Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
My prediction came true .. so please listen up .. else YOU may contribute to this sort of stuff, accidently, and cut your nose off to spite your face.
And in the process, cut MY nose off too!
They are using YOUR data (watch those neuro-psych exams PLEASE) to not only deny YOU help (insurance LOVES this stuff)..
But they are putting your data together with other data from innocent victims to try to make the thin evidence appear universal and make themselves look credible.
Using YOU and your info gives them another gem from the quack quack society... to be used against us all.
Note the association with the Robert Wood Johnson Duck Motel in NJ....
And adding whip cream to the pie... old Lenny Seagall is an author.
And who funded this study? The NIH, of course.
American Journal of Medicine
Official Journal of the Association of Professors of Medicine
Psychiatric Comorbidity and Other Psychological Factors in Patients with ``Chronic Lyme Disease''
Afton L. Hassett, PsyDab, Diane C. Radvanski, MSa, Steven Buyske, PhDc, Shantal V. Savage, BAa, Leonard H. Sigal, MDabdef
Abstract Background
There is no evidence of current or previous Borrelia burgdorferi infection in most patients evaluated at university-based Lyme disease referral centers.
Instead, psychological factors likely exacerbate the persistent diffuse symptoms or ``Chronic Multisymptom Illness'' (CMI) incorrectly ascribed to an ongoing chronic infection with B. burgdorferi.
The objective of this study was to assess the medical and psychiatric status of such patients and compare these findings to those from patients without CMI.
Methods
There were 240 consecutive patients who underwent medical evaluation and were screened for clinical disorders (eg, depression and anxiety) with diagnoses confirmed by structured clinical interviews at an academic Lyme disease referral center in New Jersey.
Personality disorders, catastrophizing, and negative and positive affect also were evaluated, and all factors were compared between groups and with functional outcomes.
Results
Of our sample, 60.4% had symptoms that could not be explained by current Lyme disease or another medical condition other than CMI.
After adjusting for age and sex, clinical disorders were more common in CMI than in the comparison group **, but personality disorders were not significantly more common.
CMI patients had higher negative affect, lower positive affect, and a greater tendency to catastrophize pain ** than did the comparison group.
Except for personality disorders, all psychological factors were related to worse functioning. Our explanatory model based on these factors was confirmed.
Conclusions
Psychiatric comorbidity and other psychological factors are prominent in the presentation and outcome of some patients who inaccurately ascribe longstanding symptoms to ``chronic Lyme disease.''
....... blah blah blah.....
Leonard H. Sigal, MD, Senior Author: Dr. Sigal is the Director of the Pharmaceutical Research Institute at Bristol-Myers Squibb (BMS); however, this study was not funded by BMS, and Dr. Sigal does not stand to gain financially by the results reported herein.
Authorship: All authors had access to the data and a meaningful role in writing this manuscript.
seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
Did Wormser approve it in the name of 'good science' Tincup? Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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ping
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6974
posted
Oh, I believe it! I also wish people would NOT participate in these sorts of "surveys", unless they know exactly who (or what) is behind it. Didn't their Mama make it clear, "Don't talk to strangers"?!
How sad. You're right Tincup. There went a snip off the end of our noses!
ping "We are more than containers for Lyme"
-------------------- ping "We are more than containers for Lyme" Posts: 1302 | From Back in TX again | Registered: Mar 2005
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Bugg
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8095
posted
How do we know Dr. Sigal doesn't stand to gain something by the results of this study?
Without adequate data/testing, how can anyone definitvely say that patients are INACCURATELY ascribing their symptoms to an ongoing infection. Even IF the infection is not "active", there could still be residual immune system dysfuction, neurological dysfunction..inflammation...etc that can create a high level of pain and fatigue which OF COURSE impacts the psychological health of the patient...
This is tantamount to saying that chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia must be brought on by the patient through psychological dysfunction because there are no tests which could otherwise prove definitve causations for the duration and severity of their conditions....
This is such fallacious reasoning....disgusting....
Posts: 1155 | From Southeast | Registered: Oct 2005
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
HA Ping!
You said.. "Didn't their Mama make it clear, "Don't talk to strangers"?"
Yes... and also note... insurance companies and these "academic centers" work together to save insurance companies $$$.
Ho Ho Hopkins is a perfect example of that... to name one.
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Bugg..
Exactly!
You said..
"This is tantamount to saying that chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia must be brought on by the patient through psychological dysfunction because there are no tests which could otherwise prove definitve causations for the duration and severity of their conditions...."
And they are including a lot of CFS and Fibro in their latest writings... heaping us all together.
So according to them, all of us are a bunch of nuts.
That helps THEM for all the misdiagnosed people (now suffering and disabled) they've sent through without proper treatment and a proper diagnosis.
The ONLY thing these ducks are actually experts in, is called...
ping
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6974
posted
You betcha, TC! If you noticed Bugg(sy) (Sigal?!) comment above about, "How do we know he (Dr.) doesn't stand to gain something from the results of this study?"
