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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Chronic Lyme, Reality & Steps That Work- What are you doing about the Biofilms?

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Author Topic: Chronic Lyme, Reality & Steps That Work- What are you doing about the Biofilms?
efsd25
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Chronic Lyme

If you have chronic lyme, it is an endless fight to beat back and manage the infection(s). Antibiotics, Dr appointments, supplements and the endless outflow of cash are our long term companions.

As we have read and seen, Lyme turns chronic once biofilms form in our body and lyme colonizes within the protective biofilms. This was documented in ``Under our Skin''.

Analogy to Chronic Gum disease

It turns out, the dental profession has been knowingly and aggressively fighting biofilms for years. There is abundant medical literature on the web about chronic gum disease and its causative agent...the biofilms in our mouths. Just google ``gum disease + biofilms''.
One example: http://tinyurl.com/c9ad4

What is the conclusion of the dental profession about chronic gum disease?

Reality

Per my dentist....bacterial Chronic Gum disease cannot be cured, regardless of antibiotic and cleaning therapies; it can only be managed once it has taken hold. That is why we get our teeth cleaned 2-3 times a year...right?

IF that is result of fighting biofilms in our mouth, where we can physically get at them, what chance do we have at fighting Lyme colonized biofilms within our body?

Probably the same as chronic gum disease...managed not cured! Does this make sense?

Steps that work together

Probably many folks are doing this for chronic Lyme...but if not...something to consider...

1)Antibiotics....of course

2) Enzymes to chemically attack the biofilms. Lumbrokinase, Nattokinase and Wobenzym N seem to be the common enzymes to use for this. My LLMD has added Guaifenesin, a common mucus-clearing agent, available at any drugstore. Enzyme Reference: Enzymatic Detachment of Staphylococcus epidermidis Biofilms
http://tinyurl.com/npdpeo

3) Physical disruption of the biofilms by AC electromagnetic fields. There is growing evidence that alternating EM fields help breakdown biofilms and thereby increase the effectiveness of the antibiotics. Actually there appear to me many avenues that show promise...Low frequency EM fields( 72 hertz) , radiowave frequency EM fields, ultrasound. Try googling ``biofilms + frequency + fields for references. Here is one reference of many:

http://tinyurl.com/q8xfvc

This is one reason why rifing may be so helpful for chronic lymers.

4) exercise & detox of course are critical

5) Anyone want to add anything else?

[ 06-07-2009, 11:53 PM: Message edited by: efsd25 ]

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bettyg
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25,

your long links caused your post to go SUPER WIDE where we neuro folks can't read it.


could you please do the below to make a tinyurl.com to make it go back to NORMAL WIDTH? big thanks [Smile]


may i walk you thru it?

go to the link and chose edit

now COPY the long direct link


open ANOTHER WINDOW to work from.

i just use any of the top lines...forum home, etc.
R. CLICK MOUSE to open another window

now in new window, go to address line and delete what is in it...

type www.tinyurl.com and click go

it should come up and a BLANK SPACE appears in a small box, PASTE that long link there

it will now convert it to a tiny link to use.


copy the new tinyurl link and paste that to the other open window of the SUPER WIDE post.

DELETE THE LONG LINK leaving the tinyurl only.


DO THIS FOR EVERY LONG LINK YOU SHOWED ABOVE PLEASE. thank you [Smile] hugs


click edit send; then check it to make sure it worked ok.

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Buster
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Beating lyme disease is:

Killing the infections

Detox

Boosting the immune system


There are categories that fit under these three but these are the main points from what several doctors believe.

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Abxnomore
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Yes, but there is no consensus on how to accomplish that (it hasn't been figured out yet) and there is no one size fits all with this illness.

If there were, curing this illness would be as simple as steps 1,2,3 and there would be no need for this site.

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efsd25
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The point I am trying to make with this post, is that biofilms are the problem, not so much the bacteria. If we can remove the biofilms, then we can clean-up the bacteria.

The two most effective weapons we currently have to attack biofilms are enzymes and tuneable EM field generators like rife. I am also wondering if the Bionic treatments are in some way doing the same things as the EM fields...???

Any insights from the folks who have gone to Germany?


Thanks Bettyg! I have the tiny url icon on the toolbar now.

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Abxnomore
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Bump ....for more feedback.

I understand your point, efsd25. I was responding to Buster in that the three points he raised are not enough and not the complete answer.

Let's explore the points you made more. I for one think rife is an excellent tool in fighting this illness. I never felt that ABX alone would do it and always used alternative modalities along with ABX.

Would like to learn more about bio films. I used wobenzym, grapefuit seed extract, monolaurin thru out my illness and now I'm learning that some of these are useful with bio films.

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efsd25
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Hi Abxnomore,

I agree...wobenzym, grapefruit seed extract, monolaurin are important. I know Wobenzym works on the biofilms.....have you read or hear anything about GSE or monolaurin doing the same?

