Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
IL1 B and TNF alpha (inflammatory cytokines) ongoing WILL lead to cancer. IL 1 B is really bad (esp.). Do you know the impact of IL 1 B on pancreatic B cells?
Pancreatic cancer...I know a lyme patient who developed this...ultimately. It is one of the worse cancers to face.
"The possession of a genotype resulting in
***increased IL-1b production***
was associated with shortened survival and increased serum CRP level.
This may reflect the role of IL-1b in inducing an acute phase protein response and cachexia in cancer or may be related to changes in tumour phenotye."
Pathogens, toxins, and/or ongoing inflammation do lead to cancer...eventually.
I've even heard that said on TV.
Inflammation IS part of the healing process, but it is supposed to shut off.
When it doesn't...we're in trouble.
Bb triggers ONGOING inflammation.
The Romanians likely gave a LOT of IV Mg on several subsequent days along with the IV abx. And in the case of the 2 Romanian patients with lyme...this was at the OUTSET of lyme for them. It may take even longer if the disease has been present for a long time.
If my math serves me correctly...the drop in Mg levels compared to the initial levels = 33% which needed to be restored.(Romanian abstract).
That is a LOT. It oddly is the amt. in our muscle cells. So we may not use Mg stored in more "vital" cells initially.
I think we didn't have "enough" Mg to spare fast enough.
I often wondered why the huge stores of Mg in our liver weren't used.
Mg-ATP in liver cells may help that critical organ to regenerate as needed.
Once again...Mg IS an "anti-inflammatory" and "anti-histamine", it inactivates HMG Co A reductase and puts the brakes on the cholesterol pathway which IS one of the pathways Bb takes. It IS needed to make healthy antibodies...esp. to Bb's OspB.
I've documented and linked all of this so many times.
Richie...look up the links between IL 1 B and multiple myeloma.
If you need help...I've got files on that. Neighbor's mom and brother died from it. She is closely monitored as there maybe a genetic link.
Every drug we take depletes nutrients ALSO...in addition to those Bb is depleting.
The impact of so many abx. and other drugs on the liver and kidneys which have to "detox" the drugs is astounding. Man...we really stress our "detox" organs.
Not to mention the damage done to our "good bacteria" in our gut.
When we lose the good bacteria, we lose a lot of weight and go into severe depression.
I know...for fact...as it happened to my son following food poisoning...followed by an appendectomy and ANTIBIOTICS post op. He ended up with almost a "sterile" bowel and was very very sick. He couldn't digest any food. Throwing up. Severely depressed. Lost a lot of weight. Became calcium intolerant.
His neurotransmitters and mineral levels (tested) were really messed up. His stool test sent to a lab in Illinois showed virtually no bacteria left in his bowel.
Before anything else...massive probiotics first.
Then slowly rebuilding.
Mind-gut connection. Gotta keep the gut healthy!
There IS more than one way to cure lyme. Rife w/ supp. Mg, Infrared w/ supp. Mg, Benicar in high doses (makes me nervous though), Li helps, gallium maltolate might work someday (new Rx and in trials), the "magic five" might work, HBO - 40 dives minimum + Pycnogenol likely can work as reported to me by a doctor in my town. And yea...colloidal silver though it makes me nervous too...I don't like to use anything we can't rid from our bodies. We need trace amts. of gallium, trace amts. of lithium...so they are more "acceptable" approaches from my point of view.
I think saikosaponin-d might work. A long time ago there was great hope Cat's Claw might work. It helped, but didn't cure...wrong form of a saponin?
Whatever route you decide to take...remember it takes a long time to clear the infection and restore the balance. Do NOT expect immediate results. And above all...keep pumping in lots of good probiotics of various kinds.
[ 08-14-2009, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: Marnie ]
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
Marnie,
I was a patient at the Jefferson Hospital outpatient headache center approx 7-8 yrs ago. They give IV magnesium for migraines.
