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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Are there any auditory learners in Lyme disease?

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Author Topic: Are there any auditory learners in Lyme disease?
Peedie
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I find I can not retain information or follow instructions given verbally very well anymore. And I do make a great effort. I really need to have them in writing. Is this part of the cognetive issues that go with Lyme? Makes attending a seminar tough - I mean sometimes you can't get everything in writing.
-p

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feelfit
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peedie,

I'm the exact opposite, can't understand written instructions, but explained instructions I do fine with.

feelfit

ps/ one of my front teeth was chipped/broken when I woke up this morning. I have to have it bonded!

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Peedie
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feelfit
I had a back molar break - I go in next Tuesday for a crown! Is this also Lyme related?
-p

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METALLlC BLUE
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My verbal, and auditory memory is still effective, but my visual and spatial memory is impaired. No matter what, my ability to learn is impaired.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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Lymetoo
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An interesting thought!!! [Smile]

I'm very visual .. auditory is worthless for me too! I learn best by "doing."

But I found out during teaching that everyone learns differently. We were taught to teach to all four styles of learning.

It worked!

here is info on what we used:

http://www.geocities.com/jeniskanen/4mat.htm

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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treepatrol
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Peedie listen I had the same thing happen and found out that I was b12 defficient I had a molar break and it didnt even have a cavity.
After my first shot I noticed a very good thing my shoulders stopped aching within a hour.
Read the posted links info..


More on B Vitamin deficiency or B 12

B 12 shots whos getting them?

--------------------
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.

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Peedie
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Wow Tree - that is all very good information - thanks. I will print it out when I get home. My daughter and I are both in treatment for Lyme. Her blood tests show she is border-line B deficient. The LLMD increased her B supplements significantly and she is on Prylocet (sp) now. He said she does not preform well on the abx treatment because she is not absorbing neutrients adequately. This also adds to her sleep problems.
I will see what my blood work shows. He orders bloodwork constantly - I guess this is one reason why huh? I am doing well on Amoxycillin. I am especially interested in reading the section in interactions btw. food-herbs-other drugs and abx.
My leg pain did return on Friday - alto tolerable - I thought was a Herx - but maybe something else.
Never thought to tell my LLMD about the molar cracking. My dentist said it was unusual and said he thought I grind my teeth too hard. I may grind my teeth when I sleep. I've heard most people do. But then again - the tooth is the hardest object in the body. Very strong. Unless there could be a health issue, vitamin deficiency perhaps causing weakness.
More and more I realize I need to keep learning, ask questions and get answers to help myself get well.
Thanks all,
-p

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Larkspur
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I had auditory processing/auditory memory issues since childhood

coincidently, I have had Lyme disease since childhood - diagnosed at 34, I'm now 39.

basically I eventually learned to write everything down and was able to capitalize on other learning modalities and do quite well

It was really frustrating at times as a child because I didn't understand why I couldn't remember auditory instructions when everyone else could

--------------------
"We must be willing to get rid of
the life we've planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us" - e.m. forster

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Beverly
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I have a hard time with verbal instructions as well, especially if someone is saying 3 or more things to do. I won't remember. Writing it down and reading it over and over helps me.

I recently got a job and boy do people who are not sick have it good! I realize now by working and being around others how hard everything is for me. I have to work 10 times harder then my co-workers.
It has been embarrassing at times, but I just make dumb lame excuses and get through it.

One positive thing for me tho is I can do things now that I couldn't do when I was 15 -16 years old. So all my years of abx have really helped me.

I used to think I was just stupid and now I know that I am not, I am sick.

--------------------
God Bless You! Everything..is just my opinion.

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treepatrol
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quote:
Originally posted by Peedie:
Wow Tree - that is all very good information - thanks. I will print it out when I get home. My daughter and I are both in treatment for Lyme. Her blood tests show she is border-line B deficient. The LLMD increased her B supplements significantly and she is on Prylocet (sp) now. He said she does not preform well on the abx treatment because she is not absorbing neutrients adequately. This also adds to her sleep problems.
I will see what my blood work shows. He orders bloodwork constantly - I guess this is one reason why huh? I am doing well on Amoxycillin. I am especially interested in reading the section in interactions btw. food-herbs-other drugs and abx.
My leg pain did return on Friday - alto tolerable - I thought was a Herx - but maybe something else.
Never thought to tell my LLMD about the molar cracking. My dentist said it was unusual and said he thought I grind my teeth too hard. I may grind my teeth when I sleep. I've heard most people do. But then again - the tooth is the hardest object in the body. Very strong. Unless there could be a health issue, vitamin deficiency perhaps causing weakness.
More and more I realize I need to keep learning, ask questions and get answers to help myself get well.
Thanks all,
-p

All I did was bite a apple and pushed it back like you do to chew and I heard loud crack and spit it out geez half a molar that got my attention so I started searching my symptoms and abx use and B12 kept coming up so I had llmd give me a shot whoa what a difference I new right there 1 or so hrs later that was the the low level acheing and brittle tooth eye problems etc just get a couple shots I know they will help and they cant hurt you your body will use or store what it needs and pass the rest.