Like many folks on this forum, I've been fighting lyme for over 20 years, and it is great to see that the research community is slowing making progress on Lyme. More dollars are flowing to the labs for Lyme studies.

What concerns me is that, is that on the Lyme forums, Lymenet and Eurolyme for example, few people are talking about how to deal with the biofilms.....and that is the most important problem there is with chronic lyme. It is what is causing our Lyme to be chronic!

Why aren't people jumping up and down about this and looking for answers?

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springshowers
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If you look here there is a lot of talk going on about this subject.
They are not as excited on that site as you are. though : (I

Lymenet Medical

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bettyg
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hi spring showers bring may or june flowers ....

on your above link, i thought i was going to our OWN LYMENET MEDICAL BOARD ...


may i suggest you show that as lymenet EUROPE medical? thanks [Smile] big difference of boards ....

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Ivy
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My naturopath said to take Bromelain in between meals for biofilms.
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imagine2
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Hi,
I don't know how old this site is and haven't read it yet..hurts my eyes right now. Hope there is some good info here.

I am really interested in the biofilm issue too.
http://www.molecularalzheimer.org/

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D Bergy
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I think the bio film is one reason that it is so difficult to eliminate the bacteria completely.

My current strategy is to continue using our current Rife derived frequency treatments, with the addition of frequencies mathematically calculated to disrupt the DNA of the Lyme bacteria.

I do not know if this method works yet, and it will take some time to test it out. I will report back if anything positive or negative comes out of it.

This method, if it works, should not be hindered by bio films or any other physical barrier the bacteria can put up.

I am also using the same method for treating Babesia.

It should either work extremely well, or not at all.

Dan

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ping
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Green clay and psyllium once per day for 6 weeks might help eliminate biofilms in the gut, which is where they most likely hang out. (See Dr. K.'s protocol on Lyme)

It's made me feel quite a bit better and is affordable. Of course, as is usual with Lyme, there are no guarantees.

ping
"We are more than containers for Lyme"

--------------------
ping
"We are more than containers for Lyme"

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efsd25
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Dan Bergy thanks for sharing your DNA strategy..good luck with that!

I read on one study researchers used a coil with 72 hertz to break up biofilms. I don't know the rational behind this particular frequency was. Any ideas why 72 hertz might lend itself to this?
I tried 72 hertz last night with a doug coil....No big response from that frequency for me.

Ping, Thanks for the clay comment. Do you know how the clays work to eliminate biofilms? Is it a scrubbing concept or does it have to do with clays ability to bind with certain cations?

Ernie

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peacemama
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Bromelain. . interesting.

And where is a good source for green clay?

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ping
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Ernie - As you surmized, it is the scrub action of the psyllium that helps remove bios, then, the clay absorbs it and carries it through the feces which is very important because of the intestines ability to reabsorb so many things that should be excreted, including toxins from metals, etc.

You might want to incorporate several tx tactics for this one. (I'm doing A.I. before I do anything else.) Best to you whatever you do.

ping
"We are more than containers for Lyme"

--------------------
ping
"We are more than containers for Lyme"

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D Bergy
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It appears that 72 Hz is for everything including the Kitchen Sink.

I have no idea how that particular frequency was arrived at for Bio film. It appears to be primarily a Fungus frequency. Who knows if it does anything at all.

Dan

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efsd25
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Ping, thanks...I was wondering why the clays worked. Please excuse my ignorance..what is A.I?

Ernie

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j_liz
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My LLMD has me taking Cat's Claw and Bromelain for the biofilms.

liz

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ping
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quote:
Originally posted by efsd25:
Ping, thanks...I was wondering why the clays worked. Please excuse my ignorance..what is A.I?

Ernie

Ernie - A.I. is "Allergie Immune". See the post I bumped back up called "Allergie Immune Germany". This company has been in business for 10 years and GiGi has blazed the trail for us on this forum.

It was my intention to begin detox after I finished the clay mix, but in reading GiGi's posts, I'm going to give AI a try first before doing anything else. I've been off abx and all other tx for some months now (in tx for 7 years) and have what docs are calling "probably permanent damage", etc. Hypertension, food allergies, loads of every kind of toxin you can think of...

In one of GiGi's posts, you'll see a reference to her detoxing for about 10 years and never losing an appreciable amount of toxins because of the blockages A.I. says must be corrected first.

Anyway, it's most definitely worth the ~$550 investment for me. I'm sick of all these leftovers.

ping
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--------------------
ping
"We are more than containers for Lyme"

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efsd25
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Dan, Thanks for the info on 72 hertz, what a bucket. But the results did show a 50 % decrease of the bacterial load with the Pulsed, ac 72 hertz EM fields.
http://tinyurl.com/q8xfvc

That is a wonderfully creative solution to go after the Bb DNA....how did you model it to estimate the resonant frequency? How would that be different from our DNA...just curious. If it works, what an awesome step!!

