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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Where is JAMES? He was on the right track.. he deserved much more credit and respect

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Author Topic: Where is JAMES? He was on the right track.. he deserved much more credit and respect
DebAz
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Hello

I think that the people who gave James such a hard time should think again. Upon more research and reading all the most current data.. he was closer to what is the newest and most up coming discoveries of bugs as well as took the time to try to find treatment that might work ..

It was for himself but he posted it for all of us to benefit.

I fear all the negative reactions and the personal attacks and belittling has now made him not be around.

This really has been discouraging and I am pretty new here but as well have not been treated the best way and not for any reason except for difference in opinion on treatment and illness issues. ?

This makes no sense.

What is wrong with us today.

And we all want world peace.. Right??

I think that many if not near all would Say yes.

Peace is spread from the person next to you to your neighborhood to further out and onward.....

PEACE and JOY is HEALTH and HAPPINESS.

GOD BLESS
D

[ 19. December 2008, 11:47 PM: Message edited by: DebAz ]

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Fordace
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I pm'd him about a week ago with no response....
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lymielauren28
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I agree that we should all be more tolerant. This is a tough disease and we all have to find our own way, and no one deserves to be belittled and criticized because there way is different from yours.

As far as where he is, I've seen him on Lyme chat a few times this week but that's about it...

Lauren

--------------------
"The only way out is through"

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seekhelp
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I can't blame him. He was just relentlessly attcked most times he posted.
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Hoosiers51
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Yeah, I think some of the things people said to James were horrible. I think we should treat each other with more respect, even if you don't agree with someone. I have spoken with James on lymechat and he is a great and clever person.
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groovy2
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Hi All

I agree -James did not deserve all of the hassle he
got from some people --Jay--

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DebAz
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Thanks for saying supportive things and also the opinion of treating each other well even if we do not agree.
i hope he comes back sometime and i have always been interested in what he has to say and have learned from him.

But I also do not blame him and have though of leaving myself.

D

Just was thinking of him myself and how it is too bad that such things happen when we are all here for the same reason to learn and to get support as suffering people.

We all have the same things we want and that we care about.

Eachother should be high on the list

THANK You everyone..
Much appreciated

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Keebler
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-

There is not one person here who does not wish James well. There is a difference in challenging a method or an ingredient and in disregarding a person.

In all the concerns raised about using ingredients from Frontline Plus collars, it was always the ingredient - or the method - that was challenged. Words (or research links) from anyone with concerns were never a personal affront but focused solely on the ingredient and methods.


I did not interpret any criticism of the project to be personal. Such posts were always - always - about safety as related to the project(s). I am sure I speak for everyone in wishing James well.


-

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lymie_in_md
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I agree with Keebler and my prayers are with James and all of us to get well. I think James was doing us all such a service. He was opening doors and thoughts about this disease beyond the norm.

James, hope we hear from you soon. [Big Grin]

--------------------
Bob

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Hoosiers51
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Keebler,

I am sure you kept your comments directed towards the treatment, but unfortunately there were some people who used their posts to make personal, sarcastic jabs at James, or who used sarcasm in a cruel and demeaning manner. The sarcastic comments were certainly not constructive to anyone.

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Marnie
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He is a good guy willing to stick his neck out (experimenting on himself) in order to not only help himself, but to share whatever he learns in the hopes it will help others...you all.

Brave soul. Kind and courageous and I, for one, learned a LOT from him and his "experiments".

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charlie
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People on the Europe forum seemed to take great issue with James throwing stuff at the wall to see if something sticks.

I don't and have also experimented on myself. He might hit on something and have somebody who can actually conduct clinical trials take notice.

the same folks seem to want everything to be 'approved' I suppose by some bureaucrat dweeb?? Like they know anything??

If they had their way I guess we'd just take our doxy and wait for studies that never come.

I'd be dead by now.

Charlie

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djf2005
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james is fine, his methods, not so much.

the point of breaking down his experiments was for newbies to be able to see clearly how some were dangerous and should not be followed without careful thought and consideration.

i am sure james is fine, has not and will continue not to care what others say about his experiments, and may prove in the end to have found an astonishing discovery!

