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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Sodium Bicarbonate Tablets--Kidney Disease

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Author Topic: Sodium Bicarbonate Tablets--Kidney Disease
gwb
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I just got back from seeing my Nephrologist regarding my 24 hour urine test. I have kidney disease but the tests show that my kidneys are still function normally.

However, the tests show that my citric acid level is low. Normal is 320-1240 mg/24 hr. Mine is 200.

My doctor prescribed me 650 MG of Sodium Bicarbonate tablets which is basically "baking soda". He says this will get my citric acid level up.

Has anyone taken SB tablets before for something like this? Did it help you? Seems like an awful lot of SB to take.

Also, my protein level was high. Normal is 10-150. Mine is 252. Wonder if any of this could be related to lyme or not?

Doctor said the damage probably came from the many tests I've had over the years with dye (contrast) in it. I read that the dye they give you for many of these tests are very damaging to the kidneys. I didn't know that until recently.

For those that are not aware of this--avoid it if you can! It's very harmful to our kidneys.

Can anyone give me some input regarding my test results and especially tell me what you think about taking SB tablets? Could it affect my blood pressure and my pulse rate?

Gary

[ 09-25-2009, 07:23 PM: Message edited by: gwb ]

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gwb
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gwb
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I'm bumping this once more hoping to hear from someone who knows anything about Sodium Bicarbonate tablets. I'm afraid to try them because it could raise my blood pressure.

Anyone taken Sodium Bicarbonate tablets before?

Gary

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Abxnomore
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I have never heard of this but never had an issue such as this. I would get another opinion from an ND or acam doctor who could possibly put you on good kidney support to repair things.

Sodium carbonate contains aluminum salts and while it may fix the problem I wonder what other problems it will cause. It's known to accumulate in the brain and cause Alzheimer's and other neurological problems.

For future testing it's good to take extra NAC before getting tests that use those dyes.

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gwb
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Abx, I plan to call the alternative doctor I've been seeing to get his feedback on this today. From what I've been reading about this I'm not feeling comfortable about taking it.

What is NAC? I will try to avoid ever taking another test with dye in it. I've had too many of those already and that is what the doctor suspects caused this in the first place.

Gary

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djf2005
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gary-

my dr recommended i use sodium bicarbonate tabs to lower inflammation in my body. ive not heard it used for your purpose but it didnt really do anything negative to me. its in alka seltzer gold in the same dose, 650 mg.

--------------------
"Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."

[email protected]

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gwb
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djf, did the sodium bicarbonate tabs help your inflammation? Any problems with blood pressure or pulse rate going up when taking them?

Gary

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Lonestartick
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I've got a very early morning, so I don't have much time to respond. If I remember, I'll try to share more later. For the time being, I hope the links work and are helpful.

They may help to explain why your nephrologist wants to start you on sodium bicarb tablets, which he probably plans to monitor carefully. I would encourage you to ask him about his rational and how his other patients with kidney disease have done with it. He probably has a better understanding of this as it relates to the specific challenges you are facing. You may also find it helpful to ask your LLMD what s/he thinks.

http://www.pharmacyeurope.net/default.asp?title=Bakingsoda"helpskidneydisease"&page=article.display&article.id=17709

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2057731/chronic_kidney_disease_improve_kidney.html

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1954712/baking_soda_for_kidney_disease.html?cat=68

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gwb
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Lonestartick, thank you so much for these valuable links. It's very encouraging to me. When you have more time I would be interested in learning more about this.

Again, thank you for taking the time to look this up and respond to my questions. I truly do appreciate it!

Gary

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Keebler
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-
Are there other ways to increase citric acid. There have been cases where Sodium Bicarbonate caused some serious stomach bloating, some of which needed surgical repair.

It's been many years since I read of this account and it may have been that overeating (such as at Thanksgiving) precipitated this event. And, if I recall corrected, a man also had a soda of some kind with the baking soda. That literally created a volcano effect and his stomach ruptured.

I don't know what 650 MG is in relation to a daily allowance, really is not all that much salt at all . . . still, you may want to be sure to avoid any carbonated beverage - even soda water.