I was given many doses for many months of IV magnesium and they didn't touch this infection.
Prior to that my LLMD gave me IM magnesium (1,000mg) which I injected myself. I was also on orals antibiotics as well as IV rocephin.
It wasn't until I started antiparasitic herbs and salt/c did I get any relief. I have personally experienced the parasites/worms pictured on lymephotos exit my body into the toilet.
I am a big proponent of immune building nutrition which I have done for yrs, but that alone did not even start to touch this kind of infection.
Parasites lay eggs and larva,(200,000 eggs a day)so there is no way to be sure that just one egg isn't hiding in the intestinal crevices.
GiGi used to post about this a lot and if you do a search here about the parasite/worm connection under her name it will give you more insight.
Then of course, there is bb, mycoplasma, and all of the co-infections.
To use the word "CURE" is just not realistic. Sorry, I just don't believe there is "ONE" magick bullet, I wish to God there was,
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged |
glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
Hi abxnomore,
Are you taking any herbs or anything for maintenance? Are you totally symptom free? Very glad to hear you are well.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged |
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
At Jefferson Hospital were you given DAILY IV doses of MgChloride AND IV abx?
Timing matters. DAILY IV doses of IV MgCl needed on MANY subsequent days...not every other day...not just once a week.
Along with IV abx.
As I said...it may take many many days...weeks...months...to rid this infection if it is longstanding.
The kidneys maintain our pH balance and the amt. of the minerals in our body.
Excess minerals are excreted.
"Antibiotics: Besides destroying
beneficial gut bacteria that aid digestion, protect against infection, and synthesize certain nutrients,
tetracyclines (achromycin, sumycin, tetracap, panmycin), penicillins, ***cephalosporins***, fluoroquinolones, and sulfonamides,
deplete the body of B1, B2, B3, B6, B12, biotin, inositol, vitamin K, iron,
ALL humans have SOME forms of worms/parasites...yet we are not all deathly sick from them!
We also have yeast in our digestive system. It is supposed to be there...just in THAT location.
It is a matter of balance.
Some people believe our too sterile environment - focus on excessive cleanliness - prevents us from mounting adequate immune defense.
Newborns have sterile bowels. It is the antibodies in mom's milk (colostrum) that are needed to protect the infant from diseases until their levels of the beneficial bacteria, yeast, etc. increase and set up "house-keeping".
Destroying all your bowel flora with ongoing "cleanses" is not a good idea IMO.
Esp. on top of what abx. does to the normal flora and nutrients.
Parasites and worms are nothing compared to battling C diff.
There are a lot of "alternative" therapies and testing suggestions that are, IMO, worthless and potentially harmful and do nothing more than make some people very wealthy.
Some DO have merit...but not all.
I hope you don't get a Sputnik capsule ($64) stuck in your throat...as one did:
Have all your silver fillings removed by a trained dentist yet? How much did it cost you?
I have never ever reaped one CENT from my research and/or suggestions and I promise I never will, but others (plural) have "benefitted"...I'll leave it at that.
People come and go...sometimes they re-appear under different names too if they have been kicked off this board.
Maybe I'm gullible, but I believe people who have told me they have RECOVERED COMPLETELY using various methods. They are NOT simply in remission.
A cure IS possible and it is possible via a few very different approaches.
When someone reports something WORKS...I try to figure out WHY and HOW it works and plug it into what I know about Bb.
But I also evaluate the "safety" of that recommendation.
I believe Wildcondor, Bryan, and others who say they have recovered...some as a result of HBO, Rife, high doses of Benicar, etc.
Unfortunately, although Wildcondor did clear Bb (and attributes it to abx. + numerous HBO dives), she ended up with serious bowel issues...which is why I constantly preach to keep pumping in a LOT of probiotics.
Safety first. First Do No Harm...especially to the bowel flora.
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
For newbies...DNP is in a class with cyanide.
