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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Is taking ibuprofen during a herx bad?

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Author Topic: Is taking ibuprofen during a herx bad?
Hoosiers51
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I have had a lot of pain and inflammation in my neck and the back of my head from herxing.

So doesn't your body become "inflamed" when your immune system is attacking? So would taking something to reduce the inflammation be counterproductive to the killing process?

There is no fever in this case.

Thanks!

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knshore
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I don't know the answer to this question, but be very careful with ibuprofen! I got a bleeding stomach ulcer from taking too much, along with severe gastritis.

Just be careful, not fearful!

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Keebler
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Toxins produce inflammation. As long as lyme is on the block, there will be inflammation, to varying degrees.

I also got an ulcer (years ago) from ibuprofen and various NSAIDS. And, they never really ever worked very well for me. Ibuprofen limits blood flow, not a good thing.

Of concern, too, is the potential damage to kidneys in patients who have health problems:

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/04/16/us/kidney-peril-found-in-the-pain-reliever-ibuprofen.html

Kidney Peril Found in the Pain Reliever Ibuprofen - The New York Times

=========

Some safer methods to calm inflammation and the pain from that:

http://www.vrp.com/ArticlesSearch.aspx?k=Inflammation

Search results for Inflammation: many articles

----------

http://www.vrp.com/ArticlesSearch.aspx?k=Pain

Search results for pain: many articles

==========

More specific to lyme treatment, you'd want things that calm the cytokine storm. All that may be mentioned in some of the inflammation articles above but here is a snapshot of one of the very best that I've used:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

PubMed Search:

Stinging Nettle - 277 abstracts

Stinging Nettle, cytokine - 14 abstracts

=================

http://oneearthherbs.squarespace.com/important-herbs/stinging-nettle-urtica-dioica.html

STINGING NETTLE (Urtica dioica)

Excerpts:

. . .

WHAT IT DOES: Stinging nettle leaf is bitter in taste and cooling in action. It cleanses the blood. Nettle seed nourishes and removes toxins from the kidneys.

. . .

* Nettle leaf extracts reduce inflammation, in part, by suppressing the release of inflammatory cytokines. They do this by blocking a chemical inducer known as NF-KappaB, which alters gene expresion. This may be one explanation for the beneficial efffects this herb has exhibited in rheumatoid arthritis (Riehemann et al., 1999).


* One set of in vitro experiments on live blood using extracts of stinging nettle leaf exhibited its ability to slow down the inflammatory cytokine response caused by endotoxins.

In the same experiments, when there was no endotoxin present, the nettle leaf actually stimulated an immune response. Researchers believed these results could explain the positive effects of this extract in the treatment of rheumatic diseases (Obertreis B et al., 1996).

- Full chapter at link above.

From ``The One Earth Herbal Sourcebook'' (Tillotson, et.al.)

-

[ 11-21-2009, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Thane
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Sorry if your links provide this info, i have trouble reading, but the stinging nettle would reducing the cytokine storm by suppressing the immune system right? Which is similar to the ibprophen except that its easier on the stomach and kidneys? Thanks.
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seekhelp
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It's helped me a lot before.
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merrygirl
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there is no sense suffering, just dont exceed the daily limit not sure what that is.
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Keebler
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Thane,

Primarly, Stinging nettle helps reduce toxins and that decreases pain and helps calm the cytokine storm. It may calm the immune response but not at all in the same way as Ibuprofen.


No one need suffer but Ibuprofen does not address the cause, only tricks the body - and it slows down the blood flow That is not helpful and, even in normal doses, can be hard on kidneys for anyone who has health challenges.

There are many safer alternatives and methods that work with the body. We need our kidneys to last a lifetime.
-

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randibear
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my doc said i can use alleve but that's all.

--------------------
do not look back when the only course is forward

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Hoosiers51
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Randi, Do you know why?

Thanks everyone.

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Myco
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Smilax is very good for this.
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randibear
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no i don't, but he said no aspirin or acephetamine (sorry for spelling). he gave me an entire list of what's good and bad.

i'll look around and see if i can find it.

just remember no tylenol.

