9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses

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hanginginthere
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Scott~ have a wonderful and safe trip! How I wish I were going too [Big Grin]

I hope that you experience tremendous healing. What a wonderful thing this could be.

Thanks for sharing with us.

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zombie_mummy
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quote:
Originally posted by SForsgren:
The interesting point is that it seems that when Dr. W treats for Borrelia in European patients, they generally improve/recover significantly.

With US patients, it doesn't seem to be quite as easy though progress is quite evident for those that I have spoken with that have gone.

I don't think we know all of the reasons why. Bioengineered Borrelia? Coinfections? Other factors? Different strains? Too many antibiotics?

The good news is that it seems that even for the US patients, good progress is more the rule than the exception.

Perhaps the reason for treatment failure or a later relapse could be related to still having root canals or mercury fillings in place????

--------------------
"Be it, don't dream it." -Dr. Frank-N-Furter

http://www.lymefriends.com/profile/zombie_mummy

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SForsgren
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Sure. Possible. Heavy metals are a big issue and Lyme is generally not Lyme alone. I think we have to address all of these issues. Dr. H in NY has an excellent 15 areas that he looks into with patients and it is not all about killing infections. There is much more to it.

--------------------
Be well,
Scott

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joylindy
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For what it is worth, in a conversation with Dr. W. he said that he has the nosodes for the common coinfections in Germany (Chlamydia and one other that I can't remember), but often Americans do not test positive for those. He did not at that time (3 weeks ago) have nososdes for Babesia and Bartonella, the more common American coinfections. Since I did test positive energetically (not on the Western Blot) for babesia before I went to Germany, I plan to be tested with a babesia nosode to make sure that this is taken care of as well, or treat it with the Bionic.

I continue to feel a significant difference after the 5 treatments. My energy is better and my head is clearer. Best of all, my depression is lifting, and I actually feel good much of the time, not just physically, but emotionally. I know that I have other issues to deal with, but I am on my way. All my friends notice a real difference in me, and their joy for me has added to the delight of this experience.

I do notice that one of my 2 root canals is bothering me now, after being quiet for 10 years or more. This is interesting to me! At any rate, it was a bad root canal, done and re-done because the dentist left a tip of his instrument in the tooth. I plan to have it extracted this fall, and maybe the other one too.

I bought a machine but so far I still test (with the biotensor and borelli nosodes) that the lyme is all gone. I am so grateful, I don't have words.

Before I went to Germany I saw Dr. J. in Kansas, and I plan to go there again next week to be re-evaluated and show him my new light machine. I will be re-taking the CRT test and be retested energetically for borelli, babesia, parasites, candida, and the other things I am dealing with. Then I will choose the nosodes to work with next with the machine.

I am excited to be on the road back to health. Again, I thank GiGi and Dr. W. I am so grateful that Gigi posted her experience so faithfully here on lymenet or I would still be going down instead of up in my healing.

I wish you well, Scott, and all who are either there or are going over.

Blessing to all on your healing journey... [Big Grin]

--------------------
joylindy

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Angelica
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Thank you for your report and I am so glad you are feeling good!
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nyjohn
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joylindy,
that is awesome!!!!

i am wondering, if you can tell me, where can i purchase the nosodes for babesia (and hopefully mycoplasmas)?

thanks, and congradulations on feeling better!

--------------------
do your best to educate the rest because
9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses

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GiGi
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My husband had all co-infections.

I explained yesterday at length that the biophotons start to turn on the immune system. For some people it happens quicker, for some slower. The photons keep working. Read that post, please.

The only nosodes that we applied were the Bb into the very high potencies, as well as a vial containing real/sterilized bacteria of Borrelia afzelli and the Bburgdorferi.
There are other ways to cover the related infections, but I won't go into that here, because we didn't need that and it is not really necessary.

The photons do not distinguish between the different toxicities. They go to work wherever they need to - again read my post of yesterday. I think it is in the Marnie's lizzard thread.

Even some of the heavy metals are coming out at the same time. Even some of the fungi are caught in the die-off. As is the mold. But if the infestation has been long and heavy, it will take longer. I am still treating my husband for metals and fungi and mold. The borrelia and all relatives are gone. They came together and they left together, as far as I am concerned. That's the first thing Dr. W. told me. The different infections and toxins do not live in separate little boxes in the body -- Remember I have been posting here for years - they all hang out together in one contaminated terrain.

I acquired all the co-infecion nosodes up into the most diluted potencies. They test negative every time I test them. They test negative with ART by the experts. Both my husband and I had seven co-infections - we share a lot!!!!!! None remain - nearly four months after the last Bionic Lyme treatment. Dr. W. cannot say how many months it would take to overcome the effects of longterm abx. He just says that it takes longer.
Makes perfect sense: there is a lot more residue to clean out. I would not be surprised that heavy drug intake besides abx would also slow things down a bit.

Different people - different reactions/results.

All other toxic loads, as Scott said, play a role. I would say an enormous role. Yes, the metals definitely are helped by the photons, but they are not out of the body yet the day you finish your last Lyme treatment. The stuff keeps coming and coming, but in tolerable amounts. That helps to avoid organ problems, etc.

