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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » The lyme monster is you

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Author Topic: The lyme monster is you
Al
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Dr. MacDonald ordered 10 brains from a brain bank at Harvard, looking for Borrelia he discovered a monster;
In 7 of those brains he tracked a DNA sequence apparently part human, part Spirochete, a deadly ungodly hybrid combining Borrelia and us.

The proteins causing illness are no longer manufactured by B burgdorferi spirochetes but by the genes of the patients themselves.
The DNA of the spirochete combined with the human chromosome, "Once it's your own DNA and your churning it out yourself, your cooked"

Cure Unknowen, P. 348

[ 25. August 2008, 01:47 AM: Message edited by: Al ]

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lymeHerx001
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What?

Is this a fiction book?

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Lymeorsomething
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No, MacDonald mentions this to some degree in the movie "Under Our Skin" too.

It's very scary especially if you've seen the movie "The Fly." lol

I tend to resist conspiracy theories and the bio-weapon angle but then when i see stuff like this the wheels start turning just a bit...

--------------------
"Whatever can go wrong will go wrong."

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bettyg
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al,

please clarify subject line better; make it make sense ...big thanks so we can use our time wisely... [group hug]


click pencil to right of your name to open up subject line... [Smile]

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lymielauren28
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I read this too, in Cure Unknown. I don't even know what to say or think about it. The thought of it is hard for me to wrap my mind around...

It's just too freakish and scary...

Lauren

--------------------
"The only way out is through"

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Clint31
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so how do you know if you're at this point?

--------------------
DX'ed Lyme Disease: 7/7/2008
DX'ed Babesia, Epstein Barr, Liver Parasite 8/15/2013.

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minimonkey
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I don't think this is quite as sci-fi as it sounds...

I'm no microbiologist, but from what I remember, viruses (especially retroviruses) do recombine with host DNA rather frequently, and I don't think it is all that uncommon for some bacteria to do that as well.

This does seem to add to what I've previously read about Bb showing some virus-like properties and some morphologic (general structure) overlap with mycoplasmas, which can penetrate into a host's cell.

This, if true, actually adds some credence to the whole idea that there may be an autoimmune-like component to Lyme -- that even if the spirochetes were to be eradicated altogether (which seems to be largely impossible to do in late lyme) that the body would continue to produce symptom-causing chemicals (cytokines, interleukin 6, etc.) -- resulting in the "post lyme syndrome" that some folks insist is the reason we don't get well.

The researchers at Columbia are taking that idea pretty seriously... and certainly, many of us do develop true autoimmunity, showing up as M.S., Lupus, etc., that may well be a result of Bb.

Interesting thought... I think I'm going to go look up the reference and see if I can find it.... (someone feel free to correct me if I have the details of any of this wrong!)

--------------------
"Looks like freedom but it feels like death..
It's something in between, I guess"

Leonard Cohen, from the song "Closing Time"

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minimonkey
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Here's a link to this guy's research, with the above material in it

http://stcatherines.chsli.org/research.htm

--------------------
"Looks like freedom but it feels like death..
It's something in between, I guess"

Leonard Cohen, from the song "Closing Time"

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METALLlC BLUE
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This is quite common in many infectious diseases. Just like I've been saying for years, the idea of toxin release (including Neurotoxins). It's not make-believe fantasy, it's molecular microbiology and chemistry. It's real, and we better start accepting these things, or we're not going to find a solution.

Go through the medications commonly used to treat the symptoms of these conditions in ALS, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's. Find the common denominator.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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lymie_in_md
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Are we soooo sure if our dna mixes with bb we're cooked. The poor folks who had lyme hybrid dna and probably suffered cruel deaths. Weren't diagnosed. In other words they couldn't fight the disease any longer. And I'm guessing this is the lasts stage of what lyme can do to you. Based on the success of near infrared on some patients in london. It might be reversable. We'll know soon enough when they've done their clinical trial.

