LymeNet Home LymeNet Home Page LymeNet Flash Discussion LymeNet Support Group Database LymeNet Literature Library LymeNet Legal Resources LymeNet Medical & Scientific Abstract Database LymeNet Newsletter Home Page LymeNet Recommended Books LymeNet Tick Pictures Search The LymeNet Site LymeNet Links LymeNet Frequently Asked Questions About The Lyme Disease Network LymeNet Menu

LymeNet on Facebook

LymeNet on Twitter




The Lyme Disease Network receives a commission from Amazon.com for each purchase originating from this site.

When purchasing from Amazon.com, please
click here first.

Thank you.

LymeNet Flash Discussion
Dedicated to the Bachmann Family

LymeNet needs your help:
LymeNet 2020 fund drive


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations.

LymeNet Flash Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Lyme and malar rash (red "butterfly")?

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: Lyme and malar rash (red "butterfly")?
Wonko
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 18318

Icon 5 posted      Profile for Wonko     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi,

I was wondering if others can share comments/experiences on a rash I have off and on.

I get very red in the face, like intense blushing, and it spans my cheeks and nose. Sometimes my forehead gets red, too.

It looks a lot like the malar or butterfly rash associated with lupus. However, my rash is not scaly, the skin feels normal, it is just discolored.

I had a lot of blood work done in 2008, including ANA, and more specific lupus tests which were negative. I did have a high SED rate in one round, I think that is a very non-specific test.

I woke up with a severe case of this rash today. I pulse my abx, and hadn't taken any since Saturday PM, which added to my alarm (as usually any Herxing I get is within hours of taking my meds).

I see my LLMD early April and will ask about this then, but would appreciate any comments in the meantime.

Thanks.

Posts: 455 | From Was in PA, then MD, now in the Midwest | Registered: Nov 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ugagal
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 18471

Icon 1 posted      Profile for ugagal     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi Wonko,

In addition to the standard Lyme facial flushing, I also get a malar rash every 4 to 6 weeks. Of course my PCP sent me to a Rheumy to be tested for Lupus. The Lupus tests were negative but I did test positive for inflammation on C Reactive Protein and SED rate tests.

According to my LLMD, a malar rash does occur in many Lyme patients and often appears during a flare period when the patient is experiencing a severity in symptoms.

--------------------
My comments on this site are not intended to be taken as medical advice as I'm not a physician.

Posts: 206 | From Georgia | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wonko
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 18318

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Wonko     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks for the quick reply, ugagal.

I also had high CRP. I know inflammation is a big issue for me.

I am having a bad day overall with symptoms, one of my worst in awhile which is probably also contributing to my being upset.

I know this is just my Lyme and co being weird and I just needed a little reassurance.

Thanks, I guess my misery just wanted a little company.

Posts: 455 | From Was in PA, then MD, now in the Midwest | Registered: Nov 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ugagal
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 18471

Icon 1 posted      Profile for ugagal     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I understand completely Wonko! This illness can be a very lonely experience. Thankfully, we have this site to help us through the rough spots on our journey towards health and healing.

I hope you are feeling better soon and don't hesitate to PM me if you just need some support or encouragement [Smile]

--------------------
My comments on this site are not intended to be taken as medical advice as I'm not a physician.

Posts: 206 | From Georgia | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10044

Icon 1 posted      Profile for stymielymie     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
i was told that this malar rash is
common among auto immune diseases .
it is most common in discoid lupus but is also a
side effect of sun with immunodeficient lymies.
it is more common if you ar eon doxy or other
cycline drugs.
it does go away.
if you do not have a definitive dx for lyme
then i would have a ana test for lupus to rule out lupus.
women tend to get lupus 9:1 to men
don't get too much sun anyway since the
effect of vit d induced from sun has not been
determined

docdave

Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
jblral
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 8836

Icon 1 posted      Profile for jblral     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
ANA test doesn't rule out lupus. Early on in my daughter's illness the fact that she had an elevated ANA and a malar rash got the doctor's excited. They ordered a bunch of tests. Once they decided it wasn't lupus, they essentially kicked us to the curb.

Way later, our LLMD told us that elevated ANA and malar rash can be seen in Lyme.

