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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Bio-Feedback Session - Quantum Machine

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Author Topic: Bio-Feedback Session - Quantum Machine
seekhelp
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I had a bio-feedback session at my holistic doc today. It lasted 2 hours. The practicioner hooked up some bands to my wrists, ankles, and forehead. The session 'usually' costs $350, but he discounted it to $200.

I have to say I'm pretty disappointed in the process. I'm losing a lot faith in all this alternative/energy type medicine. I feel like practicioners are out to take sick people for a ride and I'm TIRED of it. Maybe I'm totally wrong, but the person ran checks on all my major organs and other issues.

Some comments made were the following:

- Severe liver toxicity - running @ 15% of normal - liver has a viral infection in it. - NO ID on the virus

- Severe pancreas inflammation - 10% of normal - No cause as to why

- Epstein Barr Virus - present in body

- malfunctioning of pituatary - no known cause

- Absolute SEVERE MSG allergy - he says so bad enough would land me int he hospital

- one sweep showed defective kidney infection - 30 minutes later it was perfectly fine

- No thyroid issues

- Severe adrenal fatigue

- inflammation of muscles - unknown cause

- Lyme disease - ABSOLUTELY NOT

- Imbalance of left / right side of brain - corrected in session

- small intestine and bowel inflammation - no cause - note my upper GI was perfect this year - no issues with bowel movements in frequency nor consistency - TMI. [Smile]

- Clogged lymphatic system - operating under 25%.

- Severe potassium deficiency - ALL blood work is perfect for K for 10 years

- Allergy to bulger - already on gluten/dairy-
free diet since Aug-08 - no issues there.

- Cancer - no evidence

- Heart issues - none

- Vitamin B deficiency - ALL blood work perfect for 10 years

- Allergy to strawberries - eat rarely anyways

Basically, I'm wondering if these practicioners just use your health story you're telling them when running the program and generate vague issues that anyone may have, but do not have to be proven? Scam?

Recommendstions given to me:

- drink pure filtered HOT water - 6-8 cups per day - says it's mandatory and will generate huge results for me and possibly flush out this liver virus

- take 1-2 Tbsp of a specific type of granulated Lechtin 3x day

- Take a supplement called Sweedish Bitters (not in stock until mid-Jan-09)

- take an adrenal support formula from Standard Process (name not available right now). I was told it doesn't work for some and a more successful one is Rhodiola Forte from Hollywood Health Products

- Recommended a supplement called Devacor (2x meal) along with my current digstive enzymes - muscle tested it strongly. He said the new supplements works on different issues.

- Said I'm taking too many supplements now and it's not good. He said you can get toxic from supplement overload.

- COMPLETELY avoid MSG - said it's the most important of all for me.

- avoid eating bottom feeding fish such as shrimp, oysters, etc. - don't each much shrimp now, but every once in a while - hardly eat fish anyways

- Avoid unfermented soy products when possible because they are bad for thyroid - said drink rice or almond milk instead

- Mentioned nothing about treating 'supposed' potassium deficiency

- Said avoid ALL diet drinks with artificial sweeteners - do already - said regular pop is better.

- No recommendations to continue Lyme/Babesia treatment

Well...is this take me for a ride and wasted $200 day or is there merit? Do you feel these statements are so general, they could apply to anyone? I kind of do. [Frown] At first, I thought he was going to push supplements hard when he muscle tested, but he didn't. He may have been able to tell my attitude about doing this and intuitively swayed in another direction.

Would you believe I took no notes and remembered every one of these details off the top of my head? I have a very good memory!! [Smile]

So...your thoughts please? He recommended I return in four weeks for another appointment. I'm not sure why one would return for this type of service? Is this normal practice?

[ 18. December 2008, 09:09 PM: Message edited by: seekhelp ]

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lymie_in_md
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It is really hard to say. I suspect your right, he suspected you wouldn't buy a lot of supplements.