--------------------
Bob

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soonermom
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I just wanted to add that these brains from Harvard brain bank were from known Alzheimer's patients.

He ordered 10 brains and 7 of those contained this DNA hybrid of human and borrelia chromosomes combined.

He found the hybrid DNA in areas of the brain rich in the plaque causing Alzheimer's.

He then goes on to discuss how target areas inside the plaques are round, suggesting that the cyst form of the bacteria is killing the cells from the inside out.

He published a six article series about this in the journal "Medical Hypotheses".

"Cure Unknown" pgs. 347-348...there is more info

So these patients were most likely only being treated for Alzheimer's. When is the medical community going to wake up??

--------------------
3/08 CDC Positive
IgM 18++ 23-25IND 31++++ 34++ 39+ 41+++ 58+ 83-93+

CDC Negative
IgG 31IND 39IND 41+++ 58+ 66+

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Jellybelly
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Yeah, I have to agree with others, DNA of various pathogens becoming part of our own DNA is quite common. It is rather freaky sounding but, it happens to everyone. That doesn't mean it's without consequence, but that is just the way it is. I truly believe they will eventually find bacteria andn viruses to be at the core of just about everything that ails mankind.
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micul
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Pathogens have been combining or incorporating some of our DNA to help them survive since forever. It's not the same thing as actually changing our own DNA into this new rogue DNA forever.

Whatever is happening, I believe that abx will be, and still is able to get rid of it all with proper Tx protocols. What Dr M has seen is the worst case scenario of long term chronic patients that were never properly Dx, and never recieved any kind of sustained Tx.

--------------------
You're only a failure when you stop trying.

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Geneal
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May I have some gravy to go with me? [Eek!]

Doesn't scare me. (much)

I am (obviously) a wonderful host for Lyme and friends.

Just another confirmation of how "smart" this disease really is.

(And possibly how "dumb" it is making me).

Hugs,

Geneal

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adamm
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We really are screwed, though, if the cyst is pathogenic, aren't we?
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Mo
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syphilis, leprocy, tb, mycoplasma are pathogenic as well. i thought we knew Bb was?
i'm too tired to process this, but it's alarming.

but what they are saying is that Bb can get into
DNA?? is that more like prions?
i know if you have prions you're screwed..
pathogenic or even "stealth" bacteria/viruses i believe can be cured.

i remember a while ago some underground talk of Bb and other tbd's found in bone marrow and then in the
immune system cells it produces.
(i.e. within our wbc's and such).

any new research on that?

this is very concerning and i wonder about mycoplasma joining with Bb to produce the dna changes.

mo

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adamm
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Do our own bodies produce new whole Bb?!
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Keebler
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-

If DNA can change - it can change back. Of course, we have to know how to do that. Certain kinds of light, too, may repair DNA.


Cat's claw has been shown to help DNA repair. It's not that simple, but that's a thought to consider.


If we accept doom, we are doomed.


Finding out more about these infections is vital. I choose to seek the information, the truth - perhaps gasp - but then go on to figure out what to do next.


After that page in that book, is there comment on the next step, then?


=====================================


www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

PubMed Search:

DNA repair - 52018 abstracts


One of those:


Photodermatol Photoimmunol Photomed. 2008 Aug;24(4):199-210.


Efficacy of three different laser wavelengths for in vitro wound healing.
Evans DH, Abrahamse H.

Laser Research Group, Faculty of Health Sciences, University of Johannesburg, Johannesburg, South Africa.

Excerpt:

. . .

Conclusion: The results indicate that 5 J/cm(2) using 632.8 nm results in a stimulatory effect that is more effective than 830 and 1064 nm.

The results suggest possible mechanisms by which the wavelength may potentially influence the cellular responses of wounded cells.


