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Author Topic: Bionic 880 thread - promise I won't delete it
GiGi
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Just remembered as I was browsing through other thread titles:

Dr. Woitzel told me recently that they have done comparatives - the CD57 is moving up with the Bionic treatment.

I have never done one - but I guess that this is nice to know for some of you. When I do get a chance to get a word with him, I could ask a hundred questions. But I do respect his time.

Take care.

P.S. My last post above this one is a disaster. It is garbled and all backward. But I do not have time --- so please excuse - there is a life to live beyond Lymenet!

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m0joey
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Hi all,

I had an interesting night. I didn't react the first night after treatment but yesterday I definitely felt a bit strange (almost delirious) and at night I sweated profusely throughout the night. I had to change into 4 different shirts. I never had a prolonged sweat like that, even when the babesia herxing was at its worst.

However, I don't feel ill. This is similar to what others have said. After their "reactions" --since it's not exactly a herx-- they feel fine.

Hiker -- you didnt misinterpret what I said. Dr. W did say that if the symptoms are gone, then the co-infections aren't a problem, but if the symptoms are still there whilst the lyme is gone, then he will see what the problem is and the co-infections can be treated by american doctors. I made absolute sure of this when I was asking about co-infects, and I highly doubt this part was lost in translation.

I heard Nanadubo's tooth infection cleared in 2 days when she went home after the bionic treatment. I have a few bad EBV-related sores near the roof of my mouth from the torturous first few days of getting here, and it's causing really bad ear pain. I really want more photon treatments now to get that cleared up!!!

Cheers,
joey

[ 25. October 2008, 07:43 AM: Message edited by: m0joey ]

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Tracy9
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How far out is he booking now? I can't believe I'm going to say this but I am now thinking of going with a New England group, including Shandy, perhaps Erin, and want to run it by Sara, David, and Melissa as well.

We all want to wait and see how our beloved guinea friends do.....so we aren't thinking of going until spring or summer maybe....but wondering if we think we might want to do so, when should we call????

--------------------
NO PM; CONTACT: [email protected]

13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG.

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m0joey
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hi tracy,

i'll try to ask him on monday if I see him.

I think it's certainly best to come with a group of people. I was talking to Paul last night and he's goin a little cuckoo in the forest. I'm on day 3 so we'll see how long it takes to go full jack nicholson.

Im gonna be ruffling some feathers here, but here are some things to consider before coming all the way here if money isn't easy to come by.

Are you positive you have lyme? Absolutely 100% positive? If so, you do not need the bicom to test for it. The bicom is a 20G machine that some alt docs may own -- or a similar electrodermal test-- back in the states.

On the other hand, my mom tested positive for lyme per asyra, but negative with bicom. Maybe the bicom is far more accurate than anything we have over there? Either way one should consider if a superior diagnostic test is something worth paying the premium of traveling over for.

I think most of Dr. W's help comes in the way of what happens if your lyme is gone and your symptoms are still full blown. With another woman whom is severely ill, she is now lyme-free but symptomatic, so dr. w hooked her up from head to toe with this machine that had frequencies for a bunch of other infections, and she tested to have her biggest problem be a form of strep throughout her entire body.

So you see, the bionic treatment and infusions in and of themselves are IMHO not worth the travel if anyone is still wondering. Like gigi said, even her very young granddaughter could use the bionic. All they do is tape the live vials--which arent in the states--with the different potencies of borrelia nosodes to your solar plexus and you do the test. Ozone is helpful for neuro lyme, and that may be difficult to get in the states.

He is clearly trying to learn as he goes with american patients. We are his guinea pigs, and I believe in time he will gain a far better understanding of how we differ from euro patients. The benefit of seeing him in person seems to be finding out what's wrong whether it's lyme and besides lyme. Some of us that have access to ART Testers with a score of nosodes can find this out at home. It may be a mild wild goose chase, but its doable.

I just worry about a bunch of patients taking out loans to afford this treatment. Obviously it is much safer to have Dr W monitor you during the treatment, but besides Nana taking out her appendix--in which case the origin of pain and solution are clear--i haven't heard of any cases of major mishaps. Side effects yes, visits to the ER no.

In no way am I saying I think I wasted money by flying over. I've yet to have my 2nd treatment!! I wrote about the many benefits of being here in my blog, and I really think the conditions make for the ideal healing environment. Im just being a devil's advocate for people that are hellbent on this being a magic bullet when said bullet may be available under a U.S. alt doc's care soon or for those willing to bite the bullet, available with a group like the one bob is trying to set up. Many of the patients that have come think it was worth every single penny and the mom and daughter I met on thursday even plan on coming back in january to see Dr. W. It just becomes much harder to rationalize when your life savings are gone and you still feel ill, even if the hardest part--the lyme--is over.

-joey

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liesandmorelies
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Hi MoJoey, [hi]

I am so happy you are posting here and keeping us informed. I am reading your blog daily too.

In case I missed this, do you know if after your three week treatment there, do you have to go back four weeks later? I thought I recalled that was part of Dr. W's protocol. Kinda like a re-check visit?????

Hope you are feeling well and can't wait until you have had all your treatments to see how you make out.

