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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Are Ceftin and other Cell Wall Inhibitor Antibiotics Really Dangerous?

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Author Topic: Are Ceftin and other Cell Wall Inhibitor Antibiotics Really Dangerous?
Pauline
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I just read this in "The Top Ten Lyme Disease Treatments". Am on Ceftin/Zithromax currently. I wonder if I should stop?!
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adamm
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What dangerous effects did it say they had? Most antibiotics

are cell-wall inhibitors, BTW.

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UnexpectedIlls
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I ahve read this around the web also.. they say its dangerous because it allows the bacteria to go into CWD or L-form, cyst form and make it harder to eradicate pushing the infection deeper into the body.. I also have these concerns.

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"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

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Pauline
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"its dangerous because it allows the bacteria to go into CWD or L-form, cyst form and make it harder to eradicate pushing the infection deeper into the body".

Yes, this is what I read. Supposedly, taking this class of antibiotics promotes chronic Lyme. Doctors must disagree about this since my doctor has been using this protocol for the last year. Makes me nervous. I think it's time to go to a more established LLMD who is more up on the latest research... my internist is pretty knowledgeable and open minded about Lyme but I'm sure he doesn't have the time to read up on every bit of Lyme research.

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UnexpectedIlls
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Its really confusing because I see a very well known LLMD and he also uses these types of ABX in his protocol... I am very concerned and also confused if they know what these abx actually do...

I think it might be why they use cyst buster in conjunction with CWI abx, but is it enough to not allow them to form Cysts and L-forms??

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"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

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Pauline
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"I think it might be why they use cyst buster in conjunction with CWI abx, but is it enough to not allow them to form Cysts and L-forms??"

Unexpected - what is Cyst Buster?????

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UnexpectedIlls
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Well as I know it.. is A cyst buster is litterly just that.. it busts cysts... I am on plaquenil and it in combination with Zith is supposed to help with the CWD and Cyst forms of Lyme... I am not too sure how scientific this is.. but I guess I just have to keep trying and hope it works!

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"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

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lymielauren28
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I haven't read Top Ten Treatments, but in Cure Unknown I believe it said that Burrascano cured himself with Ceftin...he then went on to cure the author with Ceftin also...

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"The only way out is through"

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herxuk
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I have not read or seen this. Is it just scaremongering, or is it coming from a reliable source. ???

There all way's has to be somebody preying on peoples fear's.

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jklynd
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Currently on Ceftin, and Tindamax,..Also read "Cure Unknown", and persuaded my Dr.to put me on "Ceftin". I had been on Tinidazole ("powder") before, meaning you could only get it through a "compounding" pharmacy..Once they came out with the pill form,it was easier to get as a prescription..Seem to be doing well on it..The wait was worth it, in my opinion.... Joe
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UnexpectedIlls
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Still in the process of reading Cure Unknown... unfortunately I have been too sick to pick it up in weeks and it was getting so good... [Frown]

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"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

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Pauline
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jklnd - could you elaborate on the tindamax. what is that used for... to break up cysts?
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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by Pauline:
[QB] jklnd - could you elaborate on the tindamax. what is that used for... to break up cysts?

Yes, flagyl is also widely used for the same reason.

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--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Nessa1815
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My LLMD says that Flaygl is a cyst buster. Is he right?

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"~*~My smile hides my bite~*~."

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robi
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Many LLMD's use ceftin. "Top Ten Lyme Disease Treatments" is written by a person using rife to cure/go into remission. I think he is a good guy and he shares a lot of knowledge. I believe rife works. He says the use of Beta-Lactam (amoxicillin, penecillin, ceftin and others)ABX is said to cause Spirochtes to go into cyst form.

He is NOT a doctor. Which doesn't mean he doesn't have some good info. I am not sure if there is factual proof of the assertion re: beta-lactam drugs.

Based on what I have read regarding Lyme, I believe the l-form and cyst form occur naturally even if you don't use Beta-lactam drugs. Do beta-lactam abx speed up and or encourage that process? Dunno .......... I don't think there is a definitive answer. Depends who you ask.

Look, the author of "Top Ten Lyme Disease Solutions" may be right. Gigi may be right, Tails may be right, LLMD #1 may be right, Protocol #49 may be right. Everyone is different. And each protocol has some good in it ....but the fact is you can't do them all.

What I have learned from 4 long years of this "learning experience" is that you have to find something you believe in, stick with it for a while. If you are getting no results ............. move on... but not too soon. You and your LLMD should make that decision together.

My opinion: It is good to run an ABX program to bring the load down and an herbal program to support your body and also help with the infections. Light therapy probably has some place in here as well .....

Choose an herbal regime to follow and choose an LLMD prescribed ABX protocol to follow. Change each when necessary. You cannot read and do everything at once ........... I tried it. [bonk]

Getting the advice of an LLMD and then reading a book that has a differing opinion and changing your protocol is NOT a good idea.

Stick with a plan and give it a chance to work. Progress is so slow it is hard to tell, but jumping around from treatment to treatment will get you nowhere. I am not saying you should stick with something that has absolutely no improvement, but treatments do need time to work. It is hard to be patient ............ I know.