-

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METALLlC BLUE
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The fact that this infectious disease may have the capacity to incorporate it's DNA into ours(I'm confident it does), does not mean people will remain ill as a result of that mechanism, or autoimmune issues. Our bodies repair DNA every single day, millions of times, billions even. Each cell of your body is constantly at work splicing, repairing, editing nucleotides, like a typewritter or just like a hard drive on your computer.

We can resolve these problems by removing the trigger (Killing the infection) and repairing the hosts ability to do the repairs it normally does.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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soonermom
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Keebler,
WELL....this is very close to the end of the book. It's honestly not uplifting, but here it is:

MacDonald theorizes about how the infection in the brain MIGHT jump across the synapse between nerve cells, infecting entire neural circuits of the brain.

He says this phenomenon would explain the progression of Alzheimer's from early disease to late.

So far, he has only found short snippits of Borrelia DNA inside human cells. Again, he is THEORIZING here that if there was borrelia DNA of sufficient length inside a human cell, it COULD start producing Borrelia proteins.....

"Setting the stage for a situation in which the immune system would attack the self"

I have 13 brain lesions....all I can do is continue treatment with my LLMD. I know I FEEL a lot better and believe that these lesions will heal over time.

I just wish the mainstream medical community would pay attention, so that others might be spared some of these "unexplained" neurological diseases.

--------------------
3/08 CDC Positive
IgM 18++ 23-25IND 31++++ 34++ 39+ 41+++ 58+ 83-93+

CDC Negative
IgG 31IND 39IND 41+++ 58+ 66+

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mobfarias
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Wow this is encouraging! Kind of disolves any ray of hope for getting better. So whats the cure for this???? A bullet?
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Keebler
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-

soonermom - Thanks for looking further. I have not gotten this book yet as I have to work hard to stay positive and the title, actually, scares me. I can face the truth, but I need a book to also then shine some light.

Does this book offer hope or highlight some success, too?
I'd like to read it but, again, with limited energy I have to be careful.

-

I just know that it is vital to find the truth - and from there go on to find further truths that will be solutions.


It is possible for brain lesions to diminish, even disappear, with treatment. And new methods, different methods offer hope, too.

-----

Being on a gluten-free diet is one way to help with brain, too.
there are some startling effects for what gluten reactions can do in the brain -

----


Another avenue that holds hope:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

PubMed Search:

Huperzine - 292

Huperzine, lesions


--------------

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=015820

SUCCESS STORIES


-

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oxygenbabe
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First of all that's only one researcher and only seven brains.

Secondly, he disappeared, gave up his work.

Thirdly, this is how evolution works, folks. You're alive because of your mitochondria, which were once parasitic invaders.

To understand better, read Lynn Margulis. Also Matt Ridley--read about Herv's (viruses we inherit).

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adamm
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Wait--McDonald disappeared? As in was abducted or murdered?
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lymielauren28
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No, he quit researching Borrelia...I think there was just too much pressure. He went on a fifteen year hiatus working for Quest labs as a pathologist.

But then in 2006 he decided to pick up where he'd left off and is now back to researching Lyme again...

--------------------
"The only way out is through"

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bettyg
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al, you got quite a conversation going here...
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sparkle7
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Thank you for bringing this to our attention!

This is the conclusion written by Dr. MacDonald:

http://stcatherines.chsli.org/cystformspaper.pdf

"Consequences of the Hypothesis:

If the spirochete cyst model is ratified, then multiple neurodegenerative disorders” might be redefined as infection related illnesses.

Unification of diverse diseases of the nervous system would require that textbooks be rewritten and that
diagnostic procedures be revised to accommodate the early detection of Borrelia infections.

Diagnostic evaluation of the spinal fluid would resume in earnest.

Academic physicians would redirect their attention from postmortem immunostains for Tau protein and Alpha synuclein, to ante mortem evaluations of the diverse “attack models” for spirochetal infection in the nervous system.

An entire cadre of neuropathologists and neurologists would need to be re-introduced to spirochetal related injuries of the brain, spinal cord and peripheral nervous system.

