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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Do not eat bad fruit. This is not a good thing.

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Author Topic: Do not eat bad fruit. This is not a good thing.
Truthfinder
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The short version of this is that I ate a few bites of over-ripe kiwi fruit the other day that made me quite ill, and not in a way that I expected. Perhaps even stranger is that it wasn't easy to tell that the fruit had `gone bad'.

I thought it must have been some kind of mold, but maybe it wasn't mold at all but some other organism that can get started in over-ripe fruit. Maybe somebody can shed some light who has had a similar experience.

I only ate a small amount of this kiwi before I decided it wasn't quite right and I threw it out. But it was enough.

The symptoms were amazing. About 2 hours after I ate 3 small slices of this evil kiwi, I started getting this very weak, almost shaky feeling. (Probably very similar to when your blood sugar drops too low or your adrenal gland isn't regulating properly.) There was also this kind of `buzzing' in my body, as if I'd had too much caffeine.

It just kept getting worse, but wasn't so bad that I felt like I couldn't walk; I just had to be careful when I did. I stayed close to the walls or furniture in case I lost my balance or had to go down to the floor. So, I went into the bedroom to lie down which didn't really help but didn't make it any worse, either.

After about 1/2 hour of that, I abruptly started feeling hot and then sweat suddenly started pouring out of me. It was like every pore in my skin was flowing water. I swear even the insides of my ears were sweating That went on for maybe another 1/2 hour.

Then, just as suddenly as the sweating started, the chills came. One minute I'm hot and the next minute I have these teeth-rattling chills that go right into my bones. And like the sweats, that went on for maybe another 1/2 hour.

I was a little worried at that point. I was not doing well and a little concerned that I would get too sick or too weak to try to help myself. (I really hate that.) And I kept thinking that I must be getting the flu or something. But to get so sick, so fast like that? That just didn't seem to fit somehow.

Well, I learned awhile back from a very smart person to think back to what I was doing before the symptoms started. And that's when I remembered the kiwi fruit. I immediately knew that was the culprit and yet it didn't seem to fit the more common symptoms of `food poisoning' that I'm familiar with - nausea, GI and bowel disturbances. I hadn't had any of that.

To the best of my knowledge, I've never had `food poisoning' so this is all new to me.

About the sneaky, offending kiwi fruit: I admit that I tend to let kiwis get a little bit over-ripe because I don't like them sour and I don't like them too hard. This kiwi had been around awhile, but I sniffed it and checked it again after I peeled it. It was a little bit too soft but certainly not falling apart or anything. But after taking 3 bites, I knew it didn't taste quite right; not nasty, just not normal.

I sniffed it again and FINALLY, after much sniffing, I could detect a very slight ALCOHOL smell. But certainly not rotten or that moldy smell like some fruit will get. Just this light smell of alcohol. When I took the fruit over into bright light, I could see a very subtle orange-ish cast to the flesh. So, I pitched it and went about my business. Two hours later, it was like I had Malaria or something!

It all turned out fine, I'm happy to report. The symptoms would get better, then start coming back again - after 8 hours or so I even started getting some signs that my bowels might get involved. So I got out my trusty homeopathic books, found a remedy that seemed to fit, and sure enough - one dose stopped all nasty reactions. I think I only needed 1 more dose after that, maybe 2.

(And FYI, the remedy that I chose that fit the symptoms was Cinchona - and cinchona bark is what they make quinine out of for MALARIA. The weakness, the sweats, the chills - yes, it certainly was similar to Malaria!)

So, what the heck was in that fruit? Was this a normal `food poisoning' reaction?

I'm still going to let my kiwis get really ripe before I eat them, but I'll be a lot more careful in the future. This one snuck right by me and it was a little more than I bargained for.

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�.

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AliG
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I was trying to figure out what may have caused this.

http://jxb.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/57/14/3825

Google search - overripe kiwifruit - pubmed

What kind of meds are you on? Any that would interact with alcohol?

I wonder if it could have to do with the enzymes involved in ripening?

If the fruit was sealed, would it have been possible for an organism to get in there?

--------------------
Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner.

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emla999/Lyme
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Tracy,

Maybe your kiwi fruit was contaminated by some kind of mycotoxin? I say this because the smell of alcohol on your kiwi fruit makes me think of mycotoxins because alcohol is actually a mycotoxin and over ripe fruits can sometimes be contaminated with mycotoxins.


For example the mycotoxin, PATULIN, is sometimes found in apple juice that was made from over ripe apples.

http://www.foodsciencecentral.com/fsc/ixid15202

http://patulin.noneto.com/6.htm


Mycotoxins have even been found in canned soup.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15938687


Just a thought.