I consider the photon treatment a very gentle treatment -much more gentle than anything that I have done or been done to. Dr. K. considered me a person that can take a bit more than others, and I was put to the test many times.

I will do photons any time before any other treatment modality - neural therapy, HBOT, ozone injections, prolo therapy, on and on; I can't and don't want to remember all of them.

Just so glad, so glad, so glad that there is a Bionic. The fact that my husband needs no special agents to move the metals out - ; No DMSA, no DMPS, no ALA, no NAC ---- that he needs no special agents to move the mold and fungi out --- is enough for us to be grateful forever. Mop-up ia the most important and assuring that elimination functions well, etc.

All thanks to photons and a well constructed light instrument.

For those who do the power comparison with other lights, there are more factors involved with the Bionic than merely power. I talked about that so many times. Stronger does not make it better.

Read some of the old posts -

Here is my response post from yesterday on Marnie's wonderful Lizzard thread: see next post.

Take care, and have loads of fun, Scott, most of all in the German bakeries! Wish I could roam around with you overthere. And give the Klein's a big hug from us.

Take care.

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nyjohn
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thanks gigi, again

sorry i didn't read back into the other posts and retain much- the head gets a bit spinning sometimes with all that info!!

i am excited for my trip...getting prepped as much as possible!

--------------------
do your best to educate the rest because
9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses

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GiGi
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Here is my response to Marnie's great lizzard post:

"Thank you, Marnie.

"Let There Be Light". It is light that does it - the biochemical process may or may not happen after that.

There is light in our cells. This fact was declared for the first time in 1922 by the Russian docotr, Prof. A. Gurwitsch; It was rediscovered in 1975 by others under the direction of Prof. Popp. and demonstrated clearly using the most up-to-date research methods.

According to these, the cells of all creatures emit light, albeit an extremely weak light, which is intensified during cell division, damage or cell death and extinguished when the cell dies.

Biophoton radiation of living cells isn't just an area of visible light, it serves as a sort of radio communication. The cells communicate with each other -- I have often heard said. Consequently, biological processes in plant, animal and human organisms can be controlled.
This is high order coherent light, much the same as the light from a laser (Bionic is not a laser)
beam and which is suitable for optimal information transfer.

Due to this high level of order, it can create order itself and activate or inhibit biochemical processes. In cancer, for instance, there is a loss of coherence and light storage capacity -- tumorous tissues irradiate differently.

Experiments have shown that healthy cells have the ability to store a lot of light; cancer cells lose their ability to store and their coherence becoming "chaotic". The ability to form a collective with other cells is also lost.

Biophotons can intervene here and create order.
Light particles are responsible for all biochemical events in our body. Life without light is not pos The Bionic880 triggers immuno-modulation, regulates hormone balance and harmonizes body, mind and spirit. sible.


Every living cell - human, animal, plant - dlivers 100,000 light impulses per second. This only ends when dead. If cells are damaged, the intensity of light is less. If light is given to the damaged and weakened cells via photons, the are encouraged to regenerate themselves.

Photons are the language of the cells. Research by the three Russian scientists (Stschurin, Kasnaschejew and Michailowa) showed after more than 5000 experiments, evidence that living cells deliver messages via photons. Each cell receives some 1000 messages per second. The information is distributed with a speed of light of 300,000 kilometers per second.

Our lifestyle explains the lack of photons. I described it yesterday in a post above - eating habits, toxin accumulation, quality of food, environmental toxins, overload of emf, gases, metals, artificial light --- mercury. Add physical and emotional stress, addictions, social and job problems. We live in an environment that is highly demanding ----- "higher, faster, and farther" ---- is not always to our benefit.

Let the lizard live.

Take care."

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djf2005
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hey folks-

glad to hear about everything going so well for everyone...

GIGI-

i know youve been bothered a lot so far, but i am going to have to add to the load if i can.

whats your email again? i cannot find it in this thread. i am looking to get info on the treatment such as dr contact info, how to make an appt, ect ect.

is there any way those who have gone could make a handy guide people could just read and use for any questions they may have?

thatd be great. if not, gigi, if you would give me your email id love to contact you and get as much info as possible..

derek

ps- is there a list anywhere of all the americans we know of that have gotten therapy?

it would be extremely helpful if we could compile everyone's stories in one place

[ 23. October 2008, 05:32 PM: Message edited by: djf2005 ]

--------------------
"Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."

[email protected]

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djf2005
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i found it..
thanks!

--------------------
"Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."

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NanaDubo
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Joylindy - the exact same thing happened to me with a root canal tooth. Mine was very old and poorly done and I had it extracted last week. It had never bothered me before.

My theory is that now our bodies don't have so many things to deal with - lyme - it can focus on other things and they start saying hello. The biophotons are still working and bringing new (or old) things to light. Kind of exciting really.

I expected a lot of pain and having to be very careful of the extraction area. It was almost completely healed in two days.
I attribute the quick healing to the biophotons just as my appendectomy healed so quickly.

