I am going to try to get a prescription for this but just curious if there is anything else anyone knows about to kill yeast.
I am pretty sure I have thrush. I have been taking olive leaf and probiotics faithfully, rinse mouth with antibacterial solution, put salt on tongue...any other ideas?
-------------------- TxLymie IgG-Negative IgM - Postive bands 23 and 41
Other dx: 2000: Endometriosis 2009: Chronic EBV, Mycoplasma infection, HHV6, H.pylori Posts: 297 | From Houston | Registered: Jun 2009
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posted
Dear TxLymie, Yeast is notoriously stubborn. I have so much of it, I hate to think of how bad it is. A number of foods aggravate the situation and feed the Candida. Peanuts and peanut butter are not allowed on the severely restricted diet for it. Anything with yeast, vinegar, mushrooms, processed tomato products in any form, sugar, fruit (especially dried fruits), dairy (except plain yogurt if tolerated), transfats, green olives, soy sauce, pistachios, and refined carbs such as white rice are forbidden.
My trouble is, my blood sugar gets too low, and nothing but the bad stuff will raise it to even 80. Restricting carbs has been impossible for me for that reason. I have reacted to a multivitamin because it had Grape Seed Extract in it. That naturally kills yeast. Other herbs and supplements are helpful for destroying Candida as well. You already mentioned Olive Leaf Extract, so that is covered. Others you may not know about include coconut oil, garlic, Vitamin D, Oil of Oregano (you can get it in enteric-coated capsules so it is gentler on your stomach), Cyprilic Acid, and probiotics.
Diflucan is only one drug used to eradicate Candida. Nystatin and Amphotericen-B are two more pharmaceuticals used to treat it. Amphotericin-B is added to foods like cheese to prevent molding. Regardless of which you take, ramping up the dosage slowly is the smarter option. Herxes are too severe if you do everything at once.
I read Nystatin is used for oral thrush as a mouthwash or rinse. If you have white patches all over your tongue, that is thrush. It is fairly easy to tell when that is what it is. The antibacterial solution is not anti-fungal solution. In fact, it may irritate the situation if it is an antibiotic. Flagyl was said to be used as a treatment for Candida overgrowth, and as far as I know, is the only antibiotic with that use.
This may explain why I got so ill the last time I took it. I may have been having a herx. I also get sick from cinnamon, and a friend of mine found while doing research it can also help eradicate yeast. There may be no coincidence that both made me very miserable. Cinnamon actually made me worse than the Flagyl.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Olive leaf extract works wonders for me.
See the book: The Candida Diet (or something like that). Avoid ALL simple sugars. You can google the term if you are unsure. Also avoid all artificial sweeteners. But the plant-sourced Stevia can be used in tea, etc.
--
Jin,
You said: " . . .Restricting carbs has been impossible for me for that reason. " (of low blood sugar).
Yeah, I tried that for a while and kept passing out.
I found that you don't necessarily have to restrict carbs as in avoiding them - it's the kind of carbs that matter. Complex carbs, combined with protein and good fats with each meal and snack, too.
I'm talking about lots of vegetables - nearly all the fabulous colors of the rainbow --- and even modest amounts of some non-gluten grains - especially QUINOA (keen-wa). That has a good glycemic index, a good amino acid content for some protein and also enough complex carbs to fuel your body and keep you going. Adding a splash of olive oil will carry you even further.
posted
Thanks all! I've already tried most of those things and I still seem to have gotten a yeast infection! From the beginning I cut out sugars and most carbs, but not so much fruits....dang, on this diet there isn't much left to eat.
I'll try some of the other things suggested too. Thanks again!
-------------------- TxLymie IgG-Negative IgM - Postive bands 23 and 41
Other dx: 2000: Endometriosis 2009: Chronic EBV, Mycoplasma infection, HHV6, H.pylori Posts: 297 | From Houston | Registered: Jun 2009
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The book "Conquer Candida and Restore Your Immune System" by Dr. Jack Tips - www.drjacktips.com then slide over to the apple a day booksite. www.amazon.com may also have it.
Drugs you mentioned may actually kill the weaker yeast while the tougher ones go hide.
When the drugs are stopped the tougher ones come out and breed, making your next bout of yeast stronger and tougher to ge rid of.
Dr. Tips recommendations from the book help change the internal terrain and quite often special diets are NOT needed.
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Keebler
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Member # 12673
posted
I bought that book the last time you recommended it several years ago, massman... and I didn't find anything new in it.
