lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
What is this?
My LLMD ordered it because I recommended it. But I still dont know what its for. I thought it was for detoxing.
Anyone>
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
HLA-DR is a receptor on B cells and on fibroblasts.
Bb locks onto that receptor (after locking onto other things in HeLa cells (these cells line our blood vessels).
IgG4 antibodies look to be BLOCKING the HLA-DR receptors on B cells and fibroblasts.
This however doesn't stop Bb...as we continue to pump out more and more B cells (some of which go off to the thymus to become T cells).
In the joints of RA patients there is a LOT of blocking IgG4 antibodies (and in the serum of lupus patients too).
We need to block the things that Bb is locking onto on HeLa (endothelial/epithelial) cells. These are the first cells Bb infects.
We must INACTIVATE genes called Akt...SPECIFICALLY Akt/NFkB.
When those genes are activated, this triggers the "cholesterol pathway".
Bb follows this pathway to build and rebuild its cell walls.
The fact is...to destroy a pathogen, we must either damage the cell walls or prevent them from forming in the first place.
We need to INactivate HMG CoA reductase to halt cholesterol production...ideally targeted to only those cells in which Bb is camped out.
Those HeLa cells are "immortal" thanks to Bb's presence.
Not good.
ROS = free radicals then have to destroy those cells to get "at" Bb. A lot of collateral damage happens when so many free radicals are present.
When those infected cells are damaged, this may "free" Bb to "move on".
Bb has MANY ways to protect itself from free radical damage including the ability to rebuild its cell wall.
We need to stop the building/rebuilding of Bb's cell walls.
Condroitin sulfate specifically (targeted) BLOCKS Akt/NFkB and reduces TNF alpha.
It looks to take Rx strength...and initially loading doses to work.
So does Mg (inhibit HMG CoA reductase), but getting Mg back IN the cells is a problem since it is driven by ATP and the infected cells are making far too little ATP.
See my post on Condrosulf...print it out for your LLMD to consider.
Pay close attention to the following:
"A fundamental ultrastructural feature shared by the spirochetal pathogens Treponema pallidum subsp. pallidum (T. pallidum) and Borrelia burgdorferi, the etiological agents of venereal syphilis and Lyme disease, respectively, is that
their most abundant membrane proteins contain covalently attached fatty acids.
***B. burgdorferi contained only phosphatidylglycerol and phosphatidylcholine.***"
Got those 2 above? Watch for them below.
"Significant increases in saturated fatty acids, unsaturated fattyacids,phosphatidylethanolamine,
***phosphatidylcholine*** and ***phosphatidylglycerol*** levels were found in response to
Akt *activation* in these cells."
IF we block Akt (gene) signals in the HeLa cells, we are in essence halting the "cholesterol pathway" in those cells...which IS one of the many pathways Bb is taking.
Have I lost you yet?
[ 18. October 2008, 02:43 AM: Message edited by: Marnie ]
Posts: 9431 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
This is part of the Human leukocyte antigen test (HLA). HLA DR4 is a possible result of the test.
This test is a tissue typeing test used for organ transplant. It's also used in Dr. S's protocol to identify people who don't make enough antibodies to get rid of certain toxins.
The premise is that some people don't make enough antibodies to get rid of one or more of the following depending on your test results: Borrelia, mycotoxins (mold), spider bite toxins and some other toxins as listed on the websites below.
If you don't make enough antibodies you will store the toxins forever because your body does not tell you to get rid of them. If you don't get rid of the toxins, you will feel sick even if you kill off the infection and are not exposed to further toxins.
If you have certain genetic HLA patterns, you will need to take a mechanical binder to bind the toxins and remove them from your body. My sisters and I have the dreaded multi-susceptible HLA pattern which according to one doctor means we need to be on a binder for the rest of our lives.
The book mold warriors has an appendix that will help you interpret the test but it is not easy to read or understand.
I do not beleive this theory is accepted in mainstream medicine. In my non-professional view, it could explain why some people remain ill even after treatment. Why some people get really sick while in treatment. Why some people don't make enough antibodies to get a positive lyme test result even though they have positive tissue or spinal tap results.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
Why would anti bodies have anything to do with storing toxins. This I cannot understand.
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
It takes Mg (and Ca) to make antibodies. And Mg is needed to *bind* the antibody to the antigen (both are proteins).
The drop in Mg levels at the outset of lyme is astounding. (Romanian abstract)
Since it takes awhile to make antibodies initially, some genes kick in to help out. c-fos/2jun...TNF alpha, IL1 B, NFkB is a transcription factor that alters our response.
And then when the antibodies are made...there is a problem with a "fab" portion (means fragment).
"Characterization of the physiological requirements for the bactericidal effects of a *monoclonal antibody* to OspB of Borrelia burgdorferi by confocal microscopy.
The bactericidal effect of Fab-CB2 is not dependent on the induction of spirochetal proteases but
is dependent on the presence of Ca2+ and Mg2+.
Supplementation of Ca2(+)- and Mg2(+)-free medium with these cations
restored the bactericidal effects of Fab-CB2.
The mechanism by which a Fab fragment of an antibody destroys a bacterium directly may represent a novel form of antibody-organism interaction.
PMID: 9125579
Deficiency of Mg is a serious problem.
Restoring Mg levels in the infected cells is very very difficult and the body kidney cells regulate the level of Mg (and other electrolytes) in the bloodstream.
Link to a picture follows ..easy to understand how antibodies can block the docking of a pathogen.
Polyclonal antibodies are antibodies that are derived from ***different B cell lines***. They are a mixture of immunoglobulin molecules secreted against a specific antigen, each recognising a different epitope.
Typically, a sequela is a chronic condition that is a complication of an acute condition
that begins during the acute condition.
Penicillin? Not tetracycline?
Posts: 9431 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5230
posted
i'm still trying to understand the toxin relationship.
but my llmd gave me that test and said because i was positive it meant when i got Bb...it started an automatic reaction that meant i would deal with arthritis for the rest of my life-whether i got rid of Bb or not.
it seems he was right. its been about 10 yrs. alot of my Bb symptoms went away but not the joint pain. i have had 10 successful ortho surgeries and still need 3 more. in addition i have osteo arthritis all thru my back and deal with that with PT and exercise
the reason my llmd gave me the test was if i had the gene and my only symptom was joint pain...he didint; feel we should continue aggressive abx therapy-he thought the lyme was undercontrol and my joint pain was from the arthritis
my understanding is 1/3 of the population has this gene (4 or 5) and they are the people who got really sick with arthrits when they took lymerix
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
Ipkayak asked Why would anti bodies have anything to do with storing toxins. This I cannot understand.
I think the key for those of us with this gene is to find a way to bind the toxins and remove them from our bodies.
Cholestyramine is one way and probably critical for some of us. One or two doses a day are not enough. 3 min, maybe more. Actos is needed to downregulate cytokines and other hormones when initiating this treatment.
Making sure we are not exposed to mycotoxins will help. No reason to add more toxins to an already over-burdened system.
I've found pekana drainage remedies helpful. Don't know if they work on mycotoxins but they've helped me. I think many lyme patients have compromised cell membranes. My cells were full of toxins. The drainage remedies help to get the toxins out of my cells.
I'm trying many different things. I don't think they've found everything that will take care of this problem.
I'm not accepting that I will always have arthritis. I think that the toxins from borrelia are what give us most of our symptoms and we need to figure out a way to get the toxins out.
I think coffee enemas and FIR sauna will both help. Benotonite clay and charcoal may also help to some degree. I'm sure there are many more things waiting in the wings to be discovered.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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