--------------------
do not look back when the only course is forward

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Imaginit
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Myco,
What is Smilax?

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Keebler
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ALEVE is a NSAID and only short term use of a few days or a week is advised, according the manufacturer's website. It can also cause ulcers as all NSAIDS can, so be sure not to take on an empty stomach.
--------------

Smilax is Sarsaparilla. VERY helpful to capture endotoxins and, thereby, lessen pain and inflammation. It was used in the 1500's for another famous spirochetal infection that I can never spell correctly.

Smilax is usually in a blended formula with other ingredients such as Scute and Houttuynia to balance the effects.
-

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Keebler
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http://oneearthherbs.squarespace.com/important-herbs/sarsaparilla-root-smilax-species.html


SARSAPARILLA ROOT (Smilax species)

WHAT IT DOES: Sarsaparilla root is sweet and bland in taste, and neutral in action. It removes toxins from the bowel, and reduces inflammation and dampness from the blood, liver, urinary system and skin.

RATING: Yellow, due to limitations is usage.

SAFETY ISSUES: None known

STARTING DOSAGE: Dried root: three to 12 grams per day

4:1 dried decoction: one to four grams per day

1:5 tincture: two to four milliliters (ml) in water or juice 3 times per day

Sarsaparilla root has been famous in the West since 1574, when a French physician described its use in treating syphilis.

Various Smilax species are used to treat infections and inflammation--especially those affecting the skin and intestines--in many countries including India, China, Europe, the United States, Brazil, Guatemala, and Saudi Arabia.

Because of the historical use for syphilis, many herbalists now use sarsaparilla root for Lyme disease, also caused by a spirochete organism.

Naturopaths believe that sarsaparilla root binds and remove endotoxin from the bowel, perhaps by stimulating liver clearance (Murray & Pizzorno, 1989).


Deng (1994) tells us that endotoxin--chemicals released into the host after breakdown of the cell walls of gram-negative organisms-- accords closely with the idea of "pathogenic toxins" in TCM. His studies have shown that the removal of endotoxin helps control many inflammatory and febrile diseases.

. . .

* In 1942, the New England Journal of Medicine published a controlled study showing that an endotoxin-binding saponin extract of sarsaparilla was effective in reducing psoriasis symptoms (Thurman, 1942, reported in Murray & Pizzorno, 1989).


* Clinical tests in China demonstrated that the Chinese species called Tu fu ling rhizome (Smilax glabra) is effective for treating syphilis in about 90 percent of acute cases and 50 percent of chronic cases (Bensky & Gamble, 1986).

Since Lyme disease is also caused by spirochete organisms, it may prove beneficial in the treatment of this disease as well. TCM doctors use Tu fu ling rhizome to treat joint pain, turbid urine and jaundice caused by heat and dampness. . . .

-------

Excerpts above from: "The One Earth Herbal Sourcebook" - (author: Tillotson, et.al)

Although this is not a book about lyme, you can read much more about herbs here:

Home: http://oneearthherbs.squarespace.com

================================

There is a six page chapter on Smilax in this book - you'd want to read all of that before using. Tiny doses are best at first as it can cause some rumbling in the belly and some sleepiness.

http://tinyurl.com/5vnsjg

Healing Lyme: Natural Healing And Prevention of Lyme Borreliosis And Its Coinfections - by Stephen Harrod Buhner

=====================

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

PubMed Search:

Smilax - 131 abstracts

Sarsaparilla - 144 abstracts

Smilax glabra - 35

Smilax, syphilis - one

=============

Some of the more recent abstracts at PubMed indicate that Smilax may be helpful to lessen Diabetic Neuropathy and also act as a lead chelator.
-

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springshowers
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My doctor prescribes anit inflammatories for anytime I need them..

Weird thing. I find they do not work as well as naproxon or ibuprofen.

I do take them when i herx badly or feel huge inflamaation bouts.

You got to just be wise and not over do it. Thats my thoughts.

Meaning.. Not daily... As needed..

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Lymetoo
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I know that natural anti-inflammatories are good for Lyme, so it stands to reason that it's OK to take something if you're suffering.

You might look into mangosteen juice for pain relief. The good stuff can make you herx though!!

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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