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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » It would be ideal IMO stop Lyme by inoculating deer

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Author Topic: It would be ideal IMO stop Lyme by inoculating deer
Peedie
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Deer - they roam free all over the US in wilderness and suburban areas. They are so prolific, so mobile and impervious to the disease they carry and pass to ticks, Lyme. Like four legged refueling stations, they are everywhere.
We need to vaccinate each and every one and tag them -DONE.
'Cmon guys!!! Give us a vaccination that would not allow the BB to replicate - what's so hard about that?
Imagine now -- looking out your window, gazing at beautiful deer grazing on your lawn. "Oh look Johnny, see the green tags? They are the good deer, they're here to help us."
...just finished the book "Cure Unknown"...can you tell?

Peedie

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adamm
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There are plenty of other reservoirs, though/
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Peedie
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sure - but deer are such good dispensers, large enough to catch and track and capable of traveling distances.
I'm imagining something along the lines of "Golden Fleece" or something else that would disturb the BB ability to reproduce.
The ticks that bite deer would also bite the raccoon, white footed mouse etc. Right?

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disturbedme
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Deer are a huge carrier of ticks, but there are other carriers such as birds and just about ALL mammals...

I think by now, it's too late.....

--------------------
One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar.
~ Helen Keller

My Lyme Story

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ByronSBell 2007
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I am a hunter and in Kansas alone, there is approx. 800,000 deer

I would be more worried about mice, rats, birds, rabbits, they transport the disease better than deer do.

There will also never be a lyme vaccine. The only thing our immune system uses to fight the lyme is our Natural Killer Cells. They don't have memory. So the only thing you would ever get out of a lyme vaccine, is infecting yourself with lyme.

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TerryK
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My understanding is that mice are the main reservoir for ticks. Deer supposedly don't carry and pass the disease but I've read conflicting information about that.

Supposedly, deer mainly feed the ticks. I don't think deer perpetuate the infection itself, they simply keep the ticks alive by feeding them.

If you kill the deer, ticks will find something else to feed on. They may even move to a more populated area to get a more ready food source, namely humans.
Terry

[ 03. October 2008, 12:18 AM: Message edited by: TerryK ]

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cjnelson
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quote:
I would be more worried about mice, rats, birds, rabbits, they transport the disease better than deer do.



--------------------
Seeking renewed health & vitality.
---------------------------------
Do not take anything I say as medical advice - I am NOT a dr!

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Melanie Reber
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There is a company that is working on bait to medicate mice.

See:
http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=069851


There is also a trial in Scottland using a herbal formula fed to deer that kills ticks.

See:
http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=064506

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charlie
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....we've already killed off all the natural predators, so the next best thing would be to stop protecting deer.

after all the only reason they have seasons ect is so the gov't or quasi gov't agencies can sell people the 'right' to kill them, and outfitters can sell 'approved' stuff to do it with.

ridiculous. It's just a multi gazillion dollar industry that shouldn't exist.

Charlie

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Marnie
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ABSTRACT: Four white-tailed deer (Odocoileus virginianus) were experimentally inoculated with
Borrelia burgdorferi to determine serologic response by enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay
(ELISA) and immunoblotting.

Deer had antibodies by ELISA by 2 to 3 wk post-inoculation (P1)and remained positive for 10 wk.

Deer demonstrated immunoblotting reactivity between 10 and 14 days P1 and consistently showed

antibody response to NINE B. burgdorferi antigens.


Attempts were made to recover the spirochete from blood and tissues; B. burgdorferi was isolated from an ear punch biopsy from one of the inoculated deer."

http://www.jwildlifedis.org/cgi/reprint/30/2/146.pdf

And the old CDC standard for lyme diagnosis required the Western Blot "positive" to FIVE bands...the deer reacts to NINE!

Why? Does mineral availability effect the deer's ability to make more antibodies?

Although spring nutrition is important for body and antler growth, deer possess adaptations that allow them to prosper in areas with mineral deficiencies.

For example, deer deposit minerals in their skeletons throughout the year. Then, during antler growth, they mobilize these minerals to help the antlers grow strong.

A second adaptation is the deer's ability to change absorption rates of minerals in their stomach.

When using large amounts of minerals for antler growth, deer siphon more minerals from their diet. Deer rely on plants for these minerals, and they select plants offering the highest mineral concentrations."

Yet...even if Bb IS recovered...the deer do not look to become "arthritic" or sick.

It looks as though THEY become immune. Sorta like getting a "vaccination".