How was the practioner testing you, muscle testing or was it a machine. Was there two methods of testing one to confirm the other. Any holistic practioner I've used has two or more methods and doesn't just depend on one method.

However in working with a biotensor, I now agree we all take way to many supplements. If I had to look over the 3 months of using it. I'm now down to fish oil and feel better.

Another point view, how can a doctor tell if you have faulty liver function. Is ultrasound or blood test enough?

So when you comment on whether energy medicine is good or bad. It may depend on how good the practioner is. Just like it is with LLMDs treating lyme versus PCPs.

--------------------
Bob

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seekhelp
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Testing was done with the machine, with the exception of several supplements he had me hold and tested arm strength.

Liver function can be tested via blood work, right? My ultrasound was fine this year. I do have high bilirubin levels though. I'm guessing 90% of the US population have toxic livers.

I can stop my Lyme/Babesia treatment. It didn't detect it...YAHOO!!!

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AlisonP
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I was a certified practitioner on this machine. I logged many many hours using it both on myself and others.

I don't know what to say without going into long explanations, but the bottom line for me is that in my opinion it is not a useful tool for either diagnosis or treatment. Not to say it's totally useless, I did have some intersting experiences.

Alison

--------------------
 -

The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer. --- Edward R. Murrow

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lymie_in_md
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I didn't know the quantum machine was a QXCI so was a little perplexed. Seekhelp, you probably got flimflammed. QXCI isn't a very good machine check out the following link:

http://www.energy-medicine.info/epfx-qxci-scio-quantum-xrroid.html

No wonder they were willing to discount.

--------------------
Bob

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seekhelp
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I know others may not want to hear this, but this is exactly what I despise alternative medicine. This session was recommended by one of the most prominent holistic medicine practicioners in the entire country too. In fact, he's so famous, he's written 8-10 books, writes a newsletter, travels Internationally, etc.

The office is touted to do miracles for many people...nothing for me at all though. I'm thinking maybe I should just stick with traditional medicine and stop chasing my tail. It has cost a LOT of money my family could use. I'm surprised the machine didn't tell me I should tie my shoelaces to be safe and stay bundled up in cold weather.

I can see the web of believing every clinical diagnosis, believing every supplement/vitamin/alternative fad to drain someone's pocketbook fast! Maybe instead of letting these doctors drive their BMWs and Mercedes at my expense, I should use my brain power and reconsider?

I'm sure some on here will blast me....others will agree. There's a lot of recommendations to do these type of things on Lymenet, but I don't know what personal career/background everyone has. Some people may even do this for a living running alternative medicine practices!!

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lymie_in_md
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QXCI -- is one method there are others. I think the asyra Dr. Cowden is using or an EDS by a good practioner can tell you far more then you can find out with traditional medicine, IMO.

I guess with you, if 1 machine doesn't work, they all don't work. Don't ever get an EKG done, it is a biofeedback device. And the lie detectors they must be flim flam as well, they are also biofeedback.

Before you condemn all, do a little research first.

Also I'm curious who this vaunted holistic guy is, PM me please.

By the way, just 10 minutes of research on QXCI you could have found what I did.

--------------------
Bob

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seekhelp
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Bob, PM sent. [Smile]
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seekhelp
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Well.....they reveal the truth again. I should've read more. [Frown]

http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Tests/xrroid.html

In fact, Mr. Barrett says I should contact the government authorities to report this person. Well?

Hell, I could even buy one. [Smile]

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-health-special-needs-Used-Quantum-Biofeedback-EPFX-SCIO-stress-management-system-W0QQAdIdZ82649831

The practicioner I saw told me an amazing story about a women he met that got very ill and wound up wheelchair bound. Docs couldn't figure out what it was. The Quantum machine was able to tell she was poisoned by a spider bite and EXACTLY which type of spider it was!! Apparently, this spider was not believed to exist in MI. The women all of a sudden recalled a camping trip where a spider got into a bag and she did get bit!! Holy smokes. That's just spooky it could predict that event.

