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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Questions about CD57 not being a good indicator...

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Author Topic: Questions about CD57 not being a good indicator...
Hoosiers51
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Okay, so my CD57 was 15, which is pretty low I think. Not as low as some, but it's considered "low."

I know some people are saying that CD57 isn't really a good indicator of how a lyme patient is doing.

Does that mean only if it's high, and you still feel sick, it isn't a good indicator, but if it's low, and you feel bad, then it IS meaningful?

Or do the people that think it's not a good indicator think it's never a good indicator?

I ask because I'm trying to figure out if my fatigue is lyme or candida. My PA says I still have lyme because of the CD57=15. She said it indicates Lyme, not co's.

So to the people that say it's not a good indicator, is a low one meaningless too?

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CD57
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There is likely to be lots of input on this topic. Our LLMD mentioned to me that if the CD57 is low, it's Lyme bothering you, not co's. And there are likely to be a lot of people on here who are very sick with high CD57's.

Bottom line: I don't know if there's a good answer for this.

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Hoosiers51
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So if it's high, it might not mean much....

....but could that apply to if it's low, it might not mean much?

Lately I have just been doubting my diagnosis in general. I just feel toxic, so I want to stop my abx. [Frown]

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Wimenin
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Just my opinion on the topic.

From what Ive read, usually the CD57 levels rise as the person feels better. I was told that the CD57 marker is an indication of your killer cells and your bodies immune system ability to fight. Usually its used to track progress on a scientific (documentable) test.

How someone feels is abstract. You always treat the patient, not the test. So if you feel great, it doesnt matter what the test says. Conversely, if you feel horrible and your levels are high, treatment needs to continue...if...it is indeed lyme and not something else, such as yeast.

But the CD57 test is supposed to be another way for the LLMD to have something firm from which to draw upon to determine how the patient is doing.

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mandy614
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Mine was 97 at my sickest. I wasn't treating lyme and babesia yet, but I was supporting immune system with various supps.
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Barby
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quote:
Originally posted by Wimenin:
Just my opinion on the topic.

From what Ive read, usually the CD57 levels rise as the person feels better. I was told that the CD57 marker is an indication of your killer cells and your bodies immune system ability to fight. Usually its used to track progress on a scientific (documentable) test.

Exactly right.

--------------------
I am so sick and tired of being sick and tired!!!

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Lymeorsomething
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Hoosiers, 60 is pretty low so 15 is damn low [Smile] Mine is 40.

I need to recheck it because I'm getting nowhere fast...

--------------------
"Whatever can go wrong will go wrong."

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disturbedme
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I don't know your answer, but my CD57 count is 9...

I haven't had it checked for at least a year or so, and will be having it checked again in May and hope it is UP some!!!!! I will be very sad/scared if it's the same or lower.

--------------------
One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar.
~ Helen Keller

My Lyme Story

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hezzer926
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For me , the test has been a good indicator of how I've been progressing.. when I was first tested back in September, I had a score of 40. Not until recently, have I really been seeing an

improvement and my last score was 56... Now, I do have both babs and bart, and this number was still low initially and has increased showing treatment effectiveness

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'Kete-tracker
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Yup... There's really no Good answer. Everyone's healthy CD-57 count is Different!

Basically, LLMDs use the CHANGE in a patient's CD-57 count, over a period of Months, to guage the effectiveness ("efficacy") of treatment against the bug. If it's going down after 2 months, say, on a particular set of drugs, the protocol is usually switched.
If the count is rising significantly, the protocol is continued, possibly w/ an addition of an adjunct drug.

Still, a 15 IS quite low, Hoosiers. I assume you're on daily Cat's Claw or Samento tincture?
Candida over-growth can make you feel "washed out", but I suspect here that your exhaustion is primarily Lyme.

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TadichGrill
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I had three CD57 tests which all went down instead of up with treatment and lower after the last test and my protocol was not switched.
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Sarah182
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My CD57 was 12 last year and was 12 again on the last test...nothing changed with all different kinds of treatment. I wonder what that means?
Any suggestions?