Posts: 991 | From California | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kerryblue
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 4077

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Kerryblue     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi, our immune system being attacked poss. link with Lyme or Lupus.
This was 1 of very 1st symptoms I noticed.
You name it DX, like many of us had it. Soon as had the Butterfly rash.
Yet, my gut said it was something else.
Many of our pts. at clinic also had the rash no Lupus, unless there is the link which I feel all these things as FM/ME/Parkinson`s/RA/ALS/Gulf War/++++ all these diseases with no known cause,
I believe in cause & effect for everything whether tick or mosquito related by now.
To many like connections, NO>1 we all start out with flu like symptoms, that seems not to change even if eases with treatment.
There is info related on this subject,documented.

Posts: 746 | From Clearwater/fl/Pinellas | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
njlymemom
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 15088

Icon 1 posted      Profile for njlymemom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
wanted to share our experience

Lyme and bart were txd. in daughter.
She had this type of rash for years. Tx did not make it worse or better.

Then she started to decline. Txd for Babesia she improved immensely and rash is gone.

Did anyone ever exp. this rash with Babesia too?

--------------------
This is NOT medical advice - and should NOT be used to replace your MD's advice. Info is only the opinion of those who publish the site.


The shortest way to do many things is to do only one thing at a time.

cb

Posts: 669 | From somewherebetweentherocks | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wonko
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 18318

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Wonko     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
njlymemom,

My LLMD told me in a recent phone consult that he thinks Babesia is the main culprit left to treat in me.

He plans on starting me on antimalarials in April.

I didn't have a positive test for babesia, but he thinks I have it based upon my symptoms and response to treatment so far.

I also have a red dot rash in clusters on my arms and legs, and bizarre (long lasting, tiny hard) acne.

Thanks all for the replies.

Posts: 455 | From Was in PA, then MD, now in the Midwest | Registered: Nov 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
njlymemom
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 15088

Icon 1 posted      Profile for njlymemom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Our daughter was also a clinical dx.

Good luck, Wonko

--------------------
This is NOT medical advice - and should NOT be used to replace your MD's advice. Info is only the opinion of those who publish the site.


The shortest way to do many things is to do only one thing at a time.

cb

Posts: 669 | From somewherebetweentherocks | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
duke77
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 5051

Icon 1 posted      Profile for duke77     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Early on in my daughter's illness the fact that she had an elevated ANA and a malar rash got the doctor's excited. They ordered a bunch of tests. Once they decided it wasn't lupus, they essentially kicked us to the curb.

A few years ago my sister-in-law had a malar rash and some other symptoms like arthralgias and went to a famous teaching college. They did an ana test and after a positive ana they didn't kick her to the curb, the gave her a lupus diagnosis. Lupus is difficult to diagnosis there are atleast 8 tests, they didn't do any and told her it was lupus. I talked her into going for Lyme tests and she eventually tested positive.
Posts: 649 | From United States | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
tdtid
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10276

Icon 1 posted      Profile for tdtid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I can certainly relate to this symptom since I was sent MANY times over to be RECHECKED for Lupus when I'd be sent to any other type of specialist.

My ANA always came back negative and the Rheumotologist did not feel it was Lupus even without getting the tests back but all the other doctors would see it and ASSUME lupus.

So knowing what I know now, I definitely feel it is lyme related. Mine has gotten MUCH better since abx treatment, although every now and then it will still flare.

Cathy

--------------------
"To Dream The Impossible Dream" Man of La Mancha

Posts: 2638 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Nutmeg
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 7250

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Nutmeg     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thank you. I had no idea a malar rash was a Lyme symptom.

I've had rosacea and facial flushing for years. My skin is very sensitive, too, to heat, sun, and skin-care products.

I recently started reacting to my moisturizer, so my face was flushing frequently. When I looked in the mirror a few days ago, I noticed a very distinct and symmetrical butterfly pattern.

Hopefully it is related to Lyme and is just a flare-up from treatment. My ANAs have always been negative or a low titer with homogenous pattern.

Thanks for solving a mystery for me.
Nutmeg

Posts: 386 | From WA state | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Mountaineer
Member
Member # 14085

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Mountaineer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm glad someone posted about this.

I've had this red malar type rash for years between nose.

All tests from rheumatologist all negative.