--------------------
"Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."

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abigail
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I have personally talked to you James through PMs and well, he really doesn't listen very well. I hate to say it because it might hurt his feelings, but he might really be out there. Sure seemed so during our converstation. No offense. Just another Lymie... He did help me immensely though as I couldn't get my hands on any antibiotics until James helped me, so he is okay in my book although a little bit out there...but aren't we all?

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Dying is easy. Living is harder.

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seekhelp
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Listening isn't always an attribute of brilliant people. For example, the director of Clongen Labs never bothered to acknowledge every question asked in an e-mail. It was like he'd see 30%-50% of the questions and blank the others.

In his last e-mail, he seemed a bit upset about my repeated e-mails and didn't realize the issue was he neglected to answer specific issues either asked or did not follow through on written commitments. At the end, it is fine and he's extremely prompt.

I'm not complaining, just illustrating an example that you can't always judge a book by its cover. Of course, being brilliant AND an excellent listener is the best of both worlds.

I was pretty good at my job, and I often struggled to listen to others at times because my mind was ten steps ahead. It's something we all need to realize and correct.

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glm1111
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James is an out of the box thinker. We need people like that. Even if he is a little "out there"

I don't think any of us can say we have it all together.

The problem I have with the "Monitors" of any protocol, is they may be misinformed when they think they are right.

Why do these people think they have to be in charge of being the "Watchdogs" of any protocol?

They think they have to save the newbies or anyone else they perceive as just not being as intelligent or informed as they are.


It is really condesending. I'll bet if the scientific community came up with a noxious substance(such as those found in chemotherapy) as a "cure" for Lyme disease,

many people including the "Monitors" would jump on it.


I am very conservative when I approach any protocol whether allopathic or holistic. Please lets give people the benefit of the doubt when it comes to making intelligent decisions.

We are all trying to heal. If I listened to half the people in my life that thought I was going in the wrong direction I'd be dead.

Really and truly I wish we all could just wake up and be well, Gael

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PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW
RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS*

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blaze
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Maybe he hooked up with tailz? They certainly have enough in common being they were both outside-box thinkers and treated poorly here by some for being so.
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SoSublyme
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I would like to thank the "Watchdogs" and "Monitors" whose well-informed posts regarding questionable protocols helped me to learn when I was a newbie.

I did not then, nor do I now find them to be "condescending". I think they are compassionate people who care about others and are looking out for all of us.

Please keep up the good work! I for one appreciate dissenting voices...it's how we can see the complete picture.

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djf2005
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thanks sublyme, thus is the point of my "terrible" and "condescending" dissertations.

i am not concerned with james as he knows what he is doing has its risks and is dangerous.

i am however concerned for people who dont know any better.

as a newbie, you come onto LN brain fogged, desperate and vulnerable to almost any idea posted here.

without someone to say "hey, this doesnt make sense and beyond that, its dangerous" than what do you all think newbies would think?

come on people. add some common sense to your am coffee and than form a new opinion about the necessary policing of LN.

granted, the verbage and formation of some of the things ive said and others have not been the kindest, but when you keep beating the dead horse and it somehow keeps repeating the same things, it becomes frustrating.

keep on researching and pursuing health.

derek

--------------------
"Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."

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D Bergy
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I am sure James is doing as well as most here.

I think it is good to warn people that brand new experimental treatments are not something to jump into. It is why I avoided this and the Salt-C treatments when that came out. If the treatment was for myself I may have done things differently.

I am not particularly risk averse myself, as long as I have some way of estimating the risk involved.

Keebler has always been respectful with his warnings and does do us a service by reminding us that these methods are not for the risk averse, and they could cause harm.

But there really does need to be experimentation by actual people with the disease. That does not mean everyone should do this, but those who are willing to take the risk should not be discouraged out of hand by those who do not wish to. Of course if someone knows something about the proposed treatment that is dangerous that is not generally known, it should be brought up.