Remember one in the bum big dose and after that I put them under the skin in my belly at a 10 to 30 degree angle between fat and skin so they absorbed slower but the one in the bum muscle will or should cause you some changes for the good unless your b1`2 stores were even lower than mine.

--------------------
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.

Newbie Links

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treepatrol
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quote:
Originally posted by Peedie:
I will print it out when I get home. My daughter and I are both in treatment for Lyme. Her blood tests show she is border-line B deficient. The LLMD increased her B supplements significantly and she is on Prylocet (sp) now Thanks all,
-p

Increasing the b12 to be taken orally wont help if the intrinsic factor is bad..
She will have to have b12 shots in the backside.
or after a few of those you can get sublingual tabs they are absorbed under the tounge I couldnt get enough that way but there are some here that say they do.

--------------------
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.

Newbie Links

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treepatrol
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Ps with me I found I need a shot every fourth day or the achey feeling comesback.
Some Drs say that b12 should be overloaded at first to catch up then reduced to once a month.

--------------------
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.

Newbie Links

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mazou
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Peedie,

Speaking of auditory learning, I have been just reading a book called "Superlearning 2000" where they discuss different types of music and auditory therapy that help people come over a variety of problems, such as autism and dyslexia. They say it's like "uncrossing the signals."

Hope this helps. Good luck to you.

Mazou

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lymemommy
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peddie,

going back to your original question, I can say that my son, who has lyme, is most definately an auditory learner.

Because he caught lyme before he learned to read, he has been learning through pure memorization. He has had difficulty with visual processing, which has impaired his ability to learn how to read (this has been correcting with tx).

Despite this, he has aced 5 out of 7 spelling tests this year, and got an 80% and 90% respectively on the other two. He is excellent at math, able to add numbers without benefit of pencil and paper.

my guess is that his brain has compensated for a weakness in one area by developing strengths in another.

If you do some research on learning disabilities in children with lyme, neuropsychological testing of kids with lyme, and kids with lyme in school, you will find that there is lots of documentation that lyme does indeed affect the processing of information, and has been associated with drops in IQ, and of course in school performance, and also that when children are treated, they can return to their former level of functioning.

Although you are not a kid, reading up on this may help you understand why it is that you are having trouble retaining auditory information.

I hope that helps.
kp

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Peedie
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Lymemommy: developing your son's memory will help him a great deal in school. My daughter has a photo-graphic memory and is brilliant.

mazou: my daughter (a speech-language pathology major) says the book you describe is the "Choral Effect". It sounds very interesting. Thanks

Thanks to everyone who shared. Good to know I'm not alone.
-p

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dguy
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quote:
Originally posted by Peedie:
feelfit
I had a back molar break - I go in next Tuesday for a crown! Is this also Lyme related?
-p

Awhile ago, I had a rash of chipped teeth and broken molars. I was heading to the dentist every few months. It was a lyme symptom. When I cut my vitamin D intake, this problem stopped completely.

Like so many lymies, for me the infection was consuming my 25D (the type usually tested) and making too much 1,25D (the type rarely tested). Excessively high 1,25D weakens bones.

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Lymeindunkirk
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Beverly,

Not being able to remember three things or more to do without writing it down sounds like executive dysfunction. It is also caused by lyme disease and can get better with treatment although I don't think it ever completely goes away. I know this why? Because my son has it, has seen a pedaitric neuropyschologist twice and I've been very involved in the 504 route at school to have accomodations in place for him. Look it up on the internet.

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Lymeindunkirk
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when I said it is caused by lyme disease I didn't mean to make you think only lyme disease cause it. I meant it is a cognitive symptom for many with lyme disease. Some people have it without lyme although I wonder if they just don't know they have lyme disease. I knew my son had executive dysfunction before I actually knew he had lyme.
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Peedie
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dguy
Thank you for the vit.D information. I am wondering if you have any additional information? I ask because my daughter and I are on the NO/OHNO vitamin supplement (pain casscade) and vitamin D is one of the supplements. Regardless of supplementing with vit.D, my daughter's bloodwork shows she is defecient for D and the LLMD wants to increase it for the time being.
-p

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Peedie
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I guess I have really gotten side-tracked and off the original subject. And I may be the only one out her now. But if anyone can shed some light on the vitamin D issue?