The weather has been gorgeous here in sunny California, but sure would love to see the lush green countryside of Germany. Hope you are enjoying the sites the best you can.

We are all thinking of you!

Elizabeth

--------------------
aka: Lyme Warrior

In order to do "real" science, you have to have a "real" conversation with nature.

Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History!

"Just Demand your Rights"

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sixgoofykids
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He is tweaking his protocol for us. [Smile]

I am feeling great after my fourth treatment. I felt good and had energy all day yesterday after the photons. Today I woke up about an hour earlier than normal and feel good.

I can't clarify Joey's statement. Dr. W said to us that you have to clear the Lyme, then worry about the rest ... in regards to viruses, etc. He didn't test us for anything else because we had to clear the Lyme first.

He does not have the American nosodes for co's. I plan on buying some when I get back. I also need to use it with the mold I was exposed to .... I will have to ask him the best way to do that.

This is clearly working for me. No doubt about it.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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m0joey
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hi elizabeth,

from what i understand, he likes his german patients to go back after 4 weeks to get check if the lyme is still gone. I plan on going with the biotensor + checking with my chiro muscle-tester.

I wanted to add to my previous post: What really makes the decision to come for those who have trouble affording it potentially hard to justify is the fact that because it definitely seems to work, most of us will want to buy the machine. It seems like everyone here is taking the machine home with them to treat. Even if I walk out of here with all my symptoms still in place, as long as the lyme is gone I probably won't ever go on ABx again. I'll probably be using the machine to treat everything else.

Six really does look great!! she aint lying. =)

-joey

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m0joey
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I was also wondering if anyone knows the author of this blog:

sarahlindy.blogspot.com

she started blogging about her experience with the bionic, but i haven't heard anything from it since. She is following six's and my blog so i know she is out there!!! Just wanted to see how she's doing since she should be done with treatment by now

thanks,
joey

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NanaDubo
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I know her. She was in Germany the same time I was. We spent a wonderful day in Ettlingen together.

Last I heard she was doing well.

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m0joey
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thanks nana!

that's great to hear. She must've been feeling so good she forgot to finish blogging about it haha

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clairenotes
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I am so grateful to all of you who are posting your experiences with the Bionic 880. And it is also really nice to hear about other aspects of the experience such as traveling and lodging etc., from your blogsites. The more that we can know, the less anxiety there will be about going to Germany for this treatment. Because anxiety over 'unknowns' can be an obstacle in itself, particularly with regard to foriegn travel.

Though I do not feel that Dr. W's treatment is the only way out of this illness... it is appearing to be another very viable option that will widen, in my opinion, what has previously been a relatively narrow circle of options for us.

Wishing all who are there much success with Dr. W's treatment and many days of true health ahead.

Claire [group hug]

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UnexpectedIlls
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Mojoey and Six, Nice to hear from you and glad you're doing well!! [woohoo]

About making sure you DO have lyme... I think my + WB and my low CD57 is enough... even though I doubt myself everyday. I am sure there are other factors involved. My son and brother also have lyme (highly suspect my fiance too). so maybe I can also get a machine to bring back and treat them...

If we get the group togther that we were talking to last night, I say LET'S do it!!!

Wishing you all continued healing [Smile]

--------------------
"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

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heiwalove
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hey new england folks --

i live in nyc and am seriously considering making a trip over the summer as well, so if you all end up going then i would love to accompany you (spring might be a little too early for me).

anyone else from the east coast who is thinking of seeing dr. w this coming summer, please pm me. [Smile]

~heather.

--------------------
http://www.myspace.com/violinexplosion

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oxygenbabe
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I would consider it but would so much prefer someone here learn it, too.

Thanks to all with blogs.

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liesandmorelies
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Thanks Joey!!!!

And congrats to Six. I am so glad she is feeling better and the treatment seems to be working for her. YEAH!!!!!

This is so exciting. If this trend of ppl going and feeling better, continues then I think you are going to see a lot of ppl going over.

I will continue to read your blogs. We can't thank you enough for sharing your story's with us.

Elizabeth

PS I know we are not over there with everyone, but in a strange way, it feels as if we are. You don't know how inspiring this is for many ppl back here. [Smile]

--------------------
aka: Lyme Warrior

In order to do "real" science, you have to have a "real" conversation with nature.

Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History!

"Just Demand your Rights"

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sixgoofykids
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I just met Scott. [Smile]

We had a great day today! Went to Heidelburg .... walked all the way up a large hill to see a castle!!! It was fun and beautiful weather, too.

If you come over, see Heidelburg when you're feeling a bit better .... lots of walking to see it the way you will want to be seeing it.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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joylindy
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Hi, this is joylindy. I just PMed Joey, but for the others, I 'm the one with the sarahlindy54 blogspot. I post here as joylindy if you want to read my posts about going to Germany to see Dr. W.

I started a blog while I was there, then abandoned it since I was trying to avoid EMF exposure while in treatment.

My experience overall was positive. Next week I will be checked out by Dr. J in Kansas, and will report back on his assessment of my body's state.

I am teaching at a 7 day retreat right now, and the retreat team all tells me how different I seem and how much stronger and more energetic I am. I feel it too, but it's nice to hear from others.