It was used to speed up glycolysis...to heat up the cells which DO need "de-icing". It was called intracellular hyperthermia (ICHT).
Different, but infrared maybe doing the same.
But in doing so...this depletes the electrolytes bigtime and this treatment resulted in the cardiac arrest of a lyme patient.
Hence...ICHT is no longer an available treatment. That treatment cost $20,000.
ABXNOMORE...registered this year - according to your profile - were you here under a different name when we were discussing ICHT many moons ago?
Tammi? Who took my advice and had IV Mg prior to treatment. I was really scared for her. I've often wondered how she made out.
I was suprised to see the TX lyme mom back too. Minocycline and then Benicar didn't cure her daughter? Lyme back? Oh, no! I hope not.
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
before deciding to remove all of my mercury amalgams. But fortunately I made the right decision and had my amalgams removed and had IV chelation therapy to remove the many different elevated metals that were in my body. I'm glad I did so; my health improved considerably.
For the first time ever my thyroid levels finally stablized. My alternative doctor told me that until I removed the metals my thyroid mediction dose would constantly need adjusting and, in fact, he was right.
Within six months of completing my chelation therapy my thyroid medication dose stabilized, when in the past it needed constant adjustment.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged |
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Thyroid levels stabilized in another after Li therapy (ongoing) and the need for a thyroid supplement was discontinued.
Food for thought...nothing else.
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
Marnie,
I don't remember how often I was given IV magnesium...I would guess anywhere from 1 x a week to once per month depending on my symptoms.
I specifically remember one incident when I hallucinated for three days from it.
Hypermagnesemia which is the result of magnesium toxicity increases with kidney failure when the kidney loses it's ability to remove excess magnesium.
IV doses of magnesium given daily would be considered VERY toxic. I have never gotton my amalgams removed or swallowed a sputnick capsule. I don't see the relevance here.
Or the point of people making money on protocols, which I never have.
Also I really wasn't referring to the "normal" amount of parasites one could have, but the very dangerous infections of Filarial Worms as pictured on
If you recall Burgdorfer found adult Filarial worms in the original ticks he dissected.
Many people with compromised immune systems also have Ascaris which can grow up to 20" long, Hookworm, Tapeworm, Roundworms, Toxocara, Threadworm etc.
These all can be life threatening and hardly considered benign. As far as destroying bowel flora with "ongoing cleanses" (antiparasitics has to be done in order to get rid of some of these dangerous pathogens.
The flora is easy to replace with a good quality probiotic, and kefir or yogurt. I have not had any yeast infections since I started herbs. I am almost in remission and would never be foolish enough not to continue on a maintenance program.
I have seen many people who think they have gone into remission only to have Lyme rear it's ugly head yrs later. Common sense is a good thing,
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged |
Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
I understand now and that is interesting. As I said there is more than one way to to skin a cat.
In my case, my medication dose has been greatly reduced since dealing with the metals but having lyme for so long, I believe, took it's toll.
I know that I am now well and healthy and my thyroid is stabilized now for many years.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged |
Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
I think it is jumping the gun to use the word "cure" here.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
Not when I have not had any symptoms since my treatment in mid 2003.
The kind of therapy I did was intercellular. The day I left the hospital I felt like a different person....reborn. I am sure I am cured.
Other people's situations, I am sure are different.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged |
Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
Abxnomore,
I didn't read your posts, I was referring to the title of this dicussion, "Drug to Cure Lyme."
I am not sure there is enough evidence to label this a cure, in terms of it halting the disease process. Maybe I am too picky with how I use the word "cure."
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Gael...do you think you had lyme way back when you were given IV Mg once a week for migraines?
Were you given IV Mg in the hospital without kidney function testing?
If Mg worked and if it helped to destroy Bb...perhaps the "toxins" released triggered additional brain inflammation -> hallucinations?