Well, and the final kicker...the reason I'm SO SO skpetical of alternative medicine, all this energy-healing talk on Lymenet, etc. is:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004020583_miracle18m2.html

I can only blame myself for being an idiot. A fool once..yes. A fool a second time? NOPE. How can anyone on here dispute this stuff, seriously?

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lymie_in_md
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seekhelp -- Please don't quote [puke] ooops lost it, Steven Barrett. It too much like going to the dark side.

Look, the EDS (electro dermal screening) I had done was legit. She was able to correctly identify all 6 of my root canals with no help from me.

She was the first to identify lyme and my doctor clinically and using ART confirmed lyme.

Just because the QXCI device may not be legit, doesn't mean others aren't.

--------------------
Bob

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seekhelp
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Bob,

Can you provide links to more info on EDS? What kind of cost was it to undergo the process? I'm just educating myself. Learning never hurts. Sorry to make you vomit when I mentioned Mr. Barrett (does he deserve the term Mister even?).

Bob, I did find this:

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/electro.html

I'll get the paper bag out for you. [Smile]

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GiGi
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http://nccam.nih.gov/health/backgrounds/energymed.htm


Just a note here, my cure from Lyme Disease was accomplished mainly with the aid of energy medicine. Little or nothing else has brought me back to life.

One has to remember that energy medicine does not forecast. The results merely mean that at this particular time the body is mainly concerned with the conditions that show and can be interpreted as problems. ART, for instance, is never used to establish a diagnosis.

In general, if you have a problem with any of this kind of testing, it is best to stay away from it. Calling it names and ridiculing a treatment method that is ancient and has kept its place in society for centuries is not appreciated by the people who feel positive about it.

Energy medicine has become part of mainstream medicine a long time ago.

Your exam has identified some significant weak spots. That is the aim of energy medicine. Your liver is screaming for help and the sooner you can give it an assist, the better and the shorter your way to getting well. The same for viral infections. Antivirals cover many viruses - so why not act upon that finding?

You might want to repeat all those tests with traditional lab tests - and see what you come up with. I saved a lot of money in the long run by avoiding inconclusive lab tests.

Energy medicine has already found a solid place and I don't think it is going away anytime soon.

Not only that, but you can easily learn some of the testing yourself and be way ahead. Bob might agree with that.

Good luck to you, Seekhelp.

Take care.

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seekhelp
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GiGi,

Perhaps I am being too vague in some respects. The Seattle Times article that stated a Microsoft engineer tore the Quantum machine apart and confirmed it's a random number generator really irritates me. That's pretty black and white and the originator's historical background, if true, is upsetting. What faith can I put in this particular practicioner?

Maybe I just don't know enough about ART. I'll admit that. If the governemnt is putting grants out for energy medicine, I have to believe some merit exists. BUT, doesn't the government say Lyme disease isn't an epidemic? [Smile]

I should note that I am not a complete non-believer in bio-feedback. I did something called Interactive Light Therapy six months ago for a few sessions and noticed a weird calming feeling and slowing of heart rate. I thought I was going nuts, but it did have some effect. I believe it's another form of bio-feedback. The cost was too much to continue indefinitely, but it caught my attention.

My problem is not with others doing this type of thing. It's with practicioners knowingly taking others' hard earned money making false promises with randon number generators. The exam was based solely on a computer's output..at least 95% or more of it. What am I supposed to think? Do you believe a machine can Dx 10,000 health issues in several minutes? C'mon really? How much money do you want to bet on it?