I don't want my daughter to go through what I have with the broken tooth.
I found this from the book "Lyme Disease Solution" by Ken Singleton MD:

Vitamin D: Vitamin D is a nutrient that in recent years has become increasingly recognized for its health properties.

Additionally, recent research suggests that a high percentage of people in the United States are deficient in vitamin D, especially those who usually receive little to no exposure to natural sunlight on a daily basis.

Additionally, vitamin D levels in the body typically diminish after the age of 40.

A study published in June 2007 in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition showed that supplementation of vitamin D in older women reduced their risk of cancer by an amazing 60 percent.

Among its many important roles, vitamin D helps support the body's endocrine system, especially the adrenal and thyroid glands.

Studies in recent years have shown that vitamin D plays a major role in the regulation (not mere suppression) of the immune system.

It has been shown that low vitamin D levels are associated with increased levels of inflammatory markers such as IL-6, TNF-alpha, and CRP.

As I discussed in chapter 4, vitamin D plays an important role in the reduction of autoimmunity by helping the body to control excessive Th1 responses.

Its immune-regulatory function is vital to good health.

Treatment with vitamin D can reduce musculoskeletal pain in a certain percentage of Lyme patients.

For this reason, I believe that Lyme patients with chronic inflammatory problems should be assessed for vitamin D deficiency with a blood test called ``25-hydroxy vitamin D.''

Supplementation with sunlight Core Treatment Strategies for Lyme Disease and Other Tick-Borne Diseases 2 6 5 or oral vitamin D should be done if levels are low (less than 40 ng/mL).

The usual oral supplement dosage for vitamin D (D3 or cholecalciferol is the preferred form of vitamin D) is 400-5,000 IU per day, depending on the level of deficiency.

The goal of vitamin D supplementation (along with sunlight) is to achieve a level of 45-60 ng/mL. I don't recommend levels over 70 ng/mL for prolonged periods of time.

Interestingly, sunlight may result in formation of 10,000-20,000 IU per day, but feedback control mechanisms in the skin prevent toxic vitamin D blood levels from occurring.

Therefore, if your vitamin D level is too high, the elevated blood level must be occurring from oral intake of vitamin D and not from sunlight.

Finally, there is one exception to my vitamin D recommendations above. If a person has Lyme and a condition called ``sarcoidosis,'' then restriction of vitamin D may be useful.

Magnesium: Both Lyme and Bartonella significantly deplete the body's supply of magnesium.

Magnesium is one of the most important mineral nutrients necessary for good health, and also one of the minerals that Americans in general are most commonly deficient in.

The recommended daily intake of magnesium for healthy people is 400 mg per day, but the sad reality is that the average American gets about half that amount per day.

The best nutritional sources include green foods, especially collards and chard (magnesium is to chlorophyll what iron is to hemoglobin), orange-colored foods, nuts, chocolate, figs, apricots, coconut, bran, oats, beans, and legumes.

Most widely known for its ability to support the health of the bones, heart, skeletal muscles, and teeth, magnesium also plays essential roles in the maintenance and repair of all body cells, energy production, hormone regulation, nerve transmission, and the metabolism of proteins and nucleic acids.

It also helps to reverse muscular tension and is involved in the functioning of literally hundreds of the body's enzymatic reactions.

A lack of magnesium can also contribute to immune system dysfunction, depression, fatigue, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, gastrointestinal problems, irregular heartbeat, memory problems, mood swings, muscle spasms and twitching, and motor skill problems.

Many chronic symptoms of Lyme/TBDs are related to magnesium deficiency, and the correction of that deficiency can be very effective in relieving those symptoms.

For that reason, I routinely test nearly all patients with chronic Lyme symptoms for magnesium deficiency.

The problem with blood testing is that the magnesium blood test should be done on the red bloods cells and not the serum.

This is because magnesium exists primarily inside of cells (intracellular, as in red blood cells), and deficiency will not be detected in fluid outside of the cells (extracellular, as in serum or plasma) until a very profound deficiency exists.

If you can afford it, the best, and also most expensive, test is the blood ``ionized'' magnesium (performed by most large commercial labs).

If blood testing shows low levels of magnesium and if kidney function is good, supplementation is highly recommended, in a dosage range of 400-1,000 mg per day.

Take in divided doses because taking large amounts of magnesium may result in loose stools.

There are many good products on the market, the best of which contain primarily magnesium chloride or ``chelated'' magnesium (such as taurate, citrate, aspartate, glycinate, and others.)

It's a lot - I know - and he uses long sentences -so was hard to break up. I included the magnesium part because is mentions the health of teeth.

I'm impressed by the bit I found on his book in the Inet - I think I buy it.
-p

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