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NanaDubo
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NYJohn - I have some information you are looking for but your mailbox is full.
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nyjohn
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hi there nanadubo
thanks a lot!
i just cleared out some space for you...
cheers
john

--------------------
do your best to educate the rest because
9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses

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SForsgren
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Time permitting, I will post some updates here during the stay:

http://betterhealthguy.blogspot.com/

--------------------
Be well,
Scott

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lymie_in_md
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Scott best of luck to you and your quest to get completely well!!! [Big Grin]

--------------------
Bob

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Healing in Santa Cruz
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Hi Scott, Have a safe,wonderful journey.I am looking forward to hearing about your experience.I will be checking you blog. Healing Blessings Joyce
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karatelady
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Have a good trip, Scott. I can't wait to hear how your treatment goes.

Sandy

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GiGi
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djf, do you have all you want to know? In case you don't, here is my e-mail: [email protected]

Take care.

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SForsgren
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betterhealthguy.blogspot.com is the blog and I think you can follow it so that it sends emails if you are interested. I hope to be able to updated it along the way. Thanks for the well-wishes.

--------------------
Be well,
Scott

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GiGi
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quote:
and I think you can follow it so that it sends emails if you are interested. I hope to be able to updated it along the way. Thanks for the well-wishes.


You know that I am interested. So how do I do that so that it sends e-mails? You know I have my limitations when it comes to this sort of thing. Please.

Take care.

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heiwalove
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good luck, scott! i'm very much looking forward to following your progress. [Smile]

--------------------
http://www.myspace.com/violinexplosion

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sixgoofykids
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Even being over here and receiving the treatment, I am still getting so much from those who were here previously. Please, keep posting. [Smile]

As I remember Nanadubo saying, it's a lot. I don't know how to say it, but it's a lot ... emotionally, spiritually, physically, etc. I am clearly feeling better, but going through a lot still. This is simple, but not necessarily easy.

I posted some ponderings on that on my blog this morning.

I'm looking forward to meeting mOjoey today. [Smile]

Again, thanks for the posts all of you who have gone through this .... it reminds me that healing is still to be done even after the borrelia is gone.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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NanaDubo
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Absolutely Six - It feels like your whole life (and especially the lyme portion) gets put through the wash and wrung out. All the grief, fears and every other level is brought to the surface.

It is like a cleansing on so many levels. It continues on after treatment.

Instead of waking up each morning feeling overwhelmed and not even knowing what is going on in my body - pre-treatment - now I wake up and can feel each morning what might need to be tweaked.

My spiritual mentor always used to tell me that when you get rid of something that is unwanted, be conscious of what you fill that space with.

It is an adventure finding new ways to use all the time and energy that I used spend worrying, in fear and running from doctor to doctor.

Today I am going to get large sheets of extremely warm, German clay wrapped around me - called Fango - get covered in blankets and sweat my brains out! Have to keep getting rid of the toxins.

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NanaDubo
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Alv - I can tell you all about it if you clean out your mailbox [Big Grin]
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djf2005
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how do they or are they able to determine the borrelia is "gone"?

also, i still havent heard yet why people have symptoms even though they are cured?

and where did the rest of the 880 testimonials go?

thanks

derek

--------------------
"Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."

[email protected]

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NanaDubo
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djf - Dr. W uses the same machine that tests for different strength of lyme and how heavy a load one has, to determine that there are no strengths still testing positive.

I'm not sure who you are referring to that still has symptoms. In my case, I was ill for 8 years. Wouldn't you think that every single system and organ was affected by that? Lyme can be gone and things still need to heal. Big difference between healing and still having lyme.

If there is collateral damage or detoxing to do, that does not mean one is symptomatic of lyme.

Example, a few weeks after I returned my jaw really started hurting. I went to the dentist and had an old and poorly done root canal tooth extracted.

The dentist commented that he couldn't believe that this tooth hadn't been bothering me for years. It might have been but my body was dealing with the ravages of lyme and couldn't take on one more thing.

Lyme goes, tooth can speak up.

Things shift quite dramatically and one no longer thinks that a stubbed toe or anything little thing that comes up is related to lyme.

I have no symptoms now. I feel as I did before I ever got lyme 8 years ago - a little older maybe [Wink]

This is just my experience. I know of one person who was treated and is symptomatic. Wrong diagnosis before they ever went there or lyme is gone and they still have some other major things to deal with are totally unrelated to lyme. Not sure which.

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djf2005
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thanks for the info.

i still do not understand how it works only that it is the process which the dr uses...

i understand there is a difference between active lyme and giving the body time to heal..

how sick were you before you left, what symptoms did you have, and what was your level of functionality?

where does all that stand now and how long has it been since you were treated?

what are you taking now as far as lyme treatments? (ie supps, abx, herbs, ect)

will you continue to be treated w the bionic?

thanks

derek

--------------------
"Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."

[email protected]

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UnexpectedIlls
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Nanadubo said--This is just my experience. I know of one person who was treated and is symptomatic." Wrong diagnosis before they ever went there or lyme is gone and they still have some other major things to deal with are totally unrelated to lyme. Not sure which.