When all proteins are broken down (like those in Bb's outer cell walls) this -> NH3 (ammonia) which is very toxic...esp. to the brain.
Hallucinations can occur also in bipolar...which is treated with Li...the most reactive of the minerals.
Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
Marnie,
I don't know the names you speak of. I didn't find the treatment thru Lymenet. I took the treatment a few months before the program ended.
$20,000 was a drop in the bucket for a two week hospital stay, included in that the cost of a family member to stay with me, and regaining my health.
Prior to that treatment I had spent well over $200,000 on treatments many of which helped but none of which cured. ABX wasn't doing it for me and I saw some of the best LLMD's.
The hospital was fully prepared with constant IV electrolyte drips, IV magnesium and every thing that was required. Not sure why you had to advise anyone on what needed to be done. The entire staff and concept behind ICHT was brilliant. I spoke to some of the cancer patients there too.
Many from different parts of Europe and the States. They were all pleased to have the chance to try ICHT. For me the outcome was great, so I found the entire experience fascinating.
I had heard after my treatment from one of the patients I kept in touch with of that sad tragedy but to my knowledge his death was not due to the DNP. Have you been privy to the autopsy report?
Unless you have, you are making a big assumption here "But in doing so...this depletes the electrolytes bigtime and this treatment resulted in the cardiac arrest of a lyme patient."
My electrolytes were not depleted nor were any of the many other Lyme patients who took the treatment. When I took my treatment, I was told that approximately 23 people had already been treated.
Ultimately everyone dies of cardiac arrest no matter what the cause of death. We all die because our heart stops working.
I received excellent care, 24/7. If I had felt at any time that the clinic was not on top of things, believe me, I would have checked out. I was treated way better than the run around I had gotten in the states for years denying I even had an illness.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged |
Carol in PA
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5338
posted
Marnie said,
quote:I've documented and linked all of this so many times.
I know, and I thank you for your persistance.
It takes a while for even small things to be understood.
Carol
Posts: 6956 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
Marnie,
I have had misdiagnosed Lyme since the 70's..and probably since I was 16. The hallucinations started when I was almost finished with the IV and lasted for 3 days.
If your given something intravenously and you start hallucinating it has to be what was in the IV. I hardly think after receiving an IV of magnesium, I would be deficient at that moment.
When I told the doctor I was hallucinating ( I was angry) he acted totally annoyed and couldn't wait to get me out of there. So, no, they didn't check anything.
Same hospital that sent me home with a completely numb head when i was rushed to the ER via ambulance.
Same neuro that saw the lesions on my brain and told me they were nothing. This is such a crazy disease, who knows what could have triggered the hallucinations.
I have/had severe neuroborrelia since 1983 with head pressure that lasted for 2 yrs.
The cause ultimately is from parasites. I have seen them first hand when the lesions formed and they came through my scalp as mentioned on lymephotos.
Many people here have complained of the same symptoms of movement, crawling under their scalp. Maybe the magnesium made them go crazy..for whatever reason, who knows...that would be my guess,
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged |
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Cure...maybe for some very lucky individuals...I don't think saying "cure" is premature.
Cat's Claw WAS promoted as a possible CURE for many persons (= seronegative for lyme following Cat's Claw treatment):
"However, there is GOOD NEWS! Doctor Williams cites a recent study in the USA in which 28 people suffering from severe LD were treated for 6 months.
14 of the patients received the standard doses of antibiotics.
The other 14 took doses of Cat's Claw, an herb from the Brazilian rainforest with a legendary reputation.
The result? Three of the fourteen who took antibiotics showed slight improvement.
But ALL of the 14 who took Cat's Claw showed "dramatic improvement."