I still have to watch what I eat and I'm not even on antibiotics.
TXLymie.. the link I gave you also contains a 5 step approach to killing Lyme and a comprehensive list of foods to avoid while in a bad case of yeast.
Granny Smith apples are about the only fruit allowed on his diet. Later you can add more variety.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96238 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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massman
Unregistered
posted
If you got the book did you follow the recommended herbal program ?
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TF
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Member # 14183
posted
My now famous lyme doc told me to get "The Body Ecology Diet" and follow it.
I borrowed the book from the library. I didn't like it, but I don't really have a yeast problem.
I understand that this diet has helped many people who suffered with candida their entire lives, and it helps the immune system, so it restores people to health.
Here is a link to a page telling you that it is designed for people with long-standing candida problems:
There are a lot of good recipes on the site also. I ate the Hot Breakfast Porridge almost daily when I was treating lyme disease.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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Keebler
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Member # 12673
posted
- For those with resistant candida, a lab test to determine the strain may be good. Not all Rx works on all strains. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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(I am not a doctor)
Posts: 10 | From Pa | Registered: Oct 2009
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
If I have learned one thing during my journey of Lyme, as long as you have heavy metals in your body and/or add more to what you already have by your dental situation or other exposures, yeast cannot stay away or be eradicated.
You can eat little or nothing, and it will still be there.
The buildup of yeast is the body's own protection. The body creates it to wrap up the mercury, etc. in order to survive, because the mercury is so toxic.
ABX certainly does not help the situation.
If you have a tough time with fungi and yeast, have a look at your heavy metal situation. Since 1996, when I got ill from Lyme, I have not met a single person with Lyme who has not also had a heavy metal toxicity problem. Some have removed their source (amalgam fillings), but have never gone through a serious heavy metal detox program that can last many months or several years.
We have also recently found that literally every person I know with Lyme who has taken the Allergie Immun test is allergic to the most toxic heavy metals and to literally all fungi and mold, as well as to major foods (wheat/gluten, corn, soy) at the energetic DNA level. Many are now being treated. Consider reading the thread and website I have posted many times. When energetic dysregulation is present, the body does not recognize any of these substances and therefore cannot expel them. Treatment is simple. This explains, with a simple solution, why so many people seem to take forever to improve.
Hope you will take the time. Also read Dr. K's website www.neuraltherapy.com which will explain many of the connections between neurotoxins and infections.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
copying the 1st link below and breaking up for neuros like me if necessary; betty
quote:Originally posted by serenitylady55:
Hi..here is a great article on yeast and bacterial infections. Hope this helps.
Warding Off Chronic Yeast and Bacterial Infections
By Dale Kiefer
Powerful drugs exist to eradicate most acute yeast and bacterial infections. Yet if the conditions that make one vulnerable to these pathogens are not corrected, these organisms too often return.
Women frequently encounter yeast infections in their vaginal tissues. Likewise, chronic urinary tract bacterial infections cause significant misery for tens of millions of women annually.
New studies reveal that restoring healthy probiotic flora significantly protects against these types of chronic infections.
Bacteria: Friends or Foes?
We often think of bacteria as the enemy: It's certainly true that many species such as those that cause tuberculosis or anthrax are capable of great harm.
But we would be remiss to ignore the fact that some bacteria, particularly those that produce lactic acid, are not only harmless, they're actually highly beneficial.
In fact, a beneficial symbiotic relationship exists between humans and certain types of ``friendly'' bacteria.
Although we enter the world with sterile (free from living microorganisms) bodies, the situation changes rapidly.
Beneficial bacteria lose little time colonizing areas where body tissues interface with the environment, such as the mouth, digestive tract, and vagina.
When beneficial bacteria hold sway, optimal health is achieved and maintained.
In the gut, friendly bacteria help maintain the integrity of the intestinal lining and emerging evidence suggests they also boost immunity.1-4
Happily, by flourishing they also prevent other, far less innocuous bacteria from gaining a foothold, both by physically crowding them out, and by optimally altering the local environment to discourage harmful bacteria from thriving.
An individual's beneficial microflora eventually number into trillions of individual cells.
In the gut, these friendly microorganisms contribute to the body's supplies of vitamin K and folic acid5,6 by interacting with our own cells in ``a highly complex but harmonious relationship,''7 as well as helping modulate innate immunity.2
Lactobacillus is a Girl's Best Friend
A similar colonization process also helps protect against a number of vaginal infections in females.