My lab tests DO NOT support most of his assertions. That's my issue. Let's see:

- Low potassium - not confirmed by blood
- Deficient in B vitamins - not confirmed by blood
- MSG allergy - not confirmed by Genova on IgG testing
- Allergic to strawberries - not confirmed by IgG food testing
- Liver viral infection - he mentions EBV - who doesn't have this by age 30+? Too broad of a comment - also, he could easily have deduced this and believed it to be a viable thing to bring up since he was talking to me about my health during our 2 hr session.
- Pancreas low function - nope - not confirmed by any blood tests
- Adrenal issues - obvious one that could apply to any person willing to spend $200 on this sort of testing AND knowing my health story would make anyone low on it - note - not confirmed by blood testing
- Lyme disease - he says no - well y'all say IGenix is good as gold and they say yes with positive IgM bands - how should I take this?

Advice given to me - COMPLETELY GENERAL

- drink water - to kill this virus?
- avoid diet drinks
- avoid soy milk (note, my holisitic doctor just wrote an 8 page article on the dangers of Soy in a nationally published newsletter people can subscribe to AND this practicioner works in the same office)
- Avoid bottom feeding fish because they eat poop - well....
- Take digestive enzymes - pretty common

GiGi, am I missing something here? Anyone else? Please objectively look at what I wrote, the machine used and the Seattle Times article, and the advice given. I believe specific individuals may be gifted at things like ART, but this obviously wasn't what I dealt with.

I don't know how else to express this stuff....Instead of this going in the Salt/C thread direction, I won't comment more. We all have differences of opinion. I'll respect that and let others read the facts I've stated and generate their own opinion on the experience I had.

Ok and one more thing..how do you think my holistic doctor would react if I faxed him that Seattle Times article and asked him why he sent me to this person IN HIS OWN office? As I said, he's very well known and respected throughout the county. Why on earth would he endorse this? His reputation is on the line. This blows my mind.

But after all this skepticism, I'll still try the recommendations. Who knows...maybe I'll find a miracle. [Smile]

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lymie_in_md
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Seekhelp -- I don't know of a single site better explaining the different energy technologies then Inergetix core. Look over the entire site, Kirwan in my estimation is a biophysicist on the cutting edge. Really read up this it will take a while.

As far as EDS is concerned. It again depends on the practioner. I would love to have an assessment from Dr. K. using ART, but there are still very good ART practioners. So it goes with EDS, EDS depends very much on the practioner. Both the machine and the practioner need to be investigated.

As far as the most effective device for the money is the biotensor. It is with you all the time.

As far as blood tests, if you think you can concretely agree with them, that is a huge mistake. Our bodies change minute to minute. A blood test is nothing but a snapshot in time. Most good practioners look at it that way. A member of my family was diagnosed with hepatitis C, and she had some virus at the time, had a more sensitive test and it was completely negative. Blood tests are not as reliable as we like to think.

My blood liver tests were always normal. However when I did a cleanse and put out thousands of stones. Well, I hope you get my point.

Not all of us have livers as congested as mine was. And another question: was my liver congested due to lyme or years of poor eating, I think the latter.

--------------------
Bob

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seekhelp
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Bob,

You make some good points, especially concening blood tests being 'snapshots in time.' I have yet to meet a doctor state that belief, but it makes perfect sense. The only way to prove it would be extremely cost inefficient. For example, taking 10 blood draws for Mg levels each day for 30 days.

Keebler, I respect your ideas and am happy it has helped you so much. I don't have zero faith in it, but I am realistic. Thinking this magic box can possibly predict the level of information it is stating to is just not possible. It would have to be a divine spirit.

Well, I've decided to do something. I've written a comprehensive letter summarizing my session (both issues brought up and recommendations given) to fax to my holistic doctor. I also am attaching copies of the Seattle Times and Quackwatch letters with it.

Let's see how the person responds. The letter is not written in an accusation manner. I am basically being a 'curious' patient about the experience i had. Either it'll be defensive, which will make me think this is fraudulent, or he'll have a good explanation, or he'll suddently dis-associate himself with this person in the office and say it's not his recommendation even though he highly referred him and told me to drop $200.

