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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Why is babesia so much tougher then the strongest ABX ?

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Author Topic: Why is babesia so much tougher then the strongest ABX ?
Annxyz
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Does babs have a biofilm? I am constantly amazed how many people take TONS of ABX for babs and relapse. I am thinking they have LITTLE effect over the organism . It seems everyone gets a little better , then always relapses.

Any ideas on what makes babs almost impossible to kill ? I can not help questioning whether ABX are really suitable given the enormous amounts taken and pitiful results .


Thanks for your input !

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ANNXYZ

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adamm
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Because we have it with all this other stuff, some of which

was designed to be able to survive treatment with

the strongest abx. I've known people who have had things

like babs and bart in isolation, and treatment was, comparatively,

very straightforward for them.

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sixgoofykids
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This is my opinion. Normally, I will quote from Dr. B's guidelines, so here I want to specify that this is my opinion only. I have not read this anywhere. I am not a doctor.

We all know that we cannot kill 100% of the bacteria or protozoa with treatment.

So, it follows that if nothing changes and all we do is kill as much protozoa or bacteria as we can, then whatever conditions were there to allow bacteria/protozoa to proliferate are still there. Thus, the illness will come back.

What needs to be done is to not only kill the pathogens, but also to rebuild the immune system, strengthen the body, clean up the diet, clean up the home environment (mold, etc.), treat for parasites, treat for heavy metals and other toxicities, align the spine, get enough sleep, rebuild the adrenals, support the thyroid, etc.

If you bought a fixer-upper to live in, you would know all the work that needs to be done .... just spraying for roaches would not be enough! You'd have to clean, paint, replace carpet, etc.

We need to do more than just kill the bugs .... our bodies are fixer-uppers. [lol]

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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feelfit
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excellent analogy Six!

Feelfit

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SForsgren
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Because antibiotics are for bacteria and Babesia is not a bacteria, but rather a parasite.

--------------------
Be well,
Scott

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sixgoofykids
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I was making the assumption that she meant appropriate babs treatment. [Smile]

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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Annxyz
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My point is that most people are prescribed ABX for babs. They seem to be ineffective overall .

As far as my personal immune system , I think it is GOOD . I really feel that the organisms that cause this dissease must be VERY NOVEL , esp babs, because I have read a million posts by members who have swallowed countless pills , and STILL have babs.

I was just wondering if anyone really understands babesia ?

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ANNXYZ

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seekhelp
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I just never can differentiate how to tell the symptoms of Babs from Lyme. It is not clear to me how a LLMD can definitely say you no longer have one or the other as many symptoms on the checklist are duplicative.

That makes me nervous one can get treated forver.

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Hoosiers51
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This is MY personal opinion: I think babesia is understood a lot better than Lyme.

I think there ARE doctors out there that at least have a good enough understanding about babesia to be able to relieve the symptoms of most people suffereing from it, if not change their lives completely.

I don't understand this post, because antibiotics are not the first line of defense against babesia. Anyone trying to eradicate it with "the strongest ABX" is disregarding tons of medical research and the opinions of many professionals.

Anyone prescribed antibiotics for babesia should be questioning that, unless it is Bactrim.

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sixgoofykids
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Yes, I agree with Hoosiers.

I've been on Mepron and Malarone/Lariam for babs for 18 months. I thought the post was meaning that this kind of treatment still didn't seem to get rid of it.

Sorry, I misunderstood. Babs is not a bacteria, that is why the strongest abx are ineffective.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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Rianna
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Does it depend on what strain of Babesia you have perhaps? as here in UK a lot of people seem to respond to Malarone very quickly.

Mepron did not touch my Babesia yet Malarone knocked it out/down within days-literally after 3 pills of malarone in 1 dosage I felt better to a point where I still cannot beleive what a miracle drug it is for me, I remain on it at 3 pills a day with breakfast and lots of fat.

Rianna

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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by sixgoofykids:
We all know that we cannot kill 100% of the bacteria or protozoa with treatment.

So, it follows that if nothing changes and all we do is kill as much protozoa or bacteria as we can, then whatever conditions were there to allow bacteria/protozoa to proliferate are still there. Thus, the illness will come back.

What needs to be done is to not only kill the pathogens, but also to rebuild the immune system, strengthen the body, clean up the diet, clean up the home environment (mold, etc.), treat for parasites, treat for heavy metals and other toxicities, align the spine, get enough sleep, rebuild the adrenals, support the thyroid, etc.
[/QB]

READ THIS AGAIN! READ THIS AGAIN!! [Smile]

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by seekhelp:
I just never can differentiate how to tell the symptoms of Babs from Lyme. It is not clear to me how a LLMD can definitely say you no longer have one or the other as many symptoms on the checklist are duplicative.