A warning or ideas based on some knowlege is always welcome. The more brains looking at something the better.

Breakthroughs almost never come by committee. You will usually find an individual behind them and quite often not from the profession you would think.

I hope one of these days a real effective and relatively safe cure is found. I just hope if it is found, the person shares it with us.

Have a good holiday season everyone. And thank you for all of your input on the forum.

Here is to a better year ahead.

D Bergy

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efsd25
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This site has a way of driving independent minds away under the guise of helping or protecting others. But I think all, new or not, can make our own decisions.

We almost lost Gigi and Marnie plus many others have lost track of. James was one of the few that could evaluate strategies with this bloodwork and his scope.

How many folks here can do that?

Lauricidin was one of his "confirmations" of supplements that just shut down spirochete activity.

We need ideas and folks brave enough to try them, not regulation. Regulation can come after we have a solution!

If you don't like what someone is saying...don't read it :-)

Just my opinion, Ernie

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DebAz
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It is sure nice to hear these opinions and well I am pretty new here but james caught my eye and attention quite quckly.

i saw how he got treated on some of the threads and it was concerning and even sad to me.

Then upon my own experience since being here I too have almost left a few times and still am thinking about it.

Sad but true and the concept of certain people trying to protect newbies and such is not something I buy at all as the reason why they have to treat others how they do....

Because .....it is not that fact that they are opposing or warning against something.....> it is how they treat the person while they are doing it.!!!

It seems no matter how many times I say it is not what your saying but HOW your saying it.. That is ignored over and over and over again...

i have had this happening to me.. and I am not sure if I want to stick around either..

I am sick too..

It is hard each day..

yes ..we should not let people affect us that way

we should stay strong.

But in this case. i have a choice if I want to be here or not.

With this illness i feel I have little control over health..
So I recognize what I do have control over.
Its my choice to stay or go..

I am sure you can relate as we all are in this boat of battling our health issues and not having all the answers and feeling like it is so hard to get any..

So lets just all support one another.> No matter what.

kind words and support go a long way.

You can still say.. lets agree to disagree.

Love and Compassion are huge building blocks to health.

Thank you all for your kind words and well thought out and written posts on this subject.

D

I feel its important to let people know.!!

HOW you say something makes a HUGE difference in how you make someone feel and that is a big big deal when people are sick and suffering.

Not one person has said that people should not post opinions or ideas for or against something. Or even concerns.

BUt be careful as to how you treat the person.. That is what I am saying..

For the ones how have trouble with this.. it seems like this does not even get through at all and thats too bad.

I hope that somehow and somewhere makes a change for us all.

[ 21. December 2008, 09:07 PM: Message edited by: DebAz ]

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SoSublyme
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Hi Deb,

I'm sorry that you "don't buy it that some people want to protect the newbies". Well, I certainly do...and it has nothing to do any perceived lack of intelligence or inability to think for themselves.

It is just SO MUCH INFORMATION when you are just starting out and so much to take in. It's nice that there are people here looking out for them...again, I certainly appreciate how they helped me decipher things.

As far as James, I wish him well. But I've said this before---I WILL NOT ENCOURAGE SOMEONE TO EXPERIMENT WITH POTENTIALLY HARMFUL TREATMENT SO THAT I MAY POSSIBLY BENEFIT. I don't want to get well because someone else ruined their health or died to help me get there.

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DebAz
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There is not one person on here who knows what is best or what works or does not work for the rest of us.

There is not one person who knows what is dangerous or not dangerous to everyone.

We can only educate and be educated and draw conclusions for ourselves. WE can share that info and our opinion.

But we can not make statements about what is or is not true for others or what is or is not true for something that has not been proven in a scientific manner for everyone to review.

If there is no basis it is opinion and we all are entitled to our opinion but it should be stated as such.. and not as fact.

Has anyone shown anyone here what the dangers are for long term abx therapy??

My doctor has told me to take it at my own risk and that there has been NO research on the long term affects of taking them.

That I know.. And I choose to take the risk.

Thats my right.. And its your right.

I have no right to put you down or tell you i can not support you if you do so.

