LymeNet Home LymeNet Home Page LymeNet Flash Discussion LymeNet Support Group Database LymeNet Literature Library LymeNet Legal Resources LymeNet Medical & Scientific Abstract Database LymeNet Newsletter Home Page LymeNet Recommended Books LymeNet Tick Pictures Search The LymeNet Site LymeNet Links LymeNet Frequently Asked Questions About The Lyme Disease Network LymeNet Menu

LymeNet on Facebook

LymeNet on Twitter




The Lyme Disease Network receives a commission from Amazon.com for each purchase originating from this site.

When purchasing from Amazon.com, please
click here first.

Thank you.

LymeNet Flash Discussion
Dedicated to the Bachmann Family

LymeNet needs your help:
LymeNet 2020 fund drive


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations.

LymeNet Flash Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Buhner herbs and abx

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: Buhner herbs and abx
mandy614
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 16524

Icon 1 posted      Profile for mandy614     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I started taking the resveratrol, cats claw, sarsparilla, and adrographis recommended in Healing Lyme by Buhner.

I'm taking minocycline, plaquenil, and biaxin too.

I am herxing like crazy on all this stuff.

I emailed Stephen Buhner and he said it was ok to take herbs with abx.

Does anyone have any thoughts on Buhners herbs and taking them with abx? Has anyone been helped by them?

I feel like at some point this is counterproductive, I am soooo ill, this can't be good!!!!

Thanks

Posts: 348 | From maryland | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Keebler     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
-

Did he say specifically, ALL THOSE abx - each one you listed and all together? At the dose you are doing. And with the dose for all the others added?

The dose can be everything.

In his book, he has instructions for starting slowly and adding slowly. the smilax (or sarsaparilla) is not one of the core ones and, I thought, to be added later on.

-

I (very happily) just began andrographis recently with cat's claw (will add the others later) and I gotta say, you seem to be taking a truckload full of stuff all to start.

My body could not handle all that at once.


And minocycline can be very hard on some people - vertigo, tinnitus, etc.


Again, if you just started with the herbs, it is usually advised to start slowly - not with them all at once - and at low doses.

Please be careful. If your body can't handle it, back off.

I am not on abx. I recently began andrographis, added cat's claw and next week will begin one more. It took a month to get up to dose with this. I am very happy and other than being very much more tired, I LOVE the andrographis.

My brain is far less jolted by stimuli. But it is to be respected. It is powerful.

Again, I think it's too much of the total number of things and too soon for all the herbs to start. As I don't know what dosage, I can't say about that.

But, if you are feeling it's too much . . . it is. Give yourself a break. The finish line is still a ways ahead. Pace yourself.


-

Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mandy614
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 16524

Icon 1 posted      Profile for mandy614     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thank you Keebler. Slow and low is best. I didn't specify what abx I was on when I emailed him, nor did I tell him which herbs I was taking.

I have started with all of the core at very low doses. I think I will restart with cats claw for now.

Thank you for reccomending the book it is very informative and I was looking forward to trying these. Maybe I should hold off until off of abx.

Posts: 348 | From maryland | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Keebler     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
-

Mandy,

I am not suggesting holding off. In fact, certain complementary measures can be very helpful.

I may have over-reacted in my previous note, partly as I did not know dosage. It's good to hear that you started at the lower doses.

The cat's claw is a very good one to narrow it down to but, I think andrographis is the better of the two. Whatever you decide, by adding each one separately, you can see how that does for you.


When I started andrographis, it was very upsetting to my stomach. I had to work up to that one for over a month. Now it's great - one of the best I've ever taken (but still makes me sleepy).

Please don't give up on the idea. I think it can be a good blend.
It just takes a little while to ease the body into this.

Please hang in there.

Does your LLMD incorporate complementary formulas? Be sure to ask her/him about these as most LLMD are very familiar with this.

How long have you been on the 3 abx you listed in your first post?


This will work out to be easier for you, I'm sure.


Take care.


-

[ 18. September 2008, 01:45 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mandy614
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 16524

Icon 1 posted      Profile for mandy614     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Keebler

I've been on the abx for 2-3 months. Biaxin a bit longer. I probably haven't knocked out alot of the germ load.

I just restarted with cats claw and andrographis 1xday for now. Cats claw doesn't really have a huge risk for strong herx reactions does it? The sarsparilla did seem to help with the herx reaction but I took too many (3) and had a hard time falling asleep.

I'm also taking the transfer factor lyme and multi immune.

I ordered like 4 bottles of each one so should I keep them? I had the gastro upset too, first cramping and diarrhea and then constipation.I had to do a Vit C to bowel tolerance and I think I lost alot of minerals/electrolytes.

My LLMD likes to do herbs away from abx, he does Cowden. I'm sort of self treating for now... I didn't realize until I read the bottle I'm also taking some of his other herbals, the Stress Response and Rhiodiola.

Posts: 348 | From maryland | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ldfighter
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 9405

Icon 1 posted      Profile for ldfighter     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Buhner says it's ok to take everything together, but there's some evidence cat's claw and resveratrol both inhibit the CYP3A4 enzyme, which might theoretically cause drug interactions.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/429776_3 (cat's claw)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11125847 (resveratrol)

The CYP3A4 enzyme affects the breakdown of Biaxin and many other drugs. Here's a good article with a chart (doesn't list Biaxin as a CYP3A4 substrate but many others do) http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1312247

Biaxin also inhibits CYP3A4 (in addition to being broken down by it) so it may be a double whammy if you take Biaxin + these herbs and are on anything else broken down by CYP3A4, like benzos (substrates in the chart).

I haven't seen Buhner specifically address this issue with the CYP3A4 enzyme. It might be clinically insignificant but without more studies how do we know for sure? It took a while for everyone to catch on to drug interactions with grapefruit juice, same CYP3A4 mechanism. Personally I think some caution when combining Buhner herbs with CYP3A4 substrates & inhibitors is a good idea.

Posts: 621 | From US | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | LymeNet home page | Privacy Statement

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:

The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey
907 Pebble Creek Court, Pennington, NJ 08534 USA


| Flash Discussion | Support Groups | On-Line Library
Legal Resources | Medical Abstracts | Newsletter | Books
Pictures | Site Search | Links | Help/Questions
About LymeNet | Contact Us

© 1993-2020 The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.
Use of the LymeNet Site is subject to Terms and Conditions.