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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Looking for Dr. Zang experiences

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Author Topic: Looking for Dr. Zang experiences
Chronic Triathlete
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I've been seeing an TCM herbalist who seems pretty competent, but she shuns Buhner and the other popular herbal protocols for lyme. She's crafted a couple of tinctures for me (which actually use a lot of the same herbs as Buhner) and I get a herx, but I'm wondering if she's the right person to continue with. Sometimes I feel that her custom approach is a good thing, but others times I feel she's just a hippy goofball.

What can people say about Dr. Zang's protocol? I here it's a tad expensive, but what about the results? I searched this site, but only found sporadic mention and few personal accounts. Anyone care to share their experiences? PM me if you like.

Thanks!
/CT

--------------------
10.24.07 Sick
03.31.08 Diagnosed IGeneX WB with Bb
04.08.09 Fry Bart

Updated 02.06.10 On an ABX break since July 09, gluten-free, lots of exercise.

My blog: http://www.chronictriathlete.com/wordpress

Posts: 199 | From Brooklyn, NY | Registered: Apr 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jeanne17
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Well I was on Zhangs protocol for a good year to 18 months.
I was on his allicin/artemisin protocol with some other things, and my mum swears she saw an improvement, however, I can't remember because it was awhile ago.
I do remember that I reeked like garlic for the whole period I was on the stuff [Mad] Drove me and everyone around me crazy!
And it is very expensive. I would say you have to purchase everything every three months or so If I recall right.

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klutzo
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I did the Zhang Protocol for six months. It cost me appx. $504 per month and made me smell so badly, my husband would not come near me.

I used to love garlic, but have not wanted to eat it since, and it's been years.

I saw no improvement or herxing while on it.

The only natural protocol that made me herx was Cowden. Samento made me herx like crazy. BUT, we are all different.

klutzo

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UnexpectedIlls
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I am about to try Zhang's artemesiae... and have thought about going on the full protocol. Everyone is different and responds differently to each treatment. I hope it helps me... and I have heard about the bad garlic smell... but I guess you can take chloropyll drops for it...

Hope it helps you!!

--------------------
"You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end"

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wiserforit2
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I'm on the protocol and the Chlorophyl tablets cut the garlic body smell tremendously. I think my breath gets garlicky from time to time.

I sense that the protocol is knocking down the babs load. then again, I think that all protocols knock something down...just not out!

No regrets,

wiserforit2

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ldfighter
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I don't have personal experience, have heard it works great for some but not everyone. If you're interested there's a book by Dr. Zhang "Lyme Disease and Modern Chinese Medicine" on amazon, explains the protocol and reasoning behind it. (I have zero financial interest, just giving info)
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Keebler
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-

As for your current person shunning Zhang, ask why. I find his research to be absolutely solid all the way around. However, it is always important to ask "WHY?" and then ask how that person came to their conclusion.

Ask for articles - what did they read?

Which researchers has she engaged in conversation?

By asking, we learn. She may be ahead of her game - or behind - but a neutral, non-threatening discussion is essential.


Ask your person if her formulas will permeate the BBB (blood brain barrier). Both Zhang's research on his form of allicin and Buhner's research on andrographis confirm this.


Based upon my research, I don't think you will get enough medicine in tincture form to properly address the infections. you may get a herx reaction, but that does not mean you are getting enough medicine by any means.

That said, there is on tincture that looks interesting - I've not taken this as I've only recently seen it. This is from an excellent company with a solid reputation.

http://www.rain-tree.com/spiro-extract.htm


---

I would want to see ALL the research from your person to back up her approach. Be certain to thoroughly read both Zhang and Buhner, please. Then you will have a better base for questions.


Note, too, that both of them sometimes employ abx. Buhner's book makes note of this. In my private sessions with Zhang, we had discussions and he could advise me personally.


Some herbalist really don't know the spirochete in all its forms and cycles. Be sure that yours does. This must be understood and respected - and specifically addressed. Same with other infections.

If your person is expert in tick-borne infections, great. It would also help if she were ILADS educated, even if taking different approaches. Some NDs are ILADS members.

I'm not saying that either Zhang or Buhner's suggestions are the end-all and be-all but in my experience with many NDs who were very good in their field (but sorely underestimated lyme/TBD), these are the top two researchers. They each have a different approach yet I find studying what they each have to say of immense value.