Germany was important for me because it cleared the lyme. I didn't expect to be totally symptom free afterwards, just better, which I am. I don't regret going for a minute!

Blessings to all..

--------------------
joylindy

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Tracy9
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Wow.....

I'm on day 8 in bed unable to do a thing. I want this treatment.

However I am really thinking about what Joey said, and it does seem to make waaaaayy more sense if we pool our resources here in NE and get someone here to treat us.

I mean, if we each kicked in a thousand bucks, we could get the machine, and set up a practitioner; I know a great NE friend who is an acupuncturist and on this board, Luvdogs, maybe she would be interested?

It might not be prudent for 10 or 12 of us to fly to Germany this summer (tempting though it is) if someone can figure out how to get a machine in each state or so, and practitioners nearby.

Isn't Steelbone from CT? Is he bringing back a machine?

I'm way too sick to figure it out, but as I recall Sunshiney Day in MA was also looking for people to start a group around here...

HELP....I am more than willing to kick in some bucks, SSDI back pay coming soon.....but can't do any of the legwork.

Luvdogs, you interested?

--------------------
NO PM; CONTACT: [email protected]

13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG.

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zombie_mummy
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I am seriously considering going to Europe for treatment...

...I am also wondering about importing a unit to Canada (the manufacturer confirmed they will ship to me) IF I could only find a MD or ND who would assist with treatment.

I have 3 small children and it would be very hard to be away from them for 3-4 weeks.

Anyone from Toronto/Southern Ontario region please PM me if they are aware of a practitioner who might be interested.

--------------------
"Be it, don't dream it." -Dr. Frank-N-Furter

http://www.lymefriends.com/profile/zombie_mummy

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Mo
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reading some of the earlier posts about dr. w. finding american patients harder to treat..
i would suspect mycoplasma fermentans as one reason for this.

m

--------------------
life shrinks and expands in proportion to one's courage
-- anais nin

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Mo
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also, any chance of the price of the machine coming down over time?

m

--------------------
life shrinks and expands in proportion to one's courage
-- anais nin

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hiker53
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Again, just playing devil's advocate. If people are going all the way to see Dr. W, like Willow, why are they not getting the bionic treatment for the other things they have. Sixgoofy on her blog, said Willow had high levels of EBV and would treat at home--why not there?

Also, another person who has been there with pretty good results now reports the brain fog came back that had left after treatment with Dr. W. (I will keep the name private). So it seems some of the treatment does not last.

I really hope it helps people; guess I am afraid to get my hopes up, go there, and have my hopes dashed. Hiker53

--------------------
Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

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UnexpectedIlls
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Hiker,

I understand how you feel and it's only natural.. look at what we have all been through.

I was going to ask the same question about why they couldn't treat the EBV or other problems with the bionic, seeing as it is not ONLY for lyme. I have read online that it treats a variety of things.

here is the link to that brochure, it also has testimonials from Dr W and other doctors in Europe using it.
http://www.tradeandinnovationltd.co.uk/images/Bionic880.pdf

--------------------
"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

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GiGi
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quote:
Again, just playing devil's advocate. If people are going all the way to see Dr. W, like Willow, why are they not getting the bionic treatment for the other things they have. Sixgoofy on her blog, said Willow had high levels of EBV and would treat at home--why not there?

Also, another person who has been there with pretty good results now reports the brain fog came back that had left after treatment with Dr. W. (I will keep the name private). So it seems some of the treatment does not last.

I really hope it helps people; guess I am afraid to get my hopes up, go there, and have my hopes dashed. Hiker53


If Lyme is treated satisfactorily and if people follow the schedule for rechecking for the months as indicated by the recommended protocol by Dr. W., according to him and the patients I have talked with, Lyme is no longer a problem.

If reinfected afterward, that is a problem.
The people who took abx during the treatment will have a problem - that became evident with the trial testing of the 108 group of patients a few years ago. So he warns people. If someone goes back on abx, right after the treatment, while the photons are still doing their job, I do not know what to expect. I didn't ask, but some people are paranoid and go back to the old ways too early. That is must my thought. I do not know.

Many people, however, have a problem with toxicity and other infections before they contracted Lyme and accumulated even more of the same during the disease process while the immune system was out of order.

Many live in a toxic environment - mold, EMF 24/7, toxic relationships, and go back to the same after the treatment.

Many were heavy metal toxic before the treatment and are still facing the identical problems after the treatments for Lyme. The photons help, but most heavy metals are still in the body trying to find their way out.

Some still have the worst source of mercury in their mouth - the amalgams and other metals.

He does not request it that people remove it. It is common sense that if you have infected teeth and different metals in the mouth along with amalgam, to take care of it. The mercury still heads for the brain as long as the amalgams are in the mouth, with or without photons.

My advice would be - do not do photon treatments of any kind if you still have the metal in your mouth. And if you get the Bionic treatment for Lyme, make sure you address the fallout of metals from the die-off.

I am sorry if I sound like a broken record.

Take care.