Why would DR W treat someone with the Lyme protocol if they did not have lyme?? Dr W does test you for lyme when you get there, so I am assuming lyme showed up for this patient and than was treated with the lyme protocol by DR W with the Bionic880. So to say it was the wrong diagnosis would be incorrect. I don't think Dr W would treat someone with the lyme protocol with the bionic if in fact the person didn't show up positive for lyme... at least I would hope not. If this person was energetically tested for Lyme, then that is why this person must have proceeded to be treated.

so maybe it is incorrect to say that they DIDN'T have lyme. Maybe that this particular treatment just did not work for this person. It's ok to say that a treatment that has been successful for some was not for 1 or more. This is true with many treatments including the use of abx.

Either way, I am still highly interested in this treatment. I wish there was a way of knowing what makes it successful for some and not for others...

I am VERY happy that you are feeling like you did BEFORE getting lyme.. That is exciting and I only hope you stay as good or better than you feel now.

[Smile]

--------------------
"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

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lymie_in_md
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Shandy, I know Nanadubo will clarify! How I read what Nana wrote, is the person thought they had lyme as their issue made an appointment with Dr. W. and went to have treatment. Instead upon examination the person didn't have lyme and is still symptomatic. Dr. W. couldn't help this person and I'm guessing Dr. W. refered the person what next to do.

One way to make sure you have lyme to be gotten rid of, is to get a nosode with dead lyme in it and energetically test with someone in the states. Especially If you are not sure! [Smile]

--------------------
Bob

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Alv
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lymie_in_md is RIGHT!

Shandy !
You really need to verify by the muscle test that you have lyme.I already used my llmd to confirm that for my son and my daughter even though I had a BIOFEEDBACK and IGENEX test done.

And that confirmed it for me in 3ways that WE DO HAVE LYME.We also had BULLS eye rashes a few years ago that nobody treated and told us what they were .Were send home with some cortisone cream and that was it.The nightmare than begin as we were sick and were through hell since than.

So we KNOW FOR SURE THAT WE HAVE LYME and company!!

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UnexpectedIlls
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I am not talking about me... I am talking about the woman/man who went to germany, got treated and is STILL symptomatic.


It is said it could have been from the wrong diagnosis... This cannot be if you are energetically tested before treatment by DR W.. It was obvious by Nana's post that this person was treated, because of the statement " I know of one person who was treated and is symptomatic"

Dr W wouldn't have treated this person if they did NOT energetically test for lyme... why would he??? That would be a waste of time and money.

SO... all I am saying is that it's ok that it may not be EVERYONE's answer... because every treatment is like this.

I am not trying to be confrontational at all... [Smile] I am trying to learn about this just like everyone else... you have to take the bad with the good sometimes!

I just wish there was a way to determine if it would work for myself or not.... But like most treatments we don't have it that easy.

--------------------
"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

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lymie_in_md
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Shandy -- I'll start off and say, you want to be sure this is a cure or as sure as you can be. You are looking at this as if you only have one bullet in the gun and it has to hit the target. We all understand the problem.

Getting this out of the way, you are not confrontational at all in my opinion, you just want to be absolutely sure of any decision you make. And there isn't a single person on this board who isn't rooting for you to get well. Me included!

A lot of information is percolating showing promise of this new LED or infrared light in removing lyme from our bodies. Personally, I believe it!

So it is simple : you can't get well with Dr. W. if you have lyme & Co. as your main problem. Again, you get well far more quickly if lyme is the main issue. If the main issue is mercury poisoning, candida, kidneys, endocrine system, liver, intestines, parasites, mold, EMF, dental (tmj, root canals, metals in the mouth, amalgams) on and on ... then those need to be addressed even if you get rid of lyme. Mercury in some can take months to years to remove.

Shandy you can test for many of these things if you get a biotensor IMHO. I believe it is the best thing I've purchased to get well. I wish I knew about it two years ago. I bet GiGi wished she knew about it years before now that she knows the power of it.

--------------------
Bob

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GiGi
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Lyme is Lyme. It and the co-infections are successfully treated (95%) with The Bionic880 Woitzel protocol, including the minor structural work he does.

If, however, you have other problems that were either present before you got infected with Lyme or developed into a bigger problem because of immune dysfunction, these problems will not all disappear with five Bionic/Woitzel treatments.
They need to be attended afterward, if that is the case.

Dr. W. tests to make the diagnosis of Lyme. If Lyme is a factor, even though you may have other problems, he treats the Lyme.

I don't think Nano meant to say "misdiagnosis", she meant that due to other causes, the person was still symptomatic. A single one of all the other neurotoxins can cause very similar symptoms.
Attributing a symptom to a certain co-infection or any other neurological disease, as people are trying to do, in my opinion, is a lost cause. There is no way Dr. K. could ever diagnose a certain infection by a certain symptom or disease. I had all symptoms that one can imagine and he never could figure out what caused what. Drenching nightsweats can easily have other causes besides Babesia. On Lymenet, a nightsweat means Babesia.

There are many factors that can contribute to the same symptoms. If getting rid of proven Lyme does not eliminate all symptoms, or none, or only one, look elsewhere. Treat, treat, all intruders or offenders. There are usually many. I will admit, we would rather not know about them, and try to find some culprit which we think wwe can more easily deal with. This I think is the wrong way to go.

