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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » My Fry Smear (Pic) and Some Questions

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Author Topic: My Fry Smear (Pic) and Some Questions
Lymeorsomething
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 -

(This is only a part of the original photo)

So my smear basically said few cocobacilli adherent to erythrocytes...suggestive of hemobartonella or hemoplasma....it doesn't appear be to the mystery protozoa according to the notation...

Questions:

Has anyone had a similar slide? And what worked treatment wise?

Also has anyone had a clear (negative) slide result from Fry? They seem to return a lot of positives (I did not test positive for Bart via standard blood testing).

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seekhelp
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Never heard of a negative slide yet here. [Smile]
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Lymeorsomething
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That's what I fear, Seek. Pictures are tantalizing but I'd like to see some negative controls so-to-speak...

The yellow arrow is the Fry marker, which I have to say looks like a legitimate finding. The other ones I'm not so sure. My doc was marking stuff like a crazy person [Smile]

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sutherngrl
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If there is never a negative slide from this place, then does that mean that these are just normal cells that all people likely have, or does every person on the planet have the same illness???

Where are the people that had Fry smears with negative results?

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kitty9309
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quote:
Originally posted by cottonbrain:
what are those two weird ring-shaped dark objects on the top right? one is stand-alone (?) and one looks like it's on the cell. artifact?

Probable degraded platelets. One is overlaying the red cell.

see here:

http://www.mc.vanderbilt.edu/histology/labmanual2002/labsection2/Blood_hematopoiesis03.htm

figure 29

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Lymeorsomething
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Thanks for that example, Kitty. It's interesting because your example seems to have the same finding (yellow arrow) as my smear yet there is no mention to its implication...

What's the deal with the cells resembling the chipped away tires of the Flintstones' car? [Smile]

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Lymeorsomething
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Up..anyone else with thoughts on Fry and my results here? Thanks...

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kitty9309
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They can be artifacts due to the blood drying on the slide.

They are called Echinocytes. They CAN have significance, though.

see here:

http://www.medialabinc.net/spg28876/echinocytes_burr_cells.aspx

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kitty9309
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lymeorsomething:
[QB] Thanks for that example, Kitty. It's interesting because your example seems to have the same finding (yellow arrow) as my smear yet there is no mention to its implication..."

They remind me of Howell Jolly Bodies:

http://www.wadsworth.org/chemheme/heme/cytocritique/slide_005_howell-jolly_bod.htm

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Lymeorsomething
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Thanks again. The links were very helpful. It doesn't increase my comfort level with Fry knowing these results may be inconsequential.

Most of the Howell Jolly Bodies I've seen seem to be aligned inside the cell rather than attached to it but I suppose it's possible that it is simply an innocuous Howell Jolly Body...

I guess I'll have to get my own 'scope in action [Smile]

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seekhelp
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Still not one poster says they had a negative test..
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JamesNYC
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Mine looked almost the same.

James

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Lymeorsomething
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Thanks James. I'm seeing your doc by the way if I interpreted some of your posts correctly...

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lou
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Do a search in the archives, this has been discussed many times, and people don't usually want to keep repeating themselves. So, you may find more answers than you get on this thread.
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kitty9309
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Fry called my first test positive, but my doc and I think the comment was in error.

There were only a few purple dots on the outside of the cell and there wasn't even arrows as it indicated there should be.

However, the second smear, after treating Lyme with Mino to start, was very different.

I had many intracellular coccobacilli in rings noted.

This was interesting, b/c in the time between the 2 tests- about 4 months- I began to have new symptoms that were not obvious before.

My doc believes it was the Bartonella (confirmed elsewhere) coming foreward (for lack of better wording). Foot pain and muscle pain, in addition to my ever present dizziness.

So... I think there are negative tests out there and I believe my second test is picking up the Bartonella that my serology for Bart confirmed.

The Bart strain I have is Bartonella vinsonii berkhoffii. NC State identified it from blood taken at the same time as the second Fry smear.

I think Fry is seeing something, but his methods of reporting leave something to be desired.

As a microbiologist (when I can work), we never report something so vague on a final report.

Just my opinion.

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Lymeorsomething
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Thanks Kitty.

