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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Looks like Salt C theory is the way to go. Breakthrough destroying Bio films Belfast

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Author Topic: Looks like Salt C theory is the way to go. Breakthrough destroying Bio films Belfast
NMN
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This story just featured on the local RTE news here in Ireland.

Scientists in Queens University Belfast just made a break through destroying bio films and killing super bugs such as MRSA.

These hospital required infections are a major problem here and kill many many people.

http://www.qub.ac.uk/home/TheUniversity/GeneralServices/News/PressReleases/Title,141092,en.html

I started the salt C protocol 10 days ago.


Your thoughts?

Neil

--------------------
Pos BB and Bart(Q & H IGG pos)
Began treat 1 year after start of illness. Diagnosed Feb 2007.

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METALLlC BLUE
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That is awesome.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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jl123
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I wonder if this is the step that is required to make salt that much more effective at eradicating lyme- as now for many salt-C still is not enough.
jL

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dmc
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very interesting, thanks for posting
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glm1111
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I'll second that awesome Metallic. Thanks for this excellent info Neil. Great find.

I have been on the salt/c (sea salt)protocol for almost three yrs and it's knocking out these infections.

I have seen colonies of bacteria surrounded by biofilm in the toilet. No, it is not mucous, I know the difference.

The authors of the lymephotos site clearly show the colonies of bacteria surrounded by biofilm. Sea Salt is a natural broad spectrum antibiotic.

Gael

--------------------
PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW
RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS*

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lakes592
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Hi,
Can you do the Salt C while on antibiotics? How do you do it? What products do you use? Is it just salt/c or our other supplements involved?


Thanks,
Ann

--------------------
If you keep doing nothing...nothing changes!

www.underourskin.com

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glm1111
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Hi Ann,

There are people that are on antibiotics that also do the salt/c. You might want to join lymestrategies and get some insight from the people doing the salt/c.

Go back to the beginning of the archives (2004). Gael

--------------------
PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW
RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS*

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jarjar
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Dr. C told me a couple of years ago it was okay to combine and salt and abx.

I am currently taking a low dose of sea salt and water with the MP and getting great die off.

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jt345
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Hi jarjar

Do You think You could fill me in alittle with the sea salt treatment. I am out of touch here.
Thanks in advance for any info.
Be as well as You can be
jt345 (appleseed)

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MariaA
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Guys,

that article does not in the SLIGHTEST bit validate taking sea salt internally.

It's talking about scrubbing medical equipment with a liquid chemical sterilizer that just happens to be classified as a "salt", in chemical terms. It is NOT the same thing sea salt or table salt or anything that you'd drink internally. Many things are called salts. Epsom salts are "salts" but are not in the slightest bit like sea salt or table salt.

Here's an analogy:
-soap is yet another chemical that is classified chemically as a "salt"
-I can get germs off my hands with soap and it kills a few things because it's alkaline
-this doesn't mean soap's ability to kill a few germs makes it an internal medicine
-it also doesn't mean that just because soap is classified as a "salt" that 'table salt' has the same properties as soap

Here's another analogy:
-if I get an ear piercing and it gets slightly infected, I can soak the infected spot with salt water (this is done for ear piercings and body piercings all the time).

-this targets surface germs and does not mean that my eating a equally salty meal and taking salt internally will succeed in getting the salt to the infected spot on the skin.

--------------------
Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!

Find me at Lymefriends, I post under the same name.
diet: http://lymefriends.ning.com/group/healthylowcarbrecipes
Homemade Probiotics thread
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glm1111
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This website explains the salt/c protocol

www.lymephotos.com

Salt is a natural broad spectrum antibiotic and works on a deep cellular level

--------------------
PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW
RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS*

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MariaA
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and causes very serious organ failure at times.

I don't think anyone considers it "a broad spectrum antibiotic". It seems to be a parasite killer, for which we have safer medications. For some Lyme patients, killing parasites may help them make improvements, but not everyone has a parasite problem at the root of their problems.


Do a search here...

--------------------
Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!