Lyme Disease is a disease brought about by many different factors besides simply a tick bite or person to person infection, or via the dog or the kitty. All these possiblities have to be explored and dealt with, especially if the Bionic880/Woitzel protocol does not succeed.

Heavy metals, fungi/mold, dental infections, bad wisdom teeth sites (still in the mouth or removed long ago), are some of the major ones. Structural problems are a problem. If you go home to the same old EMF exposures, nothing is going to change. No photon will have a chance. Tsome of these usually provide the terrain for the Lyme and Co. to find a place to live. These are all closely linked with any infection.
So -- after Bionic treatment, these may have to be addressed.

Bob said it well, and I will add that the Bionic photons may fix your Lyme, but it will not straighten out a kinked spine or infected root canal. You might have to lend an extra hand there.

Take care.

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bejoy
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I understand from some of Dr. Woitzel's patients that he is interested in treating with nosodes of coinfections, but does not currently have them.

Why treat with lyme nosodes if the light handles all infections on it's own without help? Additional nosodes might be supportive. I'd let the doctor decide on an individual basis.

It might be interesting for someone to bring a set with them to have him check them out.

I'd be willing to help someone going to Germany access them if you have the interest. I am interested in Woitzel's opinion.

--------------------
bejoy!

"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Brussels
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I too first thought all my problems were reduced to borrelia only. Kill the borrelia, and get well again. A tick bite made me down to almost zero energy and dozens of symptoms in very little time, that is why I put all the guilt on borrelia.

After fighting lyme since 2005, I'm now certainly convinced lyme is just part of the puzzle, like Gigi, Bob and others keep saying.

I see around me people getting bitten by ticks constantly, living without any repellents, kids, small kids, old people, they DON'T FALL SICK. It's not uncommon to reach 90 years here (countryside in Switzerland), many do.

Many cultivate their own organic veggies, drink unpasteurized milk from their neighboring farms, don't get vaccinations until they are older, they are outside most of the time, in contact with rain and sunlight almost every day.

I fell sick after my first tick bite. Second tick bite again, very sick very fast, despite herbs and abx. So did my daughter. There must be something else than mere borrelia causing us to collapse so fast.

I'm still pretty sure if I get again bitten, I'll fall sick again as I did last year. Guys that were treated with the Bionic just for borrelia too.

Dr. W. said that, the Bionic treatment won't prevent you from falling sick again if a tick bites you again.

That's why one's gotta keep treating, cleaning the body, and letting time heal what has been messed up after years of borrelia. Years of arthritis, losing loads of collagenous tissue (borrelia does ravage to collagen), these will not be reconstructed by magic in joints and cartilage. It takes time.

If your heart got inflamation for years, it won't just start working well in a day and you'll be able to run a marathon in a week. Maybe permanent damage was already done, who knows?

What messed with my immune system was not borrelia only. It was messed before the first bite. If I were well, I would be like my neighbors, getting constantly bitten and not falling sick, and not worrying about ticks.

I do energetic tests with ticks (and so does the right hand of dr. K. here in Germany), we can 'see' what each tick has energetically. so glad other people are doing that, before I felt like no one trusted what I said because I was a loner here.

Almost 100% of the ticks I found in my area have borrelia. Almost all have bart. The rest varies. It took me time to find a tick without any pathogens (at least, for the pathogens I can test). I thought they didn't exist. They are rare, very rare. Very few don't have borrelia, but can have other pathogens.

My neighbors have an average of 3-5 tick bites a year for each family member. They are being infected with borrelia, I'm pretty sure, much before I moved here.

It's wonderful not to have active borrelia here and then. I have truly experienced that quite for a few times (in between relapses!). No treatment is required, you feel good.

But then I usually get fungal infections active again. And then the fight continues, with the same pattern as lyme: kill, herx, fatigue, improve slowly, shift herbs and homeopathics constantly, magnesium, zinc, Vit E and so on.

To get rid of fungi, I need to get rid of heavy metals. Chelation goes on. Liver, intestines and kidneys get so stressed no one can live a normal life while detoxing these heavy metals, despite innumerous cleansers taken 6-12 times a day (at least in my case). The Photon wave did it softer though, fortunately.

Only recently, I feel less afected by EMRs. Before, they made me feel very sick too. It IS slow.

I feel candida-fungi infections very close to lyme. They can affect almost all parts of your body, from GI, liver, kidneys, heart, skin, brain, uterus, teeth, eyesight. You guys taking loads of abx have to fight candida for sure too.

Someone just told me, fibroids in uterus could be caused by yeast-fungi. I have fibroids. The fight goes on. Next step, finding a remedy for it and test if it will help my fibroids.

Borrelia is certainly NOT my main problem at the moment.

So what? My treatment looks pretty much like a comprehensive lyme treatment. I wonder if dr. W. treats fungi and candida infections too, does anyone know it?

I'm so glad there are others here with their borrelia out (or dormant) and still looking for answers. And very glad Gigi started doing energetic tests too!

Anyowe coming to dr. W. in January?