Antispirochetal therapies would ameliorate, or even offer a prospect of cure for many of the “ so called neurodegenerative diseases”.

Dr. Hideyo Noguchi’s genius would be again lauded 100 years after his works to connect a persistent spirochetal infection with Dementia emerging after decades of latency.

And dimly perceived” shadows on the wall of Plato’s cave would be relocated from the “column entitled degenerative” to find a new home in the discipline of Infectious disease medicine."

-----

After reading the studies from the website (as below) these thoughts come to mind...

http://stcatherines.chsli.org/research.htm

1. DNA from Bb & human combined is different than other DNA. It is a separate thing than other illnesses, viruses, etc.

re:

http://stcatherines.chsli.org/transfectionpaper.pdf

"Evaluation of the Hypothesis:

A larger scale study with the identical experimental methodology is needed to corroborate the detection of ``junktransfection'' DNA.

There are no previous publications known to exist for which no measurable product occurs following the insertion of foreign DNA to produce a Transfection product."


2. Brain plaque from Crotzfield Jacob disease is similar to the brain plaque of other illnesses like ALS, Parkinsons, Lyme, Alzheimers...

Does this mean that Mad Cow Disease contributes to this model?

Do cows really have Lyme Disease - not Mad Cow Disease?

Are we eating them? I actually found a European study about this very subject about a month ago. I will look for it again & post it.


3. Are the cyst forms of Bb able to get into the brain via the spinal fluid? Are spirochetes able to cross the blood/brain barrier or is it just the cysts that get into the brain?


4. If you take a drug that causes the spirochetes to turn into cysts, does this make it more easy for the cysts to get into the brain? Is it, then, more dangerous to cause the spirochetes to turn into cysts since they can get into the brain easier?


5. What can be done to get rid of spirochetes or cysts in the brain?


6. How about the battery of toxins attacking the nerve cells of the brain such as mercury in dental fillings, vaccines & other toxins in the air & water as seen in "chemtrails" (which are known to have barium & aluminum), etc.

How does this combine to effect the brain in conjunction with Lyme?

-----

Just some thoughts in regards to this post. Please share your thoughts... I'm not a scientist.

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soonermom
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According to this book Macdonald is back from his 15 years of "exile" in Texas.

He is now a pathologist in New York.

I think that this information that we have been talking about is research that he has done since moving back East.

I know "Under Our Skin" shows him also working out of his basement on his own time to learn more about lyme disease.

Keebler, I DON'T think that the whole book is at all a downer. It doesn't have a sugar coating either.

For a newbie, like me, it was really informative about the whole background info on how lyme got to be so controversial. At least that makes a little more sense to me now.

This author and her whole family ended up with lyme and so she knows our struggles.

If I could sum it up I would call it a powerful and honest portrayal of all aspects of lyme disease. I don't think she left anything out.

When you are ready, it is definitely a "must read".

I had honestly thought about giving it as Christmas gifts to all of my family--LOL!! I'm sure I would be quite popular if I do so.

--------------------
3/08 CDC Positive
IgM 18++ 23-25IND 31++++ 34++ 39+ 41+++ 58+ 83-93+

CDC Negative
IgG 31IND 39IND 41+++ 58+ 66+

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adamm
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I don't think there was enough discussion of Lyme's role

as a bio-weapon. Then again--if she hadn't been kind enough

to the government crooks, the book probably would have failed

to hit shelves, depriving the public of vast amounts of necessary

medical knowledge.

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oxygenbabe
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There is going to be a bellcurve of response to any pathogen invasion, this is how evolution works. Read Lynn Margulis. Read Freeman Dyson who told me personally something to the effect of, symbiosis when successful is an infection that doesn't kill you.

If it doesn't kill you and you adapt, over time, you begin to utilize the organism, it utilizes you too and you both adapt. Eventually it becomes part of you and you are more streamlined but more complex.