If you change your protocol each time you read or hear something new, you will be taking everything or nothing at all. There is no one answer ( I wish there was too). Be methodical in your approach and discuss treatment with YOUR treating physician. Opinions form other sources are good. You should keep reading and questioning. Then discuss changes with your LLMD. If you don't trust your LLMD or if you have not made progress you might consider a new one.

Eradicating every Lyme spirochete in your body is probably impossible. Peaceful co-existence is not a bad goal.

Hope this helps,
robi

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Now, since I put reality on the back burner, my days are jam-packed and fun-filled. ..........lily tomlin as 'trudy'

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Alv
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Well from my own eksperience .As you know I had neurolyme BLO bart henselae , babesia , ehrlichia , mucoplasma fermentas ( I am going to find if I have tularemia) .

I use muscle testing.I tested very high on LEVAQUIN , and flagyl.I was OK on DOXY and rifampin ,azithromax and MINO.

I WAS a BIG NO for VITAMIN D that were refered from my LLMD .And it was a BIG NO for CEFTIN.

From my background I used penicillin and BICILLIN Shots as a KID.

Since 13 years ago that I started having LYME active or mucoplasma with it ( my swollen knee and they could not figure it out )in germany ...I could not be arund anybody that uses penicilling.COULD cause me brathing problems.

NEver understood why.When I self diagnosed myself that I have lyme and sow a LLMD I already had read BRYAN `s book.And I showed to my llmd.

BUt the 4 rth month she wanted me to try CEFTIN no matter what .I was concern ( I ADMITT) and started with 1 pill.Than in two weeks..I completly forgot about it and I start waking up with a COUGH dry cough and squizing....like astma

Than set up and apoitnment with my ND that does muscle testing .SHe muscle tested everything .

SHE SAID NO CEFTIN FOR ME.NO and NO!

So even though I already had warned my llmd as I had felt same way on penicillin a few years ago and they replaced it with bactrim and diflucan ( now I know why I had chills back than and it was working was killing bart and lyme and babesia )she stil wanted me to try ceftin.

SO for me this is too much of coincidence.I was even pulsing FLAGYL at the same time.

FOR me was TOO MUCH of coincidence.Last apointment was showing that mucoplasma fermentas and lyme is active...but I know that BLO is hanging around just my llmd does not have that pathogen on her SLIDE.

The rest seems in remission.But who knows as we increase teh dosages the layers keep braking out and new bugs might come up ...have been very sick for too long...so no wonder.

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charlie
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....good for you Robi. the assertion that beta lactams instantly 'chase' spirochetes into cyst forms is conjecture at best.

A bunch of people (like Art Doherty) have gotten well using bactericidals.

we are all in a learning phase...don't let anybody inflict hard and fast rules on you.

Charlie

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Pauline
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Robi - You are totally right. If I keep changing my treatment every time I read something I will accomplish nothing here. You make a good point about perhaps the spirochette converting to cyst form naturally anyway. Who knows? I guess the bottom line is, I need to go to someone who I feel is an expert in Lyme, and not just someone who is open minded about treating chronic Lyme. I'll continue on this regimen until I can get in with an LLMD at least. Thanks for your common sense advice.
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UnexpectedIlls
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DId you know that in the laboratory they use CWI abx to grow L-forms on their slides.... I think this has merit..

If you know Lida Mattman... this is how she and MANY others grew L-forms.. by Using Beta Lactam abx and Cephalosporins...

Yes they probably form naturally, but these abx push them deeper into CWD-L-form...

I have read of this many times... and to me it is scary especailly seeing as I am going on IV rocephin.

I am seeing a very well known LLMD and he seems fine with putting me on These abx... I feel uncomfortable with everything I have read... BUT I am no doctor and no scientist.... I have to try to trust with everything in me.

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"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

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Pauline
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Unexpected - have you asked specifically about the possibility of this happening with Rocephin or other cell wall inhibitor antibiotics? I wonder how an LLMD would respond to this theory.
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UnexpectedIlls
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You know what.. I am going to ask the doctor... cause I asked the PA and she didnt really know about that.... but the protocol I am on is the same that the Dr would put me on. I am going to ask this cause I am a mess about it myself.

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"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

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jklynd
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Pauline, I had PM'ed you earlier..In answer to your question-Yes,Tinidazole/Tindamax is used as a "cyst-buster".It has been used against H.Pylori, another bacteria that has the ability to revert to a "cystic" form..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinidazole ....Joe

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jklynd
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P.S.,If any of you read the Wiki article on "Tinidazole", Please read the one on H.Pylori also. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicobacter_pylori I find it so hard to believe that all of these "learned clinicians" could not understand that stomach ulcers were caused by smoking, stress,etc.,but instead the actual cause-a bacterium? Anyone thinking "IDSA"?.... Joe
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electrolite
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quote:
Originally posted by UnexpectedIlls:
You know what.. I am going to ask the doctor... cause I asked the PA and she didnt really know about that.... but the protocol I am on is the same that the Dr would put me on. I am going to ask this cause I am a mess about it myself.

UnexpectedIlls, did you get to ask your doctor? What did he say?

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I was diagnosed with Lyme Disease in August 2007, but I now feel it was a misdiagnosis. I was finally properly diagnosed with Chemical Sensitivity in February 2011. My life has changed drastically since then.

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stella marie
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I'm on ceftin & other abx's along w/ tindamax for cyst busting the buggers.

I improved greatly while on ceftin!

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Stella Marie

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