Find me at Lymefriends, I post under the same name.
diet: http://lymefriends.ning.com/group/healthylowcarbrecipes
Homemade Probiotics thread
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nomoremuscles
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I've been eating mountains of sea salt daily for years. Around 1-3 teaspons with each meal, two to three times a day. My belly is still filled with bugs. GI is my main problem. No broad spectrum killing going on there.

Maybe the C would be the missing link, but, like most things, I can't tolerate it.

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Brussels
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The article clearly says, this is not common table salt:

"Unlike table salt, however, which has to be heated to over 800oC to become a liquid, the ionic liquid antibiofilm agents remain liquid at the ambient temperatures found in hospitals."

He adds:
"Our goal is to design ionic liquids with the lowest possible toxicity to humans while wiping out colonies of bacteria that cause hospital acquired infections."

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NMN
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"Science and medicine have tried to define the precise roles of salt in the healthy and diseased human organism.

Blood, sweat, and tears all contain salt, and both the skin and the eyes are protected from infectious germs by the anti-bacterial effect of salt.

When salt is added to a liquid, particles with opposite charges are formed: a positively charged sodium ion and a negatively charged chloride ion.

This is the basis of osmosis which regulates fluid pressure within living cells and protects the body against excessive water loss (as in diarrhoea or on heavy sweating)."

This Ionic activity comes up time and time again in literature about the benefits of Sea salt in the body.

If it desolves bio films on surfaces through this process then why not inside the body?

--------------------
Pos BB and Bart(Q & H IGG pos)
Began treat 1 year after start of illness. Diagnosed Feb 2007.

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NMN
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I have been thinking about this a lot lately and it just seems to make sense to me. We all came from the sea and have evolved into humans but we still need salt to survive.

After the universe is such a finely balanced complex place. Mother nature always seems to always have an answer to everything.

I would love it to be true. I have always thought that modern cures lie in the most simple natural unpatentable substances.

I have experienced some heavy herxing since starting the protocol. I would compare it to the herx I had on Flagyl a year ago which was the only time I have stopped an antibiotic. That was after 6 days at 750 mg.

I started at 2 grams 4 times daily. I will work my way up to 18 grams eventually. I get my electrolytes and full bloodwork done every 2/3 weeks so this enables me to keep a close eye on things.

I will report back my blood results when i get them. Next donation is tomorrow morning.

All opinions welcome. Just giving you my spin.

--------------------
Pos BB and Bart(Q & H IGG pos)
Began treat 1 year after start of illness. Diagnosed Feb 2007.

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pigwit
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How is it that bacteria and parasites exist in the ocean when it is full of sea salt?

How could life have evolved in a salt water solution (the ocean), assuming it is so good at killing things?

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karatelady
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Not everybody believes we all "came from the sea." That's a lot to assume on a board this diverse.

Sandy

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lymie_in_md
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I think the point of this article goes to ions. Its been the supposition that negative charged IONS are the key. Not necessarily salt/c! Ions will cause the communities pathogens a great amount of disruption in their communication to form biofilms or maintain biofilm structure. It is the reason ozone, colloidal silver and many other ion based chemical structures are effective against biofilms.

I think we should go further into how they prepare an ion based solutions to see how it might be effective for treatment.

--------------------
Bob

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MariaA
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I think you're misunderstanding what an ion is, no offense intended:

An ion is just a very basic unit of matter, kind of like an atom or a molecule. Among other things, it's what happens when salts "dissociate" in water. Ions aren't key to anything- they're an extremely common form of matter that don't have any special health properties any more than atoms or molecules have any special health properties.

The word 'ion' is misused in a lot of pseudoscience/false health claims marketing because most people don't understand what it means (for instance, I bought a cheap hairbrush that claims to have 'ionic action'. It doesn't do anything special, that's just marketing)


One good analogy would be:
-all medicine is made of molecules
-that doesn't mean that 'molecular' is the key word here.


Also, let's talk about salts for a second:

a salt is a very broad category of chemicals, formed when an acid reacts with a base, or when a metal reacts with an acid. They don't share a huge number of common properties other than what they're made from.

Many salts are very toxic to humans.