***Indeed, 12 of the 14 were tested at the end of six months, and NO trace of LD remained!"***
"Lyme Disease: Nutraceutical Breakthrough Using TOA-Free Cat's Claw
Study Shows Pentacyclic Alkaloid Chemotype Uncaria tomentosa to be
Effective In Treating Chronic Lyme Disease (Lyme Borreliosis)
INVESTIGATORS: William Lee Cowden, M.D. Hamid Moayad, D.O. Joan Vandergriff, N.D. Luis Romero, M.D., Ph.D. Svetlana Ivanova, M.D., Ph.D.
Control Group: A few patients experienced slight improvement, and the rest remained with no positive change in their clinical condition at the end of study.
Experimental Group: 100% of patients experienced marked clinical improvement;
***85% were seronegative for Lyme disease at the end of study.***
"Quinic acid (QA) esters found in hot water extracts of Uncaria tomentosa (a.k.a. cat's claw) exert anti-inflammatory activity through mechanisms involving inhibition of the pro-inflammatory transcription factor nuclear factor kappa B (NF-kappaB)." PMID: 19674895 (2009)
We identified ***gammadelta T cell agonists*** derived from the condensed tannin fractions of Uncaria tomentosa (Cat's Claw) and Malus domestica (apple)... PMID: 17982035
(Me...an agonist is a HELPER)
80- 85% seronegative for lyme after using Cat's Claw was/is remarkable!!! I'd take those odds if I had lyme!
Gael...it may not have been the Mg that caused the hallucinations, but
the reaction of the pathogens in you to the Mg.
Follow?
What Mg DID TO THEM.
Massive die-off??? And you paid the price?
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
Vermont_Lymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9780
posted
As you know, many many people are seronegative for lyme and yet actually have the disease.
That is because the blood tests are not at all sensitive for picking up lyme, and miss many if not most of the true cases.
So, 85% seronegative means they are seronegative -- it does not say anything about their lyme disease status.
Posts: 2557 | From home | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Did Cowden do a follow-up? All 85%still "cured"/remission?
Anybody know?
Seronegative refers to the absence of the specific antibodies (or other substance) that were being tested for.
We make antibodies to Bb's Osps...outer surface proteins.
Yes...remaining CWD forms are a possibility. No cell wall = no antibodies would be made.
These have to be eliminated via osmotic pressure changes or ultrasound.
Basics of microbiology...step #1 to destroy a gram negative pathogen = destroy the cell walls or prevent them from forming
THEN
step #2...osmotic pressure changes or ultrasound to "finish the job".
I suspect barometric pressure changes also impact CWD forms. There is a change in O2 levels when the barometer drops.
You're a tough bunch to convince ;-)
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
Sometimes people have to find their way on their own and in their own time. There is never a one size fits all, even in medicine.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged |
TO LIFE
Unregistered
posted
Hi Abxnomore,
Please share what treatments got you well. Were you treated for parasites too.
Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
Yes, it was a long while back but they used three different types of herbs for three months and then alternated with three more types of herbs using nine in total. And it took a long time to get rid of them.
They used to test by way of a anascopy where they actually took a swab of the mucosa of the lining of the colon, as the parasites adhere to the wall of the colon and do not always come out with the stool as is used in traditional testing. They
the mucosa was put on a slide and viewed under a microscope. They had some hot shot Dr. from South America analyze the specimens.
The only names I remember are Pau d'Arco, Gozarte and Udarte but there were nine in total that they used. They were all Spanish sounding names and
the product line was Planta Amica but it looks like it is no longer around.
Lots of vitamin supplementation oral and IV, tons of magnesium, IV, Oral and IM, getting rid of heavy metals, addressing adrenals..... Keeping the body alkaline, eating a diet free of junk, basically yeast free.
All the things that a good alternative doctor will do. Acupuncture, as well.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged |
TO LIFE
Unregistered
posted
Dear Abxnomore,
Thanks so much for sharing, I really appreciate it.
glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
Abx,
Thanks for the info. These doctors sound like they knew what they were doing. I agree that it is important to rotate the herbs.