All cannot be treated at the same time. One would have to stay many weeks and months to get more treatments based on whatever they are. Not all can be treated with the Bionic - structural, biochemical (allergies), healing of the gut, mental --- . Some can, some cannot. That is different for the individual. And I don't think Dr. W. is equipped to go into all of these.

Don't you think it is a little naive to think that by eradicating the Lyme bacteria all else is going to be solved in two-three weeks time?

I am still working on the problems that were pre-existing and on the collateral damage, mainly heavy metals and mold/fungi. Some of the collaterals may never be erased.

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hiker53
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Gigi,

I am not trying to be rude. I just want to emphasize that I am not being rude to you!! I think part of what is confusing me is that I thought your husband had been treated for heavy metals and fungus by Dr. K earlier as you always said that had to be taken care of first before the lyme could be eradicated. So, it seem like you are saying the opposite now. Or are you saying the effects of the heavy metals may be permament?

Please do not take offense at this. I am merely trying to understand more, so I can make an intelligent decision about going to Germany.

I have no amalgams left for several years(only had 4 tiny ones to remove--did not even need novacaine) and have been using a variety of chelators over the years in case I have some heavy metals. My house tests negative for mold, but I am sure I get a lot of exposure in the old school building I work in and exposure to EMF's there as well.

I know you have done many thiings even to the extreme of pulling the fuses as night--not realistic in winter here where I need the electric blower for the furnace for I would have frozen pipes and a frozen me. [Big Grin]

I have not been on antibiotics since 2005, except for a week with strep throat and a few days with major surgery.

I have used rife, laser therapy, and the Sota infrared machine along with some herbs. So, I am ready for another adventure, but want to be wise about it.

I hope your husband continues to improve and I do appreciate the information you post.

Hiker53

--------------------
Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

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sixgoofykids
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Dr. W told Willow that she needed to get rid of the Lyme first, then test for everything else. Sometimes things can resolve when the Lyme is gone. That is why she wasn't treated for the viruses with the Lyme.

This protocol is for Lyme ..... just to stress for those thinking of coming over .... you can experiment with other treatments and nosodes later, but the treatment here is specific to Lyme.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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Tracy9
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Gigi said:

"Don't you think it is a little naive to think that by eradicating the Lyme bacteria all else is going to be solved in two-three weeks time?

I am still working on the problems that were pre-existing and on the collateral damage, mainly heavy metals and mold/fungi. Some of the collaterals may never be erased."

This is the part that I get a little stuck on, as much as I want this therapy to work.

I was fine with ALL these things before I had Lyme. The metal in my mouth didn't bother me, the EMFs didn't make me sick, and I'm told just about everyone has EBV in their system and lives with it just fine.

There are people over in Germany with metal in their mouths and plenty of EMF exposure to come home to.

I have heard from some people that when they had the metal removed from their mouths, they became sicker than ever and wished they'd never done it.

My husband had all the metal removed from his mouth many years ago and it did not make a bit of difference in how he felt, nor did it help him get better.

My expectation is, YES, I do think that by eradicating the Lyme bacteria I should feel a whole heck of a lot better!!!

These things never posed a problem before. Why should they make me so sick now if I get rid of the Lyme?

I was healthy before Lyme. If Lyme is gone, shouldn't I expect to feel pretty good again?

With all due respect, I cringe every time I see Gigi say something like this:

"The Lyme is gone. If you are still sick, it isn't the Lyme. It is something else."

Ok, call me crazy, but that sounds way too familiar to me:

If if isn't cured in 3 weeks of antibiotics, it isn't Lyme. It's something else, maybe "post lyme syndrome."

If it isn't cured in 3 weeks of photon therapy, it isn't Lyme. It's something else, maybe collateral damage.

That really scares me.

--------------------
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Brussels
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Mo,

Daughter and I have been infected with mycoplasma together with borrelia and bart here in Switzerland (she was infected in Belgium first). We were only ART tested by a lyme doctor and my naturopath then (I couldn't still test).

My cat is still fighting mycoplasma here and then (according to my tests). It's the only tick born infection he cannot fight by himself but needs extra help (he was born in the wild here).

Mycoplasma are all around here, so nope, I don't think that's the difference with the US patients.

Dr. K. asked in a seminar in Germany with about 150 people, how many people in the room had insomnia or sleep disorders. About 5 people raised their arms. He said, "in the same course I give in the US, about half the people would raise their arms".

Very few suffer from sleep problems here when compared to there in the US!!

In Germany, depite EMFs etc, the life style is somehow healthier than the US (food, environment). Few would jump into abx for any minor problems since youth like I know is the case in the US. Organic food and cosmetics have been on the market since a very long time, it's a booming and growing business.

And about vaccinations, I just checked what you guys take, it sounds too crazy (here in Switzerland, people take about half of what you guys take).

All those factors could make things more difficult for the US patients, I suppose (just a guess).