Selma

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NanaDubo
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djf - As I said, I was sick for eight years and so had about every symptom you can imagine at one time or another. 9 months prior to going to Germany I was bedridden for 3 months. I got better but had great difficulty driving myself places and had very little energy.

By the time I went to Germany in September I considered myself 80% functional. My family would disagree with that and they might be right as they were probably able to see more clearly how I was functioning.

I am taking very few supplements, some homeopathic remedies for organ support during detox and no antibiotics.

I will continue to treat with the Bionic once a month for a while to make sure lyme remains gone and that I continue to test negative for it. As I become better at using it I will most likely use it for other things.

Shandy - Dr. W tests everyone who goes there to make sure that they actually do have lyme. I may have not been clear in my earlier post. He states in his literature that if a person takes antibiotics during the treatment, the treatment can fail. Also, if there has been a misdiagnosis before going there.

He would not treat someone for lyme if they do not have it. He tests for this before anything is done. Concerning the person who posted earlier in the summer who was still symptomatic - my understanding was that the person did have lyme which was cleared but has other issues remaining.

The post was deleted and I do not know what the person has.

I am not saying that there was someone who went there that did not have lyme but was still treated for it. Have I made that clear?

Sorry for any confusion I might have caused. I think what I read in his literature means it is possible someone could go there thinking they have lyme but do not. This would be "wrong diagnosis" BEFORE going there. Again, he would not treat you for lyme if you don't have it.

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oxygenbabe
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Selma (Brussels) I will be eager to hear about your experience with Dr. W.
You seem to live a healthy lifestyle. Do you think you and your daughter have a genetic vulnerability, or when you were growing up you did not lead as healthy a lifestyle as your neighbors?
Also, perhaps if bit since children they developed some type of immunity, who knows.

nana--why would he send someone home and not treat? Seems like he treats more than lyme. Why couldn't he treat her/him for whatever they did have?

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UnexpectedIlls
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Thanks Nana for clarifying! I understand now

Bob-- you are absolutely right.. I am looking for answers eevryday.. I wish I could get muscle tested by someone to be sure of what I am dealing with... It proves hard when I can barely leave the house. Thanks for rooting for me!! [Smile]

My reasoning for wanting to go to DR K was because I thought he could help me indentify what was going on in my body by ART testing, and then hopefully be able to help me strengthen my body... so that maybe I could get the bionic treatment. I figured he would be the best to go to for figuring out what was going on and trying to fix all these imabalances in my body.

At this point my daily job is taking pill after pill, antibiotics that are not helping, supplements, vitamins... I just don't know anymore.

The question is.... how do you know what to treat when you don't really know whats going on inside... even with a + test for lyme. How do you figure out HOW to make yourself well?

99.9% of my fight is for my children, 1% for myself. ( I mean it would be nice to feel well after all) [Smile]

Thanks!

--------------------
"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

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NanaDubo
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oxygenbabe - the old post that was deleted says (to the best of my recollection) that the person had lyme,was treated for lyme and at the end of treatment was lyme free. I do not know what else the person has or had.

Since I was only there to be treated for lyme and friends I did not ask him what other things he treats. He did some great chiropractic adjustments on me though and was able to tell me that the mixed metals in my mouth are a big problem. Since he is not a dentist.... do you see what I am saying?

I don't think we can figure out what a person had, what treatments they received and how they are doing now if they are not communicating that to us. It just leads to speculation and misinformation.

There are a number of people who have been there and returned, a group there now and more people on their way. It would probably be more productive to ask those who are still posting or read peoples blogs to better understand.

If you are asking a theoretical question like - what if someone showed up there sick but didn't have lyme disease, would he treat them? He is a good doctor and just as he sent me to someone about my appendix, I'm sure he would see this person got help. Other than that, I cannot answer.

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Alv
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http://pathogensoup.blogspot.com/

based on mojoys post ...Dr W found out that his Mother does not have lyme even though he though she did.

Also ..I know that I have candida ( cronic -fungys ) based on the test done 13 years ago -thanks to Metal bridges and mercury in my mouth for DECADES.My load on both of them was high as high as lyme when I was tested.

FYI yesterday I took 5 candida force based on biotensor( my load is very high- broke my first biotensor just asking on yeast fungus question).

This is what I am planing to follow right now on candida :
http://www.lifeforce.web.aplus.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=2CF2DE&Category_Code=

I have done all that Olive leaf exstract , GSE , oil of eregano etc...all of them .

I was off any lyme killers yesterday.2 hrs later I had blurry vision , foggy brain and got so confused as when I had active lyme felt like I was herxing for lyme.

But I took candida KILLERS.The reaction was the same .I was writing some checks and got so confused and I could not even write down the numbers and messed up 3 checks and avoided them .


I have felt same on detoxing metals from my brain so killing the parasites on parasites protocoll ( very strong ones) .

I herxed my brains out as I used to on lyme.So killing candida and fungus and detoxing metals is as important as addressing lyme.

Muscle testing showed in my case that LYME metals and FUNGUS/CANDIDA were major.So did BIOFEED back -showed all these goes together and candida was top 5 and cronic fungus above LYME disease findings.( tick borne illnes -lyme disease came out right after CRONIC FUNGUS) in my QXCI test.