Margulis believes spirochetes are the precursors to the eukaryotic (ie our) cell, as well as to sperm, cilia and nerve cells. So hey it makes sense you'd find spirochetes in our brains, if you go with her theory. She studies spirochetes in the termite gut as she says they exist in all 3 stages of evolution there--swimming around, attached to the cell and looking like cilia, and inside the cell.

Lederberg talks about microbes doing one of those three things too (Joshua Lederberg, Nobel PRize winner).

We go back with the microbes a long way, we evolved out of them. Evolution proceeds in part through random mutation, in part through response to environmental input (epigenetics, which is a heritable response, look up Agouti mice) and ALSO by invasion/symbiosis. We may be suffering, some of us now but in the long run this is what made us who we are, as a species. Every virus, every microbe, if invasive, ultimately has its role. Hervs (viruses)--the same way.

I have to re-read the book and am eager to do so and familiarize myself with it all again. Maybe spirochetes are linked to Alzheimer's, maybe they are a cofactor, maybe occasionally a cause. Who knows. Much more research would need to be done.

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Mo
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yes, quite a worthy conversation!
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Clarissa
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I appreciate ALL of Al's articles as he's clearly done some great research and is quite a trail-blazer of knowledge.

MY concern: The petrifying HAS to STOP. We need to remain hopeful, positive and not obsessing about things that "could be" or "might be".

These kinds of posts, although interesting and evolutionary can be dangerous to the delicate minds and spirits of many Lymie patients.

I'm not trying to cause any controversy but we really need to focus on the positive and keep mind over matter.

Just trying to remain diplomatic and calm for the sake of others as I've seen MANY Lymies get better and move on with their lives...like my ENTIRE family.

Best,

--------------------
Clarissa

Because I knew you:
I have been changed for good.

 -

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djf2005
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i agree clarissa

lyme be damned, its not taking over my body or my brain.

at least not until im dead and then ill say "over my dead body" while i rest..

[Smile]

cheers

derek

--------------------
"Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."

[email protected]

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charlie
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OK Clarissa and Derek but we can't function entirely as just an uplifting support group...we need to delve into what's told to us and dissect it and analyze the living crap out of it whether or not we come out with a positive message.

And if not we'll come up with a work-around. We have to.

Charlie

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Clarissa
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I agree, Charlie, and I gave total props to Al's delving, research and analysis.

I'm just trying to stay in the middle and not let one side lessen the other.

Life is a balance and we must work with the facts but also with positive thinking, the power of prayer and miracles.

There is just SO much that we don't know in every aspect of this disease AND this life.

I'm not taking "sides" just expressing a need for balance.

Peace to all,

--------------------
Clarissa

Because I knew you:
I have been changed for good.

 -

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sparkle7
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I agree with you Adamm!

I heard an interview with the Cure Unknown book author. It was totally depressing. I really think there's alot that was completely missing from her point of view.

I didn't read the book, nor am I really interested. I know there are alot of fans out there & I understand why - but her point of view is not interesting to me.

I think it is important to understand what we are fighting. We have to study this ourselves & make up our own minds about how to treat ourselves.

I don't trust doctors. They aren't necessarily bad - they just don't research this one topic like I have. I know my own body.

There are solutions to this issue. It's not as scary as it seems. Ignorance is bliss, as they say...

Alzheimers can be treated with 1072 nm light.

I'm not big on the whole "theory of evolution" idea, either.

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Tracy9
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Anyone who has read Cure Unknown or seen Under Our Skin has already heard about this. It is widely known and covered in both of those.

I was truly surprised to see how many people here were seemingly unaware of this after all the exposure in the two media sources.

--------------------
NO PM; CONTACT: [email protected]

13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG.

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sparkle7
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Not everyone has bought the book or the DVD. I'm very limited on money.

Maybe if the movie is on You Tube I might watch it. I haven't checked...