DARN TOOTIN' he has something to gain!!!
ping "We are more than containers for Lyme"
-------------------- ping "We are more than containers for Lyme" Posts: 1302 | From Back in TX again | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
I like the part about these patients have a greater tendency to catastrophize pain. How do they know these patients don't have more pain?
You would think a reasonable person would know that you can't tell how much pain a person has but obviously, they think they can.
Posts: 984 | From US | Registered: Dec 2007
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AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
Just one of my latest thoughts.....
Does Bristol-Meyers Squib make anything that treats depression or other psychiatric manifestations, Irritable Bowel Syndrome, pain,......? I could go on, but why bother?
Does he have any interest in seeing people REMAIN infected & misdiagnosed?
Hmmmm.....let me see.... Can I have a mallet that will hit HIM in the head instead?
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
"You're not sick, you're just nuts"
Who says I can't be both? Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
This kind of thing gets done a lot - turning physical problems into psychological ones.
It was done to me through a major university's pain clinic.
I'm not saying we don't have psychological challenges - but we wouldn't have them without these physical infections.
Aren't there plenty of papers by folks like Bransfield, Fallon, Sher etc about these diseases having psychological impacts?
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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posted
I haven't read the actual study, but wonder who the comparison group is?
Sure, people who live with unrelenting pain, daily, possibly permanently, are going to view it as catastrophic much more than those who don't... I wonder if the comparison group suffered chronic pain, and if so, how severe?
Most of us live with levels of pain that most people can't even fathom living with for a day or two.
-------------------- "Looks like freedom but it feels like death.. It's something in between, I guess"
Leonard Cohen, from the song "Closing Time" Posts: 822 | From California | Registered: Jan 2006
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Very sad, indeed. Criminal, actually. And so incorrect. There is evidence of chronic infection of many kinds.
Not wanting to start a debate, but just offering something that comes to mind:
However, this kind of misperception is also why I think it is important for us to NOT refer to ourselves as "Lymies" - or use some of "fluffy" terms to describe symptoms if we can find a better word. It is not sweet or cute and what can be endearing here may look like a club to outsiders. Cancer patients do not call the selves "Cancies" - we are all dealing with serious matters and dignity is vital.
(I've tried for many sentences to say exactly what I mean by my next thought here - or an example but all I can think of is "brain fog" - which, to me, and most LLMDs, is perfectly acceptable.
To non-LLMDs, however, even that can be a fluffy term. I'm not saying use the full medical term but just to be very careful how to present oneself - which is very hard when "my adrenals are just fried" and I'm "toast" or noise "sends me to the moon" and I'm "blown out of the woods by someone's perfume."
These are all ways I have used to explain myself many times, sometimes, to make light and cover my own embarrassment and to explain my failure to achieve - but these "fluffy" terms have been ridiculed by doctors in the past and have pretty much "torched" any ray of truth in some files.
Less work, though, than having to think of how to present ourselves so that non-LLMDs will understand (they NEVER will) - well, let's just stop paying them for their ignorance. I understand, though, that the neuro-psych tests are often required and done by non-LLMDs.
Might someone with the AFLCIO - no that's not it - some civil liberty / rights group - be able to help lyme patients be assessed only by LL doctors?
Do HIV patients have to rely on reports from doctors who know nothing about HIV, etc.?
Pinelady
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18524
posted
All those people the government left sick and dying
and passing syphilis in the Tuskegee Experiments
had left me with a bitter hope of ever getting
justice from government agencies. I know this is
the way they see it too. They can get away with it.
People have for years. Pittsburgh is just a
beginning.
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
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Cass A
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11134
posted
Dear Friends,
This is just another example of the psychiatric-pharma cartel that is interested in selling EXPENSIVE PSYCHOTROPIC DRUGS that don't treat the actual physical illnesses people have.
Insurance covers these--monthly costs about $300 or more EACH!!!!
And, since psych "diagnoses" don't need ANY physical test, well, it's open season!!
In actual fact, according to a thorough study funded by the State of California, over 36% of the people "diagnosed" with "psychiatric disorders" have an active, important medical disease state that is MISSED by the psychiatrist!!!
Another interesting factor is that once you're in the public mental health system, your life expectancy is 25 YEARS LESS than the population average. That's YEARS, not months.
Best,
Cass A
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
That is what the Soviets used to do with "dissidents," people who did not like government practices--called 'em nuts and put them away, forced to take psych meds.
Does the American Journal of Medicine print any decent articles or just crap like this? Apparently peer review is not a perfect system.
And Sigal has been gone from the university for years. What is the current status of the other authors? It is my understanding that this kind of thing no longer occurs there because the personnel have changed. How old is this data? Is this even data they are using? Anyone who thinks the medical literature is pure only has to see this kind of thing in print.
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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Can I have a mallet that will hit HIM in the head instead?
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