Topic: Why do cholinergic agents make brain for worse?
lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
I just picked up some Shisandra at the local health food store. I have read that it helps support the liver and we all know we need that.
I took one and now I feel my heart racing and my fog is kicking in.
I dont get it? When I looked up why it has stimulating properties it says that its cholinergic meaning that it increases acetylcholine release of mimics it.
When I take DMAE or choline or piracetam (all of which effect choline) my brain fog gets much worse.
This never used to happen.
Why is this?
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
^
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
I don't totally understand this either. When hubby had really bad episodes of tremors I could give him IV phenergan (an anticholinergic) to stop the tremors.
But he could take lecithin or phosphatidylcholine without a problem.
My guess is that at times his brain was agitated by something and the anticholinergic slowed down the nerve impulses.
I do know that mercury can block the receptor sites (for dopamine I think) and I think that is why it can cause tremors. Choline is the gas and dopamine is the brakes for the nerves.
Lecithin and choline also detox the liver so that could be the cause of the brain fog. IV phosphatidylcholine (the P.K. protocol) lowered hubby's GGT to normal.
I would try very low doses of the shisandra or other cholinergic things and see if you adjust over time.
This is not medical advice, just my opinion based on hubby's experiences.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
thanks for trying. I need a team!
In fact why cant the just build an island for all of us and the doctors to figure it all out. What would be wrong with that.
Ill sign.
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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It's real interesting for me for a number of reasons.
1. I developed Cholinergic Urticaria about 10 years, which is activated by exposure to heat, the sun, and exercise. At this time, I couldn't even take anti-histamines to resolve the issue, because they made my hives even worse. I found drinking alcohol reduced them.
2. I have several supplement problems, and unusual medication reactions. I'm trying to implicate this area as the cause.
3.....
I just had an OMG moment.
I was taking a supplement called RegeneMAX which contains Choline in the form Choline-Stabilized Orthosilicic Acid. I couldn't tolerate the supplement, even though it's supposed to be support for hair and skin.
I was having severe difficulty thinking while taking it, and my skin was looking unhealthier.
Dont know what this means yet... Hopefully someone will CHIME IN!
Posts: 829 | From MD | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
I react very poorly to taking lecithin which is primarily choline. I wanted to take it to help bile formation.
But what is very bizarre, is the fact that egg yolk (which contains a ton of choline) makes me feel GREAT. For some reason, my body likes the natural choline but not the pill form. And I'm not allergic to soy, which is the kind of lecithin I have in supplement form. They make lecithin from sunflower in supplement form, but at this point I think I'll ditch the choline supplements and stick with consuming egg yolks regularly.
Posts: 641 | From Nevada | Registered: May 2009
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