Once established, friendly bacteria (especially of the Lactobacillus genus) produce natural disinfectants that help maintain an optimal pH and a healthy balance of beneficial microorganisms in the vagina by excluding harmful bacteria and other pathogens.
For example, certain specific strains of Lactobacilli produce substances such as lactic acid, hydrogen peroxide, and bacteriocins, which inhibit the growth of bacteria implicated in bacterial vaginosis.
Furthermore, these friendly acid-making bacteria may inhibit the adherence of harmful bacteria responsible for bacterial vaginosis.
Numerous factors may upset the delicate balance of friendly microflora. These include:
antibiotic therapy, dietary changes, cigarette smoking, sexual activity, and oscillating stress levels.
Regardless of the cause, such perturbations may lead to overgrowth by one or another pathogen, perhaps resulting in the dreaded, but common, yeast infection or the lesser known (but no less common) condition known as bacterial vaginosis.
Often accompanied by odor, discharge, pain, and itching or burning, bacterial vaginosis is actually the most common vaginal infection in women of childbearing age.
Bacterial vaginosis is caused by the overgrowth of anaerobic bacteria such as Gardnerella, Mobiluncus, Bacteroides, or Mycoplasma.
Established risk factors for this condition include prior infection with the herpes simplex virus type 2, having multiple sexual partners, and low levels of Lactobacilli.8
While clearly a nuisance, bacterial vaginosis is also associated with an increased risk of developing more serious conditions such as pelvic inflammatory disease or sexually transmitted infections such as Chlamydia or gonorrhea.
Bacterial vaginosis may also increase the risk of complications during pregnancy.8,9
Vaginal Microflora Disorders Exceptionally Common
According to one report, there are more than 300 million cases of urinary tract infections, bacterial vaginosis, and yeast vaginitis worldwide every year.10
Yeast infections alone affect 75% of American women during their reproductive years, and 40-50% of these women will endure recurrent episodes, while 5-8% experience chronic Candida infections.11
Standard treatment for the common Candida yeast infection (technically called vulvovaginal candidiasis) calls for antifungal therapy, either with an oral agent, such as itraconazole or fluconazole,12 or a more cumbersome vaginal cream or suppository, which may require multiple applications.
Bacterial vaginosis is commonly treated with an antibiotic, such as metronidazole or clindamycin.13
In any event, scientists note that recurrent infections of this type are ``notoriously difficult to manage,'' and can cause a great deal of discomfort, inconvenience, and even psychological distress.14
Given the high prevalence of these infections, and the alarmingly high rate of recurrence, it is clear that most adult women could benefit from preventive protection.
Prevention Preferable to Treatment
Fortunately, scientists have identified specific species of bacteria that are especially effective at protecting vaginal and intestinal microflora, providing resistance against perturbations that may lead to overgrowth with decidedly unfriendly species of yeast and bacteria.
Generally, these protective bacteria are classified as acid-loving, or acidophilus bacteria.
Clinical trials have shown that bacteria of the genus Lactobacillus, in particular, when consumed orally daily are especially effective at establishing and maintaining healthy vaginal microflora.
Commonly found living in harmony within the vagina, studies have shown that certain species of Lactobacillus are capable of inhibiting the growth of pathogenic organisms such as Gardnerella vaginalis and Candida albicans.
These same friendly acid-making bacteria may also inhibit unwelcome fungi from adhering to the lining of the vagina, which prevents yeast infection.15
A recent randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind study found that women with high numbers of Lactobacilli in the vagina were far less likely to harbor yeast.16
Two species of Lactobacillus in particular, L. rhamnosus (GR-1) and L. reuteri (RC-14), have been shown to be especially adept at colonizing the vaginal environment and fighting off attempts by unwelcome bacteria and fungi to gain a foothold.
In 2001, pioneering research conducted at the University of Western Ontario demonstrated the ability of these specific strains of Lactobacillus to ``restore and maintain a normal urogenital flora'' in women after just 28 days of daily oral use.17
A more recent study examined the potential role of these oral probiotics in treating bacterial vaginosis in conjunction with standard antibiotic therapy.
The study enrolled 125 premenopausal women with diagnosed bacterial infections of the vagina.18
Subjects were prescribed standard antibiotic therapy consisting of metronidazole (500 mg) taken twice daily for one week.
Additionally, subjects were randomly assigned to a twice-daily dose of oral probiotics, containing GR-1 and RC-14, or inactive placebo, for an entire month, beginning on the first day of treatment with the antibiotic.