Pau d'Arco is one of the herbs that is in the herbs I am taking. I heard a lot of positive things about the ICHT treatment and how it helped so many people. Too bad it's still not around.
TO LIFE,
It does take a long time to get rid of them. persistence is key,
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged |
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
It shouldn't cost so much to get well...and all out of our own pockets.
Thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars.
Abx (are you James?)..I got a direct e-mail from NB in response to mine (warning of the danger using DNP to speed up glycolysis).
NB's response to me...and I quote, "You could be right."
I swear this is true.
That comment made me very nervous for those who were going overseas to try that $20,000 "cure". It indicated to me NB (doc) wasn't completely confident about the safety of that treatment.
A lot of people do not realize that even WHEN this/another infection IS gone, it takes a very long time to rebalance the system and it is tricky.
It took us 2 years to rebalance my son's mineral and neurotransmitter levels after food poisoning followed by an appendectomy 2 weeks later - with antibiotics post op.
His belly post op was very very black and blue...I didn't realize it then, but it is an indication...no vitamin K...because...
He had virtually NO beneficial bacteria left in his bowel.
Even when we restored the "good guys", it still took TWO YEARS to get everything else back in balance - minerals, neurotransmitters, and to regain the 30 pounds he lost.
Recovery is a very slow process following a major illness.
While I do understand everyone's desire to feel normal once again...right now! We have to be careful. Too much die-off too fast can = sepsis. That is very very very serious. Often deadly.
Read Wildcondor's story. She was lucky to have very supportive parents...emotionally supportive and financially supportive to help her to recover.
Many are not so lucky.
We need a safe, effective and
an affordable cure for this disease.
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
Abxnomore,
What does ICHT stand for?
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
Pinelady
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18524
posted
I know a fella who has been "cured" for 5 years
now. He did it with a 106 fever. On IV
antibiotics. I'm not ready to go Chernobyl, but
it could get there.
Back in 04 they did not know as much about this as
they do now and I find it hard to believe anyone
survived it. Does anyone have any idea what the
presenter at the IDSA Hearing was talking about
when she answered one of the Panel Members with=
"Some things are in the Works?"
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged |
Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
He is lucky he did survive but kudos to him.
Inducing a fever like that is very dangerous.
No, I have no idea what they were referring to.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged |
Pinelady
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18524
posted
It wasn't intentional. They did not know any
better. Meaning they did not know what this disease
does to the body like they do now. Or it may have
been the IDS who treated him did not know. I
think you can die from the bug as easily as you
can from some treatments if you don't know what
this cause and effect does to us. You would be
surprised how many people do not like learning
anatomy and physiology. But with this disease it
is the utmost necessity. Because of the way it
behaves. Like the air hunger we get is caused by
the damaged cells not able to pick up and
exchange the O2. We got to have good cells to
fight this.
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged |
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
You and I have entirely different points of view re: NB
No one should have to pay that kind of money out of pocket (and much much more) to get good, safe, effective medical treatment from reputable doctors associated with reputable institutions.
I can't believe we're still discussing this banned treatment which did NOT work for everyone, but only a very few.
But heating the cells...infrared/ Rife (using sound waves to heat)over time does seem to work in conjunction with restoring Mg levels. Other treatments make work as well...HBO with pycnogenol, the "magic five" (perhaps), IV Mg AND IV abx given for an extended time, etc.
For sure...Bb does trigger the cells to become "cold" and the "de-icers" NaCl and CaCl go in...and out. Bb looks to absolutely need Na and Ca.
When in fact, MgCl is also a "de-icer", but is not as reactive a mineral as Na and Ca.
Ketones...is that the answer? Burning fat...releasing ketones (which can sub for glucose to supply energy for our brains).
Abxnomore...I don't begrudge you getting well - not at all!
I do have tremendous sympathy for those who cannot afford all of the very expensive treatments that you and others say must be done in order to recover.