I can share information or documentation to help maybe show you why I might feel one way or another. But I would never ever put you down as a human being who is making a choice for his or her own health.

i respect everyones ability and freedom to choose what you want to choose for yourself.

After that we are here helping each other while we are on that path we choose in any way we can.

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SoSublyme
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Hi Deb,

I don't think I was able to get my point across to you...sorry, sometimes I don't understand what I am saying myself.

I don't agree with your views, but I wish you well.

Take care.

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DebAz
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Hi..

I am sorry you feel i did not understand or that you were not able to get your point to me...

I as well wish you well and I appreciate your honesty.

I hope you have and will find the best path to health for you.

We all have more in common than not ... is my opinion.

God Bless.
Take care

D

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glm1111
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Amen Deb, Amen,

I am an R.N and have studied both allopathic and alternative modalities for years. There are other medical professionals on here as well.

I have yet to see any of them post these "dire" warnings.


If I see someone post something that I don't particularly agree with, it doesn't mean that I have to "WARN THEM" because "I" think it might be dangerous.

I always give the benefit of the doubt that I am not seeing the whole picture.


CHEMOTHERAPY is very toxic to the individual and on the other hand it could save their life.

Mustard gas derivatives are used in some chemotherapy tx as well as other toxic agents.


I personaly wouldn't choose that for myself, but maybe someone else would.


For whatever reason it could put the person in remission. The point is someone could be warning a newbie of what they perceive as dangerous and it could be a potential cure.


The salt/c protocol is a very good example of this. It has saved my life. Opinions are fine. Like Deb said, it's not what you are saying, it's HOW you are saying it.

Let's all move into healing,


Gael

--------------------
PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW
RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS*

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Keebler
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-


Rubbing toxic chemicals from flea collars on one's skin is not good science - no matter how nice a person one might be. This chemical is poisoning fish, in labs tests it has killed mice and rats. It is not intended for human absorption.


Thinking outside the box can be good only if it is within boundaries of safety. Safety must come first.


Garlic would be a far safer alternative and has benefited many for thousands of years.


-

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DebAz
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Keebler.

i would wonder why ... and james said this... that they approved that chemical for use on animals in the home and for it to be known to be pet by children of all ages and maybe rubbed or put in their mouths after petting this dog.
he stated there were very extensive tests on how it was so safe for being around and on adults and it was proven to be safe for even small children but still does work like it needs to on the animals.

That sounds like it is pretty well tested as it would need to be to be around a home with pets who will be pet by all ages of children and adults.

I can see why it can not be on the market and be put on animals as a chemical if it was not fully approved to be safe ..

Thats quite a lot of info. really.

So well>> I read that and just thought I would repeat it

Take care
D

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KS
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We have consumed too much time on James. His experiments are literally worthless....we don't know what microorganisms or non-viable debris he is looking at under the scope nevermind the drugs/concentrations he is evaluating. There is a difference between thinking outside the box versus being in outer space with no controls.

Common sense here...if it were so easy to see borrelia or other bacteria so routinely under the scope, there wouldn't be any controversy regarding lyme testing, treatment, etc.

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KS
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Seekhelp....I'm not sure whether the graphics are funny or disturbing. Also not sure who they are intended for but nonetheless, I'm assuming you are a little frustrated with all of this?! Regardless of the 'side' you are on, I share your frustration and I think this illustrates perfectly why James' posts are counter-productive. We all are sharing experiences with a horrible disease(s) and need to stay united to be able to offer each other support, experiences and research that has some merit to it!!
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seekhelp
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I was just trying to be humorous and pictorally show how his ideas on Lymenet are squashed.

Truth is I'm really on both sides. I hate to see James ridiculed as I'm sure he's suffering like all of us and doing his best with whatever resources he has at his disposal. We may agree or disagree with some aspects, but I can't say what he sees isn't there. I certainly know there isn't any doctors I've seen over the years who give two ##### about looking for treatment protocols/cures for my illness.