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seibertneurolyme
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Read the thread on hypoglycemia. This sounds very similar to hubby's hypoglcemia attacks. He has not had these for 6 or 7 years, but they started again recently. We think they are caused by the tindamax he just started.

Hubby has very severe sweating, tremors, myoclonus and nausea/dry heaves with his hypoglcemia. At first we thought the sweats were maybe from bartonella, BLO, or mycoplasma or maybe some sort of cholinergic reaction. But when nothing seemed to help I tried IV D5W -- 20 or 30 cc's stopped all the symptoms within 5 minutes. This has happened 3 times within the last few days, so I don't think it is coincidence.

This is not medical advice, just my opinion based on hubby's experiences.

When hubby had these attacks when he first got sick and was undiagnosed he did a glucose tolerance test. He started shaking when his insulin levels were the highest I think and passed out when the glucose levels started falling if I remember correctly.

I used to have a chart a doc gave me that showed a connection between the different organs and when the hypoglcemia symptoms showed up.

Bea Seibert

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Jin
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Dear Truthfinder,
I agree with emla999 that a mycotoxin was involved. That orange coloring may be Penicillium.
You have that in your house, right? You mentioned on another thread you had a bunch of molds identified. Do I recall correctly? The other two were Cladosporium and Stachbotrys.

Thank you for sharing your remedy. That will be helpful to many. The alcohol smell or sometimes even an ammonia odor can be present when mold is on something. I have noticed this when cleaning out the fridge. I was fortunate that I was able to spit out the moldy blueberry I had put in my mouth last summer.

You are right about those symptoms not matching the usual food-borne illness. My poor aunt called today and Mom had to take her some Promethazine because she got food poisoning after they went out to lunch. She had thrown up fifteen times already! I am not so sure she should not go to the emergency room. I will call later today and check on her.

I really do think being exposed to toxic mold dulls some people's senses. My parents cannot smell mold and other things like I can. The other day, I was washing my hands when I noticed the overwhelming smell of mold on the hand towel. Mom
and Dad did not smell it, and it was overpowering!
Even worse, the towel had only been there for a few days.

Dear seibertneurolyme,
My hypoglycemia tends to cause or add to the symptoms you describe. The other day, I was outside and felt like I was falling to one side. I came in and checked my glucose, and it was down to 61. I have to eat an unbelievable amount of carbs to get my glucose up to 80. This is why I have been unable to do the Candida Diet.

Sincerely,
Jin

--------------------
Celiac Disease (2007)
Candida Overgrowth (2006)
Thyroid Disease (2004)
Gallbladder Disease (removed- 2003)
Fibromyalgia (2001)
Ovarian Cysts (5 in less than 10 months - 2000)
Anemia (2000)
IBS (1999)
Acid Reflux (1999)

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springshowers
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I would agree with toxic issue of some kind.
After listening to a Video of Dr. Hulda Clark the other day she was saying that bacterias and fungus and such that cause cancer are linked to certain fruits and reside right under the peel. She was adimate that we all peel our fruits and some vegetables. Things such as apples , pears and carrots were mentioned but she said to peel all fruits.

I know you said you peel it but if it was that ripe then those toxins could have grown deeper and it ended up being eaten by you.

I always thought peels has so much to offer and did not want to peel my fruits or veggies but washed very well.

Now I peel.. She challenges you to peel everything and see how you feel and she says you will be amazed. I only read this about two weeks ago so I can not report but it sure got me thinking.

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treepatrol
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Any time you think you ate something bad if you cant throw it up eat a big meal it will give your body time to set up a attack less absorbed with all the other food in there.

Fungus alchohols released when fruit is being broken down.
Could have also been contaminated with something when in doubt throw out.

Acidopholis and yogurt in large doses will starve the bad things out

[ 09-22-2009, 08:38 AM: Message edited by: treepatrol ]

--------------------
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.

Newbie Links

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AliG
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I believe that activated charcoal is also good for adsorption of toxins in the digestive tract.

--------------------
Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner.

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Truthfinder
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Everyone has made some intriguing suggestions - many thanks to all. I've been busy running down some of the links provided, and doing some more Googling myself.

Ali, I should have mentioned that I am not on any medications at all, and I haven't been on any for quite some time. I've been on a specific herbal + homeopathic `protocol' for over a month. The most recent adjustment - which was very slight - was over a week before this happened. And everything I'm taking has tested well for me with an electro-dermal screening-type machine.