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cottonbrain
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A number of us have a really hard time reading, and have little energy available for research, thus we depend on this board for vital info. [Smile]

and sometimes i forget what i read here. so please, everyone, keep posting pertinent info, even if it may seem like common knowledge.

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sparkle7
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cottonbrain - the sharing of info between bacteria is what happens in the biofilm. It seem to me like a mini community of co-operation between various bacteria. They can actually communicate with each other (via quorem sensing).

If only we could be so effective...

I think it's different when the Bb gets into our DNA. There are ways to remedy it. It's not a life sentence...

I posted something yesterday about the role of intention & frequency on DNA but I guess it went over everyone's head... it's really interesting stuff, though.

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lymie_in_md
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A supposition, a theory, maybe a thought, but I think we need to either prove or discount.

There is in England a helmet, inside the helmet is 700 LEDs. It is actually helping alzheimers patients get better. I believe the chance of having both lyme and alzheimers is 70%. Why, because Dr MacDonald took 10 random alzheimer brains from Harvard and 7 had lyme.

So the first 4 patients treated by Dr. Dougal had great success, some of the patients from the U.S. by the way. Why was it successful ??????

Is it possible these leds representing the NIR (near infrared range) had something to do with it?

Maybe there is hope yet, maybe we have to find more information as to why this technology is successfull.

--------------------
Bob

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Al
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Don't let this preliminary information affect you .
Even if it proves to be fact there are most likely ways to remedy it.
I think many cures will come through Stem cell research.
lyme disease is only one . The future looks great if only researchers could work together instead of going for greed of money and power. The answers come but at a much slower pace with the current system.
The world system isolates researchers to their own research for fear of losing patents to others and making deals with big business.
This seems to be a tragedy of modern medicine today.

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James Marschner
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That's similar to how Virus' plasmids transfect themselves into "permissive" human cells and form a very unique VIRUS-HUMAN DNA hybrid that (If you're very unlucky.)may churn out mutant proteins, or quantitatively aberrant, normal proteins which cause diseases like CANCER.

In the case of Borrelia B., I would think the test results are the result of intracellular metabolic activities of the bacterium....of coarse there are going to be some cytosolic DNA (Like mDNA.)from the host AND some from the metabolically active bacterium. With rectriction enzymes floating around...I don't see why the idea of DNA fragments that contain both bacterial AND human origins would be impossible, or even uncommon.

I'm sure host cells don't become "transformed' and go around spreading the aberration. If they DID...they would die off right away instead.

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Keebler
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-

I agree with Charlie . . . we need to know. We can't hide in the shadows as the IDSA would have us do. Knowledge is power.

I mentioned above that I'm waiting a while to read one particular book. Well, I've read many others. I'm not afraid to stair the lyme in the face as I think that is the only way we can know it and defeat it.

It's just that I was wondering what to expect as I start a book so that I can have my backup handy.

The key is balance.

It's how we then proceed that matters. Trying to stay positive is still possible even in the face of grim facts with a "how to" approach rather than a "how screwed?" approach.

Action plans matter. But hiding from the truth does not.


Here's to perspective. And action plans.


-

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sparkle7
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I heard an interview with the author of Cure Unknown on NPR. I just don't agree with her perspective about Lyme.

I know the book has brought some attention to the issue which may be of help.

I read all of the studies on the webpage about Lyme by Dr. MacDonald. They weren't too difficult to understand.

http://stcatherines.chsli.org/research.htm

I'm glad he has done this research. It's very helpful to understand the implications of Lyme & what it may do.

I'm also very interested in using infrared light to remedy the situation. It seems that the use of infrared light intersects with Lyme & Alzheimers. I think this means there is hope for improvement.

I'm not sure if there will ever be enough studies about this technology that will satisfy people who can't comprehend a non-drug model for curing illnesses.

I'm sure the drug companies aren't thrilled with the possibility of using light as medicine.