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Flyinpiker
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First Test 42 (02/2007)


Did 4 months of treatment then took 18 months off.


2nd Test 90 (10/2008)


Have been treating for 5 months (with 6 week break)


Current Test 126 (04/2009)

I've actually been having more symptoms so I don't know what to think, perhaps they are related to herx and I should just stay on course.

I love how just about everything used to diagnose and treat this debatable except for the fact that "we feel like poo".

[ 04-24-2009, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: Flyinpiker ]

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billclo
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My doc was saying that CD-57 numbers can be lower because of inflammation as well - the CD-57 cells are attracted to tissue inflammation and therefore won't show on a blood test.

He is now using the CD-57 test in conjunction iwth a C4A test to judge levels of systemic inflammation levels.

My CD-57 numbers have been all over the place in no discernable pattern.

I've been off treatment since Aug '07 by the way, don't seem to have any Lyme symptoms...

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gemofnj
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bill,

i am just curious what your current cd level is being off abx and no symptoms?

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cantgiveupyet
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Very interesting bill that inflamation may lower the CD57. My C4A and C3A are both very high.

I didnt have my CD57 tested at my sickest...but the first test done in 2006 was a 10

I was off all abx..not well...just took a break....only thing added was armour thyroid. My CD57 was a 42 in 2007. The LLMD told me that was because the lyme didnt like the increase in temps that that regulating my thyroid caused.

2008 it was back down to 24 and i did feel sicker and still do.

--------------------
"Say it straight simple and with a smile."

"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet,
But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."

-Schopenhauer

pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg

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ugagal
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My LLMD did not check my CD57 count. Instead, he checked my CD56 count, which came back very low. What is the difference? Is the CD56 also used as an indicator of Lyme?

--------------------
My comments on this site are not intended to be taken as medical advice as I'm not a physician.

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billclo
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quote:
Originally posted by gemofnj:
bill,

i am just curious what your current cd level is being off abx and no symptoms? [/QB]

I started at 78 while very sick, dove down to 42 during treatment, up to 70 a year after treatment end, now 59. But my C4A results are twice the normal range, so clearly there's some inflammation issues ongoing. Could be latent Lyme, though my "heart" says no. Could be residual Candida in my gut, could be mold exposure from my house. Could be my inflamed shoulder...we simply haven't narrowed the cause down yet.
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JKMMC09
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My daughters CD57 is a 4. Our LLMD has been treating over 25 years, and does not believe CD57 is a good indicator, not matter how ill/ well the patient is.
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Geneal
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Do a search here on CD 57.

This topic has tons on it.

I believe initially that the CD 57 was thought to be a reliable

Measure of illness or ability to fight illness.

Later, many LLMD's moved away from using the test

Due to high CD 57's yet very, very ill patients.

If I remember correctly, if your CD 57 is high

And you are very ill, it is probably a co-infection.

I didn't have mine tested in the beginning.

Only about one year in. Mine was 100.

I was still very, very sick.

My LLMD and I discussed the importance of this test.

I offered info gleaned here in regards to how accurate a measure

This test was supposed to be regarding progress.

I think it has some merit to it. My LLMD does too.

However, as we don't have many objective indicators of progress

Versus regression, versus co-infections, versus viral infections,

I think my LLMD and I agreed to view this number with a grain of salt.

Promising yet not 100% reliable as an objective measure

Of how well or not well I was.

Hugs,

Geneal

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gemofnj
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I thought I would pass this on relating to CD57:

My llmd suggests that CD 57 is an indication of how bad lyme has impacted your immune system. (not that you currently have lyme)

Her philosophy is that if your CD 57 is below normal, you need to take supplements to help recover it to its normal levels or else your immune system will never be able to fight off lyme on its own.

The supplement she gave me was AG Immune by Body Wise to boost it up, but I'm sure there are others that are equally good.

Arabinogalactan and Astragalus Root (chinese i think) along with mushroom are the herbs that are supposedly the most effective for boosting immune. Maybe there are products that are better than this.

If so, I would gladly love to hear what others are using for immune supplements.

[Smile]

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