Selma

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Mo
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tracy, i see it like this:

"lyme disease" (talking chronic, lots of symptoms, disabled, debilitated) isn't "lyme disease".

i've believed this for a very, very long time now.

my son does not have "lyme encephalopathy"..
he has any number of five potential infections or more, viruses, toxins, yeast and other unknown origins of goo in his system at this point.

infectious encephalopathy plus.

i really wish, even on the infections themselves level, that the LLMD's would stop calling it lyme.

lyme = borellia. none of us chronically ill only have borellia.

chronic infection = systemic damage, organ strain, body unable to detox, lymph system clogged, colon problems, digestive problems, immune problems, absorption problems, nutrient problems.

these are my beliefs based on what i've learned though experience..
i believe that is what gigi is referring to.

we would all be different in how that presents and resolves, like, when your car's oil gets really dirty, if you were to keep driving it that way you could gunk up the whole system? bad example, but i'm too tired to come up with something better.

and keep in mind, my response is not addressing how bionic 880 tx applies to all of this, i don't begin to have knowledge enough of that therapy as of yet to speak to it..
just speaking to our illness conditions in general.

mo

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jl123
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Theoretically if the Bionic removed her brain fog the first time, it could do it again. Is there any reason why extra treatments could not be the answer for those who remain ill? I wonder if this is a big issue that not even Dr. W has addressed among the 5% of patients he says do not get better, and so maybe it is an issue that needs to come up now.

Of course this would require people to get continued treatment here in the US. JL

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Mo
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brussels -

there are different strains of mycoplasma. i'm speaking of m.fermentens in particular. do you know if that strain is found in europe commonly?

i know it is found in gulf war syndrome victims..

adding here: i agree with everything you are saying, and absolutely i think that contributes too. i grew up in the 70's, eighties and mom gave us frootloops and fruity pebbles for breakfast, spaghettios commonly for lunch, and good old wonderbread. i love my mom dearly, she just didn't know better.
tho much better food wise now in some ways, and coming along slowly in general health knowledge, america is not at all a healthy nation, even still.

mo

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GiGi
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Since there is no valid lab test to find out whether a person holds any heavy metals in their system or how much they hold in their body and brain, the teaching is:

as long as symptoms are present, test energetically and treat if necessary. Some people need to detox for years. My husband appears to be one of them.

Before the Bionic Lyme treatment, he tested positive only once in a while for heavy metals and a few weeks later no metals showed up. That was sort of the routine for years.

Since the Bionic treatment, he tests for heavy metals non-stop.

So, I go by the old expert's rule, as long as he has still neuro symptoms, we treat the metals until none show up any longer. Hopefully soon.

I test for everything that I am aware of causing problems, and was advised by very knowledgable people to just keep on - finding and treating - as long as symptoms are present.

He does no longer test positive for any Lyme or co-infection since his last treatment in July.
That was never the case before Bionic.

I know it is very uncomfortable to listen to something we would rather not hear. If it does not concern you, just ignore it and do what you think helps you reach your goal.

This route, treating until no more symptoms, based on energetic testing, is exactly the one I followed too for myself. I am using this approach for my husband, with the support of other experienced practitioners. I was, however, fortunate enough to get well without the Bionic and truely believe this is the approach that helped me get well.

Take care.

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GiGi
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Someone mentioned "brainfog came back". I don't have time to read all the way back.

If the major cause of the brainfog was not the Lyme bacteria, it might be another of the hundreds or thousands of neurotoxins causing brainfog or other defects, structural or exposures of some sort.

In order to make certain, Dr. W. recommends people get tested once a month for at least four month to make certain Lyme is not testing positive any longer.

He also recommends people get tested for Lyme at least once a year.

Take care.

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lymie_in_md
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Tracy -- start out with acquiring the biotensor and take that first step. It may help you with your decision. [Smile]

--------------------
Bob

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joylindy
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Hi all,

I wanted to clear up a misunderstanding. As a refresher, I went to Germany and had great results in seeing Dr. W. I came home lyme free, and definitely improved in all my major symptoms (fatigue, brain fog, depression/anxiety, joint issues).

Before I went to Germany I saw Dr. J in Kansas. I continue on some of his supplements. In fact, Dr. W. let me stay on them while in Germany. In a PM to Hiker I mentioned that when I went off a neuro detox supplement from Dr. J (post Germany), I noticed some brain fog came back -- an indication to me that the supplement is still helping me offload neurotoxins. I in NO WAY view this as a relapse, nor do I think of this as something unusual.

I have other issues beside lyme...candida, parasites, viruses, and I haven't yet explored the metal issue completely. My body is still detoxing, and I was attempting to indicate that Dr. J's supplements seemed to be helping with that. They test very strongly with the biotensor.

Hiker and I have already PMed and sorted this out...but when I saw this post I did not want to have anyone else misunderstand and think that I was relapsing from the treatment Dr. W. gave me.
Hiker -- I just wanted to clarify, I hope that I haven't stepped on your toes. I apologize if how I communicated to you was confusing.

It makes sense to me that after the body is cleared of lyme, there are still other issues to address. I think of the treatment in Germany as highly effective, and recommend it. I do think, though, that those going through the treatment will still need to heal afterward from other things going on in the body. This only makes sense.


I just don't want people to think I had a relapse, because I haven't. I just got back from teaching at an intense seven day retreat where the participants are there for emotional and spiritual healing. I do this several times a year with 6 other leaders. My retreat team was delighted and amazed at the change in me for the positive. I didn't even take a nap all week long -- a first for me in the 13 similar retreats I've done over the last 3 years.