The enzyme idea is pretty interesting because it turns out that kiwi fruit is like pineapple - because of the proteolytic enzymes in those fruits, they can't be added to jello; doing so will cause the gelatin to remain in the liquid state even after prolonged refrigeration. That's because these enzymes `digest' or `denature' the protein molecules in the gelatin. Hmmm. Could be some clues there.

The mycotoxin idea certainly fits the symptoms, and I'm still running down some of those links you provided, emla. And some food bacteria produce other types of toxins which are basically poisonous to the system.

Jin, your memory is good! You are correct about the mold types I have in the one little room in my basement. What I don't understand, though, is how any of those mold spores could have gotten INSIDE the fruit. (?)

I guess there could have been some small breech in the skin that I didn't notice. And if there was an entry point, it's just as likely that any mold spores came from the storeroom at the grocery store. Think about how much spoiled fruit, breads, meats and fish they deal with on a daily basis back there! Not a pretty thought, but just a fact we should be aware of.

Gosh, I don't want to think about how many moldy blueberries and cherries I ate this summer. I tend to eat fruits like that in front of the TV where it's kind of dark, and once in awhile I'll eat one that definitely isn't right. But I've never had a problem from it. Which is why I was pretty shocked at the intense symptoms from 3 bites of this fruit. I don't seem to be that sensitive to the occasional bit of ingested mold.

Bea, I agree that the initial symptoms were very much like a hypoglycemic attack. I wish I had a clue about how eating this fruit may have triggered that. (I do have some signs and symptoms of `insulin resistance' and slightly high blood sugar at times, so this idea has some merit.) There's no doubt for me that whatever happened, the kiwi somehow kicked it into gear.

FWIW, weakness, fever, and chills ARE part of the symtomolgy of food poisoning, depending on which microbe or substance is involved. It's just that nausea and GI symptoms usually start first or are more dominant. It took awhile for me to find that info.

In my case, since everything takes many days to go through my GI tract, maybe that's why the GI stuff was the last to begin manifesting itself. Fortunately, the homeopathic Cinchona (aka CHINA off.) nipped that part in the bud before it could become a problem.

(Cinchona is just one of many remedies for `food poisoning' - it depends entirely on the symptoms. And I had to drag out my `big books' to figure this one out - my little home prescribing books didn't cover my main symptoms under Cinchona. I never would have figured this one out.)

Even without the remedy, I'm sure I would have survived this without `medical attention', but I suspect I would have been relatively miserable for at least a couple of days.

It's easy to say that NOW, but at the time it definitely had some scary moments. I can understand why people go to the ER when something like this happens, and I certainly don't want to encourage anyone NOT to go if they have severe symptoms like this.

My current policy is to learn as much as possible about how to treat myself FIRST, and avoid ERs, docs, and hospitals as much as possible. I've read some of the ER horror stories here! Besides, with my luck I'll come out of there with something worse than I went in with. [Eek!]

Thanks again for all the insight on this!

P.S. Oh, just saw more posts..... wow, that's most interesting about microbes living just under the skin. Hulda Clarke was pretty insightful about a lot of things..... she will be missed.

Also, excellent advice Tree and AliG. I was too sick for awhile there to eat anything, but it took awhile to make the connection to the kiwi fruit. (Duh.) [bonk]

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�.

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Truthfinder
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emla, that's interesting information about the patulin mycotoxin..... and it is associated with Penicillim mold (among some others)..... and the one link maybe explains why some mold sensitive people feel so much better with glutathione treatment! Good find.

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�.

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Lymetoo
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I'm glad you're OK, truthfinder!!

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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gwb
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quote:
Originally posted by springshowers:
I would agree with toxic issue of some kind.
After listening to a Video of Dr. Hulda Clark the other day she was saying that bacterias and fungus and such that cause cancer are linked to certain fruits and reside right under the peel. She was adimate that we all peel our fruits and some vegetables. Things such as apples , pears and carrots were mentioned but she said to peel all fruits.

I know you said you peel it but if it was that ripe then those toxins could have grown deeper and it ended up being eaten by you.

I always thought peels has so much to offer and did not want to peel my fruits or veggies but washed very well.

Now I peel.. She challenges you to peel everything and see how you feel and she says you will be amazed. I only read this about two weeks ago so I can not report but it sure got me thinking.

Will you volunteer to peel my blueberries for me? ; ) Now that would be a chore!

I do rinse (spray) my blueberries in hot water for a few seconds then rinse them in cold water. I throw away any blueberries that are over ripe just to be safe.

Gary

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Carol in PA
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quote:
Originally posted by Truthfinder:
...I could detect a very slight ALCOHOL smell.