In the article above, they're talking about using concentrated chemicals (that just happen to be salts) as sterilizers of medical equipment and hospital surfaces. QUite often they use poisons for sterilizing things- but you'd never give such a sterilizer to a person internally.

Some basic examples of salts in chemistry are table salt, Ivory soap, lead diacetate (poisonous), mercury sulfide (also poisonous), etc. They all contain ions, it doesnt mean anything other than that we're dealing with a particular kind of chemistry.

the word 'ion' is constantly used in chemistry to describe how molecules react and re-combine, and it doesn't confer any specific health properties to the resulting molecule. You're full of ions right now, but if you swallow some compound with the wrong kind of ions you might die.

--------------------
Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!

Find me at Lymefriends, I post under the same name.
diet: http://lymefriends.ning.com/group/healthylowcarbrecipes
Homemade Probiotics thread
Herbal Links Thread

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MariaA
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also, there are tons of bacteria that thrive in salt water and even in more concentrated saltier brine like the Great Salt Lake (which at times is 5 times saltier than the ocean- at times it's as salty as water can get, beyond which it can't hold any more salt- and still, tons of specialized bacteria thrive).

This article:
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=4011434 says that there are more than 1000 kinds of bacteria in the Great Salt Lake

--------------------
Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!

Find me at Lymefriends, I post under the same name.
diet: http://lymefriends.ning.com/group/healthylowcarbrecipes
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MariaA
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quote:
Originally posted by NMN:
If it desolves bio films on surfaces through this process then why not inside the body? [/QB]

Concentration- amount of the chemical. If I scrub a surface with alcohol, I kill bacteria. If I just drink some vodka, there's enough to get ME sick, but not enough alcohol in my blood to actually kill anything.

Same analogy, except that they're probably not even talking about anything you can swallow. They're DEFINITELY not talking about sea salt/table salt/edible salt, and I'm sure from the description of the chemical, that they're not talking about anything even remotely like edible salt.

--------------------
Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!

Find me at Lymefriends, I post under the same name.
diet: http://lymefriends.ning.com/group/healthylowcarbrecipes
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Hoosiers51
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Interesting, this talk about "salts" (which are basically ions) dissolving biofilms.

Remember how there was the one doc....forgot who it was (maybe it was Dr. Fry?) that was suggesting for awhile using EDTA to break up biofilms?

Well "ions" are perhaps how EDTA also works, if I may be so general. EDTA is an acid, not a "salt," but it is interesting that it pulls ions (as stated in the quote I will put below).

I will paste a statement from Wikipedia that is from the first paragraph of what you get when you search EDTA:

"Its prominence as a chelating agent arises from its ability to "sequester" di- and tricationic metal ions such as Ca2+ and Fe3+. After being bound by EDTA, metal ions remain in solution but exhibit diminished reactivity."

(note: EDTA also binds Mg....it states this later on in the same Wikipedia article)

From what I gather, Ca 2+, Mg 2+.....those are the "building blocks" (suspected) of the biofilms. (note: those are also the building blocks of common "soap scrum") So maybe both EDTA (since we know it pulls these positive ions) and "salts" (using the general term, which would also include table salt) pull the biofilms apart?

I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just thinking out loud here, so hopfully if I'm wrong someone will come along and correct me.

If this is true, I would guess there are many things that you could use to break apart biofilms, not just table salt. Any electrolyte would theoretcially work the way table salt would, if you are SOLELY looking for the "ionic" benefits (because all electrolytes are bound ionically), and not the "other" benefits of NaCl (table salt).

I personally believe there may be "other" benefits of NaCl besides just the "ionic" benefit. There are too many people (including myself) who feel better when consuming salt/C as opposed to just "any electrolyte" to not merit further investigation as to what this is doing and why it's providing benefit to those who consume it.

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Hoosiers51
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pigwit asked:

How is it that bacteria and parasites exist in the ocean when it is full of sea salt?

How could life have evolved in a salt water solution (the ocean), assuming it is so good at killing things?


Some bacteria and "parasites" can live in salt water (the ocean), some can't.

