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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » toxins are killing me. now i cant even take vicodin????

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Author Topic: toxins are killing me. now i cant even take vicodin????
Nal
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Ok, most of you know i have been dealing with dizziness for months now. I am also treating some serious toxins. Now in the past i could tolerate taking a vicodin or two if I needed to for pain and have to affect. I could also have a drink and not have any effects.

Now??? If I take even one vicodin im sick to my stomach, dizzy as anything, spacey, etc. The same holds true if I have even one drink.

What is happening? Im getting ready to treat for parasites next but im afraid the toxin die from that may be too much for me. I know im full of toxins and i am working on eliminating them with my dr but why cant i tolerate the vicodin even anymore?????

[ 05-26-2009, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: Nal ]

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Life is 10% what happens to you, 90% how you respond to it!

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groovy2
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Hi Nal-

Drink 3 to 5 gallons of water or warm tea per day-
doing this worked for me--Jay--

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bettyg
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nal, [group hug] [kiss]

i have no knowledge on this, but suggest you add VICODIN to subject line and then those folks on it can read and give you THEIR personal experience w/this pain pill ok [Smile]


just click on pencil, 3rd box to right of your nickname; will open up subject line and body text. best wishes on getting more replies [Smile]

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Keebler
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-

Vicodin contains acetaminephin and that is very hard on the liver. The other ingredient, hydrocodone, can be toxic to the ears. That may be causing the vertigo. On top of lyme toxins, that may be why your body is rejecting it.


I can't tolerate that at all, either. And it never helped for pain relief, anyway, not like other people seem to get.


Magnesium and fish oil help me with pain reduction. Massage, too. Ginger helps reduce vertigo and nausea.

-

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Nal
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Yeah, I didn't realize hydrocodone could be toxic to ears. How did you know that? That could definately cause it. Im just tired of being to miserable.

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Life is 10% what happens to you, 90% how you respond to it!

-Chuck Swindoll

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Keebler
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-

Rush Limbaugh went deaf from too much of a similar drug (oxycodone).


I researched it a bit then as it's just an interesting topic to me -- I have major ear troubles so it's sort of my second life to try to figure all this out.


I had a friend who could easily take vicodin and not even feel loopy. It did decrease her pain from cancer but she was then having trouble hearing. Tests reveled that, in just one year's time, she had lost a large degree of function.


If I even took one on a rare occasion for pain after a bad fall, I'd be far more dizzy and "hung over" even from 1/2 a dose and the tinnitus would shoot to the moon.


So, I contacted the American Tinnitus Association and went from there to read some of Neil Bauman's work on ototoxic drugs (in the Tinnitus thread below).


For lyme patients who are sensitive to meds anyway, and whose livers are not working well enough to metabolize all the toxins already in us, even a normal dose of certain drugs can be harder on our ears.


That is also why alcohol is so dangerous for lyme patients. The liver just can't handle it and the neuro cells also can't deal with any more chemical effects.


Another view as to why liver support is so important:

-----

If the liver's Cytochrome P-450 pathway is overwhelmed (as is frequently the case for lyme patients) . . . vidocin can be even more toxic, as it uses the C P-450 pathway and is to be avoided for those who have this liver condition:


http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=071168


Topic: PORPHYRIA LINKS - Re: Cytochrome P-450 liver detox pathway


-

[ 05-26-2009, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Keebler
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http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=065801


Topic: TINNITUS: Ringing Between The Ears; Vestibular, Balance, Hearing with compiled links

=====================


www.hearinglossweb.com/Medical/Causes/oto/vic.htm


Prescription Painkillers Linked to Hearing Loss


The LA Times is reporting that prolonged use of high dosages of Vicodin and similar prescription painkillers has been linked to hearing loss in at least 48 cases.


Doctors at the House Ear Institute (HEI) and other medical centers have verified that exceptionally high dosages of these medications for several months have caused sudden hearing loss.


One of the most commonly prescribed painkillers, Vicodin is effective against many different kinds of pains.

. . .

HEI doctors now believe that they saw their first case of Vicodin-induced hearing loss in 1993, although they didn't identify the cause at that time. They first reported Vicodin-related hearing loss incidents to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) in 1999, and again last month.