He said twitching is neuro and not associated lupus.

meds from dermotologist make it go away

but seems to come back.

Posts: 64 | From New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
sugarfreak
Member
Member # 19376

Icon 1 posted      Profile for sugarfreak     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I was diagnosed with lupus over 2 years ago due to +ANA and arthralgias and other symptoms. I thought I finally new what was wrong with me.

However, some of the symptoms I had, like twitching and the fact that my arthralgias and myalgias were migrating didn't seem to be explained by lupus. I do have a mild malar rash.

I'm still waiting on my Western Blot but, it appears I actually have lyme at this point.

Posts: 18 | From United States | Registered: Mar 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Need Lots of Help
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 18603

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Need Lots of Help     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
My husband has had this rash the entire 6 years we have been married.

I thought he had lupus at first. Then I found out I had lyme and I knew he had it too.

He has the muscle twitching as well, his upper lip. He started treatment in Jan. 09 and his twitching is so much worse now. He actually said the twitching is painful, by the end of the day his face hurts from twitching so much.

The rash on his nose has not gotten better or worse since treatment.

I do think that lupus is a symptom of lyme, just like chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia are, so it makes sense to me that a mylar rash is indicative of lyme.

But, I am some silly girl who thinks chronic lyme is for real. [Smile]

Shalome

Posts: 893 | From Florida | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10044

Icon 1 posted      Profile for stymielymie     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
the reason there is a conflict is
that for many many years the malar rash was
diagnostic of lupus, so if you had a malar rash
you had lupus.
times have changed and it has been found that alomost all autoimmune diseases cause a malar rash
lyme included.
so the theory of lupus went out the door.
it is still most prevalent in discoid lupus more than any other disease.

almost all symptoms of lyme and co's can be identical to any autoimmune disease.
they all have basic symptoms of fibro,
cfs, cns problems and neuralgia.
lyme is only one disease of many,
and systemic yeast is included in this list that have similar symptoms, and now treatments.
yes many docs now treat many of the auto immune diseases as if it were lyme with iv abx .
as you have read in lymenet and others ,people with ms, als and other incurable diseases are getting better on abx.
why is this so????
because the etiology of many autoimmune diseases
is unknown and if bacterial, abx will help
with many symptoms and sometimes cures.
ALL THESE DISEASES AT ONE TIME WERE TREATED WITH
CORTICOSTEROID, DECREASING THE IMMUNE SYSTEM AND
MAKING PEOPLE WORSE , THAN BETTER.

so people here assume everything is lyme and it is not always lyme. there are many other diseases that mimic lyme, can be treated like lyme, but are not lyme.
one can not assume that everyone that has a
twitch has lyme. this is not the case.

docdave

Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
swedish lyme sufferer
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 14579

Icon 1 posted      Profile for swedish lyme sufferer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I do agree woth you docdave,
I am devastated with twitching linving hell.

From what I have read there are SOOOOO many diseases that can make this symptom. Nt only ALS,

but Toxoplasmosis etc.and LOTS of other infections.

Posts: 347 | From sweden | Registered: Feb 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Need Lots of Help
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 18603

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Need Lots of Help     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well, lyme is all we know about with my husband so far, so we are treating that first.

But, it isn't just a twitch he has, he is obs/comp, degenerative lower back pain (he is 33), asthma, sinus and allergies crud not relieved by any medications, memory issues, anxiety, and the bottom of his feet look raw, along with stomach pains that can not be diagnosed by any doctor. New symptoms are having a headache every day of the week, and he is more fatigued than he ever was.

However, he just got his igenex test in Dec. and recently started treatment. We didn't see our LLMD until March, so I am sure he will go through the co-infections and we will find more.

The man has worked like an ox, and it has just recently gotten him down.

Shalome

Posts: 893 | From Florida | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | LymeNet home page | Privacy Statement

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:

The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey
907 Pebble Creek Court, Pennington, NJ 08534 USA


| Flash Discussion | Support Groups | On-Line Library
Legal Resources | Medical Abstracts | Newsletter | Books
Pictures | Site Search | Links | Help/Questions
About LymeNet | Contact Us

© 1993-2020 The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.
Use of the LymeNet Site is subject to Terms and Conditions.