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Peedie
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I have read that they "carry" the disease - but do not get illness from it. Pretty interesting I think.
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soonermom
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I used to watch the deer from my living room and think how wonderful it was to live in the country.

Now, I think "bow hunting".

Sorry, don't mean to offend anyone. I just can't help but get the heebie jeebies watching them now.

ps. I get excited when the "flock" of wild turkey come through eating ticks, etc.

--------------------
3/08 CDC Positive
IgM 18++ 23-25IND 31++++ 34++ 39+ 41+++ 58+ 83-93+

CDC Negative
IgG 31IND 39IND 41+++ 58+ 66+

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ByronSBell 2007
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The "deer" tick was originally thought to be "THE" carrier of lyme disease. But we all know that isn't true, all ticks along with fleas, mosquito's and other blood sucking insects carry it.

People get sucked into thinking that the "deer" tick means that deer are "the" carriers of the disease. As far as I have seen almost any living creature can carry the disease.

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Peedie
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LOL - I love you guys! Well I thought - on a whem - that the deer would be a great delivery system for a cure. [Smile] Which is the "nature" of my post.
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soonermom
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I, for one, would LOVE to see green tags on the deer that surround my house!!

--------------------
3/08 CDC Positive
IgM 18++ 23-25IND 31++++ 34++ 39+ 41+++ 58+ 83-93+

CDC Negative
IgG 31IND 39IND 41+++ 58+ 66+

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Keebler
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Peedie - don't worry. It's great that you are THINKING.

We all probably had that same thought and then discussed it and comments you see here are a result of many previous discussions and exploring.

My concern about a vaccine is that many of those humans who got the lyme vaccine during the five minutes it was on the market - well, many of them became very ill - with lyme.

The animal kingdom is actually very stressed. THEIR immune systems would not likely handle vaccines very well, either - especially the withdrawn lyme vaccine that is stockpiled and looking for some way to make money.


IMHO, the less stress for all animals, the healthier they will be. With pollution from many sources and land changes, it is very stressful for animals.


I would like to see a comprehensive program that should aim at wildlife health. (Just as humans SHOULD enjoy an affordable comprehensive plan for health - but most don't.)


We all still need to keep thinking, working on this. Take each idea a little further, working it, bending it, etc. - and taking into account ALL the vector-borne infections.


Together, we all might come up with changes that help all of us. Don't stop thinking about it, just the opposite. How? How else? What else is there to consider?


I'd love to see entire science classes get involved from middle school through the universities. In the meantime, asking ourselves what we can do now, in our own backyard or on our own patio or apt. deck - all the questions matter.

I don't think ANY program will work if stress reduction measures - serious measures - are not incorporated.

National Geographic had a wonderful program about STRESS what what it does to animals and humans. About two weeks ag on PBS.

I will try to come back with a link.


-

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Keebler
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One VERY interested finding was that the baboons who had the MOST aggressive natures fared very badly when exposed to TB.

Changes in community were fascinating.

Now, I'm not saying that focusing on the immune system is enough alone. We must understand all we can about each particular infection, especially since lyme and vector-borne infections do not act like all the others.


Still, this is an EXCELLENT program. DVDs are available and you can read much more about it. The layers of relevance are numerous and really sparks thinking.


----


http://www.pbs.org/stress/

Stress: Portrait of a Killer

A National Geographic Special

--


http://www.pbs.org/nights/blog/2008/09/stress_portrait_of_a_killer.html


Discussion about this program and about stress.


-

[ 04. October 2008, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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candlequeen
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There are so many critters that carry Lyme. I think if something was done years ago it would have helped but it is so out of hand now almst like an epidemic it is hard or impossible to get all the sources.
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Peedie
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The ticks that visit the deer - and feed on them are the same ones that feed on the white footed mouse and others - right? I mean, if the science community could find the right "thing", that tick who bit the deer - would be then innoculating the mouse, raccoon...etc.?
Example:
"...he (Steve Barthold) transferred their blood (containing antibodies but not spirochetes) to mice that had never been exposed to the disease. When he later exposed the healthy mice to Borrelia burgdorferi, they appeared immune. It was clear that the antibodies from the blood of the fist group had literally served to 'vaccinate' the second group." (Cure Unknown - A Search for Answers, pg.285)
Why can't they figure out how to transfer an "agent" via the blood they feed on - that would make BB replication disfunction?

Keebler - Thanks for the links on stress.

Peedie

[ 05. October 2008, 08:20 PM: Message edited by: Peedie ]

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