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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Advice on Gallbladder after negative HIDA?

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Author Topic: Advice on Gallbladder after negative HIDA?
Tiramisu
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Hello.

2 1/2 months ago I had what I think was GB attack. I had a burger and fries for dinner that night. 2 hours of intense pain, finally threw up a tiny bit. Watched my diet for awhile.

Next time I had a burger and fries, I had pain in right side of my back again, but wouldn't consider it an attack. I've since changed my diet and avoided such foods.

Still have right mid-back pain with modified diet.

Had negative GB ultrasound and HIDA scan was 53%. Was told to come in to discuss further.

My pains are usually right mid back, but sometimes out to right side, or down further near hip, or creep over to left of spine. I hate going to a duck with these wishy-washy complaints. I was sure it was gallbladder!

I know Klutzo had to have endoscopy with a biliary microscopy to see the small stones. Anyone else have this done? Is it difficult to find a doc who is willing to do this?

This doesn't feel intestinal to me...more like pushing into my ribs and causing internal back pain. No nausea, but intermittent mild diarrhea.

If anyone has advice on which direction to take, I'd appreciate it. Should I see a GI doc for endoscopy?

Posts: 175 | From SW PA | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tiramisu
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BTW, LLMD told me since I'm not overweight, these tests should be very accurate at finding any stones.

I also did a Clarke liver cleanse and go no stones, just a couple yellow green soft things, mostly just yellow globs. I'm too chicken to try it again.

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Cold Feet
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Yellow-green soft things = gall stones. Although they come in all different colors, shapes and sizes, for sure!

I'll be doing the Clark cleanse again this month...I think it will be cleanse six.

I've learned that you have to follow the recipe for the cleanse precisely. I've also found that FRESH grapefruit juice provides the best cleanse (instead of water, apple juice, etc.).

If you really want to do it right, you can take strong anti-parasitics. E.g., Humaworm for 30 days (or any and all of the high-quality herbs therein).

You did it once, it should get easier...

--------------------
My biofilm film: www.whyamistillsick.com
2004 Mycoplasma Pneumonia
2006 Positive after 2 years of hell
2006-08 Marshall Protocol. Killed many bug species
2009 - Beating candida, doing better
Lahey Clinic in Mass: what a racquet!

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Tiramisu
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I should clarify my cleanse results because I worded it wrong.
The yellow stuff weren't even globs, just a little bit of yellow which I thought were streaks of olive oil. I think only 2 yellow-green "globs" which were tiny.
Overall it wasn't much at all.

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Aniek
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This can be pancreatitis. My pancreatitis mimics gall bladder attacks and that is what we thought it was at first. Your pancreatic enzymes are usually heightened with pancreatitis, but not always.

There is also the possibility of the Sphincter of Odi Syndrome. The Sphincter of Odi is a sphincter next to your gall bladder. If it spasms, it mimics gallbladder attacks.

--------------------
"When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison

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Tiramisu
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Thanks Aniek. So your pancreatitis pain is in the back? Was your difficult to dx because of normal enzymes?
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Tiramisu
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Anyone else discover it was gallbladder after negative HIDA?
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Lymetoo
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My HIDA was positive, so I can't help you there. But I did have stones in my bile duct several years AFTER the GB surgery.

I had an MCRP or something like that to clear the stones.

I hope you get an answer soon!!

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Tiramisu
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Thanks Lymetoo, for your input.
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TX Lyme Mom
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http://www.practicalgastro.com/pdf/April06/SherrArticle.pdf

Quote below is taken from pg. 79 of the medical journal article (link above):

"The case of ``Mrs. M'' illustrates another important
method of detecting the presence of an active Lyme
infection as well as uncovering a possible contributing
cause of cholecystitis. Gall bladder (GB) tissue was
tested for Bb spirochetal DNA following a cholecystectomy
on this seronegative patient: A middle-aged
woman with a known diagnosis of pre-existing,
asymptomatic gallstones, experienced episodes of
allergies, severe headaches and extreme chronic
fatigue. She was treated for 2 tick-borne diseases---
LYD and babesiosis, having had symptoms of both and
a positive PCR blood test for babesiosis. The LYD was
treated with oral antibiotics and then 3 months of IV
ceftriaxone (Rocephin) following which she showed
improvement.
About a year later, Mrs. M, again fatigued, developed
right shoulder blade pain and afebrile nausea
after eating greasy foods. Surgery to remove her diseased
gallbladder was scheduled. Treatment (doxycycline)
for suspected but unproven persistent Lyme was
begun. The family physician asked that biopsy specimens
of the removed gall bladder be tested in a reference
laboratory specializing in tick-borne diseases
(31). The resultant PCR test on her gall bladder tissue
was positive for DNA of the causative Bb spirochete of
Lyme disease. This PCR biopsy confirmation of a
seronegative patient's Lyme diagnosis illustrates that,
while Western Blot and PCR blood sample testing,
especially for active late stage LYD, may not show a
positive antibody response, a tissue PCR analysis may
confirm the diagnosis, even when the patient has previously
been treated. PCR's done on blood are less satisfactory
since Bb prefers an in-tissue environment.
Treatment of Lyme disease by IV Rocephin can lead to
gall bladder sludging. In this case the GB stones were
considered to have predated the IV treatment. Of interest,
a similar spirochetal disease (leptospirosis) has
been reported as simulating symptoms of cholecystitis
(32). This may be the first confirmation of a diagnosis
of Lyme disease performed on GB tissue to be published."

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Aniek
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My pancreatic pain is in the front, but I know it can be in the back. In my case, it mirrors a gall bladder. It is pain in my upper right abdomen and it refers into my right shoulder.

My pancreatic enzymes where high when I diagnosed, but they have since lowered to normal. I've read that the enzyme tests can be normal in people with chronic pancreatitis.

--------------------
"When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison

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Tiramisu
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 15082

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Thank you both for your posts.

My PCP doesn't think it's pancreas because he says it would be more severe pain. Mine has leveled off and isn't spiking into severe pain.

I was referred to a general surgeon, who "supposedly" will not just want to operate, but will want to get to the bottom of it before suggesting surgery.

He didn't think a GI doc would be good at this time...We'll see. Maybe Sphincter of Oddi or something...

Posts: 175 | From SW PA | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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