. . .

Vicodin is a combination of acetaminophen and hydrocodone and is also sold under the brand names Lorcet, Lortab and Hydrocet.


It is the combination of acetaminophen and hydrocodone that seems to cause hearing loss, though scientists don't yet know how.


- full article at link above.

-

[ 05-26-2009, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Blackstone
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What are you referring to as toxins?
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brf
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I've tried all kinds of things for detoxing with little results.

Recently I've had some major improvement in that area with sarsaparilla and more so with coptis in fairly high doses.

I've been desperately sick - bedbound and housebound - but I was able quite unexpectedly to go out last Saturday to a social event - my first one in years.

I've got a long way to go yet but it has given me some real hope that improvement for me, which seems so elusive, may yet come.

I know we all seem to respond so differently to various substances but I felt compelled to write this - just in case it might have the same benefit for you.

Wishing You Wellness

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Nal
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thanks for the article keebler. very interesting. i swear sometimes the toxins from everything dying off will kill me before the lyme does. its crazy.

--------------------
Life is 10% what happens to you, 90% how you respond to it!

-Chuck Swindoll

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Nal
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how else can you find out what other medications can be ototoxic?

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Life is 10% what happens to you, 90% how you respond to it!

-Chuck Swindoll

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massman
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Make sure your primary detox organs, liver and kidneys are healthy so the detox stresses you less.
From Systemic Formulas (thru docs only):
Ls, L, K, Accell.

www.systemicformulas.com

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sixgoofykids
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Have you ever tried a Hulda Clark liver cleanse? I never did till recently because I wasn't convinced ..... after two, I'm convinced, and feeling much better.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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Nal
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I took a phengran last night hoping it might help. Guess what? It made it worse!! How is that possible?

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Life is 10% what happens to you, 90% how you respond to it!

-Chuck Swindoll

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Keebler
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Nal,

I'll post here some of what I sent from your PM question. You asked how to find out what drugs are ototoxic . . . there are a few links at the TINNITUS thread below. It's best to consult several lists as there are some differing opinions.


Sorry, it's always such a bummer.


GINGER and MAGNESIUM are the best and safest anti-vertigo drugs for patients with lyme or liver stress. GINGER is also great to help relieve nausea. Depending upon the cause, though, it's has different levels of effectiveness (as can any remedy).


I found out the hard way, many times, that most drugs that work for others are just poison to me and make symptoms much WORSE.


Many lyme patients have very severe side effects from drugs that most people can pop like candy. Many of the drugs for vertigo can actually make it MUCH worse - I thought I was the only one but - MANY lyme patients have similar reactions.


For many lyme patients, even a tiny dose of certain drugs can cause the side-effects seen from higher doses in others.


It could be because many of these drugs are also very hard on the liver but, also, ANY drug that SEDATES can make vertigo worse for patients with inner ear disorders or liver dysfunction. All that frequency goes along with lyme.


Also, for anyone with an inner ear disorder, a sedative drug should NEVER be used as that will increase weakness for someone who already has to rely too much on their body if the inner ear system is off kilter.


========================


GINGER capsules are the only thing that I would suggest. And they really do work just as well most of the time.

Vertigo can also be part of lyme. It can be a separate vestibular disorder . . . and certain meds make vertigo worse (mino, zith, biaxin).

===========

GINGER TEA or GINGER CAPSULES are the safest remedy for vertigo in lyme patients


Google Search: promethazine, porphyria - many links that say:


Promethazine is considered to be unsafe in patients with acute porphyria.

--

That means that, for lyme patients with liver overwhelmed from lyme toxins and meds already, that their liver may not be able to handle it.

So side-effects may not be so much as side-effects as excess porphyrins. That can be dangerous, even if a person does not have a genetic porphryria, too many toxins in the body can contribute to a ``secondary porphyria''


==

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

PubMed Search:

vertigo, MAGNESIUM - 9 abstracts

vertigo, GINGER - 4 abstracts

nausea, GINGER - 98 abstracts

Promethazine, porphyria - 6 abstracts. See the first one, especially:

``Drug use in porphyria: a therapeutic dilemma.''