Ernie

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luvs2ride
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Here is what my doctor has me on.

Ultrabalance Parasitic Protocol 1 by Balance Nutraceuticals. On the bottle it says,

Supports immune defenses with high capacity for biofilm destruction

--------------------
When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace.

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D Bergy
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I am using Char Boehm's frequencies that she calculates using the genomes of whatever bacteria is needed. I have used a couple of her frequencies before and did notice a reaction similar to the standard Lyme frequencies.

http://www.dnafrequencies.com/

She chages a small fee for her work. It cost me $35.00 for the frequencies for Borrelia Burgdorferi and Babesia. Quite reasonable given the amount of time it takes to research and develope the proper frequencies.

My wife's initial treatment was last night. She now has joint pain in her hands, tail bone and spine.

This is consistant with standard Lyme frequencies, so I know it is affecting the bacteria, but not sure if it will damage the cyst form as other frequencies do not.

We will see what the long term results are. If it works, it should only take a couple of months of treatment, and then it should be gone. At least that is what I think should happen.

She does have an explanation of what is different about bacterial DNA versus ours. It is on her site. Of course all of this is experimental, and has the risks associated with experimental treatments in general.

Dan

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brentb
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I'm having some very good results with my new protocol. I've been on MMS for some time now with mixed results. About 2 months ago I added some amoxicillin and each week I'm better off than the one before.

This is very good news for me because abx would normally work for awhile before the biofilm recognizes it and fights back with it's own toxins. High dose IV Gent and Vanco wasn't enough. Just guessing but I think the MMS plays havoc with the communication system which is what makes the biofilms so indestructible.

MMS is not a more is better type drug. Since it is a oxidizer I suspect any overuse robs the body of its own store of electrons and will wear you out. Whatever the case if you're getting sick just back off and start with a lower dose. I'm also on silver, grapefruit seed, iodine, probiotics and garlic. So far so good.

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springshowers
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Hi Luvs
Where do you purchase the item you doctor is giving you?
Thanks

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Hoosiers51
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Yes I would like to know as well so I can see the ingredient list.

I typed it into google and nothing came up!

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luvs2ride
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I purchase it from my doctor. I don't think this can be purchased outside of a physician. Here are the ingredients.

Indian clove, pumpkin seed, Indian Neem, Tumeric, Wormwood herb, Sida Cordifolia, Gentian root, Turkey Rhubarb Root, Oregano Leaf, Rehmmania Glutinosa Root, Senna Leaf, Yucca Root.

It is taken in combination with Paracidin by Premier Research Labs. That one does not claim to break up biofilms.

--------------------
When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace.

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efsd25
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This is great feedback, many thanks!!

Here is another angle for attack that sounds like it may have promise:

Enzymatically-active bacteriophage that directly target the infection site, where they can simultaneously penetrate the biofilm's protective slime layer and kill the bacteria underneath.

http://tinyurl.com/m7g5pn

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ninjaphire
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Vitamin K2 MK4 attacks dental plaque and arterial plaque.

After taking 5mg MK4 everyday I no longer have dental plaque. I now take 15 mg MK4.

Biofilms depend on Calcium or Iron to form.

So IP6 to chelate Iron may also be useful.

I also get some sort of herx from both of these supplements, so something is going on.

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Pinelady
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I am doing the coconut oil for biofilms. Between

all of us we have quite a conundrum. I don't really

know the dosage I am just going for it.

--------------------
Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

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foggyfroggy
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What is MMS please?
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D Bergy
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Miracle Mineral Supplement (MMS)

It actually is Sodium Chlorite which is activated using Citric Acid or Vinegar.
This converts it into Chlorine Dioxide which is a disinfectant that kills acidic pathogens.

It is experimental and has been discussed here before. If you do a search, you will have plenty of information.

Dan

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Blackstone
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MMS is highly controversial in respect to both its safety and effectiveness. If you have the ability to speak to a physician about it, please do so before starting any sort of regiment. It has remarkable similarity to colloidal silver in that it has people who feel very strong about its safety and effectiveness on both sides, but little real evidence to prove either of them right.

In respect to biofilm destroying enzymes last I checked the "top" product was Rechts-Regulat. It is extremely difficult to get ahold of in the US and costs $100 for a very small bottle.

Next on the scale is Wobenzym(N)- I've heard there are "good" and "bad" versions of this, usually in respect to the capsule coating. I'm not sure which is which - some say to avoid the red coating because it contains a very, very small amount of sugar and some sort of red dye, others say the clear capsules are not as effective.

There has been a lot of talk here about bromelain - This is derived from pineapple. If you have a healthfood store in your area, I suggest purchasing "Pure Pineapple" by Lakewood Organics. It is one of the only organic, no water/sugar added, not from concentrate pineapple juices I've found, and tasty too!

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hobokinite
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Yes, enzymes with meals and between meals are very important and must be part of your cannon. They also help with chunky, clumpy blood.
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