If I lose the person as a doctor, so be it. Sometimes, you need to have your feet to the fire and understand how a sick patient feels and how important $200 is to them. Know what I mean? I am not one to fall for everything and certainly am intelligent enough to grasp the whole situation.

P.S. Keebler, now you're making me feel nutty...I swear you posted under Bob. lol.

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lymie_in_md
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Seekhelp -- I should have posted the following link. It describes all the different energetic methods and describes them and their potential efficacy.

http://www.energy-medicine.info/technologies.html

If you do anything -- read the entire site, it could make you an expert on all the different machines.

I believe Kirwan Schmidt is getting closer to helping people on all the healing levels Dr. K. has described in the 5 levels of healing. He is a biophysicist from Germany who is making a lot of inroads all over the world.

Enjoy -- Bob

--------------------
Bob

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massman
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I do have to say that quackwatch is one of the most unreliable sites in the world.

If something differs from trad med in any way Barrett disses it. He supposedly is an MD but has never treated people.

He lives in a theoretical world and IMO is an idiot.

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lymie_in_md
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Massman -- couldn't agree more. IMO, Steven Barrett would get the bone head award hands down if there weren't soooooo many qualified candidates from the IDSA. [lol]

--------------------
Bob

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seekhelp
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I honestly don't give much credibility to so called Dr. Barrett. What I'm trying to do is separate fact from fiction. That is why I want my doctor who has such high credentials to inform be why he believed the Quantum bio-feedback machine had merit. He's very research-oriented on other topics he's written books on.

It makes me question the motives at play. My concern:

Step 1: He consults with patients (doctor makes money - place is NOT cheap)
Step 2: He advises me to do Quantum session
Step 3: The practicioner works in the same office (perhaps even leases space) - most likely doctor makes money from sub-contractor
Step 4: Practicioner has many supplements in the room and conveniently even has the exact ones he recommended to me in his desk drawer and says 'See I practice what I preach?'
Step 5: Holistic doctor has a HUGE supplement selling business out of the office (both in-office and even intricate mail order program).
Step 6: Practicioner recommends supplements to me - perhaps even moreso if he didn't get the inclination I'm not geared to take many more.
Step 7: I take the advice of the Quantum practicioner and buy more supplements sold by my physician's office. As most holistic doctors, my physician already recommended a decent amount of supplements during my medical appts. This is adding fuel to the fire.

See the conflict of interest in play here? Of course, I know supplements are part of hoslitic medicine and I'm not blind to that. I accept that part, but popping pills isn't the cure all. I don't see many people chiming in here which is surprising, but how can this logic be acceptable?

Thanks Bob for the link. I'll research it thoroughly as the topic surely interests me. For me, having a checks and balance system in place to avoid patient abuse is most important (no supplement sales / profiting, no kickbacks to referring physician, etc.). Many times, we'll never know what really happens behind the scenes, but when it's smack in your face, man does it bother me.

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seekhelp
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Just had a question....how many of you would write a letter to your doctor in this situation? I already wrote the letter and am trying to decide whether to send or not along with the Seattle Times article. I am NOT sending the Quackwatch review as I do not want to give Dr. Barrett the dignity of being a source referenced. lol.

The Seattle Times article is compelling evidence.

I know I could just chalk it up to ignorance on my part due to lack of research, but for some reason, I feel this doc should have accountability since he personally recommended it to me and the practicioner is surely affiliated with his office. I didn't pursue it on my own. That's what irks me so much.

He may get upset and drop me as a patient if he's too egotistical, but IMO that's alright as I'll know the kind of physician I'm dealing with.

Opinions? I tried to tone the letter respectfully, but very questioning at the same time.

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lymie_in_md
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A good practioner can take criticism, criticism when constructive is powerful method of illiciting dialogue. Hopefully with dialogue everyone learns something and grows.