They even called me "Lazarette." A cute feminine nick name after the man Lazarus who was raised from the dead in the Bible.

I thank God for Dr. W. and for the healing I have and am experiencing!


Just on the road...

--------------------
joylindy

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rachellemarie
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For those of you planning on going to Germany for treatment, I spoke to the receptionist last night and she mentioned they are now not moving the office to the new location until April 2009. So if you're heading over before then, they will still be located in the current location.

Rachellemarie

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jl123
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I was wondering what Dr. W does for yeast? Does he think one needs to decrease it before Bionic treatment, or does he believe he can take care of it? thanks, JL
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SForsgren
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I've not heard of him doing anything specific for yeast. I will add that to my questions and see if I can get an answer on that topic. He is very focused on the Lyme and I believe that he feels that the photons will help to clear out a lot of these other issues.

My Dr. W blog:
betterhealthguy.blogspot.com

--------------------
Be well,
Scott

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NanaDubo
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jl123 - Dr. W told me that yeast would be treated along with lyme.

I thought that meant he would be using a specific nosode but did not.

I no longer have the usual signs of yeast that I had in the past and think that it was knocked out with the lyme.

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jl123
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"I no longer have the usual signs of yeast that I had in the past and think that it was knocked out with the lyme."

Wow thats pretty amazing. Thank you both for helping. So I suppose that the Photons actually
knock out yeast as well. If true that would be a major relief to me as thats a problem.

I seem to be getting closer and closer to making that trip. thanks again, JL

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Brussels
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December and January are fully booked. I just called yesterday.

They will be moving end of April, but plans might change. In case they move before, we'll get a phone call (the ones who already booked appointments, so I was told).

Yes, I'm very interested in candida and fungi treatment too. Please keep us posted, Scott! Thanks.

Selma

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zombie_mummy
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I just called 15 minutes ago and booked an appointment for January 22nd.

--------------------
"Be it, don't dream it." -Dr. Frank-N-Furter

http://www.lymefriends.com/profile/zombie_mummy

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Brussels
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Funny, why so? Maybe because I wanted a double appointment with my daughter? The lady said, sorry, no more place...

I wonder why.
Selma

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Tracy9
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This is very strange; I just called and booked an appointment for April 27th. They said they had nothing sooner; though others have called today and gotten them in January.

All I can think of is that they are booking me after the move, perhaps? I had an extremely difficult time with a sketchy connection and receptionist who barely spoke English at all.

I also called and spoke with the company that makes and sells the Bionic 880. They cannot ship it to the US because it is not FDA approved.

They are, however, actively seeking an engineering firm in the US to work with and will then be obtaining FDA approval; so they do expect it to be FDA approved in the near future. The machine costs $5800 Euros. I don't know how much that is in American dollars.

--------------------
NO PM; CONTACT: [email protected]

13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG.

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Tracy9
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Also, I would very much like to go with others; if anyone is interested in going with me at the end of April, please let me know, and please call and make your appt, as they seem to be going at the speed of light!

I would love to share expenses for car rental and share a room. Also it can't be a good idea for a sick lymie to be wandering around Germany alone, I can't even find my way around my own tiny town. I will be flying out of Boston most likely. Would be very cool to have a couple other people to go with!

--------------------
NO PM; CONTACT: [email protected]

13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG.

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UnexpectedIlls
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I am going to call today and try to make an appointment. Joey has to come with me for obvious reasons and we have to bring our daughter... No one will watch her for 3 weeks [Frown]

Tracy I will email you and let you know whats going on... [Smile]

--------------------
"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

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UnexpectedIlls
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I cannot find the number for Dr W?????

--------------------
"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

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Tracy9
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Great Shandy, I will make adjustments if necessary if we can go at the same time. I really, really want to fly out together and everything. I would feel soooo much better having someone else with me every step of the way, but can't bring Blake because Cody and Ryan of course have school.

I would also help with your daughter, would babysit anytime so you and Joey can go party it down on the town once you get a couple treatments and are feeling groovy!

--------------------
NO PM; CONTACT: [email protected]

13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG.

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Tracy9
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Hang on; I got it from Google but called a few wrong numbers first:

0 49 7231 313533

But I have Charter telephone and I had to call them to find out how to make an international call, and I had to dial:

011 49 7231 313533

So hopefully one or the other of those will work. Keep me posted!!! If you get sooner than April see if you can get two appts together, I'll go anytime, just want our appts together!!!

--------------------
NO PM; CONTACT: [email protected]

13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG.

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MusicMan
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Hi there [Smile]

As of today 5,800 Euro's = 7,236.36 US Dollars

Wow! That's a lot of money man!

I hope that price goes down by about 5,000 Euro's!! [Big Grin]


Steve

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Tracy9
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Yeah, that is a lot of money. It isn't mandatory to purchase the machine; clearly the cost of the machine is way more than the whole trip and treatment.

I do plan to bring one back, probably cost sharing it with others. I'm also wondering if I can use it in my practice treating people for anxiety, depression, etc....have no idea what that would entail at this point, but seems worth looking into.