Some evolution of species occurred on land, outside of a "salt water" atmosphere. (think about the bacteria that are evolving on land everyday, even as we speak). Some of life did (and continues to) evolve in the ocean, some of it didn't. That is why some species can survive salt and some can't.

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glm1111
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MariaA,

I doubt whether Neil was talking about ingesting the liquid ionic salt mentioned in the atricle. It's about the principle of salt.

"Ionic liquids just like table salt sprinkled on food are salts" This is a quote from the article.

Gael

--------------------
PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW
RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS*

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Mo
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wars were fought over salt many moons ago, it was long revered (scientifically) as having great healing properties.

for thousands of years.. from the ancient egyptians onward, just about every major civilization has used salt as medicine.
around the 1950s or so it began to be scientifically researched. the benefits were confirmed for a number of ailments, but clearly not all there is to know.

i.e.: salt bathing delivers powerful antiseptic and bactericidal qualities. (now used as therapy for a variety of skin ailments, including psoriasis, chronic eczema and arthritis.)

salts have been proven to be a powerful therapy for internal medicine as well, also for chronic respiratory diseases (steam is breathed in, it works to reduce inflammation, irritation and secretions)
drinking salt water has also been shown to improve gastric acids.

all salt crystals are considered beneficial for the human body. there is a huge difference between table salt, rock salt and himalayan salt.
(which i use, never personally used it to treat infection, but i use it daily for my health in general, internally, in the form of sole. i also have a giant himalayan salt crystal in my home which does "ionize" the air)

table salt contains just sodium and chloride, whereas himalayan salt contains 80 plus natural elements. these elements are described to mimic the "chemical" balance of the human body.

it's very interesting that salt can treat biofilms, i'm not surprised and i'd bet there are many undiscovered "protocols" we could utilize.

mo

--------------------
life shrinks and expands in proportion to one's courage
-- anais nin

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MariaA
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wars were fought over salt because it's a good way to preserve food, which is how countries fed their armies- salt cod, salt pork, salt beef, and so on (source: Salt: A World History, a really good book about the food uses of salt and the many wars fought over the food uses).

Many things contain ions. That doesn't mean that they are all medicinal or have bacteria-killing effects.

--------------------
Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!

Find me at Lymefriends, I post under the same name.
diet: http://lymefriends.ning.com/group/healthylowcarbrecipes
Homemade Probiotics thread
Herbal Links Thread

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METALLlC BLUE
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The point of the article is clear to me.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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bcox
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Question I have is to how much salt is safe for the body? I am starting the herbs of light therapy and salt crystals (100mg) are apart of this.

--------------------
bc

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Hoosiers51
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100 mg is a very small amount of salt.... 1/10 of a gram. Are you sure you didn't mean 1,000 mg (which is equal to a gram)?

I think the "powers that be" recommend we get around 3 grams a day, no more. (I of course have broken this since I've done salt/C).

I am not sure about people who are "salt sensitive", but the average person consumes WAY more salt than 100mg in a day (just look at the nutrition facts of some of your food and you'll realize how little 100mg is!)

People on the salt/C protocol can consume 100 times that in a day, (they consume 10 grams which is 10,000 mg) to give you an idea.

I'm not advocating one way or the another, just putting the numbers in perspective for you.

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glm1111
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Well, I guess I will just chime in here. I am taking between 15-20 gms a day of sea salt. I can only say that I am getting better every day and many bacteria, parasites and worms have been dying off.

Everything pictured in www.lymephotos.com is EXACTLY what came out of me and many others report the same. I have been doing salt/c for almost 3yrs now.

We can debate this all day long, but it works and works on co-infections as well. I am not pushing this on anyone, but it has saved my life. Many of us are salt deficient.

(TABLE SALT IS POISON!!) It is not advised for people that are salt sensitive or have pre-existing conditions like diabetes.

We have been so mislead by the medical community about so many things. They are scaring the public into a salt deficient and diseased state.

Gael

--------------------
PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW
RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS*

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She R Lock
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How much salt is safe for the body depends on the body.

The recommendation for sodium is 2400mg daily. The average person consumes more than 5000mg daily from diet alone.