I've NEVER had a doc/pathologist even try to look at my blood under a scope since I've gotten ill. How do I know what's there? It's not a standard process used by medicine it seems.

I'm not against those who try to weigh out cons too of his proposed treatments wuch as Keebler, DJF2005, etc.. I think both sides are needed and am happy to read rebuttals with solid facts included.

I just feel James has been personally assaulted at times and it's not needed. Calling him crazy, out there, blind, etc. is a personal assault and rude bottom line. Saying his research/ideas need more substantiation is polite and I'm fine with that.

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seekhelp
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I never saw it.
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DebAz
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Me Either.> never saw it

And honestly. Maybe he got pushed to a limit.

I agree with Seek and it is one thing to say you do not agree or want to point out the cons and why you think he is in the wrong and such.

But the name calling and the personal attacks are not right.

That is the whole point.

And sadly the group of people who swing way to one end are the ones who seem to do this to him and others.

And gosh.> i mean I never knew that there would be a judge and jury here if I posted ideas that were not mainstream.

I am doing the Salt C protocol. And I feel I have been treated in a way to defend myself and the idea when in fact..

Its easy to say "i do not agree" " i think your might be taking a risk because ......." "here are some articles to read that might help you make a different decision" "I have not had a good experience with this because here is what happened to me. ..." and such..

But that has not been the case and I have been treated poorly and some others have been called names and talked down to as if they are not even of the same "quality" of a person if they do not agree with the opposing view..

Some were taken down now... and that is good.. ... thank goodness.. But it is not called for to be ridiculed and put down and demeaned and laughed at and demeaned and so on and so forth... on the basis of pure disagreement.

Just say you disagree and why..

leave out the rest ..

And that is what happened to James..

I wish he was here... and was not chased away.

The more people that get chased away the less value you have on the site. I have not once felt like I have read some peoples views when I disagree with someone actions or protocols.

Even if I think something about what someone is doing.. I do not say anything to them that would demean them..
I just give them what I know and experience and then hope it was new to them and maybe it would help them.

Thats it.. Its easy.

But why is it not so easy for some.? I guess that is life and that is how some people are.

But I felt the need to speak up for those who have been treated in a personal way as less than........ less than..... for only choosing something different than others..

That is wrong to do to any human being.

GOD Bless
HEALTH and HAPPINESS to ALL>

Positivity brings movement in a positive direction for you and those around you.

I just wanted to say.. i have a son who has recently seen how just bringing one smile to someone a day brightens his life and as well when he gets a complement or a nice gesture it makes his whole day and he smiles all day long.

it only takes one small gesture and supportive smile or a kind word to lighten up someones day and week and life.

Spread THE kindness and SPread the HEALING

THINKING OF ALL OF YOU And HOPING YOU HAVE A
Very Happy and Healthy Holiday and that your work towards
better days no matter where you are now in your healing.

We are all here for each other.

WE all know what it is like to feel sick and be ill. Lets keep that in the for front and know no therapy is better than love.

D

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Tracy9
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We probably shouldn't judge what James said if we didn't see it.

--------------------
NO PM; CONTACT: [email protected]

13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG.

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charlie
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I'd like to see it also...i've seen posts called 'racist' before that had nothing whatever to do with race except one person or another didn't want the particular subject discussed.

Charlie

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Keebler
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-

seekhelp,

I am concerned that the graphics on the previous page of this thread could also be interpreted at hate-speech. It is actually quite violent. Is this what people are wanting to do to others here?


Remember that 13 years olds come here. Your grandmother could come here. Seeing a machine gun in action, a Guillotine, someone's head get stuffed into a microwave - all hateful and hostile messages.


Please consider deleting that post with all the images. We get the message. No one coming along deserves to be greeted with such messages, such intent. Images of murder are always very serious.


-

Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
GraceT
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I've been reading the entire Post and I loved the Purple Space Face - TOOOO FUNNY!!

There's humor in my belly now instead of a bellyache.