============


I found Zhang's protocol to be very helpful when I could afford to do this. Seizures were decreased greatly. I had far less vertigo and far less light sensitivity. I felt stronger, too.


I did smell like garlic but sometimes would do the alternate protocol that substitutes coptis - and another formula. I did well on that, too.

For me, that allicin protocol caused tinnitus to increase. For most, this does not happen.

The only reason I stopped was cost. The cost is very reasonable for top quality and I would want to know that from the grower to gatherer - all along the way - everyone was treated fairly . . . but I just could not continue on my budget.


I have since moved on to Buhner's. With the main thing there being andrographis, it is also very good. But VERY sedating. VERY. I don't know if I can continue due to the increased fatigue, but I have little choice.

On the positive side, I have lost lots of water weight with andrographis, though and it (as did allicin) helped decrease severity and frequency of seizures.

It is far more affordable.

--

Consuming chorophyll (sp?) can help decrease garlic smell and, for special days, the alternate protocol can be used.

Remember, that no one has the answer and that each of us may need a different approach. After studying the ILADS and Burrancso's guidelines - and reading the books above - you will have a better basis for your decision. There is a lot of rotation along the way - and if you find something that really helps its great to share that.


===================


This book, by an ILADS member LLMD, holds great information about treatments options and support measures:


http://tinyurl.com/6lq3pb (through Amazon)


THE LYME DISEASE SOLUTION (2008)

- by Kenneth B. Singleton , MD; James A. Duke. Ph.D. (Foreword)

You can read more about it here and see customer reviews.

Web site: www.lymedoctor.com


========


http://tinyurl.com/5vnsjg


Healing Lyme: Natural Healing And Prevention of Lyme Borreliosis And Its Coinfections - by Stephen Harrod Buhner

web site options: www.gaianstudies.org/lyme-updates.htm


================

http://tinyurl.com/5drx94


Lyme Disease and Modern Chinese Medicine - by Dr. QingCai Zhang, MD & Yale Zhang

web site: try www.sinomedresearch.org and use "clinic" and then "clinic" for the passwords or call Hepapro through www.hepapro.com

==============

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

PubMed Search:

Allicin - 295 abstracts

Coptis - 271 abstracts

Sarsaparilla - 132 abstracts (aka: Smilax)

Smilax - 119

--

Andrographis - 226 abstracts

Stephania - 227 abstracts


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Keebler
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-

I just went to your blog. It seems like you are seeing neurologist but not a LLMD (but your abx protocol listed below your post seems to be beyond most neurologists' Rx). Still, (if you need this) for reference:


www.ilads.org

ILADS

The International Lyme and Associated Diseases Society (ILADS) provides a forum for health science professionals to share their wealth of knowledge regarding the management of Lyme and associated diseases.


- 2/3 down the page, you can download Guidelines for the management of Lyme disease


and


http://www.betterhealthguy.com/images/stories/PDF/LYMDXRX2008-October.pdf

Dr. Burrascano'sTreatment Guidelines (2008)


-

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MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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check out the herbal threads in my signature. The Zhang ones are from a wihle ago as ti's not a very well-promoted protocol and therefore isn't as popular as Cowden or Buhner, but there are some experiences in there.

TCM is generally really good at balancing some immune disorders, so if your hippie herbalist is good at reading the 'signs' that TCM bases everything around, that's probably better than a one-size fits- all protocol.

--------------------
Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!

Find me at Lymefriends, I post under the same name.
diet: http://lymefriends.ning.com/group/healthylowcarbrecipes
Homemade Probiotics thread
Herbal Links Thread

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Chronic Triathlete
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Member # 15245

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Thanks everyone for your replies. Very helpful. I think I'll stick it out with the hippy for awhile longer. Zang's sounds smelly and expensive.

BTW... I am seeing a LLMD (Dr. R in NYC). Helpful? Perhaps.

/CT

--------------------
10.24.07 Sick
03.31.08 Diagnosed IGeneX WB with Bb
04.08.09 Fry Bart

Updated 02.06.10 On an ABX break since July 09, gluten-free, lots of exercise.

My blog: http://www.chronictriathlete.com/wordpress

Posts: 199 | From Brooklyn, NY | Registered: Apr 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
CD57
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I haven't done the full Zhang protocol but I did have a 15 minute consult with him (highly recommended, it's free) and he explained that most people come to his protocol after having been on abx and failed. So his protocol is the second stop. He said that he has a very high success rate. I like him very much and thought him genuine.
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