What You Need to Know: Probiotics
Probiotics are microorganisms that produce beneficial effects on human health, such as preventing vaginal infections, maintaining optimal pH balance, supporting immune function, and preventing harmful microbes from thriving.
Scientists have identified two species of probiotic bacteria with remarkable benefits for female health.
Known as Lactobacillus rhamnosus (GR-1) and Lactobacillus reuteri (RC-14), these probiotics show powerful effects in preventing and fighting bacterial and fungal vaginal infections. ---------------------------------------------
Convincing Clinical Data
At the end of the one-month trial, 88% of women taking both antibiotic and oral probiotics were judged to be cured.
In sharp contrast to this impressive cure rate, only 40% of the women taking standard antibiotic therapy alone were found to have been cured.
Lactobacillus counts were high in 96% of the women who had received probiotic therapy, while counts were high in only 53% of control subjects at the end of the study.18
``This study showed efficacious use of Lactobacilli and antibiotic in the eradication of bacterial vaginosis,'' concluded the researchers.
Clearly, daily oral supplementation with Lactobacilli can make a significant contribution to vaginal health.
Earlier research showed that daily oral probiotic therapy is not only safe, but is also effective at shifting the vaginal microflora from a pathogen-friendly environment to a pathogen-resistant one.
In a randomized, placebo-controlled trial in 64 healthy women, Canadian researchers showed that two months of therapy with daily GR-1/RC-14 oral probiotics shifted the vaginal microflora from one typified by potentially pathogenic bacteria and yeast (capable of causing bacterial vaginosis infection or fungal vaginitis) to ``normal Lactobacilli-colonized microflora'' in 37% of women versus just 13% of women taking placebo.19
Although apparently healthy when first enrolled, these women were found to be experiencing non-symptomatic bacterial vaginosis, which was successfully treated by restoring the normal Lactobacilli-dominant microflora with oral probiotics.19,20
Supplementing With Probiotics
Probiotics are beneficial organisms that provide humans with a variety of health benefits.
Evidence of these benefits has been known for a long time, but modern science has only recently begun to delve into the numerous ways in which these friendly microorganisms enhance our welfare.
There is strong evidence that the beneficial bacteria, L. rhamnosus GR-1 and L. reuteri RC-14, provide significant safeguards against vaginal disorders.
For optimal female health benefits, health care practition-ers suggest supplementing with 5-10 billion colony-forming units (cfu) of the Lactobacilli strains GR-1 and RC-14 each day. Lactobacilli products require refrigeration for optimal potency.
Immunosuppressed patients should consult a physician before supplementing with probiotic agents such as Lactobacillus.
Working to establish a natural state of harmony, these probiotics are capable of restoring balance, preventing infection by harmful microbes, and reducing inflammation in various areas of the body. *
If you have any questions on the scientific content of this article, please call a Life Extension Health Advisor at 1-800-226-2370. -----------------------------------------
References
1. Monteleone G, Peluso I, Fina D, et al. Bacteria and mucosal immunity. Dig Liver Dis. 2006 Dec;38(Suppl 2):S256-60.
2. Mohamadzadeh M, Olson S, Kalina WV, et al. Lactobacilli activate human dendritic cells that skew T cells toward T helper 1 polarization. Proc Natl Acad Sci USA. 2005 Feb 22;102(8):2880-5.
3. Hutt P, Shchepetova J, Loivukene K, Kullisaar T, Mikelsaar M. Antagonistic activity of probiotic lactobacilli and bifidobacteria against entero- and uropathogens. J Appl Microbiol. 2006 Jun;100(6):1324-32.
4. Reid G, Bruce AW. Probiotics to prevent urinary tract infections: the rationale and evidence. World J Urol. 2006 Feb;24(1):28-32.
5. Said HM, Mohammed ZM. Intestinal absorption of water-soluble vitamins: an update. Curr Opin Gastroenterol. 2006 Mar;22(2):140-6.
6. Conly JM, Stein K. The production of menaquinones (vitamin K2) by intestinal bacteria and their role in maintaining coagulation homeostasis. Prog Food Nutr Sci. 1992 Oct;16(4):307-43.
7. Ewaschuk JB, Dieleman LA. Probiotics and prebiotics in chronic inflammatory bowel diseases. World J Gastroenterol. 2006 Oct 7;12(37):5941-50.
8. Cherpes TL, Hillier SL, Meyn LA, Busch JL, Krohn MA. A Delicate balance: risk factors for acquisition of bacterial vaginosis include sexual activity, absence of hydrogen peroxide-producing lactobacilli, black race, and positive herpes simplex virus type 2 serology. Sex Transm Dis. 2008 Jan;35(1):78-83.