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oxygenbabe
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Sparkle, I'm not sure you can call her book a "perspective." She reports scientific data.

Neither can you debunk the "evolution idea" I was citing. It's fact.

However, I think this kind of thing is pretty common, as James, the previous poster, pointed out.

Also, I personally think Alan MacDonald was overstating the case. Maybe borrelia is a factor, however.

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lpkayak
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those of you freaking out about this thread...we really don't know yet. don't stress yourself over it...you'll just make your Bb happy.

--------------------
Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself.

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sparkle7
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There are alot of holes in the theory of evolution... it's not all "fact". It would take me too much time to research it now & present all the gaps. I'm not a right wing Christian, either (not that there's anything wrong with that - we have freedom of religion here).

I just don't think that the field of science should dismiss everything that doesn't agree with Darwinism. Many scientists are blackballed if they don't agree with evolution. I think this is wrong.

I didn't read the book "Cure Unknown" so I can't state all the specifics. Number one concept is that the author doesn't believe that Lyme is a bio-engineered weapon... I just do not agree with this way of looking at the illness.

There too much data available to disprove that it was a naturally occurring bacteria. I guess anything can be debated but it's just too tedious for me to present all the data to support my point of view...

Even if I did - people would still have their own opinions about it. I have no disrespect to anyone who disagrees... we all are entitled to our opinions.

Read the study about Lyme & Alzheimers by MacDonald. I guess anyone could poke holes in it but he says he found Borrelia DNA in the areas of "plaque" in brains of people with "Alzheimers"...

He presents evidence that the "plaque" may be cystic forms of Bb.

http://stcatherines.chsli.org/plaquespaper.pdf

Who knows? Maybe it's from having syphilis?

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sixgoofykids
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I've skimmed over this thread. I have been feeling nearly well lately, but am herxing today (monthly babs flare up) so had to skim over the "big words" ROFL.

So, from my spacy, babs induced stupidity, I will make a couple comments. [Big Grin]

I have had Lyme, bart and babs for 35 years. I have had every bodily system infected. I can tell you one symptom I never had is testicular pain (I'm a girl), but other than that, I've had nearly everything.

I have no doubt that the Lyme is very comfortable in its host. [Wink]

Most of you know about my last five years, undiagnosed, sick, treated, etc.

Prior to that, I lived with a few symptoms here and there. By 1991 I was really into health food and supplementation. I had a good sense of what I needed and didn't need. By the time I was diagnosed, I was taking about everything on Dr. B's list of supps and other things mentioned in places like Buhner's book etc.

Lyme and I coexisted from 1991-2003 when I got really ill from something else and triggered the Lyme again.

When I say coexisted, I mean it was still there, but it didn't bother me. With my healthy diet, supps, exercise, sunshine, etc., I was healthy. Other people would ask me how I had so much energy and did so much.

So, don't think for a minute that you can't feel 100% if you don't get rid of every single spirochete. You can.

This is why antibiotics alone will never be enough. Even Dr B says that in his guidelines. People ask me how I could have lived with it this long ... I actually think I have an advantage .... I know I can live a full, happy, healthy life even though this bacteria is a part of me.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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mookiewill
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First, about the DNA. Yours comes from Mommie and Daddy. Yours gets altered along the way.

Science says this is where ________ merged with your DNA.

Maybe? Maybe not!

Mom's and Dad's DNA came from their parents DNA, which came from thier parents.......

Cootie DNA can get inserted anywhere.

Don't think they understand their data fully.

Get the biofilms, get the body to fight and repair. Bust the cysts and keep the immune system healthy.

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sparkle7
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Check here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA

"The main role of DNA molecules is the long-term storage of information."

"Non-homologous recombination can be damaging to cells, as it can produce chromosomal translocations and genetic abnormalities."

-----

I don't think you want to have various bacteria, chemicals, & toxins interfering with your DNA. I don't know if there is even a history of bacteria affecting DNA. It's mostly chemicals or UV light... This is why this research is interesting...