---

See this link for more and lists of drugs that are safer:


http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=071168

Topic: PORPHYRIA LINKS - Re: Cytochrome P-450 liver detox pathway

==============


Phenergan (promethazine)


From Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promethazine

. . .

can also have strong sedative effects

. . .

Some common side effects include:

Blurred vision

Confusion in the elderly

Drowsiness, dizziness, fatigue, more rarely vertigo

Dry mouth

Seizures (extremely rare)

Neuroleptic malignant syndrome (extremely rare)

Respiratory depression in patients under age of 2 and in those with severely compromised pulmonal function

Constipation (note: and that makes toxins in our body more dangerous)

Euphoria (very rare with high IV doses and/or coadministration with opioids/CNS depressants)

Restless legs [7]

Paresthesia

. . .

In high doses, promethazine can create auditory and visual hallucinations causing panic and intense fear.

. . .

Diana Levine, a woman suffering from a migraine was administered Wyeth's Phenergan via IV push. The drug was injected improperly resulting in gangrene and subsequent amputation of her right arm below the elbow.

. . .

========================


http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=065801

Topic: TINNITUS: Ringing Between The Ears; Vestibular, Balance, Hearing with compiled links


=====================


VESTIBULAR DISORDERS ASSOCIATION

www.vestibular.org

--

http://www.vestibular.org/vestibular-disorders/symptoms.php

VESTIBULAR SYMPTOMS (which are often a part of lyme or can be a separate issue).


-

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Keebler
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-

In addition to liver support methods (although the Turmeric in this is good for the liver) . . .


With thanks to JRWagner who, from another thread today, reminded me of this marvelous product that has Ginger and other wonderful things to help decrease inflammation.


The ingredients in this are also very good for nausea and vertigo. Some are also calming to the nervous system (holy basil and skullcap) but do so in a safe way.

I've not taken this particular product but have taken every ingredient in it at one time or another. As a formula, this looks like it will be very agreeable with most people.

Since it has oregano, though, I'd take it in the middle of a meal and with the Holy Basil and Skullcap, I'd take it at dinner so that I'd not be out and about if the calming effect were to be too much.

However, with anything new, it's best to try it first when you'll not be out driving or taking that first Tango lesson, eh?

===============


http://www.prohealth.com/zyflamend.htm


ZYFLAMEND (from NEW CHAPTER)


Ingredients:

https://www.prohealth.com/shop/product.cfm/product__code/N0189/tab/Label#title


=======


The Ginger in Zyflamend is just 100 mg. You might want to add to that a separate Ginger capsule.

I take Oregon's Wild Harvest Organic Ginger - each capsule is 500 mg. Three per day is recommended.

-----

http://www.oregonswildharvest.com/purchase

Store Locator

-----

http://www.shoporegonherbs.com/store/browse/product/ginger

Organic Ginger Capsules (they also have a ginger tincture)

-

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tickalert
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If your trying to detox why not take lemonw ith water and Chlorella. Do you have a doc that is helping with this?
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Nal
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oh my lmd is totally helping me with all this. i do drink lots of lemon water. what is chlorella?

--------------------
Life is 10% what happens to you, 90% how you respond to it!

-Chuck Swindoll

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tickalert
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Heavy metal removal using chlorella
Chlorella is a powerful detoxification aid for heavy metals and other pesticides. Numerous research projects in the U.S. and Europe indicate that chlorella can also aid the body in breaking down persistent hydrocarbon and metallic toxins such as mercury, cadmium and lead, DDT and PCB while strengthening the immune system response. In Japan, interest in chlorella has focused largely on its detoxifying properties - its ability to remove or neutralize poisonous substances from the body.

This detoxification of heavy metals and other chemical toxins in the blood will take 3 to 6 months to build up enough to begin this process depending on how much chlorella a person is taking. Chlorella is a food. As such, it is almost impossible to take too much chlorella. It is also this fibrous material which greatly augments healthy digestion and overall digestive track health.


How Does Chlorella Detoxify Your Body?
Chlorella is comprised of a fibrous, indigestible outer shell (20%) and its inner nutrients (80%). It is the fibrous material which has been proven to actually bind with the heavy metals and pesticides - such as PCBs - which can accumulate in our bodies.