I know that metals and candida lowered my immune system to make LYME to come out or get infected from ticks when other people are walking aroung sorrounded from them and do not get sick as I am .

As my bodies level of mercury /metals and fungus lowers so does LYME and coinfections...slowly .I treat them all at the same time.

WHEN I did the major killing 2 years ago without addresing the metals my left kidney shut down from mercury released ( bugs getting killed released it ) I was following a VERY STRONG PROTOCOLL for cancer patient killing parasites without knowing what I was killing ( had no clue about lyme).

They definitly hold into each other.IT IS NOT JUST LYME!!!That is what I found from my eksperience .I am just sharing it.Sorry I am not trying to highjack the thread but mayeb can help somebody else with my eksperience.

I now follow the biotensor /muscle testing metod only .I give my body whatever killers /cleanser/vitamins that need at the certain time and it changes daily .THAT IS THE ONLY metod that I BEILIVE IN on my road to recovery!!!

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NanaDubo
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Momfromtexas -

I don't recall anything about the biophotons making you sicker if you are on antibiotics, just that it won't work. Someone who knows more will come along. I know Dr. W does not use antibiotics because they are not good for your colon.

Antibiotics and killing herbs are be stopped. Any particular medications other than that, I would ask him.

I tried to detox first but with all the things I had, detoxing was not very successful until the lyme got dealt with. If you can detox first I'm sure that's a good thing.

I was off antibiotics for 5 weeks before I went to Germany. I have heard others say they have stopped a week or two before going.

I don't agree that you have to be nearly recovered - don't know who wrote that. There were people there at the same time I was who were extremely ill.

If you search gigi's threads you will find a lot of information.

Hope that helps.

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Tracy9
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Gigi said:

"Attributing a symptom to a certain co-infection or any other neurological disease, as people are trying to do, in my opinion, is a lost cause. There is no way Dr. K. could ever diagnose a certain infection by a certain symptom or disease. I had all symptoms that one can imagine and he never could figure out what caused what. Drenching nightsweats can easily have other causes besides Babesia. On Lymenet, a nightsweat means Babesia."

I think this is a HUGELY important point. My LLD has always said there is NO WAY to tell which symptom is from which infection, because they all overlap like one big Venn diagram.

Frustrating yet comforting, because it takes up sooooo much energy to try and constantly figure that one out!!!

[bonk]

--------------------
NO PM; CONTACT: [email protected]

13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG.

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GiGi
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The best solution I have found to determine what symptom is causing what is using the tensor and my judgement. If my husband would turn up with a yellow complexion, I would immediately reach for all organ support remedies or medicines.

If he has typical symptoms anywhere, I test all the nosodes for the different infections and/or toxins.

If I find that his system is blocked (there a simple tensor test for it), so that his Autonomic Nervous System cannot give the true answer, I use my intuition and find the test vials that cause a change and opens his system. Then I have at least one culprit definitely, and I can go on with the appropriate treatment with the Bionic. Always testing the frequency and other settings for the Bionic with the Biotensor before proceedin.

In the absence of a doctor or practitioner who can energetically test you and - most important -- is healthy enough to do it well, I can answer all my questions now with the Biotensor. We have saved a lot more by not having to go to a doctor or practitioner, because of this.


A good reliable, scientifically well manufactured tensor is best. We purchased the one Dr. W. uses. I had it in my hand once while we were at his office and knew instantly that all others I have tried do not come close to it. So make a wise decision. You will -- if you take good care of it -- use a tensor for many years. So don't waste your money on something that gives you only half the answers. You will save a lot by using it, because you will probably find that a goodly number of the supplements you are taking is not wanted by your body. And therefore you are avoiding some of the setbacks by the incorrect medicines, remedies, supplements, etc.

It takes time to learn using the tensor. It's best to get a good book. I just ordered the English version of the one www.bioplasma.com published in German. I am most anxious to learn more to refine my testing, so that I do not have to have ART, at least not as frequently as we used to. My test results so far agree with ART results. Tensoring takes discipline. Wishful thinking has to be avoided to get true results. And testing is only for the present moment - not for tomorrow or later.

It is important to test yourself first before testing someone else. If your own system is blocked, you cannot test anyone else. There is an order to this process, but it is easily learned.

The reason I could never get excited about any tensor before was that I never used a good one. I had been given some several times that are still somewhere in some drawer. They did not work for me. Then I got the Biotensor, the genuine one - not a copy.

If I am not mistaken, Nano had the tensor she bought tested by Dr. W. and he told her it was not sufficient. Not sure whether it was Nano or not or what kind of tensor she showed him. So pardon.



Take care.


No, I am not getting paid for making this
statement!!!!!!!!!! I know I am going to get shot down again for what I said above, but so be it.

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Tracy9
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Gigi said:

"If you go home to the same old EMF exposures, nothing is going to change. No photon will have a chance. "

Now this one really confuses me. How can one possibly change their EMF field, really? We are all going to be going home to nearby cell towers, our computers and TVs, so this seems impossible.

Why would anyone go to Germany if this were true? So much EMF exposure is out of our control.