Lyme Disease Symptoms List
1. Unexplained fevers, sweats, chills, or flushing
2. Unexplained weight change--loss or gain
3. Fatigue, tiredness, poor stamina
4. Unexplained hair loss
5. Swollen glands: list areas____
6. Sore throat
7. Testicular pain/pelvic pain
8. Unexplained menstrual irregularity
9. Unexplained milk production: breast pain
10.Irritable bladder or bladder dysfunction
11.Sexual dysfunction or loss of libido
12.Upset stomach
13.Change in bowel function-constipation, diarrhea
14.Chest pain or rib soreness
15.Shortness of breath, cough
16.Heart palpitations, pulse skips, heart block
17.Any history of a heart murmur or valve prolapse?
18.Joint pain or swelling: list joints_____________
19.Stiffness of the joints, neck, or back
20.Muscle pain or cramps
21.Twitching of the face or other muscles
22.Headache
23.Neck creeks and cracks, neck stiffness, neck pain
24.Tingling, numbness, burning or stabbing sensations, shooting pains
25.Facial paralysis (Bell's Palsy)
26.Eyes/Vision: double, blurry, increased floaters, light sensitivity
27.Ears/Hearing: buzzing, ringing, ear pain, sound sensitivity
28.lncreased motion sickness, vertigo, poor balance
29.Lightheadedness, wooziness
30.Tremor
31.Confusion, difficulty in thinking
32.Diffculty with concentration, reading
33.Forgetfuiness, poor short term memory
34.Disorientation: getting lost, going to wrong places
35.Difficulty with speech or writing
36.Mood swings, irritability, depression
37.Disturbed sleep-too much, too little, early awakening
38.Exaggerated symptoms or worse hangover from alcohol


The following signs/symptoms may be present in those infected with Babesiosis:
Fatigue
Arthralgias
Myalgia
Drenching sweats
Headaches
Emotional lability
Depression
Dark urine
Splenomegaly
Dizziness
Nausea and vomiting
Cough
Dyspnea
Fever
Chills
Hepatosplenomegaly
Jaundice
Malaise
Shortness of breath
Bleeding tendencies, bruising
Thrombocytopenia
Hemoglobinuria
Hyperesthesia
Pulmonary edema
Encephalopathy
Low to normal range leukocyte counts
Possible elevated levels of dehydrogenase, bilirubin,
transaminase*
Anorexia

Approximately 25%- 66% of Babesia patients are known to be co-infected with Lyme disease. These symptoms may continue for long periods of time, decrease, then return.

A low Babesiosis titer (IgG) often indicates a chronic infection.
An acute or current infection may show a higher reading on the IgM test initially. There are over 100 species of Babesia in the United States but only ONE or TWO species are currently checked by commercial labs.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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oxygenbabe
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Because nobody has developed an effective treatment for babesia. Until recently it was mostly an animal disease such as cattle. So we just have ad hoc treatments.
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Annxyz
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Thank you for the replies. I wish I understood what makes it almost impossible to eradicate .

Thanks Lyme TUTU for the info. You are right about the lists of symptoms seeming VERY similar . I assume I have babs because I have chills a lot , and some occassional night sweats . ( not all of the time ) . I am always cold.

I am amazed by how many posts I read of people who have taken months or years of meds and relapse ( like Ernie ) . I am eventually going to try the rife idea.

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ANNXYZ

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sixgoofykids
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Have you had detailed testing of your thyroid? The cold could be from low thyroid .... mine was low-normal across the board and some low level thyroid treatment has helped immensely.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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Keebler
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-

Babesia is similar to malaria. Malaria can become resistant even to the best treatment. That is why combination treatment is vital.

And rotating, changing the combination - adding additional elements for support - all can be helpful.

You might want to see the books about babesia at Amazon. Schaller has several out. Some you can search inside of at the link.


-

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cottonbrain
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Can somebody please explain:

Why do some people take Mepron with art and others take Mepron and Malarone/Lariam?

Which is the more aggressive / effective treatment, or is there one?

thanks, everybody.

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sixgoofykids
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I've taken art with mepron and taken art with malarone/lariam. It works with either.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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Hoosiers51
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Rianna---Malarone is not an antibiotic.

cottonbrain---artemisinin is an herb that is often combined with lots of different babesia protocols.

Mepron needs to be taken with Zithromax. Otherwise, you could be wasting your time. BUT, some doctors will use Biaxin instead of Zithromax.. I don't think my doctor does this, but I know some do since they are both macrolide drugs.

Malarone is another anti-babesia drug.

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Angelica
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Is there a way to tell if your babs is gone or just dormant? I was told mine is probably currently dormant.
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Rianna
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hoosiers51:
[QB] Rianna---Malarone is not an antibiotic.

I know that much, did I say it was?????

Rianna

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Hoosiers51
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Sorry, for some reason when you were asking about strains, I thought you were agreeing with Annxyz that antibiotics were necessary.

Never mind, my fault.

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