10. Reid G. Probiotic agents to protect the urogenital tract against infection. Am J Clin Nutr. 2001 Feb;73(2 Suppl):437S-43S.
11. Wilson C. Recurrent vulvovaginitis candidiasis; an overview of traditional and alternative therapies. Adv Nurse Pract. 2005 May;13(5):24-9.
12. Pitsouni E, Iavazzo C, Falagas ME. Itraconazole vs fluconazole for the treatment of uncomplicated acute vaginal and vulvovaginal candidiasis in nonpregnant women: A metaanalysis of randomized controlled trials. Am J Obstet Gynecol. 2007; Dec 7.
13. Ferris DG, Litaker MS, Woodward L, Mathis D, Hendrich J. Treatment of bacterial vaginosis: a comparison of oral metronidazole, metronidazole vaginal gel, and clindamycin vaginal cream. J Fam Pract. 1995 Nov;41(5):443-9.
14. Watson C, Calabretto H. Comprehensive review of conventional and non-conventional methods of management of recurrent vulvovaginal candidiasis. Aust NZ J Obstet Gynaecol. 2007 Aug;47(4):262-72.
15. Falagas ME, Betsi GI, Athanasiou S. Probiotics for prevention of recurrent vulvovaginal candidiasis: a review. J Antimicrob Chemother. 2006 Aug;58(2):266-72.
16. Ronnqvist PD, Forsgren-Brusk UB, Grahn-Hakansson EE. Lactobacilli in the female genital tract in relation to other genital microbes and vaginal pH. Acta Obstet Gynecol Scand. 2006;85(6):726-35.
17. Reid G, Beuerman D, Heinemann C, Bruce AW. Probiotic Lactobacillus dose required to restore and maintain a normal vaginal flora. FEMS Immunol Med Microbiol. 2001 Dec;32(1):37-41.
18. Anukam K, Osazuwa E, Ahonkhai I, et al. Augmentation of antimicrobial metronidazole therapy of bacterial vaginosis with oral probiotic Lactobacillus rhamnosus GR-1 and Lactobacillus reuteri RC-14: randomized, double-blind, placebo controlled trial. Microbes Infect. 2006 May;8(6):1450-4.
19. Reid G, Charbonneau D, Erb J, et al. Oral use of Lactobacillus rhamnosus GR-1 and L. fermentum RC-14 significantly alters vaginal flora: randomized, placebo-controlled trial in 64 healthy women. FEMS Immunol Med Microbiol. 2003 Mar 20;35(2):131-4.
20. Reid G, Burton J, Hammond JA, Bruce AW. Nucleic acid-based diagnosis of bacterial vaginosis and improved management
All Contents Copyright � 1995-2009 Life Extension Foundation�
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pamoisondelune
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11846
posted
Selma ("Brussels") has often posted that Sanum homeopathic products cured all her many fungus infections.
---Polly Polygonum
Posts: 1226 | From USA | Registered: May 2007
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posted
Daughter's nurse suggested swishing white vinegar around in her mouth. Also diluting some with water and drinking it. Also to pour some over her toothbrush after each use to kill yeast that remains on the toothbrush.
She said women used to use it as a douche before they became "commercial" products.
Some very cheap things to try!
Posts: 93 | From Midwest | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
I brush my tongue with medical grade peroxide then leave it on for about 3-4 minutes. Afterwards I coat my tongue with probiotics. I can keep most of the thrush gunk off but getting totally rid of the stuff is extremely difficult. Clear spots are developing on the edges and around my tongue so total eradication seams possible. The progress however is extremely slow.
Posts: 731 | From Humble,TX | Registered: Feb 2005
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gemofnj
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15551
posted
TX,
when my candida symptoms get out of control the first thing i do (besides the diet thing) is increase my probiotics. im talking 60 - 100 billion cultures minimum a day.
next, i add an enzyme such as candizyme or digest gold. enzymes are very important in destroying yeast.
you may want to change to a stronger herbal antifungal. if olive leaf isnt cutting it for you, try something else such as oregano (OREGAMAX).
some products such as Candicyn contain a blend of many herbal antifungals including Pau D'Arco extract, oregano, gentian extract, caprylic acid, grapefruit seed extract, licorice, etc.
increasing detox methods is also helpful. good luck and hope you feel better.
Posts: 1127 | From atlantic city, nj | Registered: May 2008
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