--------------------
NO PM; CONTACT: [email protected]

13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG.

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NanaDubo
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Tracy9 - a certain amount of it is in our control. I am getting my wireless internet connection replaced with a hard wire. Until then, I only have it turned on when I'm actually using the computer.

I rarely use a cell phone and do not own an ipod.

There are devices you can buy to put on your computer, telephone, television and even electrical outlets to help with the EMFs. I'm not exactly sure how they work.

I have the information somewhere and will dig it up. Never mind, I just found it.

computer chip, tv chip, cordless phone and holder chips, outlet neutralizer and room neutralizer.

The website is www.wenkert-partner.com

Email is [email protected]

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NanaDubo
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P S I do not sell these devices and am in no way affiliated with the company [Big Grin]
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hiker53
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mOjoey said something that interested me today. He said Dr. W treated for lyme and if we had do-infections like babesia and bartonella the American doctors can treat it.

That sounds a little different from Gigi saying that the co-infections go when the lyme goes. Anyone have clarification?

The person who still has the symptoms was a boy whom Dr. W said was lyme free, but was around too much EMF. That is confusing, too, to be declared lyme free and still have all symptoms. I know the body is complex. I wonder whether the German LTT blood test would have confirmed the lyme free diagnosis.

Again, I think the protocol holds promise and I will keep rooting that those who get treated have lasting results.

Hiker53

--------------------
Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

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lymie_in_md
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hiker53 -- I believe he was talking about clients he'd been treating in Germany when he started talking GiGi and how coinfections worked there. I'm guessing he is learning the American strains are a bit different then what he is used to. That is my understanding of the dialogue thus far. Americans are more difficult to treat then Europeans. And he is learning too. He may also learn how he might tweak his protocol over time to our benefit. In the mean time, getting rid of lyme is a great start.

--------------------
Bob

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GiGi
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Do you think the people manufacturing the Borrelia nosode take it apart into co-infections, etc. The infection usually comes in one tick bite from one tick. That is what is used in the treatment. He applies ten different potencies of the Borrelia burgdorferi nosodes plus the original of a sterilized Borr. afzelli and the original of a Borrelia burg. during all of the treatments.

I have never heard him say that the American doctors should do the rest of the treatment. He may have been referring to the four-months checkups that he does with all the Europeans, or at least the Germans that come to see him.

There is a lot of misunderstanding due to language differences and people should make every effort not to repeat or spread around incorrect information. He told me that the photons do the job re co-infections. My husband had literally all, and I cannot find a single one. I am testing him constantly. As of now, we are down to metals, fungi and mold. Waiting to see what comes next. None of that can be done in three weeks and that is probably what he may have been referring to when he suggested continued treatment at home. It would takes many weeks to stay there and that is not his forte. He can test for it, but the time is not available, nor are the "bodies" ready to do it all at once.

Take care.

He is beginning to be concerned, even while we were there, that the infections from here seem to be stronger. I know from my experience over the years with patients of Dr. K., that the exposure to EMF is much more severe here and started much earlier and long before the Europeans ever had a computer or a cell phone, or even a microwave. We have not nearly the same insulation in our homes here (wiring) as they have in Germany (not sure about the rest of Europe. Our wiring would never pass inspection overthere. I have been hearing this from Dr. K. for many years - it has always created a problem. That is why he is so adamant that we pull the fuses into the sleeping quarters at night - the place where we stay the most hours and not moving around. I have always done that and still do it when I think of it.

I think the amalgams were stopped quite a while overthere, even outlawed, compared to here.

We have much more chemical exposure than they do -

We practically live in the automobile while they still have their annual vacations in the country walking to the stores -- \


The treatment continues and it is noticed that starting the lowest/strongest potencies clear first and slowly move up to the highest potency D200 or K1000. When the highes (most diluted) potency clears, that finishes the treatment.

The patient is then asked to return on a monthly basis to make certain he/she/it stays clear and no infection is evident. He continues that for about four months, regularly testing the patient.

He then recommends further that all patients be tested once a year -- not only for the earlier infection, but as a signal for any infection that can happen at any time after the treatment is finished.

I talked with one lady in Germany, when I "interviewed" her for almost an hour, she was fine many months after the treatment. But had suffered another tickbite a year later and went for another treatment. She then did not bother to go that far away from her home to see Dr. W., but that he referred her to someone near her home to do the treatment.

As I have posted many times, there are many practitioners that own the Bionic and use it for treatment of hundreds of problems, not only Lyme.

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hiker53
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I am not disagreeing with Gigi and Dr. W. I am hoping the lyme treatment works. Just pointing out what m0joey said on his blog today that seemed different from what I had heard before.

If this treatment works and holds I am over there!

I do think that we have too much technology in our world and that is hurting us physically. I know after working in a classroom all day with 14 computers that are programmed to be on all day with a large "SMART Board" that I can barely walk by the end of the day and standing by the SMART board makes me feel ill. These have replaced blackboards and overhead projectors, so there isn't much choice in how I teach.

Anyway, blessings and good health to all of you and may Dr. W be blessed with a healing hand!

Hiker53

--------------------
Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

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