That list is huge...infrared, Rife, HBO, numerous herbs and supplements, removal of fillings, chelations, etc....all very very expensive.
This has to be very disheartening news for those here who are struggling emotionally, physically and financially.
I am surprised that someone who has recovered from lyme and knows so much about the various treatments and supplements as you do (which amazes me!)suddenly appears on this board this year and has so many postings so fast.
Most people who have recovered no longer post here. They get on with life.
So while I truly appreciate your very knowledgeable posts, your being here surprises me.
Not many people freely give of their time as you have.
Am I suspicious...well, ya...a little.
Many of us on this board are still looking for the safest, most effective and
affordable treatment to CURE this disease, not to simply put it in remission.
Understanding what Bb does to us, what genes it has, what pathways it takes helps us to figure out ways to stop it.
It does appear to be a 2 step process...taming down the immune system (various ways to do that) WHILE hitting Bb.
We have to keep in mind that just destroying the cell walls isn't enough. We've got CWD forms to contend with BEFORE "he" has a chance to rebuild them.
Whatever treatment plan of action one chooses (there are several)... stick with it and
keep the level of probiotics up.
"A body in balance has no disease." - Rife.
Getting the body back in balance when Bb is impacting so many nutrients and is disarming our own defense cells is the tough part.
[ 08-15-2009, 04:38 AM: Message edited by: Marnie ]
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Pinelady: I know a fella who has been "cured" for 5 years
now. He did it with a 106 fever. On IV
antibiotics.
It is fact that lots of stuff plain die at 106. Unfortunately we cannot survive that temperature for long either .
In fact there is thermal regulation which tries to keep body temperature below 41.2 C, if its broken you are on the way to serious trouble
But many people can go long with fevers up to (104ish). - I personally had fever up that high for 2 weeks ( they were saying it was "flu" -turned out it was pneumonia)
Posts: 856 | From MA | Registered: Jul 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Abxnomore: Marnie, Frankly, I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish by posting information that very few can understand and that practically very few can apply to their daily lives. You would truly be serving our members by posting information that everyone could understand but taking the time to write your posts in a manner that is comprehensible to all.
Is it fair to post information, especially with the subject lines you use, that leaves most of the members at a loss to understand it? It seems like a tease to me, almost cruel when so many are struggling so hard looking for the way to get well.
I agree with this. If you have something to share Marnie, it would be nice if you shared it in a way that we could all understand. As it is, I have no idea what any of your posts are trying to say. I long ago stopped trying to follow along, stopped trying to hit the links and look up studies and figure things out, because that didn't seem to get me any closer to real meaning.
Maybe I'm just dense. I wouldn't doubt that. But I don't understand why you can't lay out your theories simply for all to understand. Then we could have reasonable discussion of the merits and dangers. But if no one can understand what you're saying, discussion is meaningless.
ABX, I'm so happy to hear that you are well. I've often wondered what happened to those ICHT patients (the discussion on these pages devolved into a circus), and am glad to know that some had lasting benefets. That's wonderful news.
Posts: 845 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
The title of this topic absolutely ticks me off. Furthermore, this is the worst type of pseudo science.
For those who lack the general background to understand these topics, please quit kicking yourselves for inability to understand what almost always amounts to nothing more than nonsense.
For those who fail to notice, Marnie is cutting and pasting from other sources, which she seldom even credits. Unfortunately, it is easy to assume it some how applies because it sounds scientific, especially when it's strung together.
Nevertheless, Marnie tends to cut and past things together in a nonsensical fashion that demonstrates a lack of background with any the regard to basic chemistry, biology and biochemistry.
It might cut down on a lot of misleading information if the moderators here required Marnie to cite all of her sources so patients who wish to follow the links could readily ascertain whether or not her wild hypotheses are even remotely based on research that is in any way applicable to the topic of Lyme disease, or to the topics she creates. Also, that type of requirement would at least curb much of her blatant plagiarism.