A clean bloodstream, with an abundance of red blood cells to carry oxygen, is necessary to a strong natural defense system. Chlorella's cleansing action on the bowel and other elimination channels, as well as its protection of the liver, helps keep the blood clean. Clean blood insures that metabolic wastes are efficiently carried away from the tissues.

Chlorella gets its name from the high amount of chlorophyl it possesses. Chlorella contains more chlorophyl per gram than any other plant. Chlorophyl is one of the greatest food substances for cleansing the bowel and other elimination systems, such as the liver and the blood.

Green algae are the highest sources of chlorophyl in the plant world. And of all the green algae studied so far, chlorella has the highest, often ranging from 3 to 5% pure natural chlorophyll.

Chlorella is a key detoxification tool
Hemoglobin is the protein in our red blood cells which binds with oxygen and gives blood its bright red color. Chlorophyll cells are nearly identical to hemoglobin, with one exception: Chlorophyll has a magnesium molecule at its center while hemoglobin has an iron molecule at the center of it.
This is important because magnesium is essential for the heart to function properly. Every time our heart beats, it is utilizing magnesium to do so.
Chlorophyll is effective against anemia and stimulates the production of red blood cells in the body. It also helps carry oxygen around the body and to the brain. This is why chlorella is often called a 'Brain Food'.
Several researchers have suggested the use of chlorophyll as a medical therapy for anemia.


Chlorella Will Improve Your Digestive System
Since chlorella has such a high chlorophyll content, people find chronic bad breath is often eliminated in just a few days on chlorella. Foul smelling stools are also greatly improved and chlorophyll has been attributed to relieving constipation.


Chlorella Shown To Be Helpful in Fighting Cancer
Interferon is one of our body's greatest natural defenses against cancer. One of the ways we fight cancer is to use agents to stimulate macrophage production and activity. Interferon is a natural secretion of the body which is thought to be a stimulator of macrophages and tumor necrosis factor.

Chlorella stimulates the activity of macrophages and T-cells by increasing interferon levels thus enhancing the immune system's ability to combat foreign invaders whether they are viruses, bacteria, chemicals or foreign proteins.




Chlorella Contains Natural Digestive and other Enzymes
Chlorella contains enzymes such as chlorophyllase and pepsin, which are two digestive enzymes. Enzymes perform a number of important functions in the body. Chlorella has many different types of enzymes that our bodies need.

It is essential that any chlorella you take is NOT freeze dried or pasteurized. If it is, then you have lost the crucial benefit of enzymes such as these.



Chlorella is Alkaline and Helps Balance Your Body's pH
It's important that we maintain a balance body pH of ideally about 7.2-7.4, which is about neutral. However, because of our poor diet of junk food, overcooked, processed foods, fast food, which include soft drinks which have a pH of 2.7, most of us are not balanced.

This is important because most diseases start, live and thrive in an acidic environment and do not live well in an alkaline environment. Cancer rates have risen steadily so that now fully 1/3 of all people in the U. S. will get cancer in their lifetime.

The rise of fast, junk and processed foods match those of rising cancer rates. 30 years ago, cancer in children was almost unheard of. Now they have entire hospital wards given over to children with cancer. Including whole foods like chlorella in your diet is one step you can take toward reducing your risks for cancer.

Chlorella Normalizes Blood Sugar and Blood Pressure
Studies have shown that chlorella tends to normalize blood sugar in cases of hypoglycemia. In hypoglycemia, blood sugar is too low. Proper levels of blood sugar are necessary for normal brain function, heart function and energy metabolism, all of which are crucial in sustaining good health and preventing disease.

High blood pressure is one of the major risk factors in heart attack and stroke, which account for more fatalities in the United States than any other disease. Laboratory experiments have shown that regular use of chlorella reduces high blood pressure and prevents strokes in rats.

You can find the best price on the internet for high quality chlorella here . I encourage you to compare with other merchants on the internet and you will see what I mean.

The pillars of a good mercury detoxification program are chlorella, N-acetyl-cysteine (NAC), MSM and the herb cilantro, which is discussed here. My favorite source for organic cilantro in 1 pound bags is here. Garlic is also a good mercury chelator.


Next, let's look at how much chlorella you should take per day for mercury detoxification.

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