Excess sodium can cause problems with fluid retention, electrolyte imbalance, heart and kidney problems, stroke, gastric cancer, high blood pressure and osteoporosis.

Some people are salt sensitive, particularly children, the elderly and those with certain medical conditions. Anyone consuming excessive sodium should be monitored closely by a health care professional.

--------------------
Sherlock

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glm1111
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Hi Amanda....

I did not take any antibiotics while on salt/c....I have taken them in the past approx 9yrs ago for 3-4yrs on and off....

I have done IVIG for 2 yrs and antiparasitic herbs, but it wasn't until I did the salt/c did I start to have the extreme dieoff...

There are people that take antibiotics while on salt/c....Hope this answers your question,

Gael

--------------------
PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW
RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS*

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R62
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What about ionic solutions of electrolytes like selectrolytes?

http://www.morinlabs.com/html_pages/select.html

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hiker53
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I did salt/C for a whole year and saw not one bit of progress. I give it a thumbs down, but that is just me.

Hiker53

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Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

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Keebler
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-


Some have found good benefit from Salt/C for additional parasites, but it's not proven to address spirochetes such as lyme, especially deep in the body.


Sea salt is better than regular table salt, even for normal use. Still, for anyone considering increasing salt intake, it's important to FIRST be checked by your doctor to be sure you do not have:

high blood pressure;

diabetes;

glaucoma;

any variations of cardiac rhythm;

or any kidney problems.

Increased salt (even sea salt) can be extremely dangerous for those with these conditions so it's important to know that. Edema or puffiness is one sign of kidney stress, so be mindful of that.


There's more here to study to be sure this would be a good fit:


http://kurtsprotocol.blogspot.com/2007/02/cautions-about-saltc.html


Cautions about Salt/C (2007)


========

Allicin can also help destroy biofilms. Allicin creams were found effective in destroying MSRA in hospital patients. Search www.bbc.com for articles about that - a couple years ago.

Internally, allicin is safe for those with any of the contraindications regarding increased salt. Allicin is also very effective again parasites.


-

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Blackstone
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I have to concur with MariaA here, guys. This is not a validation of the Salt/C protocol.
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glm1111
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Hiker53,

Just curious as to how many gms of salt you took. I do 20 gms a day and am 80-90% better. I have had not one problem on this protocol, only benefits and it has saved my life.

Sea salt is a broad spectrum antibiotic and has addressed the spirochetes as well as the co-infections. It is an age old remedy.

Gael

--------------------
PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW
RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS*

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Pinelady
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I know about the Allicin, I also know why I crave onions and garlic.

And I do put one tablespoon of salt either sea or kosher in my OJ before bed when I think I need it.

When I first started it I was neuro and I did not even measure I just poured some in.

I was so sick I did not worry about getting too much. My sodium was low. And I was so dizzy I could hardly walk.

The kosher seems to give me more bang for my effort. The sea salt seems too mild. Even kind of sweet.

While I still have low BP and normal sodium levels-used to be low before I started,--

I would think that the sodium ion connectivity at the cellular level would aid in the absorbtion

of the antibiotics by breaching the biotin barrier.

Not hinder it.

We have normal saline IV fluids to keep people alive.

It is PH balanced to provide the osmosis our bodies need in the event of stress to the body.

We have to have sodium for all bodily functions. Especially electrical functions.

The nerves will not function properly if PH balance is off.

The cells require it. If you have low sodium this would make sense.

--------------------
Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

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hiker53
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Gael,

I did 10 grams of salt per day, but I only weighed 90 pounds. Never saw one parasite leave the body nor felt any better. But if it works fo you, fine.

Hiker53

--------------------
Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

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yanivnaced
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I'd love to see a study where they look at motile and cyst form spirochetes under the microscope before and after adding salt solution.
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Alv
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We are all diferent..Some have had parasites before they got lyme some not...we need to combine the protocolls based on our needs.

Finding what you have and what works for you is very important but shuting down option for others is not fair.

I did found releif and NOT my daughter. We are diferent and she has less coinfections than I do.

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