Lou, it's a common practice on this board to repeat information. I don't see how combing the archives is going to get me feedback on my blood smear...

Where are you for the endless diatribes about parasites?

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Annelet
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I had a negative blood film from Fry Labs....but my LLMD has treated me for Bartonella on clinical grounds.

Anne

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galehane
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Kitty

Thank you very very much for your post.
I agree with your comments on Fry, and I have no doubt that the dots on the erothrocytes in general have nothing to do with organisms/pathogenes (it might have when confirmed by pcr as the haemoplasmas in china)

It it surprising with the actual findings inside the erothrocytes, which is supposed to be the "niche " of Bartonellas.
I think that the Bartonellas may be present and visible by microscopey like the motile organisms commented on by LymeMD in his blog (observed in Clongen-lab).

What does this mean?I believe that the Bartonellas might have been there outside the erothrocytes at the time of the first smear.Why would therapy with something that is supposed to kill(if they can be killed by anything at all) the Bartonellas "open the way for their prescense"?
In case you have had positive effects from therapy it would be interesting to hear about it.

Gale

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kitty9309
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Gale-

I have just started Rifampin for my Bart. I go to the full dose on Saturday.

My foot pain in the am is much less for the last week, so maybe it is related?? We'll see.

The Mino is not usually rx'd Bartonella in the chronic form. The theory there was that the Mino supressed some of the Lyme.

Some bacteria are supposedly able to exert an influence over other and keep them in check. I'd have to pull up some references there.

The life cycle of bart does include a brief stay on the rdge of the RBC before it enters the cell, so it could be like a snapshot in time...?? Just a guess.

I'll have more to say after my visit to doc in 2 weeks and once I have been on the full Rifampin dose for a while.

Somethings gotta give here regarding this Fry smear. I was luck enough to have a positive smear and a Bart serology to back it up, if that is really what we are seeing.

[ 08-21-2009, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: kitty9309 ]

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lou
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quote:
Lou, it's a common practice on this board to repeat information. I don't see how combing the archives is going to get me feedback on my blood smear...

Where are you for the endless diatribes about parasites?

Not clear why it is useless to suggest looking in the archives for similar questions. I frequently use the archives, because many more replies are available.

What is the problem here, lymeorsomething? That was a crabby reply.

It was a long time before I even knew there was such a thing as a search of archives on lymenet, brain not functioning right, and many newbies may be in the same situation. Yes, you may not be a newby, but posting on a public forum is speaking to a lot of people.

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Lymeorsomething
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Lou, I apologize for the short reply, but it actually took a considerable amount of my already limited energy after a work day to find and setup my scanner just to post that slide.

I don't think that I was being unreasonable in bumping it up once. I've rarely if ever done that.

I was simply looking for specific feedback, which would not be found in the archives.

I've been riding the boards here for two years or so and have rarely seen posts redirected to the archives.

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efsd25
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Nice slide,thanks for posting it! My Fry smear was similar, and it was corroborated by postive Bart serology.
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MarsyNY
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This is still such a gray area,I think everyone should post these like they do with their IgeneX results for clarification. The problem is no one seems to get any clarification on "what this is"

Actually that last post about the bartonella could be helpful.

[ 08-23-2009, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: MarsyNY ]

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NickL
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Although the statement "no one seems to get a negative result from Fry labs" is suggestive, it's incorrect to conclude that their tests are overly sensitive. It's likely that only people with positive results post news here asking for clarification.
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ctlyme
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I also had a negative slide from Fry.

Its was a couple years ago and i had just gone thru a short round of abx that may be effective against Bart so not sure of the accuaracy.

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bschao
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Lymeorsomething,

Is that the only blood smear you had done. I had 2 done. The one you showed, and the DNA staining one. Just wondering.

Sherrie [hi]

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Lymeorsomething
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Yes, just that one Sherrie. What kind of results did you have? I have not heard of the DNA slide...sounds interesting.

I just ran a slide through LapCorp and of course they found nothing [Smile]

I'm very skeptical when it comes to these tests but I will say that Rifampin and Levaquin did make me feel better.

I still believe lyme is my central issue though. The evidence I've gathered points in that direction...

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