Whatever views we have, have to be challenge constantly. Energy medicine is a good example of territory not very well explored. And it should be!!! We are more energy oriented then matter oriented, yet 99% of all budgets on health are geared to matter oriented solutions. Why is that (I bet its a bit to do with greed)!

LEDs right now are energy oriented solutions, trying to diagnose illness through radionics seems more promising. Treating illness by adjusting the body through electronic accupuncture might also be a promising method for chronically ill people getting well. Practioners all around might do better to view the body in this way.

By the way a question : is ultrasound energy medicine or matter oriented? I believe it is energy medicine not nearly as sophisticated as some of the newer forms of radionics.

And did you know, with ultrasound you can tell how congested the liver is or how well the heart is functioning. When we have symptoms we should be pushing our PCPs to have this kind of analysis done, most times it isn't.

--------------------
Bob

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D Bergy
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Many on the Rife forum believe the QXCI device does absolutely nothing. Possibly a scam device.

When tested by one member, they could find no frequencies of any kind emmited from the device. If it could work it is not using any known method that is measurable. And i have never heard of even a reasonable explanation of how it is supposed to work.

The good devices like this come from Germany and there could even be some fraudulent ones from there. But I am not aware of any.

D Bergy

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feelfit
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Just wanted to say, Don't feel alone.

Me too, taken for a ride me thinks. Same device. The woman did not even want to "clear" me again.

She also offered to come to my home for this test. This seemed awesome to me becuase I don't last long out in public...

She did find things "wrong" that I do have, but also said that lyme was not my problem.

After the fact, I too did some research and the QXCI machine is not even supposed to be used in the States....at least that is what i think I read.

Anyways, I see nothing wrong with addressing this with your holistic doc if done tactfully.

Feelfit

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seekhelp
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Thanks everyone. I'll be tactful, but not so much he doesn't realize I feel scammed. Unless, I'm getting a $200 refund. There's no excuse for a doctor to refer a patient like this. Utter BULL#### and anything otherwise is ridiculous.
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oxygenbabe
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I don't think much of this device, but I don't think you were purposely scammed. Practitioners convince themselves it works. So just chalk this one up to a learning experience, and in the future research more thoroughly...
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seekhelp
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Scammed isn't the right word..misled is better. I put some faith in this doc that he would do something purposeful. This was WAY outside his typical routine.
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Nutmeg
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Hi SeekHelp,

It's just one item from your list (and I have not read all the replies), but what kind of blood tests have you had for potassium?

If you had serum tests, they only show the amount of potassium circulating in the blood stream, so *normal* tests are not too helpful.

Red blood cell tests for minerals show the amount of potassium actually in the cell, available for cell processes.

Perhaps you know that already, and have had meaningful tests for potassium all along, but I just wanted to mention that in case you might actually have a deficiency in the red blood cell levels that might be correctable.

Wishing you the best,
Nutmeg

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luvs2ride
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Seekhelp,
I'm really sorry you had this bad experience.

I was so toxic when I first came down sick with migratory joint pains that any attempt to kill the bacteria was killing me.

I was fortunate to land with caring alternative doctors who did not run me through a bunch of alternative type tests.

They stuck with standard tests that were covered by insurance although most of their treatments are not.

Right away, I was started on IVs of glutathione to detoxify me and lipostabil to thin the fibrin in my blood as well as identifying food allergies, getting on a diet healthy for me, and supplementing areas where bloodwork showed I was weak like Vit D and DHEA.

Detoxifying me saved my life and gave me back my life. Of course, I test positive for a number of bad bacteria that has to be addressed and the doctors are addressing it.

But I detox poorly. So killing bacteria and releasing all the die-off toxins into my body without MAJOR detoxification would spell disaster for me.

Mainstream doctors are not trained in detox and would have no idea why I was not responding well to their medicine.

Their medicine even poisons me.

Slow and steady is what has saved me.

I will only work with doctors who do not let their medical degrees get in the way of my healing.