What foods have citric acid? Foods are our best friends. Our bodies know what to do with food in its natural state.
-

[ 09-25-2009, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Abxnomore
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gwb, nac is N-Acetyl-Cysteine.

Baking soda may do the trick but if you have to be on bicarbonate long term, I would look for a better option. Aluminum salts don't sound to good to me.

Some how I think your alternative doctor will have some better options.

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ElaineC
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My doc said only take the Soda Bicarb tabs for max 3-4 days at a time for herxes and inflammation - otherwise is dangerous as body becomes too basic!
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Lonestartick
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I've been thinking about you and wanted to come back to check on this topic because I think this may be an important one. I hope you don't mind the suggestion, but I would encourage you to add kidney disease to the topic title so that other patients like myself don't confuse or accidentally mislead you as a result of our own understanding of the use of sodium bicarbonate as our patient population may be familiar with it.

Sometimes in the Lyme/CFS/FM communities it is considered an alternative or adjunctive treatment plan for the purpose of modulating a Herx response, or for ``pH balancing'', so that's the alternative perspective that many of our forum members are familiar with and may have even found helpful.

I gather your nephrologist is recommending sodium bicarbonate tablets because when they are used as he is prescribing them, they can slow down and/or even prevent kidney disease from leading to kidney failure as your kidneys try to compensate for damage. For that reason, I hope your nephrologist will be willing to converse with you about using sodium bicarbonate tablets in the manner he suggested.

This type of treatment isn't a DIY (do it yourself) remedy in this context. This is probably one time when it might be important for you to go mainstream and trust your doctor on this issue because he is the one who will be monitoring the changes and is responsible for your outcome.

I neither know enough about your specific situation, nor do I have the background to advise you here. However, I do think it sounds as if your doctor is trying to prevent further damage to your kidneys that might lead to the necessity of dialysis.

ABXnomore suggested that you increase fruit in your diet because that may help to raise citrate level. That seems like a good suggestion. However, other than that, I would implore you to ask your doctor about the specifics here because it sounds as if there is more factoring into his decision.

Perhaps if you explain to him that you would like to understand this from a physiological perspective so that you can assess the risks versus benefits, he'll be able to give you a more satisfactory explanation. Likewise, you could take your results and consult your LLMD or an ACAM doctor to see what they say, but it sounds as if your doctor is looking at the bigger picture and trying to prevent or reverse damage that could potentially lead to a more serious condition if permitted to go unchecked.

Just my $0.02

----------------

Daily dose of baking soda could stop kidney patients needing dialysis:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1200287/Daily-dose-baking-soda-stop-kidney-patients-needing-dialysis.html?ITO=1490

Sodium Bicarb In Kidney Failure
http://kidneydiettips.davitablogs.com/?m=200907

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Keebler
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-
Lonestartick,

Thanks for your info. I've learned a lot. You have a good point able the angle from where we see things.

=====================

Gary,

NAC is N-Acetyl-Cysteine - it is a supplement intended to help protect the liver. Most LLMDs highly recommend it, some require it.

http://www.vrp.com/ArticlesSearch.aspx?k=NAC

Search results for NAC: 52 articles found

====================


I may have missed it, you may have said but I didn't see mention that if these would be aluminum-free tablets. If not:

http://www.bobsredmill.com/baking-soda.html

Aluminum-Free Baking Soda - Bob's Red Mill

Customer Service: (800) 349-2173 (PT zone)

---------

You would need a gram spoon to accurately measure.

I just called below and they said they could send you a gram spoon at no charge, they would be happy to do so, no need to order anything at all . . . just call.

http://www.1stchineseherbs.com/index.html

1st Chinese Herbs at 1-888-842-2049 (Also PT zone)

--

650 MG - would be less than one gram. Ask if they have smaller units of measure - or ask your doctor about how to do this.

==============================

It may be that the SB will do the job just fine all on its own.

None of this is meant to undermine your kidney specialist. It is important to listen to him. However, I'm sure you'll be learning much more about kidneys and I offer some of these links simply as something to consider in your personal research - and then to discuss (if you choose) with your health professionals.