--------------------
NO PM; CONTACT: [email protected]

13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG.

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UnexpectedIlls
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Tracy

I called germany and just called and left a message on your cell phone... I left my number...PLease call me!

Oh and they said treatment is 1k to 2k in euros.. which I think is ALOT in American cash.

--------------------
"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

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LymeCFIDSMCS
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Tracy, I might be interested in sharing the cost of purchasing a machine, if you're gathering up people in the CT/MA area! Could you PM me the cost and what you are thinking?
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NanaDubo
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Shandy - that's really not a lot for being treated for 3 weeks, at least I don't think so. One of my grandkids was just seen by a prominent LLMD and the initial appointment was $800.

My initial appointment with Dr. W was 185 Euro. That's $220 give or take.

Anyway, to everyone interested that can't go to Germany or can't go in the near future -----

My best friend is an MD and went to medical in Germany. She is fluent in German as well.

She has been an ER doctor for many, many years and is a psychiatrist. She is very familiar with the wonderful education she got in Germany and is looking to make a change.

Mind you this is still in the talking phase but it is hopeful. She has been following my progress and is most interested in going back to Germany to study this protocol- maybe with a couple of different doctors and set up a practice here using the bionic880.

I don't know what all the legal ramifications for using it would be but I'm sure it's doable.

She is in the process of moving and not sure where she will settle yet. I'm hoping it's near me because then I could work for her!

She has seen everything I have gone through and also has a good friend with lyme who is now on a feeding tube.... she has good reason to get involved in this.

I think this is exciting and I will keep everyone posted as things progress. I don't intend to let her drop this unless something unforeseen comes up in her life [Big Grin]

Please remember this is in the very early planning stages.

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Tracy9
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That is great about your friend. I'm sure the biggest obstacle right now is probably that it is not FDA approved, but it's good to know they are working on that.

I am trying to get a set appt to go to Germany along with Shandy. We are having a little difficulty getting a date in common, and now they are closed so we will have to call back tomorrow.

Perhaps Shandy and I can both bring back machines if others can cost share with us; she is in MA and I am in CT.

--------------------
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UnexpectedIlls
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can someone please tell me how much money you will need for all of this????

--------------------
"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

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Tracy9
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Here is what Steelbone posted earlier:

plane ticket 800
place to stay 500
treatment 2500
rental car no idea...guess 1000..i'm going with 3 people so the cost should be much cheaper

food for 3 weeks 500..total guess...

--------------------
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13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG.

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nyjohn
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i am going over in january.

i am going to try to detox heavily before i go...metals, abx residue, etc...
i am also going to try to get rid of the mycoplasma and maybe even babesia beforehand with both llmd's abx (stopping 2 weeks before i see dr w), and also via a holistic doctor's approaches.

my plan is to also buy nosodes for molds, babs, myco, fungi, etc to bring to dr w...maybe he will use them, maybe not?

any word from anyone else over there?
any new patients return home yet?

--------------------
do your best to educate the rest because
9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses

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m0joey
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alv--

i tried sending you a PM but you need to clear your inbox

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lymeparfait
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Does anyone have any thoughts about treating a patient with Lupus with the light machines?

I have lupus, along with lyme and co. It just hit me about the need to avoid outside light exposure with lupus, and if the photons could actually damage someone with lupus?

Appreciate any insight.

lymeparfait

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UnexpectedIlls
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Lymeparfait-- How can you tell the difference between your LYME or your LUPUS symptoms? I am just curious....

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"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

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NanaDubo
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Regarding the cost for the trip - I think that what Steel listed as the cost for his apartment at the Kleins was for the really small one. Only one room and a bathroom.

The current prices are on the Klein's website. I think the larger apartments will be 42-45 Euros at the first of the year.

Anyway, I had a larger apartment and it was somewhere around $1100 for 3 weeks which is a whole lot cheaper than a hotel. The dollar is stronger now as well.

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sixgoofykids
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Our apt. is about 920 euros .... it sounds strange, but the kitchen has a bed in it ... it's an enclosed room with a twin bed. There is a king size bed in the other room. There is a family room with a couch, that is also enclosed, so you can put a bed on the floor (thinking about Shandy's child).

Our car is about 700 euro.

The smaller room .... just a twin bed and kitchenette with a shared bathroom (with one other person) .... is 23 euro per day.

We're finding food to be inexpensive here compared to home, so you're going to spend that part anyway.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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nyjohn
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six
is that 700 euro for the car the cost per week or for the whole time you are there?
thanks!

hope you are feeling better
john

--------------------
do your best to educate the rest because
9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses

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hiker53
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10/29 CAlled Dr. W's office today. They had a January 5th opening which I could not take. Hope to go for a May 11 appointment. Would leave out of Chicago if anyone is interested.

PM me. Hiker53

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Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

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lymeparfait
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Shandy,

I've been so focused on lyme treatment, that I

forgot about my lupus when scheduling my bionic

treatment. I"m hoping the lupus antibodies go away

by April, but I could have it forever.