[group hug] Grace

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GraceT
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Hi Keebler - Just a quicky - I mustta hit the go button a second or so after you did. My remark has not-a-thing to do with yours above. Smiles, Grace
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DebAz
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Sorry

I do not feel that the negative remarks I have witnessed are
perceived ... but they are real and troublesome ...

and that is why I brought it up and have asked for people to please be more careful in some of what they end up saying and how they say it that can be hurtful towards others...

and can progess a simple disagreement to a protocol to place none of us really want to be or discussion that became personal instead of about the topic..

I have seen name calling and downright sarcastic remarks references towards intelligence and flat out meanness and putting down of other people.....

instead of the subject.

Still trying to say the same thing.

Its how you say it..

Not so much what you want to say or get accross

I hope this thread has helped some to be able to think of others in a more human way..It is proven that people are much more apt to be cruel and blunt and say hurtful things in a internet type forum as opposed to face to face.

So when we are communicating.. we should remember to talk as if we were face to face.

Just something to keep in mind.

Take care .ALL.

Hope this finds all in good spirits and feeling well.

I truely do..

D

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abigail
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All I know is I would have to ask him the same question about 10 times before he would answer me as he was too busy rambling.

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Dying is easy. Living is harder.

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seekhelp
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Removed Keebler. I did not mean anything hateful at all. I'm sorry if it came across the wrong way.

quote:
Originally posted by Keebler:
-

seekhelp,

I am concerned that the graphics on the previous page of this thread could also be interpreted at hate-speech. It is actually quite violent. Is this what people are wanting to do to others here?


Remember that 13 years olds come here. Your grandmother could come here. Seeing a machine gun in action, a Guillotine, someone's head get stuffed into a microwave - all hateful and hostile messages.


Please consider deleting that post with all the images. We get the message. No one coming along deserves to be greeted with such messages, such intent. Images of murder are always very serious.


-


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treepatrol
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Hey James if your watching slash still alive check this out.

http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/f?./temp/~ppxdif:1

--------------------
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.

Newbie Links

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lymielauren28
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Disgreement is a fine thing - when in it's done in a thoughtful manner...

Lauren

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"The only way out is through"

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DebAz
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quote:
In the spirit of the holiday season, make a resolution to keep an open mind when posting here, to be kind in your questions and disagreements, and in turn be kind in responding to someone who disagrees.
Nice

THank you

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bettyg
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and NO NAME CALLING!

it can be done correctly and without insults... good suggestions above. [Wink]

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paulito11
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quote:
Originally posted by Keebler:
-

seekhelp,

I am concerned that the graphics on the previous page of this thread could also be interpreted at hate-speech. It is actually quite violent. Is this what people are wanting to do to others here?
...
Images of murder are always very serious.

-

I wonder Keebler if you have ever taken a look at the image of macrophage "murdering" the cell infected by bacteria (i.e. Borrelia:-)???
It looks not nice at all! It is rather bloody StarWars Death Planet on search and destroy mission...

And yet, we all want them to that, don't we?

We (or at least our immune systems) are precise killing machines, taking thousands lives a minute if not more. It does not help if you are a vegetarian either:-)

The problem with Life and Health starts when this killing machine goes awry - stops killing for whatever reason and/or misinterpret the enemy. Then we become sick and die...

So, killing in that context, seems necessary part of Life. I am not sure if there is any point of hiding it from children or elders...

So please loosen your fundamental approach a bit and allow yourself to broaden perspective, then and only then think of James and others taking the courage to go beyond known...

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seekhelp
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Well, I presume James isn't going to post anymore if he hasn't yet on this thread. He's probably getting a kick out of luriking on LN reading them. Maybe it is time to move on. We all did get our thought across on the subject.

The disappearance act ls sort of unusual.

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Keebler
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-

paulito11,

For clarification, The images of murder were animated but, still, all three images with action and the color of blood to depict people killing people - with a machine gun, a guillotine and an oven. The artist's intentioned seemed clear. (Graciously, though, they have since been deleted.)


That was not at all about microbes gone bad and nothing to do with suggesting a safe and thorough approach to research - with a deep knowledge of what ILADS researchers have written as a knowledge base before proceeding.


-

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