Don't give up on alternative care. We absolutely need it, but find a doctor you can trust and then trust them.

--------------------
When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace.

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luvs2ride
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BTW,

I personally would not waste my time treating anything I don't test positive for.

When you heal through natural medicine, it is broad range anyway, unlike antibiotics that are specific to just one single pathogen.

So, if every single test under the sun keeps saying you don't have lyme, then stop focusing in on lyme. There are other equally horrible pathogens out here.

What many don't want to acknowledge is how toxic and deadly much of our food is today. All the chemicals that are added for taste and preservation are horrific and our bodies are not designed to cope with them. In no way, are these additives nuturing. But they are incredibly deadly.

We pile these toxins into our systems day after day after week after month after year. People who detox extremely well get away with it longer than people who do not.

I assure you that everyone of us on this board do not detoxify well.

So, while trying to get well, eliminate all toxic food from your diet. It will take years for your body to detoxify all that you have in you right now. So, stop adding to the load and start taking steps to detoxify.

Foods that heal are detoxifying in their nature.
Cruciferous vegetables increase your glutathione. Glutathione is a major detoxifying enzyme found in every cell of our body and heavily concentrated in our liver and our lungs.

Think how important glutathione is to us if we have it in every cell. Garlic, onion, Vit C, Vit D3 all are detoxifying agents. Also called anti-inflammatory.

Toxins such as toxic food inflames our bodies. Excitotoxins like MSG inflame our brains.

If you don't learn how to avoid things such as foods that are weakening and poisoning your body, then all the antibiotics in the world will not save you. Even the antibiotics themselves have toxic components to them.

Food alone will supply many of the nutrients you need. The reason for supplementation is to provide a balanced intake each day and to counter the nutrient drain we are experiencing because the bugs in us are robbing us of our nutrition. If you can consistently eat a supremely nutritious and balanced diet, then you will not need as much supplementation.

This approach takes awhile to see the results. Although for me, a diet change only took two weeks to see significant improvement in my swelling and pain.

No mainstream doctor is going to even understand this. They receive exceedingly poor training in nutritional healing in medical school.

That is why I look for and work with medical doctors who have expanded their training into alternative care.

I'm not looking for the latest cure machine. I'm looking for doctors who understand how to heal my body and I am willing to do my part.

I have even had mainstream doctors tell me how frustrated they are with their patients, because the patients don't want to hear that they have to eat right. They just want pills.

Pills are not going to heal us. They are a quick fix for acute illness and they are helpful in certain situations. But ultimately, we need to take better care of our bodies.

If I would have done this before I got sick, I do not beleive the bacterias would ever have taken hold of my body. I can't go back and change history, but I can certainly control my present and my future where food is concerned.

--------------------
When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace.

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seekhelp
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Nutmeg,

Yep, was tested for serum potassium a month ago and normal. [Smile] Thanks for the advice though.

Luvs, yes, I agree with what you're saying wholeheartedly. I kept thinking this holistic doctor was going to be that type of person you are describing. I could send you links to his publications and you'd probably believe so too.

He started out doing all tests covered by insurance and is pretty scientific. I don't know what on earth led him to recommend this Quantum machine? Frustration in his inability to easily diagnose me? In my opinion, his downfall is he's in such a rush, he won't actually read nor listen to what I'm saying.

I keep telling him stuff and he's not paying attention. It seems like he's in such a hurry to get out and go to the next patient. I HATE THAT. I fax him all my medical test results from other docs diligently thinking he cares, but I now think I'm just an idiot wasting time. Anyone else ever feel like that? [Frown]

The only way to get help is when we're not just a $ sign to a physician. I guess someone needs to help pay that BMW car lease.


quote:
Originally posted by Nutmeg:
Hi SeekHelp,

It's just one item from your list (and I have not read all the replies), but what kind of blood tests have you had for potassium?