My ANA levels are extremely high and indicating

active lupus. They have gone off the charts ,

high, since treatment! llmd believes this to be

a good sign, that I may get cleared, as she

notices her lupus patients have a trend of getting

much worse, before it goes away. Hoping it's

gone before I go to Germany.

I get extreme sun sensitivity,

before ABX. My llmd sees most Lupus/lyme patients

have lyme eliminated with treatment, but some,

who have been sick a long time, end up wit cronic

lupus after all co's are gone! I have most

likely had lyme and co for many years until my

diagnosis this year.

Lupus quietly destroys the kidney and liver, and

you need to do a biopsi to find out if damage is

occuring. There are no symptoms assosiated with

early detection of it in the kidneys/liver.

I get blisters on my toes and feet and

fingers...not the lyme rash, but on veins. They

leave scars. This only happens on my families one

vacation to the Jersey Shore, with me only

exposing them in the late afternoon to walk in

the sand! Can't be that bikini babe any more!

This is different than little rashy

bumps that I also get. It creates inflamation in

my veins after going to the beach briefly. Being in the

sun is the only time my legs swell, and my veins

feel like they will explode in my legs and feet.

This lasts for several weeks, and sets off other

lyme symptoms in the following weeks. I also

start to hold fluids in my body and have trouble

urinating...it's scary!

Also connective tissue is involved.

Anyway, some things could be the lyme, and some

things could be the lupus as my autoimmune system

is not working. My other family menbers do not

have these particular strange symptoms, but have lyme. I am

more sun sensitive than most lyme people I know.

I"m on plaquinol; for the lupus, while taking

ceftin and tinidizole for the neuro lyme. (also

have brain lesions) Trying to get in as much

control before getting off abx for detox and

treatment.

This is why I am concerned of possibly doing more

harm while trying to clear the lyme and co with

the bionic 880. Don't know if sun exposure is

similar to the "light" photons? And if the

photons will cause damage to my kidney/liver? Or

will the photons just eradicate it all!! Yipee

Has anyone been treated with the bionic 880 who

has diagnosed lupus/lyme with high ANA during

photon treatment? Would like your

feedback.

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ElaineC
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Can someone post the link to the Kleins website please??
Posts: 261 | From Herx-ville!! | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
NanaDubo
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www.gaestehausklein-dobel.de/
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rachellemarie
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I have a port in my chest for IV treatment. Does anyone know if the people at Dr. W's office in Germany can access it for IV treatment, or if it's even needed? If not, I'm going to have it taken out. If I need it, I'll keep it in until I'm back from Germany.

Thanks!
Rachellemarie

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oxygenbabe
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Hi there lyme parfait.
Although I'm basically against the Marshall protocol, I do believe that some folks with chronic infections/chronic autoimmune disease--those who do get worse in the sun--may have the skewed Vitamin D ratios they speak of. Maybe you would like to have your Vitamin D levels tested to see. This could account for a sun-reaction.
Another possibility is viral involvement, and the ultraviolet rays of the sun stimulating viruses.
The infrared light in the LED's is not likely, I don't think, to cause you a problem.

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sixgoofykids
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quote:
Originally posted by nyjohn:
six
is that 700 euro for the car the cost per week or for the whole time you are there?
thanks!

hope you are feeling better
john

The whole time.

Sorry I don't know the answer to the port question. I think a port would have been much easier than getting so many IV's ..... if you know how to access it, I would say it would be great. I do not know if they can access a port or not ... I really know very little about ports.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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Angelica
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Question for Scott and Six. I know you both at some point were eating gluten free. Does the treatment make it easier to digest gluten because I was reading Scott's blog and noticed I think he was now eating gluten?

I am selfishly asking for myself because I would so love to be able to eat gluten again but am currently gluten intolerant. I miss pizza and garlic bread not to mention Bay Area French Bread.

I always look forward to reading all the blogs and posts about Germany so thank all of you who are reporting back. It gives me so much hope and I am so glad all of you seem to be improving.

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SForsgren
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I have not treated with photons for gluten but I can tell you that I ART tested myself yesterday for all the Lyme and related infections and none of them were blocking me. That does not mean they are gone but that the photons seemed to make them a non-issue at that point in time which was right after my treatment.

However, I tested Gluten and it still blocked me. So far, it is not resolving Gluten but again we have not treated for it. So, it may still be helpful. I just could not survive here on Gluten Free as it would be hard to find foods I could/would eat otherwise. At home, it is easier to make food at home. So I knew it would be bad, but I just decided to take a break from gluten avoidance.

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Be well,
Scott

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sixgoofykids
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I could eat gluten again after treating for parasites and bartonella. Scott is going to ART test me today and gluten will be included. Maybe I'll cut back on it significantly if I test poorly for it as I would like to get better. The photons, however, seem to be getting me better even with eating gluten, so it would be difficult to stop, LOL.

I've been back on gluten for over a year now. I was extremely sensitive to even a crumb prior to bart and parasite treatment. Healing the leaky gut is essential. Don't eat gluten until the gut is healed.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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ElaineC
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I know this was mentioned before,but can't find it now...and I know it varies from person to person...but on average, how frequently does Dr.W recommend follow-up sessions after the initial 3 week course of treatment???

Thanks!

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