-------------

You might also ask your LL ND about Salvia, etc.

www.itmonline.org/arts/salviarenal.htm

THE USE OF SALVIA FOR PATIENTS WITH RENAL FAILURE
by Subhuti Dharmananda, Ph.D (2005)

Excerpts:

. . . Salvia has been used in treatment of chronic renal insufficiency in China for at least thirty years. . . .


. . . This ingredient, like the whole root of salvia, was reported to enhance plasma blood flow and reduce glomerular filtration rate in the kidneys of laboratory animals suffering renal failure.

In 1993, Chinese researchers in Hangzhou reported on the effect of salvia injection in patients undergoing peritoneal dialysis for renal failure, claiming it could markedly increase the clearance rate and ultrafiltration rate of creatinine, urea nitrogen, and uric acid (6).

A study in Japan published in 2000 further noted that salvia inhibited nitrogen oxide (NO) production which was thought to be a contributor to both acute and chronic renal failure (7),

while a study in Korea published in 2004 suggested that scavenging of free radicals in the kidneys was part of the mechanism of action for both salvia and its component lithospermate B (8) . . . .

. . .

[Rhubarb] . . .The traditional medicine rationale for using rhubarb in treatment of patients with renal failure is that the disease is marked by an underlying condition of deficiency (which allows the deterioration) and an overlay of excess, namely stagnation of blood and accumulation of damp and turbidity. . . .


- Full article at link above.

=================

From The One Earth Herbal Sourcebook (Tillotson):

http://oneearthherbs.squarespace.com/diseases/nephritis-nephrosis.html

Nephritis & Nephrosis

====================


From Vitamin Research Products:

http://www.vrp.com/ArticlesSearch.aspx?k=Kidney_Function

Search results for Kidney Function: 638 articles found

-

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gwb
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Lonestartick, you pretty much hit the nail on the head about the kidney disease. Yes, I have what's called Severe Bilateral Renal Parenchymal Disease. At your suggestion I added "Kidney Disease" on the topic title. Thanks for suggesting this.

My kidney function at this time is "normal". The doctor feels if I take the Sodium Bicarbonate tablets I could "outlive this disease". He said that my kidneys are retaining too much salt crystals (if I understand him correctly) and the SB tablets will help to flush this out and help my kidneys to become healthier.

I asked my Nephrologist so many questions about what to eat, not to eat, medicines to avoid etc, etc. He really wasn't helpful in that regards. He kept telling me not to worry about it, take the SB, drink tons of water and everything will be fine. He basically feels the SB is the "cure all" and not to worry about anything else.

Years ago I would have simply followed the doctors orders and do whatever they said without question. After a botched surgery and a lot of bad medical advice from doctors over the years, I'm very careful about doing anything they say until I fully understand what I'm getting into. That's why I'm here asking questions and researching this on the internet.

My concern is, what are the long terms affects of taking 650 mg of SB three times a day for the next few years? Abxnomore made a good point (something I was unaware of) regarding aluminum in SB. That's something that does concern me for reasons that he explained in his post.

Today I visited my heart doctor and he said he was concerned about me taking this much SB as he said it would affect my blood pressure. I'm not having bp problems at this time but prior to losing 55 pounds I did have bp problems.

I told my heart doctor that I was concerned about the aluminum in the tablets. He said he didn't think that there was aluminum in the tablets, but he wasn't absolutely sure about this. That's something I really need to find out more about.

I really appreciate the many links you've provided me with regarding SB. From what I've read so far, the evidence is pretty convincing that SB does indeed slow down progression of this disease. Again, I do have concerns about long term use and that's what I'm hoping to learn more about as I do more research on this.

* Keebler, thank you very much for all of the links you've provided me with. I've been reading through them and learning so much from this information. I really appreciate you taking the time to research this and provide me with this valuable information.

* Abxnomore, my alternative doctor is out of the office until Monday. I look forward to hearing back from him regarding his opinion on this and what suggestions he might have for me. Thanks so much for your input.

Thanks to everyone else who contributed to this thread. I've learned so much from reading your responses and your own experiences with SB.

Gary

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