I used to try to counter her mistakes and correct them, but it got to be a huge waste of time because she just doesn't argue logically and she out posts anyone who dares argue logically with utterly inapplicable nonsense, which is strung together in a way only Marnie can.
There are very few medical discussion forums where she would have been permitted to behave this way. I still can't fathom why it's been allowed to continue here for so many years. It may be because she has run off, or simply exhausted those with the scientific background to attempt to counter her.
It frightens me to think that some patients take her posts seriously or that they would consider printing this in an attempt to make their doctors read it. That she and others actually seem to believe there are scientists lurking here, who read her topics in hopes of learning from her, is even more disturbing because these types of posts discredit the serious topic of Lyme disease and all of the patients who suffer with it.
While I wish she would quit posting nonsense, I would be happy if she were required to give citations and links for the real science that she is borrowing and stringing together. At least that would stop some of the plagiarism.
edited to say: I appreciate the fact that Marnie went back in and added links and citations to her post. I hope she will continue to do that each and everytime she cites or quotes a source.
[ 08-15-2009, 02:32 PM: Message edited by: Lonestartick ]
Posts: 487 | From USA | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged |
richedie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14689
posted
Has any of this worked for you guys?
-------------------- Mepron/Zith/Ceftin Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse. Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin. Period of Levaquin and Ceftin. Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin. Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin. Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia Plaquenil/Biaxin Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008
| IP: Logged |
AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
There's mention of Bupleurum closer to the end of the slides, I'm not sure what page.
I know I've read about Bupleurum SOMEWHERE. I've been checking the suplements that I have &trying to locate info online. It's making me NUTS that I can't remember where I had seen it.
I don't know if it was Zhang, Buhner, one of my other reference books or in one of the supplements that I have on hand.
I just hate when this happens!
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
Wow, this thread took a lot of turns. I'm going to keep quiet. lol.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
ping
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6974
posted
quote:Originally posted by Lonestartick: The title of this topic absolutely ticks me off. Furthermore, this is the worst type of pseudo science.
It frightens me to think that some patients take her posts seriously or that they would consider printing this in an attempt to make their doctors read it. That she and others actually seem to believe there are scientists lurking here, who read her topics in hopes of learning from her, is even more disturbing because these types of posts discredit the serious topic of Lyme disease and all of the patients who suffer with it.
THANK YOU, Lonestartick!
It is not brilliance and medical genius being displayed here by some, but an ego trip, which we can all do without.
I agree there are certainly no bonafide, scientific researchers lurking on this site, hoping that Marnie, or anyone else will provide a breakthrough that they didn't think of first. Indeed, it does present a very bad impression of the Lyme community as a whole.
The best impression that we can give to those looking in and to each other is SUPPORT! Suggestions and sharing of experiences are good, but we are spinning our wheels without true support.
If you want to be truly supportive, don't forget those State and National Lyme Bills, etc. that are now in the works. Make your voice heard!
ping "We are more than containers for Lyme"
-------------------- ping "We are more than containers for Lyme" Posts: 1302 | From Back in TX again | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
If you dont like marnies posting dont read it?
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
Heavens!
Can we not just accept that we are all trying our best here in our own way? Isn't it wonderful that we DO approach fighting these diseases from various perspectives?
It is painfully obvious that not one method will work for all... so shouldn't it be painfully obvious that we need to keep exploring many methods? And not only exploring... but sharing those thoughts with others along the way?
I'm just SO grateful to each of you who have blazed the trail for the rest of us and have been willing to share your healing journeys.
Please, lets not waste our limited energy trying to 'shoot the messenger'... ANY messenger.
............
"The roads are different, but the goal is one. When people reach the goal, all those who yelled at each other along the road, 'You are wrong!' or 'You are a blasphemer!' forget all possible differences. There, all hearts sing in unison." - Rumi
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
I'm going to keep quiet. lol.
Printer-friendly view of this topic