I'll have to look into it further. I don't really know very much about all of this.

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lpkayak
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adamm-i tried to answer your pm but the box is full

i'm an old lady (59) and have probably had lyme since i was 5 or 6

i just thhought the way i was was normal for me: allergies, chronic sinusitis, growing pains, back and feet problems at 16, learning disabilities

i lived a pretty full life-liked sports and surfed, skiied and rode horses and became a PE teacher and mom and wife

when i was 33-35 i got much worse and found out about LD

it took ten years or so to get dx and tx

i went to both yale and westchester med as well as many local docs

my fight started in about 95-96

i have the bad gene so arthritis is a big part of it for me-there's nothing i can do but treat it like arthritis so i take nsaids and get joint replacements and do the best i can

by 2002 i was doing pretty good on just herbs and supps-then i got assaulted at work and other emotional traumas happened and i started going downhill

i am back on treatment-but it is different this time-my body is responding different-some good-some bad

to answer your question: we're all gonna die ... so for me , now the best thing is to just live as much as i can each day

i watched my mom suffer with lyme for years before anyone knew what it was-she just thought her hands were numb and her shoulder hurt-so much she couldn't put a shirt on over her head, and then she got so tired whe didn't want to eat cuz then she'd have to get up to go to bathroom...then the dementia started...and it dragged on for 7 years---they taped her arms to her body cuz they were falling out of the sockets.

SHE WAS NEVER DX AND NEVER TX CUZ HER ELISA WAS NEG...she finally died and pneumonia was put on death cert

i've heard of others having seizures for 10 yrs before they die

two of my kids were so affected having me sick their whole lives they have just refused to believe they have it (they do) and have used anger and stubbornness and what ever else they have to to deny they have lyme. they prove it by being exercise fanatics. but they also take very good care of their bodies.

after seeing a lot the last 20 years-i think that IF you get tx and IF you do the lifestyle changes...you can get a reasonably good quality of life.

i never thought i would be in a wheelchair, be dx with copd, have a neuropsyc say i had dementia in my 30s and 40s. there were times i was suicidal. now i just enjoy what i can. who knows when it will get worse. it's not cancer. it's not something i can't fight. i do what i can and enjoy what time i have...and who knows. maybe they will figure it out and i'll get to be around longer and do more stuff.

i sense you are young. like my kids it must be really really hard . its not fair. but unfortunatly it could be worse. sometimes life sucks. i just figured out complaining didn't really help me. so i put my energy into what helps.

if you are young-you have time on your side-maybe they will find the magic cure.

--------------------
Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself.

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lymie_in_md
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If you fight lyme because you know you have it. You are in a much better situation then if you ignored your symptoms. See what happened to the 7 alzhiemmer lymies Dr. Macdonald got from harvard. They didn't address lyme, and yes they were doomed. However, we are much different then those folks, we are battling the disease.

Dr. Lipton a biophysicist views genetics much differently. I agree with his viewpoint, check out this link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iCcnDuY6-4

--------------------
Bob

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bettyg
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kayak,

you're NOT an old lady; we're the same age, and we're in "MIDDLE AGE"! [lol] [Big Grin]

your story touched me so much; so sorry for all you've been thru and your mom all those years!!! [group hug] [kiss]

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lpkayak
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oh betty,betty, betty...i FEEELLLL like an old lady with arthritis just about any place it can be!

BUT IT'S NOT IN MY KNEES ANYMORE!!!!!

they are brandy new.

they are painfree almost all the time and for a month i have been riding the sweetest little quarter horse in the world every other day. for me it has been a taste of heaven.

i'm pretty sure i'll be back in the kayak soon too......

--------------------
Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself.

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bettyg
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kayak,

glad your new knees are working well and NO PAIN so you can ride your horse. in time, YOU WILL be able to kayak again!! best wishes my friend! [group hug] [kiss]

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