If you had serum tests, they only show the amount of potassium circulating in the blood stream, so *normal* tests are not too helpful.

Red blood cell tests for minerals show the amount of potassium actually in the cell, available for cell processes.

Perhaps you know that already, and have had meaningful tests for potassium all along, but I just wanted to mention that in case you might actually have a deficiency in the red blood cell levels that might be correctable.

Wishing you the best,
Nutmeg


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luvs2ride
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Good luck and my prayers are with you Seek. How frustrating to be so sick and not be able to get a diagnosis of anything.

Work on the diet and healing in ways you can do right at home and of course, don't give up on trying to get an answer as to what is wrong with you.

Perhaps if you get some of the toxic load out of your system then some of the bacterias will pop up and be identified.

I certainly hope so!

Luvs

--------------------
When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace.

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Nutmeg
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Hi Seekhelp,

Oh, sorry, I see now that my post was not very clear.

A serum potassium test is worthless for assessing how much potassium your cells have to work with and whether or not you are deficient. So a *normal* result by serum test doesn't prove anything meaningful.

The test that shows whether or not the body has adequate amounts of potassium is the red blood cell test for minerals.

You could have normal serum potassium levels and still be deficient in the cells, where it counts. Red blood test would show this for sure.

Or you could supplement with potassium or increase your consumption of potassium-rich foods (raisins, bananas, etc.) and see if it makes any difference in weakness, fatigue, etc.

There is Rx potassium, too, which is probably better for correcting a deficiency, rather than just maintaining.

Hope this helps,
Nutmeg

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seekhelp
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Nutmeg, the exact name of the test was potassium - heparin plasma. is this RBC potassium?

By the way, you may find this thread interesting. It goes into a lot of detail, but the bottom line is most posters concur serum K levels are consistent with intracellular levels of K.

http://yarchive.net/med/potassium.html

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massman
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I was tested and treated with the same machine mentioned above after I had a stroke 7.5 years ago.

The stroke interfered with brain function. I could not read for a while and I am and was a compulsive reader.

Anyway, I felt much more clear in my thinking for about 7 to 10 days after each treatment. So my experience was good.

We are all different chemically and energetically so we may all respond different to the same intervention.

Perhaps the doc was getting frustrated and looking for new and different ways to assess your problems.

To assume it is just a money raising scam does not seem to be a great way to look at it. If he kept looking at you in traditional ways and you were not making progress, does it make sense to look at the problem in a different way ?

It is sort of like homeopathics. Some respond well to them, some others respond poorly. I typically do not respond well to them but that is me, not everybody else.

At least the doc is trying to find something that may work for you. Should he have just kept trying the same thing he was doing before ?

Many people seem to try alt last and expect instant miracles and get angry when that does not occur. Does not make much sense to me.

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seekhelp
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Massman, it's great it helped you. I'm glad to hear that. I agree docs may get frustrated and resort to other means. I guess I'd prefer honesty and to hear I'm sorry I just don't know than to recommend I spend $200 on a machine that has little proven benefit and much bad publicity.

The evidence is not there and even rife users/engineers tore it apart and say it's a useless contraption. My funds are too limited not working to be a guinea pig that my docs will hope reacts well through a placebo affect.

Good intentions or not...it is still bad medicine. The price is WAY too high given the situation. I expect SO much more from a medical professional with extensive schooling and clinical experience.

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Blackstone
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Don't have time to write one of my usual long comments...

but this kind of this is the exact reason I have the skepticism I do. Personally, if these "miracle machines" and new theories are really so revolutionary, then they should be treated like experimental procedures in the rest of the medical world - given to patients free of charge as part of controlled studies, as a way of proving their effectiveness. Then the viable ones can join the rest of the medical community (see: acupuncture. What was once though of as ancient Chinese wizardry without any merit is now covered by insurance!), and the snake oil salesmen and fortune tellers will be unable to prey on those who are desperate for a cure.

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