So, what the heck was in that fruit?

Yeast can cause the sugar in the fruit to ferment into alcohol.


Carol

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Brussels
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Tracy, I wonder if you had was not merely allergy to kiwi?

Kiwi is one of the most allergenic foods, more than most citrus fruits.

I can now eat it, but I'm afraid of kiwi.

As for alcohol smell, I eat bananas smelling alcohol when they are falling apart, the alcohol can be MERELY a sign of the maturing of a fruit.

All fruits (that I know) start to 'produce' alcohol when maturing. That is why I never bought this story of people saying to stay away from alcoholic tinctures, as taking a few drops of that alcohol is absolutely not more than eating a ripe banana.

One single banana seems to contain more alcohol than those few drops of alcohol of a tincture one is supposed to take in a day.

Anyway, I would just test to see if you are not allergic to kiwi. Allergy symptoms can be the most crazy neuro symptoms ever, tremors, shaking etc. Whatever you were reacting too (penicilin or other mold), anyway, it could be more allergy than mold toxins.

Many people DEVELOP allergie with the years and with consumption, and with the particular moment in a lifetime (toxicity makes you more allergic). As I said, I was allergic to kiwi, but not to oranges nor lemon. My daughter was also allergic to kiwi.

Many people I know are allergic to kiwi (husband included).

Just my thoughts.

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Truthfinder
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Hey, thanks, Toot - I appreciate that!

Yep, Carol - this was definitely like a `fermentation' process producing alcohol. I'll tell ya, that was the worst `drunk' I've ever had. [Smile]

Brussels, I had no idea that kiwi allergies were common! Thanks for that info since there are still a lot of people out there who have never eaten one. They should be advised of that before eating much kiwi. But in my case, I've been eating them for years, and have enjoyed them all summer and never had a problem before this. I guess if it is an allergy, I'll react to the next one I have..... I'll pay attention this time!

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�.

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Jin
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Dear Truthfinder,
A lot of people cannot believe the things I remember. I hope I never lose it! My grandmother has Alzheimer's, so I worry about it constantly. Some people think I do not have Lyme for this reason. Until I can afford additional testing, I will not know much more.

Carol makes perfect sense. Fruit is not allowed on the Candida Diet because of the natural fructose presence in the fruit. In "The Yeast Connection", there was one case of a man named Charlie Swaart who literally became drunk from eating carbohydrates, including fruit. The yeast basically had made his gut into a brewery. Every single time he ate fruit or carbohydrates, he would distill it in his digestive tract and it would turn to alcohol.

Dear Brussels,
I am not surprised by kiwi being a highly allergenic food. It is high in histamines naturally. A friend of mine was doing a low-histamine diet, and it was on the list of foods to avoid. I always wondered if there was a common element with strawberries and tomatoes. They both make me breakout into a rash. Those foods are also on the high-histamine list.

Sincerely,
Jin

--------------------
Celiac Disease (2007)
Candida Overgrowth (2006)
Thyroid Disease (2004)
Gallbladder Disease (removed- 2003)
Fibromyalgia (2001)
Ovarian Cysts (5 in less than 10 months - 2000)
Anemia (2000)
IBS (1999)
Acid Reflux (1999)

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Truthfinder
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Thanks, Jin. The `brewery gut' issue is a pretty interesting possibility, though you would think that this would happen more frequently for me, even with fruits that were not past their prime. I'm no `purist'; I indulge in all kinds of sweets and carbs other than fruits. I just don't do it every day.

The strange weakness and shakiness I can understand, but the severe sweating and chills? Could have been an allergy to that particular type of alcohol produced. Or the fermentation process dramatically increased or enhanced the histamines?

I'm afraid I don't remember what else I had for dinner that evening - it was a small dinner and I think it was 80% raw foods - but it could have been some combination that set everything off. I just can't be sure.

If there's a downside to using homeopathics for treating something like this, it's that the symptoms go away so quickly that once you feel good enough to reflect on what happened, there are usually no lingering symptoms. Nor do you ever know what symptoms you aborted before they even happened. This could have been anything from The Black Plague to an allergy and the results would have been the same since I caught it so early in the game. Funny, I don't even remember what I looked at in my books to find the remedy, which is what happens when you treat yourself - there are just a lot of blank spots during the time you feel so lousy.

I guess all's well that ends well, as they say. [Smile]

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�.

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gemofnj
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truth,

could it have been from pesticides??? we never know whats been sprayed on our fruits and veggies.

maybe you digested a high content or are allergic to whatever was sprayed on your fruit.

if it was organic than toss this idea out! good luck

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